[2018-2019] Emergency Medicine Application Thread

[surely]

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/2017-Match-by-the-Numbers.pdf

This is from 2017 though.

Still not specialty-specific, either.

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[narcan't]

Any current residents/faculty have current input on the post-interview thank you letters? I haven't been sending them because most programs have specifically said "you can send them or not but they have no effect on the rank list" but now I'm hoping I don't kick myself for this later. I AM trying to keep in contact with my top programs to follow up on a contact I asked for, etc...but I haven't done specific thank you email/cards. Thoughts?

 

[narcan't]

The 49/19/10 numbers were not specialty specific. Its all US MD candidates that entered the match. Hard to say what the specialty specific numbers are, the NRMP doesn't disclose that.

It's definitely not 80% though for EM because only 78% of people applying to EM matched in EM last year (see below for data).

There were a total of 2265 matches into spots in EM in the 2018 match with 2901 total applicants. That means there was a 78% match rate (2265/2901) for people applying to EM.

1606 US MD 4th years matched in EM, a success rate of 87% (1606/1838).
For DOs in particular, 457 DOs matched in EM with a success rate of 82% (457/558)
For US IMGs, 77 matched in EM with a success rate of 46% (77/166)
For Non-US IMGs, 28 matched in EM with a success rate of 41% (28/68)

Eek!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Any current residents/faculty have current input on the post-interview thank you letters? I haven't been sending them because most programs have specifically said "you can send them or not but they have no effect on the rank list" but now I'm hoping I don't kick myself for this later. I AM trying to keep in contact with my top programs to follow up on a contact I asked for, etc...but I haven't done specific thank you email/cards. Thoughts?

They have zero effect on the rank process. Send them if you want, dont send them if you want.

 

[anon6134]

Anyone actually have any luck post letter of interest emails?

 

[Sunna12]

Anyone actually have any luck post letter of interest emails?

Yes, 2 out of 4. But that was several weeks ago...

 

[borderlineinCle]

Yes, 2 out of 4. But that was several weeks ago...

1 of 3


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[CajunMedic]

Anyone else feeling "meh" about their interviews? I feel like I've been pretty open and candid with my interviewers in terms of answering the questions they ask: (f.e. what you like to do for fun, why EM, why this program). But I am really not trying to "stand out." I feel like most of my interviews have just been a friendly, human, colloquial conversation - but nothing much more than that. Some are short interviews and some are long.

I've only been told good things about my application, so I'm not sure if I'm just looking too into all this lol.

Just had mine at the one attached to my TRI, I so wasn't ready for that. More thought-provoking questions than my other interviews this year. I feel like I blew it.

 

[Rekt]

Just had mine at the one attached to my TRI, I so wasn't ready for that. More thought-provoking questions than my other interviews this year. I feel like I blew it.

Any interview that relies on standardized/behavioral type questions (fun questions excluded) immediately drops to the bottom of my list. Tells me they can't have a normal conversation with someone. Not sure what programs gain by asking "Tell me about a time when..."

 

[borderlineinCle]

Any interview that relies on standardized/behavioral type questions (fun questions excluded) immediately drops to the bottom of my list. Tells me they can't have a normal conversation with someone. Not sure what programs gain by asking "Tell me about a time when..."

Eh, if it’s one question only I’m fine with that. Entire interview would be not very creative, true


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[CajunMedic]

Any interview that relies on standardized/behavioral type questions (fun questions excluded) immediately drops to the bottom of my list. Tells me they can't have a normal conversation with someone. Not sure what programs gain by asking "Tell me about a time when..."

They didn't use any of those, surprisingly enough. "How has your TRI year helped you become a better EM physician?", "How do you differentiate between how you used to treat patients as a paramedic vs. an intern?", "what leadership role do you see yourself playing in the program?" Totally caught me off guard.

 

[TinkleStinkle]

So.... What's the story with this week? Is it business as usual or is the entire week vacation from interview invitations and wait list movement???


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[Singhp03]

Going into Jan with 8 Interviews. Should I apply to prelim as back up, or IM, FM? I personally think 8 is a good number but I’ve heard differing opinions. Also, how do I approach programs for extra shifts with them in the month of Jan to put in some face time. Should I just email the AP asking for shifts?

 

[RainbowOtterz]

Going into Jan with 8 Interviews. Should I apply to prelim as back up, or IM, FM? I personally think 8 is a good number but I’ve heard differing opinions. Also, how do I approach programs for extra shifts with them in the month of Jan to put in some face time. Should I just email the AP asking for shifts?

Honestly man, it's too late to apply to a backup. If you don't then your option is the SOAP. No matter what 8 gives you pretty good chances.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

So.... What's the story with this week? Is it business as usual or is the entire week vacation from interview invitations and wait list movement???


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Unlikely there will be much happening this week. Program coordinators are likely off for the holidays. Therefore, nothing will happen.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Going into Jan with 8 Interviews. Should I apply to prelim as back up, or IM, FM? I personally think 8 is a good number but I’ve heard differing opinions. Also, how do I approach programs for extra shifts with them in the month of Jan to put in some face time. Should I just email the AP asking for shifts?

8 is a decent number. Probably too late for a backup unless you were already cultivating one and had talks with a few IM/FP programs your rotated at or something. Its more time to plan for the SOAP as a backup, but honestly, odds are you are going to be just fine with 8 interviews.

 

[boomshaketheroom]

Going into Jan with 8 Interviews. Should I apply to prelim as back up, or IM, FM? I personally think 8 is a good number but I’ve heard differing opinions. Also, how do I approach programs for extra shifts with them in the month of Jan to put in some face time. Should I just email the AP asking for shifts?

Not sure how helpful this will be unless you are doing it to get more info about the program. I can see it being WAYYYY easier to shoot yourself in the foot than help but who knows.

 

[unoso]

What's the utility of sending an LOI at this time to places I'm on the waitlist at? There are two NYC programs in particular that I would very very much like to interview at since my SO lives in the city but I haven't heard anything from them in a month or two.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

What's the utility of sending an LOI at this time to places I'm on the waitlist at? There are two NYC programs in particular that I would very very much like to interview at since my SO lives in the city but I haven't heard anything from them in a month or two.

It cant hurt at this point. And almost certainly will increase your chances of an interview. There are tons of cancelations in January. If a spot opens and they know you are interested for geographic reasons, and will actually show up for interview day, it will certainly increase your chances to interview no doubt.

 

[TinkleStinkle]

Does anybody know about the timing for the interview day at Kendall?


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[23333]

Trickle-down just started for me - got an invite from a program 2 days from the interview date. Happened right after a LOI

 

[L0rdHaveMRSA]

Any other DOs trying to decide whether or not to participate in the AOA match? I'm AF HPSP civilian deferred and sitting on 1 AOA interview and 9 ACGME. Top 2 programs are ACGME and I cannot decide what to do. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[8741empls]

Any other DOs trying to decide whether or not to participate in the AOA match? I'm AF HPSP civilian deferred and sitting on 1 AOA interview and 9 ACGME. Top 2 programs are ACGME and I cannot decide what to do. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Does the program have ACGME accreditation? If not, that is a hard pass for me. Is the class they match this year going to be a 3 or 4 year class? That may affect your decision.
Will you be disappointed if you match AOA? Will you wonder for the next 3-4 years (or more) what would have happened if you would have forgone the AOA match? If the gap between your top programs and the one AOA program is small, they have ACGME accreditation, and you would be happy to match there then I say sure, keep the extra rank. If the gap is large and you will be disappointed and feel that you gave up your chance to train where you really wanted to out of fear then I say 9 is a decent amount of ranks for success in the ACGME match (based on last years osteopathic applicants-90% chance).
I don’t envy your position. It’s hard to give up a spot.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Any other DOs trying to decide whether or not to participate in the AOA match? I'm AF HPSP civilian deferred and sitting on 1 AOA interview and 9 ACGME. Top 2 programs are ACGME and I cannot decide what to do. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I'd only consider it if that AOA program has ACGME accredidation and is still participating in the AOA match. Otherwise, I'd just go ACGME.

 

[CajunMedic]

Any other DOs trying to decide whether or not to participate in the AOA match? I'm AF HPSP civilian deferred and sitting on 1 AOA interview and 9 ACGME. Top 2 programs are ACGME and I cannot decide what to do. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

DO reapplicant from a TRI that just got ACGME TY accreditation. I had 1 surprise AOA interview during ACOEP at a program I rotated, interviewed and ultimately didn't match at last year. They're newly ACGME, but staying 4 year. Apparently, they've talked to my PD 3 times since then.
I only have 3 ACGME interviews, including my home program, with one of them being a program I interviewed at last year and have a decent shot at again this year.

I've been told to keep the AOA program if i'm OK with being there, I'm going to see how the post-interview communication goes with the ACGME programs before making a decision one way, or the other.


Semi-related question. Got a rejection right before Christmas that asked for a detailed LOI if we were still interested, haven't heard anything yet. Their last 2 available days on the spreadsheet are while I'm on vacation. At what point can I call them as ask if they're considering me so I can plan my vacation?

 

[JoTheGirl]

Any other DOs trying to decide whether or not to participate in the AOA match? I'm AF HPSP civilian deferred and sitting on 1 AOA interview and 9 ACGME. Top 2 programs are ACGME and I cannot decide what to do. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

If you have 9 ACGME interviews you are more likely to match than not. I wouldn't waste time with the one AOA program unless it was you top program (and you said it's not.)

 

[Rekt]

DO reapplicant from a TRI that just got ACGME TY accreditation. I had 1 surprise AOA interview during ACOEP at a program I rotated, interviewed and ultimately didn't match at last year. They're newly ACGME, but staying 4 year. Apparently, they've talked to my PD 3 times since then.
I only have 3 ACGME interviews, including my home program, with one of them being a program I interviewed at last year and have a decent shot at again this year.

I've been told to keep the AOA program if i'm OK with being there, I'm going to see how the post-interview communication goes with the ACGME programs before making a decision one way, or the other.


Semi-related question. Got a rejection right before Christmas that asked for a detailed LOI if we were still interested, haven't heard anything yet. Their last 2 available days on the spreadsheet are while I'm on vacation. At what point can I call them as ask if they're considering me so I can plan my vacation?

You need to rank the AOA place. You're in a much more difficult position. Also if I were you I'd do anything I could to keep my ROL anonymous. You're pretty easily identifiable and PDs have very fragile egos.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

. Also if I were you I'd do anything I could to keep my ROL anonymous. You're pretty easily identifiable and PDs have very fragile egos.

No they don't. And I'd venture to say less than 5% of PDs ever come to SDN, let alone read the ROL thread, then try to identify who is ranking who where. I'm not saying to post a ROL or not, or to do so after the rank lists are certified or not. But I will say that the idea that all the PDs are sitting around, lurking on SDN, waiting for ROLs to get posted, to then go and try and figure out who the anonymous posters are in order to exact revenge with their own lists is beyond ludicrous. Yes, one bad PD created a stir 2 years ago. It was ridiculous. But it is far from typical. The actual reality is, PDs at even the least competitive places have nearly a thousand applicants to choose from to interview. The programs are going to be fine, no matter what any individual student decides to do with their list. If a candidate doesn't want to match at your program, you have hundreds of others to consider, its just not a big deal. Are there students I'd love to train more than others based on their rotation? Absolutely. Do I begrudge them if they go elsewhere? Noooope. Ultimately, I'm happy every year with the people that I match, so getting upset about missing on a candidate is silly. I wish nearly every student that rotates with me if they ask about the match that I just want them to match, and I hope they match where they want to match. In the end, I hope students are interested in our program, but we will be just fine no matter what, so I want students to match where its best for them.

 

[Mat the coolcat]

No they don't. And I'd venture to say less than 5% of PDs ever come to SDN, let alone read the ROL thread, then try to identify who is ranking who where. I'm not saying to post a ROL or not, or to do so after the rank lists are certified or not. But I will say that the idea that all the PDs are sitting around, lurking on SDN, waiting for ROLs to get posted, to then go and try and figure out who the anonymous posters are in order to exact revenge with their own lists is beyond ludicrous. Yes, one bad PD created a stir 2 years ago. It was ridiculous. But it is far from typical. The actual reality is, PDs at even the least competitive places have nearly a thousand applicants to choose from to interview. The programs are going to be fine, no matter what any individual student decides to do with their list. If a candidate doesn't want to match at your program, you have hundreds of others to consider, its just not a big deal. Are there students I'd love to train more than others based on their rotation? Absolutely. Do I begrudge them if they go elsewhere? Noooope. Ultimately, I'm happy every year with the people that I match, so getting upset about missing on a candidate is silly. I wish nearly every student that rotates with me if they ask about the match that I just want them to match, and I hope they match where they want to match. In the end, I hope students are interested in our program, but we will be just fine no matter what, so I want students to match where its best for them.

Well said.

 

[Mat the coolcat]

In a similar light of PD's having a life and not having time for frivolities, how many PD's actually do social media searches on their prospective students?

Don't have anything incriminating on mine, but I am lookin darn good holding a solo cup in my new years pic...

In all seriousness, should we really change our Facebook names?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

In a similar light of PD's having a life and not having time for frivolities, how many PD's actually do social media searches on their prospective students?

Don't have anything incriminating on mine, but I am lookin darn good holding a solo cup in my new years pic...

In all seriousness, should we really change our Facebook names?

I have no idea. I would hope people arent. I mean I cant imagine EM folks being offended by pictures of someone drinking. If so, that would be one boring program to end up in. Now, I guess if your social media is filled with political posts, you could offend someone on the other side of the aisle. Still though, I cant imagine people taking the time to look at social media, let alone care what people have on there. If you are concerned make your profile private. But I doubt there are many stalking social media to get dirt on people before interviews.

 

[Apollyon]

I have no idea. I would hope people arent. I mean I cant imagine EM folks being offended by pictures of someone drinking. If so, that would be one boring program to end up in. Now, I guess if your social media is filled with political posts, you could offend someone on the other side of the aisle. Still though, I cant imagine people taking the time to look at social media, let alone care what people have on there. If you are concerned make your profile private. But I doubt there are many stalking social media to get dirt on people before interviews.

Haha, I'm drunk, you're working, we're both board certified. Everyone wins!

 

[LaceyMD]

In a similar light of PD's having a life and not having time for frivolities, how many PD's actually do social media searches on their prospective students?

Don't have anything incriminating on mine, but I am lookin darn good holding a solo cup in my new years pic...

In all seriousness, should we really change our Facebook names?

I've always thought the annual flood of social media name changes in anticipation of whatever upcoming application season (same thing happened right before med school applications) is ridiculous, for two reasons - one, if someone really truly wanted to find you, you haven't actually made it any harder (Google searches can still pull up old tags/posts under your previous name, and if you used the same email for ERAS and Facebook, you've made it even easier), and two, if you've got something on social media that you're seriously concerned would make a potential future employer not want to hire you, that's probably a good sign that you might want to take that particular picture or post down anyway.

I didn't change my Facebook name, and if anyone seriously wants to drop my rank list position because of the pictures of me out wine tasting, drinking a beer with friends, or visiting my nieces and nephews (because that's about all Facebook is these days), well then that's a program I probably don't want to train at anyway.

 

[Rekt]

I've always thought the annual flood of social media name changes in anticipation of whatever upcoming application season (same thing happened right before med school applications) is ridiculous, for two reasons - one, if someone really truly wanted to find you, you haven't actually made it any harder (Google searches can still pull up old tags/posts under your previous name, and if you used the same email for ERAS and Facebook, you've made it even easier), and two, if you've got something on social media that you're seriously concerned would make a potential future employer not want to hire you, that's probably a good sign that you might want to take that particular picture or post down anyway.

I didn't change my Facebook name, and if anyone seriously wants to drop my rank list position because of the pictures of me out wine tasting, drinking a beer with friends, or visiting my nieces and nephews (because that's about all Facebook is these days), well then that's a program I probably don't want to train at anyway.

90% of these idiots forget they can use your phone number and find your exact profile in two seconds anyway. I also didn't change my name. I agree with your sentiment, although I don't even have drinking pictures on mine. Just outdoors stuff and family.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Will the a programs position drop on a candidates rank list if faculty have pictures on their social media drinking with the residents? Asking for a friend...

 

[Mat the coolcat]

I have no idea. I would hope people arent. I mean I cant imagine EM folks being offended by pictures of someone drinking. If so, that would be one boring program to end up in. Now, I guess if your social media is filled with political posts, you could offend someone on the other side of the aisle. Still though, I cant imagine people taking the time to look at social media, let alone care what people have on there. If you are concerned make your profile private. But I doubt there are many stalking social media to get dirt on people before interviews.

Haha, I'm drunk, you're working, we're both board certified. Everyone wins!

Haha, this is good to hear. The majority of medical students change their facebook name for this reason during interview/application season...which seems a little paranoid to me at least...

 

[Mat the coolcat]

Will the a programs position drop on a candidates rank list if faculty have pictures on their social media drinking with the residents? Asking for a friend...

Even my mormon buddies wouldn't give two rips about a residency with social media including alcohol. We're all far too desperate to get into residency to sweat things like that. For the majority of us, it's an attractant anyway.

"Work/beer *cough* life balance right?"

 

[JoTheGirl]

Haha, this is good to hear. The majority of medical students change their facebook name for this reason during interview/application season...which seemed a little paranoid to me at least...

I don't understand this. Just change your privacy settings lol I have mine where you can see my profile pictures (and they're all pretty tame) and some various info like where I go to school, birth date, etc. Nothing damning. Even if I had a photo of myself drinking a beer I think if anything it makes me more relateable.

 

[nimbus]

CCF medicine program could have saved themself some grief if they did a social media search.

Med students, don't do stuff like this:

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Even if I had a photo of myself drinking a beer I think if anything it makes me more relateable.

EXACTLY! You are applying to EM, we'd expect pictures of people drinking a beer. Probably while jumping out of a plane. This isn't exactly a pretentious specialty.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

CCF medicine program could have saved themself some grief if they did a social media search.

Med students, don't do stuff like this:

Yeah. That's not the same as having pictures of being a normal person. She posted stuff about purposely giving Jewish patients the wrong medicines and said she hoped all the Jews would have their lives taken away. So yep, they did the right thing firing her.

Summary:
If you have a picture of you drinking a beer, you're ok.
If you have a picture of you drinking a beer at a Nazi rally with a swastika on your shirt, you're not going to be ok. (which is fine, because you are a dick).

 

[Mat the coolcat]

EXACTLY! You are applying to EM, we'd expect pictures of people drinking a beer. Probably while jumping out of a plane. This isn't exactly a pretentious specialty.

THIS

 

[eatkalteenbars]

I changed my name on FB to a stupid nickname my friends call me only because I thought it would be funny. The URL connected to my Facebook profile still contains my actual full name so it’s not like I’m actually affecting any social media search

 

[Osteoth]

IMO it's a good way to network with programs. It might help if you're trying to expand outside of your geographic region, or separate your app from the pile to get eyes on it. I think it would increase your likelihood of an interview, but "how much" is the question, and is it worth the expense? For the most part, you'll talk with a resident for a few minutes and write your name down to "prove" that you visited them. It would also help to follow up your visit with an email reaffirming your desire to interview at their program. Again, how much this helps is hard to quantify.

For what it's worth, a senior resident at one of my away rotations told me she got several interviews by attending the residency fair and expressing her interest in programs. She said it especially helps if you don't otherwise have a tie to the school or region. I'm trying to go west without any ties so I'm banking on showing up in person being more impactful than an email stating my interest. Also it's in San Diego and I hear it's quite the party so it's basically a mini vaca between finishing my last away and starting interview season.

Not convinced the residency fair makes that big of a difference. When I went to a regional SAEM conference / SAEM18 residency fair and asked if they would be at ACEP, many PDs said they get so many CVs and see so many applicants that it’s more beneficial for applicants to get a feel for a program than to make connections. If you have like an extra $500-$600 you can spend, go for it. If not, it’s honestly probably at the margins of beneficial w/ not much evidence and more unconfirmed anecdote. YMMV.

So what did you guys say when you got up to the booth? "My name is osteoth, I'm very interested in your program, please take me?"

 

[CardiacLion]

So what did you guys say when you got up to the booth? "My name is osteoth, I'm very interested in your program, please take me?"

The ACEP fair was crazy. Like literally a floodgate of students at every table, throwing their best awkward one liner pitches. Having that many people each clawing for the PD’s attention was kind of nerve wracking - and it makes you overthink your “sell.”

Looking back on it now, I’d just go up to the booths I’d be interested in, and say “Hi, my name is XYZ, I’d love to learn more about your program, I’ve heard great things all around.” Small talk is not easy, and some people are naturally good at it. But you can always default to the above and be pretty safe in terms of how you come across.

 

[Osteoth]

The ACEP fair was crazy. Like literally a floodgate of students at every table, throwing their best awkward one liner pitches. Having that many people each clawing for the PD’s attention was kind of nerve wracking - and it makes you overthink your “sell.”

Looking back on it now, I’d just go up to the booths I’d be interested in, and say “Hi, my name is XYZ, I’d love to learn more about your program, I’ve heard great things all around.” Small talk is not easy, and some people are naturally good at it. But you can always default to the above and be pretty safe in terms of how you come across.

Awesome, exactly what I was looking for.

The whole situation seems kind of odd to me, because based on what you're saying it seems as though it would be hard to make as many connections for interviews as people have been saying they did...

 

[JoTheGirl]

Awesome, exactly what I was looking for.

The whole situation seems kind of odd to me, because based on what you're saying it seems as though it would be hard to make as many connections for interviews as people have been saying they did...

Honestly I believe the residency fair is fairly low yield. I don’t believe anyone really makes significant impressions on the faculty there. However, it’s a good way to learn more about programs you’re interested in. As a DO student, it was valuable to find out which places aren’t DO friendly and that was the most I gained from it.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Honestly I believe the residency fair is fairly low yield. I don’t believe anyone really makes significant impressions on the faculty there. However, it’s a good way to learn more about programs you’re interested in. As a DO student, it was valuable to find out which places aren’t DO friendly and that was the most I gained from it.

I agree that the residency fair isn't that useful most of the time. Here's why. This is a big generalization, and realize that every individual case is different. But below is why I think its not useful most of the time.

The logic of the residency fair being useful is that you are going and trying to dig up interviews at places that may have overlooked your application. By stopping by a place you are interested in, they then put your name on a list to look at your application later. It basically gets you through their screening filters. So if you were screened out by geography for instance, maybe that program looks at your app later and interviews you, when they otherwise would have never looked at your app because of some geographic filter they have. That's the theory why its helpful in theory. However, the problem is, many of the applicants that feel the need to go to the fairs in the first place, have some major flaws on their application. They aren't getting many interviews. So they decide going to the fair may help them. The problem is, if you have some red flag on your app, say a DNR SLOE or some felony or some major honor code violation or multiple failed boards, etc. That can't be hidden. So you have a room full of people who can't get interviews because of some flaws on their app, trying to get around filters by stopping by booths, but in reality it wasn't the filters that were holding them back from interviews, but the red flags in the application in the first place. And you stopping by a booth for 5 minutes is not going to negate some major red flag in an application.

Take home point: The problem isn't necessarily that residency fairs aren't useful, its that they aren't useful for many that attend because a large portion of those attending are scrambling for interviews because they have a flawed application that will probably prevent them from matching anyways, and attending the fair doesn't change that.

Is that the case with everyone? No. We did interview some of the people who stopped by our booth at ACEP that we otherwise would have overlooked for geographic reasons. Some did meet our waitlist standards and did get waitlisted as well. But many of the candidates that we met just either had major red flags in their app or didn't meet our standards for interviews. All in all, very few interviews came out of the residency fair, and that seems like the case every year. You meet a small number of people who you may have overlooked, but the overwhelming number of people there aren't people you would have interviewed regardless. So all in all, its not all that useful for 90% or so of the people involved.

I do think it may be useful for more junior students just trying to find out about programs, where to rotate, etc. But again, that's a lot to ask of someone without income to attend IMO.

 

[Rekt]

Anyone else noticing people going on a ton of interviews? Finished out the season this week and met mutilple applicants hitting 16-21, non-couples matching. What has been your guys experience?

 

[Manny's Mangoes]

Anyone know how we can find out about second look days? Do they send emails with the dates?