200k extra for much better med school?

[deleted1133976]

I posted this on reddit and was advised to ask here, so I apologize if you've already seen this.

I'm a high school senior who was accepted to 2 BS/MD programs by god's grace: Rutgers 7 Year BA/MD vs. UPitt 8 Year BS/MD. After the 8 years, Rutgers would cost in total 200k less. For Pitt, I don't have to take the MCAT at all, and it's obviously a much better med school (15ish vs 75ish according to US News). I guess I can add that I hope to match into a vascular surgery integrated residency (obv this can change but it's what I want to do rn), and UPitt has had pretty good match rates with vascular surgery over the last few years. I'm also hoping to go into academic medicine, which I know generally looks at prestige a little bit more.

What should I do? How important is med school prestige for matching into a competitive specialty like vascular?

Any advice would be appreciated, and I really wanted the opinion of current medical students. Thank you!

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[TakotsuboOkazaki]

Two reputable MD schools?

200K less AND a year less of schooling?

No brainer in my book. That extra year, as a vascular surgeon, is another $350-500K.

 

[deleted1100659]

if it was like 50k or less difference then maybe it would be a more difficult choice. For 200k, I would not think twice about it.

at the end of the day still a reputable MD school, and you can make things happen with the right amount of hustle.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I think this is hard. Look at some of the recent threads dealing with prestige/ranking--while you can make good things happen from any US medical school, you definitely get a head start when you're at a better school. While I wouldn't make a huge deal about two schools that are roughly in the same tier, a 60ish spot difference is big enough that you probably would get tangible benefits at Pitt. Even if you don't want to do vascular surgery eventually, the name of your school may matter if you want to do some other competitive surgical subspecialty. This stuff just matters more than it used to, especially with the advent of USMLE step 1 being pass/fail (and thus you not having that opportunity to stand out if you're coming from a less prestigious school).

For these reasons, I honestly would lean towards Pitt. But it's not my $200k. You have two really good options here.

 

[Throwaway5129]

Go to UPitt, skip the MCAT (which is not as easy of hurdle as everyone makes it seem, it can be very challenging), and secure your residency spot. Especially with step 1 being pass/fail, the school's reputation matters alot more. If you want to do a competitive speciality, and want to maximize your chances, I would 100% go to Pitt.

 

[throwaway123342]

Rutgers is a pretty good school. Places kids in every single specialty. I would go there.

This is RWJ right?

 

[Redpancreas]

I posted this on reddit and was advised to ask here, so I apologize if you've already seen this.

I'm a high school senior who was accepted to 2 BS/MD programs by god's grace: Rutgers 7 Year BA/MD vs. UPitt 8 Year BS/MD. After the 8 years, Rutgers would cost in total 200k less. For Pitt, I don't have to take the MCAT at all, and it's obviously a much better med school (15ish vs 75ish according to US News). I guess I can add that I hope to match into a vascular surgery integrated residency (obv this can change but it's what I want to do rn), and UPitt has had pretty good match rates with vascular surgery over the last few years. I'm also hoping to go into academic medicine, which I know generally looks at prestige a little bit more.

What should I do? How important is med school prestige for matching into a competitive specialty like vascular?

Any advice would be appreciated, and I really wanted the opinion of current medical students. Thank you!

I may lean against the conventional thought here but I would go to Pitt.

1.) That 7 year track sounds appealing but it isn't worth it long term. 200K-500K (1 year salary) long term isn't worth rushing through anything.
2.) You can make things happen at any US MD, but Pitt will give you a leg up if you want anything competitive. If you want Integrated Vascular (direct entrance into Vascular Surgery residency as opposed to doing it as a fellowship after surgery), you're better off with Pitt.
3.) If you're set on becoming a FM/PCP/EM with 3 year residency and want to graduate early, FIRE, and be that kind of physician then go to Rutgers. It's a great deal too.

 

[operaman]

Some good points already made.

Does either have any advantage in terms of your options/timing/etc if you decide to leave medicine entirely? Would be wise to think through an exit plan if you get 2 years in and decide you’d rather go into tech or something non medical.

 

[pazzer2]

RWJ students do pretty well in the match. See for yourself

Match List

An extra 500K compounded at 7% over a 30 year time horizon results in $3.8M USD.

 

[anesussy]

While I don't agree with the people who 100% say it's not about the money, I think that reducing a decision like this to purely financial terms is drastically missing the mark.

Here are the questions I'd like to ask:

1) Do you have close family in either area that you are close to that you could go to for support?
2) Are you a minority?

If you don't have close family in Pittsburgh + are a minority, you should 100% go to Rutgers. Being non-white in the midwest leaves a lot to be desired. Don't force yourself to be miserable for 8 years because some stupid rankings told you to.

Alternatively, if you do have close family in Pitt (or it's neutral for both) and you are non-hispanic white, then I'd go to Pitt. I think rankings are overall pretty dumb, but in the case of a tie why not pick the higher ranked one? The extra year means nothing imo.

 

[LunaOri]

Which school would you pick if you were not going into medicine? Pitt is overall better academically, but you need to decide whether it is the right school for you.

 

[Browns99]

While I don't agree with the people who 100% say it's not about the money, I think that reducing a decision like this to purely financial terms is drastically missing the mark.

Here are the questions I'd like to ask:

1) Do you have close family in either area that you are close to that you could go to for support?
2) Are you a minority?

If you don't have close family in Pittsburgh + are a minority, you should 100% go to Rutgers. Being non-white in the midwest leaves a lot to be desired. Don't force yourself to be miserable for 8 years because some stupid rankings told you to.

Alternatively, if you do have close family in Pitt (or it's neutral for both) and you are non-hispanic white, then I'd go to Pitt. I think rankings are overall pretty dumb, but in the case of a tie why not pick the higher ranked one? The extra year means nothing imo.

Not sure I would classify Pittsburg as being in the "Midwest."

 

[anesussy]

Not sure I would classify Pittsburg as being in the "Midwest."

True dude it's practically coastal, like Cleveland, Detroit, and Buffalo

Fr tho midwest, rust belt, whatever you wanna call it. It's not diverse, that's for sure.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If you do wind up going to Pitt, make sure that you end up doing some competitive sub specialty.

Pitt would not give you a tangible difference in terms of opportunities outside of medicine (if you’re factoring that into your decision at all).

 

[j4pac]

Prestige is NOT an enormous factor from MD to MD program. There is literally no way that $200,000 makes up the difference. And it's not even $200,000...it's very likely over $400,000 when you consider that it will take a year longer to become a physician and the average physician out of residency will be making $200,000. If you do indeed become a vascular surgeon...it would be significantly higher. You can be looking at $500,000+ difference here.

 

[ChiDO]

This is not a hard choice at all. PM me in 15 years when you're out of residency and not having to pay the loan back.

7 years > 8 years
$0 > $200k

 

[OraclePL]

For small competitive specialties, you just want to go to a place that has a home program. As long as Rutgers has a good track record matching in vascular surgery and has their own home program you can work with, I would take the shorter route and cheaper option.

The extra cost is worth it if the cheaper medical school does not have a home residency program in your desired field. Even that is debatable because so many college students change their minds and specialty choice over the course of medical school.

 

[Dr Meow]

Congrats! Either way you're set.

 

[Phloston]

I posted this on reddit and was advised to ask here, so I apologize if you've already seen this.

I'm a high school senior who was accepted to 2 BS/MD programs by god's grace: Rutgers 7 Year BA/MD vs. UPitt 8 Year BS/MD. After the 8 years, Rutgers would cost in total 200k less. For Pitt, I don't have to take the MCAT at all, and it's obviously a much better med school (15ish vs 75ish according to US News). I guess I can add that I hope to match into a vascular surgery integrated residency (obv this can change but it's what I want to do rn), and UPitt has had pretty good match rates with vascular surgery over the last few years. I'm also hoping to go into academic medicine, which I know generally looks at prestige a little bit more.

What should I do? How important is med school prestige for matching into a competitive specialty like vascular?

Any advice would be appreciated, and I really wanted the opinion of current medical students. Thank you!

Unless you go to a school that's classically a name with big recognition (i.e., the Ivy's), no one really cares where you go to school. If you're concerned about which residencies you could get into, that will come down to your 2CK score and class rank more than anything.

My advice is to look more closely at the programs and locations and think about which program you actually like more, rather than getting bogged down in the cash and prestige.

 

[Browns99]

True dude it's practically coastal, like Cleveland, Detroit, and Buffalo

Fr tho midwest, rust belt, whatever you wanna call it. It's not diverse, that's for sure.

Pittsburg is plenty diverse...are you familiar with the city?

 

[Browns99]

Unless you go to a school that's classically a name with big recognition (i.e., the Ivy's), no one really cares where you go to school. If you're concerned about which residencies you could get into, that will come down to your 2CK score and class rank more than anything.

My advice is to look more closely at the programs and locations and think about which program you actually like more, rather than getting bogged down in the cash and prestige.

I will tend to disagree. For one, the ivys are not the only ones that matter when you talk about prestige( Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Umich, Pitt, NYU and the list goes on). Yes, Step 2, class rank are important, but with step1 going P/F, school "rank/prestige" is likely to be weighed even more. There's no question that it has always been considered in the past for residency, but will be more so now. That's not to say I am advocating that the poster takes on the huge loans, that's a decision he/she will need to make and plenty good advice has been mentioned here.

BTW, LORs in specialities are likely to be one of the most important parts of your app, more than class rank.

 

[deleted1100659]

Here is some more specific questions you should ask yourself:

What will my total cost of attendance be more the more expensive school?

What will my total debt burden be when I finish? (factoring in that loan interest accumulates during med school and in residency even when you're paying on them)

What is the lifestyle I want to live? How much will I be paying per year to meet that lifestyle? How much will my loans eat into my after tax salary?

Is your plan PLSF? If so, are there a lot of jobs that qualify for it in regards to that area of medicine?

Is your plan to pay off your debt eventually? Calculate a makeshift budget as an attending as a ballpark. Factor in your net income, not gross and subtract how much you will be paying in loans as well

basically you need to number crunch, and be real with yourself as to what you want out of life, how much that will cost, and what you will need to achieve that. Then you can determine is the long term potential cost worth potentially a boost that may or may not be significant.

 

[deleted1100659]

This is not a hard choice at all. PM me in 15 years when you're out of residency and not having to pay the loan back.

7 years > 8 years
$0 > $200k

for sure, given how much taxes already eats my salary, its painful paying each month on my loans. For me, it would be 48,000 a year of my salary for 10 years to pay off my loans, but now i switched to the PLSF route because I have around 4 years left of that and it makes for financial sense. Also worst case scenario, if that were to fall through id refinance, and in meantime i put the extra money into my investment accounts

 

[Redpancreas]

I think people are underselling the importance of medical school name and putting the cart (assuming great step scores at UPMC, etc.) before the horse. Also, the comparison here if you're set on vascular surgery is matching vs. not matching vascular surgery at all. UPMC will most likely get you vascular surgery if you can do OK on Step 2 and do some researching. I wouldn't roll the dice with Rutgers in the P/F Step 1 age. I caution you in comparing match lists and assuming you will be one of those 1-3 students who match Vasc-Int. from RWJ. For one, you won't be competing in those same conditions. Secondly, match lists are useless in comparing two schools match potential. Go to UPMC and don't look back.

 

[throwaway123342]

I think people are underselling the importance of medical school name and putting the cart (assuming great step scores at UPMC, etc.) before the horse. Also, the comparison here if you're set on vascular surgery is matching vs. not matching vascular surgery at all. UPMC will most likely get you vascular surgery if you can do OK on Step 2 and do some researching. I wouldn't roll the dice with Rutgers in the P/F Step 1 age. I caution you in comparing match lists and assuming you will be one of those 1-3 students who match Vasc-Int. from RWJ. For one, you won't be competing in those same conditions. Secondly, match lists are useless in comparing two schools match potential. Go to UPMC and don't look back.

The issue here is that Rutgers isnt a bad name... Look at their match lists.

 

[VincentAdultman]

True dude it's practically coastal, like Cleveland, Detroit, and Buffalo

Fr tho midwest, rust belt, whatever you wanna call it. It's not diverse, that's for sure.

Cleveland and Detroit aren’t diverse?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The real problem with the city is that it has lost more than half of its peak population (about 700 to 350)

As somebody who got into Pitt in a previous cycle (when tours were in person), I would just go there. I mean most cities in NJ aren’t necessarily desirable either

 

[Kardio]

Its funny to think that - if OP chooses Pitt, doesn't take the MCAT, and if the NBME makes the USMLE series full P/F - that the SAT will have been the only consequential exam they'll ever have taken.

Good luck OP. You've got great options. There's no wrong decision.

 

[deleted1100659]

It would be one thing if it was a MD vs a DO school, but Rutgers isn't a bad name by any means. Match lists in itself can be misleading- what if no one at Rutgers wanted to go the vascular surgery route for the past 3 years, whereas what if the other school had 20 people going for vascular surgery? You never know the interests of the class at the time.

To me I think its a really expensive gamble, you throw down quite a bit of money, off the the huge what if scenario that A. You do end up going that route and don't change your mind along the way and that B. It makes any significant difference at all

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Its funny to think that - if OP chooses Pitt, doesn't take the MCAT, and if the NBME makes the USMLE series full P/F - that the SAT will have been the only consequential exam they'll ever have taken.

Good luck OP. You've got great options. There's no wrong decision.

Probably the best differentiator in my experience as it’s the closest to a pure IQ test. I’ve tutored many people and never seen somebody raise a verbal score more than 100 points

 

[Kardio]

Probably the best differentiator in my experience as it’s the closest to a pure IQ test. I’ve tutored many people and never seen somebody raise a verbal score more than 100 points

Best differentiator of what?

 

[anesussy]

Probably the best differentiator in my experience as it’s the closest to a pure IQ test. I’ve tutored many people and never seen somebody raise a verbal score more than 100 points

tfw perfect sat verbal, perfect MCAT cars, average step scores 🥲

 

[deleted1133976]

Thank you all for your replies! After doing a more detailed calculation, Pitt will cost 320k more than Rutgers. Rutgers will be 3 years free undergrad plus 4 years of 40k per year med school. Pitt is 40k for 4 years undergrad and 80k for 4 years med school. My parents will pay 160k worth of schooling, so I’ll be walking out of njms with 0 debt. Also taking into account that Rutgers is 7 years long instead of Pitt’s 8, you can add another year's worth of attending physician salary in opportunity costs. In total, I’d be saving anywhere from 500-700k by choosing Rutgers. I think I'm leaning Rutgers. I'm going to have to definitely work harder to make up for my school name but it really is a huge sum of money and to walk out with 0 debt is a blessing based on what I've heard from other physicians. Also, since I'll have a lot of time these next three years, I'm going to try and spend significant time in research to get a little bit of a head start going into medical school. Again, thank you all for your thorough replies and advice!

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I think at 320k + year of attending salary it becomes much harder to recommend Pitt.

 

[Detailsmatter]

Thank you all for your replies! After doing a more detailed calculation, Pitt will cost 320k more than Rutgers. Rutgers will be 3 years free undergrad plus 4 years of 40k per year med school. Pitt is 40k for 4 years undergrad and 80k for 4 years med school. My parents will pay 160k worth of schooling, so I’ll be walking out of njms with 0 debt. Also taking into account that Rutgers is 7 years long instead of Pitt’s 8, you can add another year's worth of attending physician salary in opportunity costs. In total, I’d be saving anywhere from 500-700k by choosing Rutgers. I think I'm leaning Rutgers. I'm going to have to definitely work harder to make up for my school name but it really is a huge sum of money and to walk out with 0 debt is a blessing based on what I've heard from other physicians. Also, since I'll have a lot of time these next three years, I'm going to try and spend significant time in research to get a little bit of a head start going into medical school. Again, thank you all for your thorough replies and advice!

do you still get the free undergrad at Rutgers even if you choose to pursue something other than medicine?

 

[deleted1133976]

do you still get the free undergrad at Rutgers even if you choose to pursue something other than medicine?

yes, i do! or even if i apply out to a different medical school (which i'm not planning on doing)

 

[anonimo21]

yes, i do! or even if i apply out to a different medical school (which i'm not planning on doing)

from my personal experience about 15-25% people end up dropping out of the 7 year bc it can get stressful or be a faster transition than anticipated so j be sure that you can handle it. I would have sided with Pitt if it was only a 200k difference but now you’re saying 320k so now i’m not so sure.

 

[Redpancreas]

It would be one thing if it was a MD vs a DO school, but Rutgers isn't a bad name by any means. Match lists in itself can be misleading- what if no one at Rutgers wanted to go the vascular surgery route for the past 3 years, whereas what if the other school had 20 people going for vascular surgery? You never know the interests of the class at the time.

To me I think its a really expensive gamble, you throw down quite a bit of money, off the the huge what if scenario that A. You do end up going that route and don't change your mind along the way and that B. It makes any significant difference at all

Agreed with bolded. What if no one at Rutgers wanted to go the vascular surgery route for the past 3 years? I mean what if 20 did per year? It's hard to read the match lists without inside information you only got once you've committed. All the match list confirms is that you can go to Rutgers can get vascular surgery which is common sense. Rutgers is a solid US MD school. UPMC just has a notably better reputation somewhere up there in the upper/mid tier.

 

[anesussy]

from my personal experience about 15-25% people end up dropping out of the 7 year bc it can get stressful or be a faster transition than anticipated so j be sure that you can handle it. I would have sided with Pitt if it was only a 200k difference but now you’re saying 320k so now i’m not so sure.

Bruh that's high af

"Drop out" as in drop out of the program entirely? Or move to an 8-year program instead?

 

[anonimo21]

Bruh that's high af

"Drop out" as in drop out of the program entirely? Or move to an 8-year program instead?

Yeah drop out of the program, or more often then not people think they can do better and apply out of their program if it’s not prohibited. Many more (not included in the 15-25% i mentioned) do take a gap year which effectively makes it an 8 year program instead.

 

[MD2025-applicant]

Something else to consider is that UPitt has one of the best integrated vascular surgery programs in the country. If you for sure know you want to do vascular surgery, going there and making connections there will help you a lot.