3.0cGPA, 3.0sGPA, 3.2-3.3 SMP GPA - Before anyone comments on the SMP GPA, I'm asking if my "fix" or last option I have to fix the SMP GPA will work

[catcatcat45]

Before anyone comments on the SMP GPA, I'm asking if my "fix" or last option I have to fix the SMP GPA will work for the upcoming cycle

I have very low GPA's and a low SMP GPA (3.0cGPA, 3.0sGPA, 3.2-3.3 SMP GPA). I have a weak upward trend (last 60 of undergrad 3.5 and last term of SMP 3.6-3.7). MCAT July 30th and I'm going to submit in late August to every single DO school that I can.
I'm really losing hope because I see those with my GPAs and they get waitlisted even if they do get interviews. The one option I have before I try podiatry is to go back to my SMP in the fall and take some additional classes to try to boost my SMP GPA into the 3.4 (maybe 3.5) range. I would update schools about the potential 3.4-3.5 in December of next cycle. Would it be worth going back in the fall after my MCAT and spend $10k to boost it to a 3.4-3.5 and update schools that December or no? I fear that after December I'd be interviewing for a waitlist spot, because many schools will see the 3.3 first and then the 3.4-3.5 much later into the cycle. Has anyone with my stats gotten luck?

Also, last question but why is it that I hear a 3.3 SMP is lethal on SDN but on reddit there are others who have gotten in with that SMP GPA. They did have ridiculously high MCATs tho so there's that

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Also, last question but why is it that I hear a 3.3 SMP is lethal on SDN but on reddit there are others who have gotten in with that SMP GPA. They did have ridiculously high MCATs tho so there's that

You answered your own question here. An n=1 on Reddit doesn't do you any good unless you manage to get that level of MCAT. At this point I suppose you may as well give the MCAT a go given everything else you've done, but if you don't crush the MCAT then I think you're done.

Is "going back" to your SMP a thing? I was under the impression that SMPs are sort of a one-shot, high risk/high reward kind of scenario that lasts a year. So unless your program has some sort of unusual arrangement that I'm not aware of, then no I don't think your plan will work. And it definitely will not work for this upcoming cycle, since as you say the update will come way too late and honestly be too weak to be helpful.

 

[catcatcat45]

You answered your own question here. An n=1 on Reddit doesn't do you any good unless you manage to get that level of MCAT. At this point I suppose you may as well give the MCAT a go given everything else you've done, but if you don't crush the MCAT then I think you're done.

Is "going back" to your SMP a thing? I was under the impression that SMPs are sort of a one-shot, high risk/high reward kind of scenario that lasts a year. So unless your program has some sort of unusual arrangement that I'm not aware of, then no I don't think your plan will work. And it definitely will not work for this upcoming cycle, since as you say the update will come way too late and honestly be too weak to be helpful.

My SMP is a 2 year long program (PCOM masters of biomedical sciences). I think there are SMP's that are 1 year, but mine is 2. But I was under the impression that DO cycles run later, so December would still be too late for the update? Also, why would it be too weak if the term ends up going well? Is it because it will be super late?

 

[GoSpursGo]

My SMP is a 2 year long program. I think there are SMP's that are 1 year, but mine is 2. But I was under the impression that DO cycles run later, so December would still be too late for the update? Also, why would it be too weak if the term ends up going well? Is it because it will be super late?

Just in general I don't think that updates help that much unless it's a really substantive change. One term of grades isn't going to cause a program to see you radically differently.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

You say podiatry is your other backup. Why don't you ditch the SMP, and spend your 10K as a podiatry student? Why not apply now?

 

[catcatcat45]

You say podiatry is your other backup. Why don't you ditch the SMP, and spend your 10K as a podiatry student? Why not apply now?

Because if I have a shot a DO with a higher MCAT and maybe improving my SMP GPA then I’d like to take it. I really just wanna do primary care, but I’ll go into podiatry once I have zero chance left for DO

 

[Goro]

I'M not a believer in Magic thinking.

I think that you are clutching at straws, and not thinking clearly. My recommendation is that you go for Podiatry

 

[catcatcat45]

I'M not a believer in Magic thinking.

I think that you are clutching at straws, and not thinking clearly. My recommendation is that you go for Podiatry

I definitely understand, but I’d like to give at least 1 cycle a shot before I switch to podiatry. I’d have to take the MCAT anyways for podiatry. If I were able to pull off 3.4-3.5 in the fall and update schools that December, would that work in my favor or not make a difference for that cycle? The only reason I think I can is because my last term in the SMP was decent. I do plan on applying podiatry alongside DO

 

[Faha]

@Goro @Faha

It mainly depends on your MCAT score at this point. You need to score at least 500 and your chances may be limited to the newer schools (of which there are many).

 

[catcatcat45]

It mainly depends on your MCAT score at this point. You need to score at least 500 and your chances may be limited to the newer schools (of which there are many).

Thanks! But do you think it’s worth going back in the fall and taking an extra term to raise the SMP gpa to 3.4-3.5 range? Schools would be updated about these grades in December which is late. I don’t want to blow $10k if it won’t make a difference for the upcoming cycle

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks! But do you think it’s worth going back in the fall and taking an extra term to raise the SMP gpa to 3.4-3.5 range? Schools would be updated about these grades in December which is late. I don’t want to blow $10k if it won’t make a difference for the upcoming cycle

Focus on the MCAT.

 

[Faha]

Thanks! But do you think it’s worth going back in the fall and taking an extra term to raise the SMP gpa to 3.4-3.5 range? Schools would be updated about these grades in December which is late. I don’t want to blow $10k if it won’t make a difference for the upcoming cycle

Focus on doing well on the MCAT instead. Post your score here when available.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

That 3.2 SMP GPA is probably lethal.. but so is 3.0cGPA AND 3.0 sGPA, but if you get like a 510-512 I'd wager you'd still have a shot at a DO school somewhere.

 

[dial1010usa]

If you can bring your MCAT to 510 it will compensate your low gpa. Whatever is done you can't change but for sure you can work on MCAT. Work hard and study smart and kill it. Come back and let us know how did you do on MCAT.
All the best!!!

 

[tuf13119]

Before anyone comments on the SMP GPA, I'm asking if my "fix" or last option I have to fix the SMP GPA will work for the upcoming cycle

I have very low GPA's and a low SMP GPA (3.0cGPA, 3.0sGPA, 3.2-3.3 SMP GPA). I have a weak upward trend (last 60 of undergrad 3.5 and last term of SMP 3.6-3.7). MCAT July 30th and I'm going to submit in late August to every single DO school that I can.
I'm really losing hope because I see those with my GPAs and they get waitlisted even if they do get interviews. The one option I have before I try podiatry is to go back to my SMP in the fall and take some additional classes to try to boost my SMP GPA into the 3.4 (maybe 3.5) range. I would update schools about the potential 3.4-3.5 in December of next cycle. Would it be worth going back in the fall after my MCAT and spend $10k to boost it to a 3.4-3.5 and update schools that December or no? I fear that after December I'd be interviewing for a waitlist spot, because many schools will see the 3.3 first and then the 3.4-3.5 much later into the cycle. Has anyone with my stats gotten luck?

Also, last question but why is it that I hear a 3.3 SMP is lethal on SDN but on reddit there are others who have gotten in with that SMP GPA. They did have ridiculously high MCATs tho so there's that

As others have said, I think the MCAT is the biggest deciding factor for now regarding your situation. A high score can probably make you more competitive, but a low score will sink your application entirely. I would not rush on taking the MCAT and I would focus on trying to score as high as possible (>505 preferably).

I'm a little confused on the timeline, but did you finish your 1st year in the PCOM BMS program and then take a gap year to take the MCAT? Since you are a PCOM BMS student, you might possibly have the guaranteed interview if you perform well on the MCAT (>500) and have a SMP GPA >3.3. However, I wouldn't necessarily bank on this because it relies on you doing well on the MCAT And getting a >3.3 GPA in the program. The GPA can be bumped up in the 2nd year of the program, but I would worry more about what your MCAT score is first before paying for another school year.

 

[catcatcat45]

As others have said, I think the MCAT is the biggest deciding factor for now regarding your situation. A high score can probably make you more competitive, but a low score will sink your application entirely. I would not rush on taking the MCAT and I would focus on trying to score as high as possible (>505 preferably).

I'm a little confused on the timeline, but did you finish your 1st year in the PCOM BMS program and then take a gap year to take the MCAT? Since you are a PCOM BMS student, you might possibly have the guaranteed interview if you perform well on the MCAT (>500) and have a SMP GPA >3.3. However, I wouldn't necessarily bank on this because it relies on you doing well on the MCAT And getting a >3.3 GPA in the program. The GPA can be bumped up in the 2nd year of the program, but I would worry more about what your MCAT score is first before paying for another school year.

Is a 505 all I would need? Faha mentioned in another comment to aim for 500. I’m sorry but isn’t that awfully low, especially in my situation? I was planning on taking the exam when my practice scores were at least 512+. I’d rather avoid a second year of the SMP if a good MCAT score would save me. I just thought of doing a second year if it was absolutely necessary in order to have a chance at DO

I do not qualify for a linkage because I withdrew from a course my first term when I tried to take the MCAT alongside doing the SMP. But at PCOM it’s a 3.0 in the program and a 500 that would give you a guarantee interview. A 3.3 is for a conditional acceptance.
Sorry for all the edits. Just wanted to make sure I was making sense

 

[tuf13119]

Is a 505 all I would need? Faha mentioned in another comment to aim for 500. I’m sorry but isn’t that awfully low, especially in my situation? I was planning on taking the exam when my practice scores were at least 512+. I’d rather avoid a second year of the SMP if a good MCAT score would save me. I just thought of doing a second year if it was absolutely necessary in order to have a chance at DO

I do not qualify for a linkage because I withdrew from a course my first term when I tried to take the MCAT alongside doing the SMP. But at PCOM it’s a 3.0 in the program and a 500 that would give you a guarantee interview. A 3.3 is for a conditional acceptance.
Sorry for all the edits. Just wanted to make sure I was making sense

I'm not an expert, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. At this point, I think anything >505 would open some doors for new DO schools. A 500 isn't necessarily a safe score to aim for given your whole application. Obviously aim high to compensate for the GPA.

I agree that you probably shouldn't do the 2nd year in the program since the GPA increase would probably be very minimal. I was only suggesting the 2nd year initially because I thought that you could have potentially bumped your GPA above a 3.3 for the PCOM guaranteed interview. Again, this was before I noticed that you withdrew from a course in the program.

 

[KirksvilleKrunk]

Don't rule out anything until you take the MCAT.

 

[stinkycheeseperson]

why didnt you mcat and apply to DO first?

 

[catcatcat45]

why didnt you mcat and apply to DO first?

someone with my exact stats on reddit (without an SMP) and an upward trend of 3.6 in the last 40 credits had a 510 mcat and applied to every single DO school and got rejected at all/waitlisted at 3. They did an SMP got a 3.4 and had like 9 II this cycle
Just want to clarify: they applied first cycle without an SMP and then the second cycle as a re-app with a 3.4 SMP and got 9 II the second cycle.

 

[stinkycheeseperson]

ok but you dont know the rest of their app,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[catcatcat45]

ok but you dont know the rest of their app,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

True but I feel like stats are the most important. They had a DO LOR which means some osteopathic exposure. Idk I felt like their app was more competitive than mine at the time

 

[Butters Stotch]

Had to comment just to make sure good advice is being given to any premeds in this position. I had worse stats and had 10 DO interviews (DO schools really care about your entire app and not just stats and really need to sell yourself). Also if you can’t get an acceptance with 9 interviews, your application is not the problem it’s your interview skills. Good luck and feel free to reach out.

 

[catcatcat45]

Had to comment just to make sure good advice is being given to any premeds in this position. I had worse stats and had 10 DO interviews (DO schools really care about your entire app and not just stats and really need to sell yourself). Also if you can’t get an acceptance with 9 interviews, your application is not the problem it’s your interview skills. Good luck and feel free to reach out.

Thank you for commenting!! I appreciate it. If you don’t mind me asking what were your stats/URM or ORM? I keep seeing on SDN that anything less than a 3.4 SMP is completely lethal to your app. Was your SMP GPA also lower than mine?

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

Thank you for commenting!! I appreciate it. If you don’t mind me asking what were your stats/URM or ORM? I keep seeing on SDN that anything less than a 3.4 SMP is completely lethal to your app. Was your SMP GPA also lower than mine?

Lethal is an overstatement. I got in with under a 3.2 in my SMP.

 

[Butters Stotch]

ORM undergrad gpa 2.6, masters gpa 3.9 overall gpa ~3.1 and 505 mcat. Mad clinical experience was probably the best part of my application and just really selling my self. Also can’t really comment on what qualifies as lethal/non lethal SmP.

 

[catcatcat45]

Lethal is an overstatement. I got in with under a 3.2 in my SMP.

Omg why does everyone say “lethal” then? I’ve seen so many low SMP gpa students get told to switch careers on this website including myself.
Do you mind sharing your stats (sGPA, SMP GPA, MCAT, ORM/URM)? Did you apply broadly or get in with a linkage?

 

[catcatcat45]

ORM undergrad gpa 2.6, masters gpa 3.9 overall gpa ~3.1 and 505 mcat. Mad clinical experience was probably the best part of my application and just really selling my self. Also can’t really comment on what qualifies as lethal/non lethal SmP.

Congrats! I think that 3.9 SMP gpa probably really helped you out as well

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

Omg why does everyone say “lethal” then? I’ve seen so many low SMP gpa students get told to switch careers on this website including myself.
Do you mind sharing your stats (sGPA, SMP GPA, MCAT, ORM/URM)? Did you apply broadly or get in with a linkage?

504, for undergrad sGPA 3.3, GPA 3.5. White male. No linkage, different school. I applied broadly, got 5 interviews.

 

[catcatcat45]

504, for undergrad sGPA 3.3, GPA 3.5. White male. No linkage, different school. I applied broadly, got 5 interviews.

Did they see your SMP gpa as well or were you doing an SMP in the middle of the cycle before grades came out

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

Did they see your SMP gpa as well or were you doing an SMP in the middle of the cycle before grades came out

SMP during the cycle, and updated them.

 

[catcatcat45]

SMP during the cycle, and updated them.

Thanks! Last question but did you get interviews after you updated? I plan on updating them as well in the fall when I retake a course but I’m not sure if it’d be too late cause it’ll be December

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

I forget when I got the invites. But 1 interview was in the fall and the other 4 were during the winter trimester. I got decisions before winter grades (which was my worst), the schools did have fall grades. Did not get off any waitlists.

 

[Suzukaze]

Was in a similar situation. 3.23/3.05 undergrad and 3.10 SMP when finishing the first year. Overloaded to get a 3.50 when applying and graduated with a 3.60 however. MCAT was 516. Ended up getting 4 interviews out of 40 apps, attended 2 and got 1 A. If you feel like you can raise your GPA to 3.5 or higher, and do well on MCAT, then I'd say go for it.

 

[catcatcat45]

Was in a similar situation. 3.23/3.05 undergrad and 3.10 SMP when finishing the first year. Overloaded to get a 3.50 when applying and graduated with a 3.60 however. MCAT was 516. Ended up getting 4 interviews out of 40 apps, attended 2 and got 1 A. If you feel like you can raise your GPA to 3.5 or higher, and do well on MCAT, then I'd say go for it.

Congratulations! If you don't mind me asking a few questions. So did you apply with a 3.1 SMP and in the middle of the app cycle you updated schools with the fall SMP grades bumping it to a 3.5? Did you get any II or rejections prior to updating, or were the only after you updated? Were the 40 schools you applied to all DO?

 

[Suzukaze]

Congratulations! If you don't mind me asking a few questions. So did you apply with a 3.1 SMP and in the middle of the app cycle you updated schools with the fall SMP grades bumping it to a 3.5? Did you get any II or rejections prior to updating, or were the only after you updated? Were the 40 schools you applied to all DO?

No, I applied with a 3.5. Then I finished and had a 3.6, so I updated schools and got two new IIs (one in Feb and one in Apr). It was half MD and half DO, but IIs all came from DOs.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

True but I feel like stats are the most important. They had a DO LOR which means some osteopathic exposure. Idk I felt like their app was more competitive than mine at the time

Well, hopefully this shows metrics aren't the most important thing.

 

[mediocrestudent97]

True but I feel like stats are the most important. They had a DO LOR which means some osteopathic exposure. Idk I felt like their app was more competitive than mine at the time

I had a 3.0 sGPA 3.3 cGpa (given a higher MCAT but not extremely high) and have had several MD acceptances this cycle. Stats are important but I really think the other parts of my application are what made me stand out. Only had one DO acceptance and silence from the other 14 I applied to

 

[catcatcat45]

I had a 3.0 sGPA 3.3 cGpa (given a higher MCAT but not extremely high) and have had several MD acceptances this cycle. Stats are important but I really think the other parts of my application are what made me stand out. Only had one DO acceptance and silence from the other 14 I applied to

Congrats! What was your MCAT? Are you URM/ORM

 

[catcatcat45]

Currently I am doing an SMP and should grad with a final mark around 3.2-3.4, but I have already gotten an acceptance this cycle. Will it impact my acceptance? The letter simply says to maintain a similar level of performance, but my cgpa is 3.5

Did med schools see your SMP grades? What was your SMP GPA that med schools saw during admissions

 

[mediocrestudent97]

Congrats! What was your MCAT? Are you URM/ORM

Thanks! I had a 517 and URM

 

[h23]

Some of the advice being given here really has me concerned tbh. A lot of anecdotal advice basically. Just because your grandmother's friend's daughter's cousin got into medical school with a 496 MCAT, sub 3.0 GPA and 3.1 SMP GPA doesn't mean that you will too. There isn't a magic stat that completely guarantees you an acceptance. I've seen plenty of people who had high MCATs and decent GPAs, only to not get a single acceptance. Some of them had bad interview skills, some of them sounded narcissistic in their secondary essays, and maybe others had other red flags. One person's experience doesn't mean that if you do everything that person did, you'll get an acceptance. Even in the middle of application season, if everything you've done is similar to a friend's application who just happened to get in, you could be dealing with different ADCOM members who might not like certain aspects of your app, while your friend got it off easy with more forgiving ADCOM members. You can't guarantee your acceptance just because someone else had similar stats than you. Do you realize how many people with 3.7 GPAs and high MCATs apply to medical school only to get rejected? When people here say that sub-3.3 SMP GPAs are lethal, we're referring to trends that we've seen in the past. Are there exceptions to the trends? Definitely. You'll definitely see them. But every single pre-med student out there always assumes that they're the exception, only to learn how cold reality can be. Rather than assuming that you'll be the exception, plan ahead and assume that you won't because chances are that you won't be. I'm not saying that you shouldn't apply, but be realistic with yourself and don't just assume that something good will happen to you because it happened to someone else. You are not that someone else, YOU ARE YOU. You don't have that person's app, you don't have their experiences, so work on making yourself the best applicant that YOU can be and be cognizant of the trends. Anecdotal advice like how people can get in with such and such GPA is just that. Take it with a grain of salt because you will find a lot more value when paying attention to the trends compared to people's personal stories. I'm being harsh because I legitimately hate this style of thinking. There is so much more to an app than you realize. Yes, stats paint a good portion of the picture, but we as a society need to stop assuming that other people's experiences and success means that we'll be successful too.

someone with my exact stats on reddit (without an SMP) and an upward trend of 3.6 in the last 40 credits had a 510 mcat and applied to every single DO school and got rejected at all/waitlisted at 3. They did an SMP got a 3.4 and had like 9 II this cycle
Just want to clarify: they applied first cycle without an SMP and then the second cycle as a re-app with a 3.4 SMP and got 9 II the second cycle.

Omg why does everyone say “lethal” then? I’ve seen so many low SMP gpa students get told to switch careers on this website including myself.
Do you mind sharing your stats (sGPA, SMP GPA, MCAT, ORM/URM)? Did you apply broadly or get in with a linkage?

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

Obviously higher numbers are better than lower numbers, and obviously the entire application matters. But this one "lethal" cutoff that has been talked about isn't "lethal" at a 3.3.

 

[h23]

All I will say that maybe a 3.3 is lethal and maybe it isn't. One situation where it worked out for one person isn't universal for everyone. The person who it worked out for was competing with different applicants than you are and the application cycle gets tougher every year. Plus there isn't a shortage of medical applicants, so a 3.3 looks less impressive when you're comparing it to the sea of students who have higher scores. If you want to spend the money on primaries and secondaries and maybe interviews in hopes that you'll get one (or more) acceptance(s) with that 3.3 GPA, then be my guest. Maybe you'll get lucky. Just remember that the conditions that the one person that you saw on reddit with a 3.3 are different from the conditions that you are going to experience. Not saying that it can't happen, but be realistic and don't have the highest expectations because this process can honestly be extremely demoralizing, especially when you base your supposed eventual success on another individual's. Wishing you the best of luck.

 

[catcatcat45]

I'm at PCOM too lol. You are stressing too much.

Stop asking these questions here and go talk to Dr. B.

You know very well who got in this year and what their stats are so you know "3.3" and "sub 500 MCAT's" are not "Lethal" because people are getting accepted from the biomed program with those stats. You also have to realize that PCOM does look at applications holistically so even if you have the grades and they don't think you'd be a good fit, they won't just accept you with a 3.5 and 510.

I think you're too focused on grades. If you can't interview properly, forget it.

Hey! Those people are getting in through the linkage which I don’t qualify for since I withdrew from a course. That’s why I’m a little worried but I understand where you’re coming from.

 

[_med21_e]

This is where it would benefit you to talk to Dr. B and not random people on this website who are going to give you hypotheticals.

People can still get interviewed EVEN after withdrawing from a course. If you attended the info sessions and the zoom calls with the DO students you would know that. There are current DO students who FAILED biomed courses and still got the acceptance. You just need to talk to the right people in the program.

So you are creating a situation for yourself when that situation may not even exist.

But I want to caution you that your interview and everything else about your app will matter as well. You seem to be focused on numbers and that will only get you so far in this process.

Yeah, agreed. There are students who failed multiple courses, much less 1, in the biomedical program, and are now DO students, across ALL three campuses. The biomedical program is very forgiving and gives out lots of chances. That is rare for a SMP to do so. PCOM is also the only DO school that still does grade replacements with your highest score, and that rule also applies to the biomeds.

 

[catcatcat45]

Yeah, agreed. There are students who failed multiple courses, much less 1, in the biomedical program, and are now DO students, across ALL three campuses. The biomedical program is very forgiving and gives out lots of chances. That is rare for a SMP to do so. PCOM is also the only DO school that still does grade replacements with your highest score, and that rule also applies to the biomeds.

Wait are you serious? I had no idea PCOM did grade replacement still. My GPA with grade replacement is significantly higher than my AACOMAS GPA. I wouldn’t have done an SMP had I known.
Regardless, thank you for your input! It’s good to know that I still have a chance

 

[_med21_e]

Yeah, agreed. There are students who failed multiple courses, much less 1, in the biomedical program, and are now DO students, across ALL three campuses. The biomedical program is very forgiving and gives out lots of chances. That is rare for a SMP to do so. PCOM is also the only DO school that still does grade replacements with your highest score, and that rule also applies to the biomeds.

Yup, it won't show on ACCOMAS though. I'm a biomed student as well, as when I spoke to my admissions counselor regarding my app, they repeated back to my stats, and I was like wait... that doesn't sound right, my sGPA isn't that high? Turns out, and this is on their FAQ on their website, PCOM still abides by grade replacements. Director even confirmed to my class that grade replacement applies to the master's program as well.

 

[catcatcat45]

Yup, it won't show on ACCOMAS though. I'm a biomed student as well, as when I spoke to my admissions counselor regarding my app, they repeated back to my stats, and I was like wait... that doesn't sound right, my sGPA isn't that high? Turns out, and this is on their FAQ on their website, PCOM still abides by grade replacements. Director even confirmed to my class that grade replacement applies to the master's program as well.

I’m gonna cry this is the best news ever. Thank you!!!!!!

 

[_med21_e]

Wow, I did not know that.

I agree that the biomed program is very fair. I have learned quite a bit so far too.

It's weird how we are all in the same class yet we are anonymous here lol.

There are multiple campuses haha, but what I do know is that despite the fact that there are different admission committees, the rules applies to all three.

Also, networking in the biomedical program is a HUGE thing, and at my campus, the faculty is super super super kind and heavily advocate for students.