2nd residency in plastics after ENT residency?

[ent1989]

Hi all,

I'm currently a 2nd year resident in Otolaryngology, and have been hearing about alumni of my program being very successful after doing a 2nd residency in plastics and then a fellowship in facial plastics. I'm wondering, if I did a 2nd residency in plastics after completing my residency in ENT, would I have to start from 2nd year (I.e. spend a full 5 years in the program)? Or is there any wriggle room to enter the program at a higher level? Anyone have any insight into the application and admissions process for ENTs matching into 2nd residencies in plastics?

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[Moose A Moose]

I thought most otolaryngology residencies had a component in facial plastics with the opportunity of fellowships to further specialize in that niche.

 

[ent1989]

That's correct; I'm talking about doing a second residency in "general plastics" (not just facial), to become double board certified in ENT and plastic surgery, enabling me to perform non-facial procedures as well

 

[ram006]

To be double boarded you need to complete two residencies. So, you'll need to finish ENT (5 years) complete an INDEPENDENT plastics residency (3 years - beginning at an equivalent level of an integrated PGY4) and then do 1 year for facial plastics for a grand total of 9 years of training.

 

[caffeinemia]

I know someone who did that... but I coulda sworn ENT = eyes, noses, and titties.

 

[caffeinemia]

To be double boarded you need to complete two residencies. So, you'll need to finish ENT (5 years) complete an INDEPENDENT plastics residency (3 years - beginning at an equivalent level of an integrated PGY4) and then do 1 year for facial plastics for a grand total of 9 years of training.

Back in the day, they had 2 year prs fellowships. That was sweet.

 

[ram006]

The really sweet programs were the combined 3+2 so you could get through in 5 years.

Length of training becomes a burden for reasons I didn't consider when I was 26. The financial realities of committing yourself to extra years of training become harder and harder to ignore. 3-4 years ends up being around 1 million in lost opportunity cost.

 

[ctusfinest]

After doing an ENT residency and a full PRS fellowship, I feel like the one year facial plastics fellowship would be entirely unnecessary. There isn't really anything that you would cover in that one year fellowship that you didn't see in your fellowship. Additionally, most PRS fellowships include some time with a facial plastic surgeons.

I have worked with ENT -facial plastic surgeons but don't know much about the actual fellowship. Maybe someone who has been through it can comment?

 

[caffeinemia]

After doing an ENT residency and a full PRS fellowship, I feel like the one year facial plastics fellowship would be entirely unnecessary. There isn't really anything that you would cover in that one year fellowship that you didn't see in your fellowship. Additionally, most PRS fellowships include some time with a facial plastic surgeons.

I have worked with ENT -facial plastic surgeons but don't know much about the actual fellowship. Maybe someone who has been through it can comment?

I've spent some time with the ENT facial plastics, straight up ENT, straight up plastics, and even oculoplastics. I've done tons of rhinos, septums, septorhinos, and blephs with em all. Everyone's got their own take, broad exposure lets you pick and choose what you like. What you think is necessary and unnecessary is dependent on how comfortable you feel with a procedure. Not every program offers the same type of case mix/volume, thus you may find yourself very weak in some areas. As for me, I've probably done 20+ septo/rhino/septorhinos now in residency and will probably get 20-30 more, so mehhhh, aesthetic/facial fellowship unncessary.

 

[droliver]

Facial Plastic Surgery is not really a uniform experience. Some places it's almost exclusively a cosmetic experience, while at others it's a mix of general ENT duties + lot of trauma and free flaps. Generally speaking, the 3 yr plastics residency is going to be a lot more comprehensive experience from head to toe that would complement an ENT background. An ENT resident will feel comfortable with facial fractures and nasal procedures when they start, but everything else is like learning a new language especially if they didn't do a lot of microsurgery previously.

 

[caffeinemia]

Facial Plastic Surgery is not really a uniform experience. Some places it's almost exclusively a cosmetic experience, while at others it's a mix of general ENT duties + lot of trauma and free flaps. Generally speaking, the 3 yr plastics residency is going to be a lot more comprehensive experience from head to toe that would complement an ENT background. An ENT resident will feel comfortable with facial fractures and nasal procedures when they start, but everything else is like learning a new language especially if they didn't do a lot of microsurgery previously.

and lets be real, they can't sew anyhow =P