2008 pathology applicants

[mlw03]

i won't try to post anything as mathematical or eloquent as what ya'll have said. i chose to buy, and for me it was reasoned on both money and a desire to own my home. i hope to come out OK financially down the road, but even if i break totally even compared to renting, for me it'll be worth it. as i type this a baby is crying on the other side of my bedroom wall and someone is thumping the bass in their car down the street. that's worth dealing with the lawn, shoveling snow, and other homeowner issues.

i also think, based on my experiences now versus those growing up in my parents' home, that there is a much greater sense of community among house neighbors than apartment neighbors. that has value too in making one's community a more pleasant place to live.

Oh man! Is that the situation you're in? I have definitely thought about the possibility that I may have to rent it out, but it will be unpleasant for exactly the reasons you say. Not to mention at this time of year I am particularly apprehensive about next year having to say "yes" when TurboTax asks me, "Do you own a rental property?" and whatever that would entail. Plus having incomes from 2 different states, oh gosh.

Regarding the snow, they do that too! They might do a half-assed job but to be honest the only reason I shovel my sidewalk all the time is the silent judgement of my neighbors if I don't do it. I actually think it gets slipperier (that can't be a word) after you scrape it down to a thin layer.

I'm sure there will be difficulties of renting as well, but now the things I used to complain about at my old apartment complex seem like not that big of a deal. Mice, you say? Free toys for my cats!



I'm glad to see what you wrote, it's good to hear I am not crazy or the only fool who didn't tap into the gold mine of owning.

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[Tiki]

I have never even considered buying. I just don't have the time and energy to put into a house. I know nothing about fixing things, and I don't have a lot of money saved up if something goes wrong. Besides, I'm buying a new car once I graduate, so I'd rather spend my money on that right now and pay down my credit card debt.

I'm excited about the apartment I'm going to be living at. They don't rent to undergraduates, so hopefully that will cut down on some of the noise. Most of the utilities are included, and if something goes wrong I can just call maintenance. Perfect for me. Maybe once I'm done with residency I'll start thinking about owning.

Good luck with selling, Sean.

 

[gbwillner]

This post is too simplistic in comparing renting vs. buying and I've seen a ton of people throw out this rationale when buying. Plenty of detailed examinations have been done on this and if you throw out the occasional speculative bubbles (like the one we're currently exiting), almost the entire economic advantage of buying over renting has to do with avoiding inflation. Those benefits are only realized if you are living in a place long term (better to pay a fixed mortgage than rent, which will increase over time).

But aren't you just throwing money away when you rent? Yes, but you also throw away a ton of money when you own (even if you factor in the tax advantages). Real estate commissions, closing costs, increased utility bills, maintenance (have fun writing a check to replace a furnace or a septic tank), homeowner's association fees, etc. Does your new place have a yard? Then you need to factor in the cost of a lawn mower, gas, landscaping, etc. Don't forget the added time costs of ownership. Is your new place bigger than an apartment? Are you going to fill it up with furniture you wouldn't have bought otherwise? The picture gets much uglier if your property actually drops in value before you're ready to sell.

Of course, for many people there are noneconomic advantages to owning your own place and I am certainly in favor of home ownership if the decision is well-researched and carefully deliberated. I've just seen a lot of people rush into the decision because everyone knows "owning is better than renting". Some of those people have received a rude wake up call now that they see how expensive owning can be.

Obviously you need to do the math before going into buying a house and finding the best way to make things work out. Can you end up upside-down? Of course, but not if you play your cards right. This means not buying a place bigger than you need, not buying a place you cannot afford, not EVER paying mortgage insurance. You also need to buy a place in a somewhat desireable location if you want to sell it at some point. You should always put down extra cash towards the PRINCIPAL of the hose. Only 3-4K of closing costs are non-refundable, and of course that depends on the number of points you buy.

Yes, banks front-load the interest (because they are bastards), but you don't have to let that sink you. If you know you will only be at a place short term, either take out a foolish "all interest" loan where essentailly your mortgage is so low that you are esentially paying cheap rent or go for a 15 year loan where off the bat you are paying off huge chunks of the principal.

Even better- don't sell your house. The best thing you can do is rent it out and let the rentors pay off the morgage for you. This is one of the safest investments of all time. The argument that owning housing "just beats inflation" ignores the fact that you can make a lot of money on real estate IF you know what you are doing.

Of course, when you do sell, you also get a nice bolus of cash that can go towards the sale of another place.

For me-
I bought my place in mid 2001 for $117,000 (yes, I know that it's more than 4-5yrs, but it would have worked out for me regardless)
I refinanced in 2003 in a 15Yr loan 100,000 (the rest was paid off by student loans and cash)- you can just pretend I paid this much. I put an additional $15K of student loans into the PRINCIPAL. My rate was like 5.25%, and my monthly payment on a 2/2.5 townhouse is $1080/month.
Currently, 70% of each mortgage payment goes towards principal. I still owe roughly $52,000 on the property. If I sold the property now, I could get roughly $170,000. Minus costs, I would still walk away with about $100,000. Instead I will rent it out for about 5 years until the market improves.

 

[Path or bust]

Obviously you need to do the math before going into buying a house and finding the best way to make things work out. Can you end up upside-down? Of course, but not if you play your cards right. This means not buying a place bigger than you need, not buying a place you cannot afford, not EVER paying mortgage insurance. You also need to buy a place in a somewhat desireable location if you want to sell it at some point. You should always put down extra cash towards the PRINCIPAL of the hose. Only 3-4K of closing costs are non-refundable, and of course that depends on the number of points you buy.

Yes, banks front-load the interest (because they are bastards), but you don't have to let that sink you. If you know you will only be at a place short term, either take out a foolish "all interest" loan where essentailly your mortgage is so low that you are esentially paying cheap rent or go for a 15 year loan where off the bat you are paying off huge chunks of the principal.

Even better- don't sell your house. The best thing you can do is rent it out and let the rentors pay off the morgage for you. This is one of the safest investments of all time. The argument that owning housing "just beats inflation" ignores the fact that you can make a lot of money on real estate IF you know what you are doing.

Of course, when you do sell, you also get a nice bolus of cash that can go towards the sale of another place.

For me-
I bought my place in mid 2001 for $117,000 (yes, I know that it's more than 4-5yrs, but it would have worked out for me regardless)
I refinanced in 2003 in a 15Yr loan 100,000 (the rest was paid off by student loans and cash)- you can just pretend I paid this much. I put an additional $15K of student loans into the PRINCIPAL. My rate was like 5.25%, and my monthly payment on a 2/2.5 townhouse is $1080/month.
Currently, 70% of each mortgage payment goes towards principal. I still owe roughly $52,000 on the property. If I sold the property now, I could get roughly $170,000. Minus costs, I would still walk away with about $100,000. Instead I will rent it out for about 5 years until the market improves.

I too went ahead and bought. However I went with a condo because, like Tiki, I am annoyed by routine maintenance stuff. It's about 1,400sq feet 2 bed/2 bath, garage, and pretty new (built in 2005). Because the market is horrible I got a 90,000 condo for 55,000. My mortgage lender is Bank of America so they will pay all the closing costs under the no mortgage fee program. I don't have to pay mortgage insurance since that is covered under the maintenance fees for the condo which is $100 a month (covers water, hazard insurance, trash, yard, snow, facilities). I've never seen maintenance fees so low and cover so much, the mortgage insurance alone would have cost me 89/month. So in the end the monthly payment for a 15 year fixed with a 5.2% interest is around 340/month. The nice thing about this is that all the interest is tax deductible and mortgage payments increase your credit score. I am considering just going ahead and paying the mortgage off entirely during residency and renting it out as an investment property using the rent coming in to maybe purchase other investment properties.

 

[docbiohazard]

Home ownership has risks and benefits... residency is a minimum 4 year commitment which is about the floor I'd consider for buying. Definitely try to get a 15 year note if you can, because you will be paying down the principle a lot faster.

This having been said, I can't imagine buying a place in most of the cities I interviewed in outside of Texas. Local housing prices are probably going to dictate your decision more than anything else.

Here's my numerical saga... bought house (circa 1914) in 2002 for $45k. Sink about $15k into it over 4 years for upgrades and needed TLC. Miss bubble where I could've sold house for ~$110k, wind up sitting on market for a year carrying two mortgage payments until house finally sells for $85k. 15 year note, so I still walked with somewhere in the nieghborhood of $40k. Carrying two notes and waiting out the market is NOT FUN. I could've rented it out, but the rental market in the area is somewhat sketch so I didn't really try.

Best part is, the guy who bought it didn't want to have it inspected... Never make that mistake.

BH

 

[deschutes]

Oh man! Is that the situation you're in? I have definitely thought about the possibility that I may have to rent it out, but it will be unpleasant for exactly the reasons you say.

I'll be marrying into the situation. The tenants who moved in weren't the best lot (late payments, smokers, three kids under the age of 5), but it was crunch-time. Guess we'll be de-smoking the place in a few years when it's time to sell. If we're not forced to evict them first.

Regarding the snow, they do that too! They might do a half-assed job but to be honest the only reason I shovel my sidewalk all the time is the silent judgement of my neighbors if I don't do it. I actually think it gets slipperier (that can't be a word) after you scrape it down to a thin layer.

When I had to shovel, I liked to get it when it was still light and fresh and fluffy (which as you probably know means shovelling while a blizzard was coming down around your ears and sticking to your glasses). Seemed like the only chance of getting down to the ground proper.

We'll shortly be moving to a new place to make room for the two of us. 925/month for a 2-BR upper duplex with 2-car garage and garage door opener in a quiet neighbourhood, all utilities included except electricity/phone/internet. AND the landlord would do grass and snow.

Downside is, it's a few blocks from a power plant (coal, not nuclear) and train depot. We looked at a lot of nicer places (single-family homes closer to downtown, closer to parks and swimming beaches etc.) but we figured we'd be rich and miserable for a year before moving again for fellowship

 

[CameronFrye]

Obviously you need to do the math before going into buying a house and finding the best way to make things work out. Can you end up upside-down? Of course, but not if you play your cards right. This means not buying a place bigger than you need, not buying a place you cannot afford, not EVER paying mortgage insurance. You also need to buy a place in a somewhat desireable location if you want to sell it at some point. You should always put down extra cash towards the PRINCIPAL of the hose. Only 3-4K of closing costs are non-refundable, and of course that depends on the number of points you buy.

Yes, banks front-load the interest (because they are bastards), but you don't have to let that sink you. If you know you will only be at a place short term, either take out a foolish "all interest" loan where essentailly your mortgage is so low that you are esentially paying cheap rent or go for a 15 year loan where off the bat you are paying off huge chunks of the principal.

Even better- don't sell your house. The best thing you can do is rent it out and let the rentors pay off the morgage for you. This is one of the safest investments of all time. The argument that owning housing "just beats inflation" ignores the fact that you can make a lot of money on real estate IF you know what you are doing.

Of course, when you do sell, you also get a nice bolus of cash that can go towards the sale of another place.

For me-
I bought my place in mid 2001 for $117,000 (yes, I know that it's more than 4-5yrs, but it would have worked out for me regardless)
I refinanced in 2003 in a 15Yr loan 100,000 (the rest was paid off by student loans and cash)- you can just pretend I paid this much. I put an additional $15K of student loans into the PRINCIPAL. My rate was like 5.25%, and my monthly payment on a 2/2.5 townhouse is $1080/month.
Currently, 70% of each mortgage payment goes towards principal. I still owe roughly $52,000 on the property. If I sold the property now, I could get roughly $170,000. Minus costs, I would still walk away with about $100,000. Instead I will rent it out for about 5 years until the market improves.

You also bought at a good time. Just like a bull market makes every day-trader look like a Peter Lynch, the now ending real estate market made a lot of people look like real estate kingpins. You sound fairly savvy, so I'm sure that you can continue to do fine, but a lot of the people who have made money in real estate recently were probably more lucky than good. There is certainly money to be made in real estate. I'm not arguing that, but I worry that the recent market has made it look easier than it historically has been. Also, as others have noted, renting out your unmovable property isn't some magical worry free cash flow. It can be a serious pain in the butt/time sink, especially if you live out of town.

Is real estate extremely risky if you stay within your means? No, probably not, but you should always be prepared to deal with the next black swan. Just ask the Japanese about real estate investing.

This also brings up a point that is often discussed over on the Diehards message boards. Each person needs to honestly determine their stomach and ability to take on risk, but they should also determine their need to take on risk. Most people on this message board are young enough to survive a bankruptcy, so they have the ability to take on huge amounts of risk (with the potential for huge returns), but do they really have the need to take on that risk?

 

[CameronFrye]

This having been said, I can't imagine buying a place in most of the cities I interviewed in outside of Texas. Local housing prices are probably going to dictate your decision more than anything else.

This is a very good point. Since starting residency, my rent has run 400-500 dollars a month. If I owned a place, my monthly payment would be over 2000 a month, an unfeasible amount for a single resident (my hospital pays residents very well, but they don't pay that well). If I lived in a cheaper area, I would've been much more tempted to buy. I'll just have to wait until I'm making the big attending bucks before I buy. Meanwhile, I live very comfortably and pump money into my investments and student loans.

 

[mlw03]

a few questions for Cameron:

who are the Diehards?

why the discrepancy between rental and buying markets in C'ville? if houses are going for over 200K, i'd have thought rent would be a bit higher than 450 per month for a 1-BR. in tampa it's tough to find a decent single family home under 200 even with the crappy market, and 1-BR apartments are at least 650-700 per month in decent areas. i would also add all real estate is local. college towns are much more isolated from real estate busts than other cities because there's always such a steady population base. someone can always buy a house near the grounds and make a profit renting it to undergrads. my roomie is going to gainesville (a city i think is incredibly similar to c'ville) and finding the market there surprisingly strong despite the relative bust down here in tampa.

 

[docbiohazard]

You also bought at a good time.

He also bought in Houston (or the greater Houston area), which in general has been much more affordable than other areas of the country, and which also didn't experience much of a bubble (with subsequent burst)... our mean housing values still increased in 2007.

My house in the Houston suburbs right now is about 2400 sqft, 4/2 with nice yard and 2 car garage. Built approx. 1970, but with brand new roof, HVAC, paint, carpet, refinished cabinets/counters and leveled foundation. Cost in the high 150s, <$100/sqft.

Yet another reason I chose to stay in the area for residency... it reminds me of LADoc's post about the "Texas baller"...

BH

 

[Sean2tall]

When I had to shovel, I liked to get it when it was still light and fresh and fluffy (which as you probably know means shovelling while a blizzard was coming down around your ears and sticking to your glasses). Seemed like the only chance of getting down to the ground proper.

We'll shortly be moving to a new place to make room for the two of us. 925/month for a 2-BR upper duplex with 2-car garage and garage door opener in a quiet neighbourhood, all utilities included except electricity/phone/internet. AND the landlord would do grass and snow.

Downside is, it's a few blocks from a power plant (coal, not nuclear) and train depot. We looked at a lot of nicer places (single-family homes closer to downtown, closer to parks and swimming beaches etc.) but we figured we'd be rich and miserable for a year before moving again for fellowship

It's a shame to say that I know exactly what you mean about the snow. Somehow the retired people around my neighborhood have managed to already shovel it by 6:00 AM, but if I wait until I get home from work, the chance of getting to the ground proper is gone.

Funny, the rental situation seems similar to mine. There is actually some sort of factory with a large smokestack just up the road, but oh well, it should be fun.

 

[gbwillner]

No one HAS buy buy a property. For that matter, no one has to moonlight, or ever ask for a raise in their job. But given the choice to do so implies that you can afford it. Given that choice, I would always buy. There is no question that paying rent, while making your life somewhat easier (I think this marginal at best- it certainly was never easier for me), is a huge expense (apprx 1/4-1/3 of your income). Owning a property can have expenses but it is an investment. The risk involved is minimal, ASSUMING YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. If I was moving somewhere for a transitional year, I agree that buying a house would be pretty dumb unless it was some sort of amazing opportunity.
General rules for not getting screwed:
1- don't buy a place without knowing the area VERY well. I usually avoid buying for 6 mo- 1yr. In Houston, most homeowners buy in the "condoland" area. Some profited, but most do not because the area is not very desirable. It's great though if you want to hold properties and rent them out since most lower-paid med center employees and students live there. Point is, most buy before setting foot in Houston because that's where students live, and only later realize it sucks. IMHO, this is primarily where the "risk" lies. You can speculate on a neighborhood, like West Philly around Penn. It can pay off or it can sink you. If you want a giant ranch house 30 min from the city, don't be surprised when you can't sell it, even at a discount.
2- Buy a property for LESS than it is worth. This takes patience and research. Even if you leave before you would like, you may still profit on such houses just for selling it at market value.
3- plan ahead. If you are single, why buy a 3BR house in the burbs? That's money down the toilet and it may be hard to make ends meet. Get a 1/2 BR condo. That's fine for a start-up family.
4- Condos are more student/resident friendly because all (or most) expenses are tied in to "maintenence fees" and you don't have to take care of these things yourself. BUT be careful because these fees can be deceptive and they must be incorportated into your monthly payment if you are to really afford the place. Another detractor is that condos do not apprecitate in value like houses do.
5- Don't buy unless you have great credit. That should go without saying. The Doctor loans you guys mention do in fact exist. They are pretty competitive in terms of rate, and they are 0% down with no mortgage insurance. The bank is betting that as a doctor you are good for it. Actually, at BofA these are available to 3rd year med students and up (or at least they were last time I checked).
6- some markets just suck and you probably shouldn't buy there if you won't stay a long time. For example, if you take out a 30yr note on a place and your monthly payment is $750, and you leave after 3 years and want to rent it out, you will fail miserably if comperable units rent for $600. This is especially true in condos with high maintenece fees!!!
7- if you do rent out your property, you have to charge more than your mortgage payment- you have to account for expenses and upkeep. I strongly recommend paying a company to manage the property for you. Take this into consideration while buying if you think you may rent the property.
8- A little principal goes a LONG way. Paying 10K in the forst year of a mortgage can save you 50K (or more) in the long run.

The best situation for buying are in markets where your mortgage is cheaper or equivilent to rent. This can be seen all over the midwest and south. That should be a no brainer. Other times you have to look for bargains. THese are available everywere if you know how to look. If I was in California no way do I buy, even if I had the money- there is a great chance my house will be worth significantly less in a few years, and rent is cheaper by far than the mortgage.

Good luck.

 

[docbiohazard]

Three other thoughts:

* Always think about resale, even when you're looking at a house to buy. Think about how easy it's going to be to sell it. Sometimes a house may be getting dogged because it needs cosmetic updating (fresh paint, new carpet), which can be taken care of fairly easily and at minimal expense. Beware things like a lack of closet space, or a 3/1 configuration. I have two friends trying to sell 3/1's right now. People who need/want 3 bedrooms almost invariably want 2 bathrooms. I would never buy a 3/1 unless you're a reasonable plumber and have an angle on installing a new bathroom while you're there. Cosmetic things are easily fixable. Strange layouts, lack of bathrooms and closets, etc, are not. Even if it doesn't bother you, think about how it might bother the public at large. Also consider the cost of the house with respect to the surrounding neighborhood. You don't want to be living in the most expensive house on the block. You'd rather buy something on the lower end and then improve on it - but don't make ridiculous improvements that wind up pricing it out of the neighborhood.

* Stick to very neutral paint colors. Trim carpentry is not as easy as it looks.

* Try not to get too emotionally attached in the home buying process. Its not your place until after closing and you have the keys in hand. A lot can go wrong between having a signed offer and closing.

BH

 

[gbwillner]

Three other thoughts:

* Try not to get too emotionally attached in the home buying process. Its not your place until after closing and you have the keys in hand. A lot can go wrong between having a signed offer and closing.

BH

Very important point. Don't show emotion to the seller. Same as when buying a car- you need to be prepared to walk away if the deal is not optimal.

 

[Sean2tall]

* Stick to very neutral paint colors. Trim carpentry is not as easy as it looks.

Especially crown moulding. It looks easy but is fairly tricky to make it look nice.

 

[gbwillner]

Especially crown moulding. It looks easy but is fairly tricky to make it look nice.

Not if you have a miter saw.

 

[Sean2tall]

Not if you have a miter saw.

I do have a mitre saw. And I know how to do it.

I'm just saying it's not as easy as it looks to people who don't know what they're doing.

I am done with this house talk, it's making me angry. If this thread ever moves on to something else, somebody let me know.

 

[raspberry009]

Three other thoughts:

* Always think about resale, even when you're looking at a house to buy. Think about how easy it's going to be to sell it. Sometimes a house may be getting dogged because it needs cosmetic updating (fresh paint, new carpet), which can be taken care of fairly easily and at minimal expense. Beware things like a lack of closet space, or a 3/1 configuration. I have two friends trying to sell 3/1's right now. People who need/want 3 bedrooms almost invariably want 2 bathrooms. I would never buy a 3/1 unless you're a reasonable plumber and have an angle on installing a new bathroom while you're there. Cosmetic things are easily fixable. Strange layouts, lack of bathrooms and closets, etc, are not. Even if it doesn't bother you, think about how it might bother the public at large. Also consider the cost of the house with respect to the surrounding neighborhood. You don't want to be living in the most expensive house on the block. You'd rather buy something on the lower end and then improve on it - but don't make ridiculous improvements that wind up pricing it out of the neighborhood.

* Stick to very neutral paint colors. Trim carpentry is not as easy as it looks.

* Try not to get too emotionally attached in the home buying process. Its not your place until after closing and you have the keys in hand. A lot can go wrong between having a signed offer and closing.

BH

well said! I too just recently bought a house...thank goodness my mother came along otherwise the realtor would have taken total advantage of me. She was in cahoots with the sellers realtor for sure. I still think I'm going to report her.

My lesson: Make sure you have good comparisons for houses sold recently! I also got suckered out of 10 grand.

 

[CameronFrye]

a few questions for Cameron:

who are the Diehards?

why the discrepancy between rental and buying markets in C'ville? if houses are going for over 200K, i'd have thought rent would be a bit higher than 450 per month for a 1-BR. in tampa it's tough to find a decent single family home under 200 even with the crappy market, and 1-BR apartments are at least 650-700 per month in decent areas. i would also add all real estate is local. college towns are much more isolated from real estate busts than other cities because there's always such a steady population base. someone can always buy a house near the grounds and make a profit renting it to undergrads. my roomie is going to gainesville (a city i think is incredibly similar to c'ville) and finding the market there surprisingly strong despite the relative bust down here in tampa.

mlw,

I've been out of town golfing and just saw your questions.

The Diehards refers to www.Diehards.org, a popular investing forum that originally formed on Morningstar.com back in 1998. It's a very civil message board full of investors who have been at least partially influenced by the philosophies of Jack Bogle (the founder of Vanguard).

1BR apt's in Cville basically range from 400 to 1200 per month depending on the location and the "luxury". I guess one big issue is that you can't really find properties that are equivalent to a 1BR apt. Therefore, you end up buying more than you may need (obviously, if you have a family and need to rent a 3BR place anyway, that is going to change the economics of the decision). The next issue is that there really has been a premium to pay for owning a place. In an efficient free market those discrepancies should disappear, but it doesn't necessarily happen quickly. Several apt complexes have been built over the past few years and were quickly converted to condos, b/c it was much more profitable to sell the places than rent them.

And yes, college towns are somewhat insulated from the volatility. Prices here aren't really dropping too much, but they have definitely leveled off. However, the big difference is seen in the amount of time a house stays on the market. Four years ago, a property could be on the market for less than 24 or 48 hours and be gone. Those same properties are staying on the market for weeks now.

PS: If you have the cajones to rent to undergrads, you are a much braver person than I.

 

[raspberry009]

I'm going nutz! I'm finishing off my last rotation of fourth year... I have three weeks left and I'm splitting at the seems! I actually told a resident "NO" twice this morning when he asked me to do skutwork on two patients that weren't mine. I hope I don't screw this up too bad to where I have to do it over again.

 

[clancy81]

I'm going nutz! I'm finishing off my last rotation of fourth year... I have three weeks left and I'm splitting at the seems! I actually told a resident "NO" twice this morning when he asked me to do skutwork on two patients that weren't mine. I hope I don't screw this up too bad to where I have to do it over again.

Tomorrow is my last day of rotations, thank god. I cannot take anymore either, even though I have finished the year with tons of fluff in my schedule. Hang in there, it's almost over.

 

[mlw03]

Tomorrow is my last day of rotations, thank god. I cannot take anymore either, even though I have finished the year with tons of fluff in my schedule. Hang in there, it's almost over.

i graduated on friday... oh yeah. mlw, MD. to my fellow members of the c/o 2008, enjoy the celebrations of graduation.

 

[Tiki]

Congrats mlw!!!

I wish I was done. I have two more weeks of rotations. I don't graduate until the 21st.

 

[mlw03]

Congrats mlw!!!

I wish I was done. I have two more weeks of rotations. I don't graduate until the 21st.

this is the advantage of starting in early august, which usf makes their MS1s do. now i get a nice long gap to move, take a little trip, and get settled in my new city before starting residency. 5/21 will be here very shortly.

 

[docbiohazard]

I am feverishly trying to finish up my research so I can have just a few weeks off... still, can't complain since I don't have to move!

Need to cram in some time to brew as well, though. Not to mention all my little home improvement projects that have stacked up.

BH

 

[Tiki]

this is the advantage of starting in early august, which usf makes their MS1s do. now i get a nice long gap to move, take a little trip, and get settled in my new city before starting residency. 5/21 will be here very shortly.

We started in early august as well. My school just likes to torture us.

 

[Path or bust]

We started in early august as well. My school just likes to torture us.

Well I think I have you both beat: my school started in JUNE (that's right, as a first year ---> end of may) and your regular vacation stuff. I've been done for some time now but they still feel there needs to be a 2 week gap until graduation (May 18th). I'm just sitting around, collecting dust per se.

 

[docbiohazard]

I'm taking Step 3 in two weeks, which is starting to drive me nuts because I haven't studied all that much...

BH

 

[raspberry009]

Congrats mlw!!!

I wish I was done. I have two more weeks of rotations. I don't graduate until the 21st.

I graduate on the 31st. *green with envy*

 

[Tiki]

It's coming, raspberry!

Tomorrow is my last day of medical school. Woohoo! Then I have an awards banquet tomorrow night, convocation on Tuesday, and I finally get my scrap of paper on Wednesday. Hallelujah!

 

[mlw03]

congrats to you guys finishing up. it's a great feeling. tomorrow i close on my house... yikes!

 

[docbiohazard]

I'm taking Step 3 tomorrow (and Saturday)...

Congrats on finishing to all... its a surreal feeling. I'm still trying to wrap my head around starting residency, now that its getting closer. Seems unreal.

BH

 

[Tiki]

YAY, I'm done with med school. Only path related stuff from now on!

Good luck on Step 3, DBH!

 

[ustmd2006]

Congrats on finishing med school Tiki! And to everyone else who recently graduated!

Good luck on Step 3 BH. Let us know how it goes. I'm currently preparing for it myself...although I don't feel very confident yet...Plan to take it some time in June before we start residency. Hopefully I'll be ready by then!

Anyone else having as much trouble finding a place to live as I am? I've read about all of you who are buying houses...wow! Congrats! It's difficult enought looking for an apartment! LOL!

 

[sylver]

I'm taking Step 3 tomorrow (and Saturday)...

Congrats on finishing to all... its a surreal feeling. I'm still trying to wrap my head around starting residency, now that its getting closer. Seems unreal.

BH

Just finished Step3 yesterday... bring a snack its a LOOOONG test, but the CSS part is fairly entertaining since it is interactive. Good luck!

 

[docbiohazard]

Well, glad that was over. I have to say, it was pretty similar to Step 3, but more management oriented, and slightly fewer zebras... There were some sections that I felt like I kicked butt on, and some where I felt like I got hosed. The day 2 questions seemed easier... maybe cause the blocks were shorter - I ran shorter on time though. The CCS questions are wacky. It is kind of fun because of the interactive part, until you can tell you're not doing something it wants you to do and your patient is languishing... only had one of those... anyway, just hoping I passed!!!

Now where's my beer??

Also, best thing all day - standing in line to check in this morning, the proctor asked me "So, Dr. Long, what kind of doctor are you..." and I said "Pathologist..." and she says, "What do you do? Does that mean you pathologically lie?" and I said, "No, we read all the biopsies, run all the clinical labs, the blood banks, do autopsies..." then, from the secondary school teacher behind me in line, "Oh, so you want to be a mortician??"

*Facepalm*

BH

 

[docbiohazard]

And I passed Step 3, so that's good... now I can relax!

DBH

 

[ustmd2006]

And I passed Step 3, so that's good... now I can relax!

DBH

Congrats DBH!

My step 3 will be on the 19th and 20th...not really sure if I'll be ready by then...arg! Been studying, but not like I have for the previous steps. And I'm just starting on the CCS stuff today. Just did the sample cases and everything keeps ending before I get to do all that I want...I guess I need more practice with the software. Anyway, any tips on how/what to study in these last couple of weeks?

 

[Psychopathology]

then, from the secondary school teacher behind me in line, "Oh, so you want to be a mortician??"

*Facepalm*

I've just totally given up trying to explain

Congrats on passing Step 3 !!!

 

[Tiki]

And I passed Step 3, so that's good... now I can relax!

DBH

Congrats!! That is awesome that you got it out of the way. I'm very jealous!

 

[docbiohazard]

My step 3 will be on the 19th and 20th...not really sure if I'll be ready by then...arg! Been studying, but not like I have for the previous steps. And I'm just starting on the CCS stuff today. Just did the sample cases and everything keeps ending before I get to do all that I want...I guess I need more practice with the software. Anyway, any tips on how/what to study in these last couple of weeks?

I didn't study more than a couple of weeks, really. I hit usmleworld hard (in tutorial mode), and averaged around 60%, and passed Step 3 just fine. I also just finished my MD in Dec and took Step 2 CK last June, so take that into account (and I did well on Step 2 CK). I crammed the CCS part of First Aid for Step 3 the night before the second day of the exam, and I did the demo scenarios.

Don't worry if they're ending before you do everything you want to do - in general if they're ending quickly that means you're doing a good job. If they're dragging on and on, your missing something or not doing something they want you to do.

In terms of all the multiple choice stuff, just hit up USMLEWorld practice. I found the Step 3 questions were either dead obvious or totally obfuscated, whereas in Step 2 I felt more middle of the road about everything... anyway, practice questions and the CCS demo + maybe reviewing some sample cases for common management strategies is about the best advice I can give. More bread and butter and fewer zebras on Step 3, but they're still around.

And thanks everyone else for the kind words. I think it is worth it to knock it out as soon as possible.

DBH

 

[docbiohazard]

So... anyone started orientation yet? Everybody moved and settled in?

I finally got my 6.1 surround sound setup wired, built my new computer, still working on some other chores I discovered while working on the wiring (outlet needs replacing, bathroom vent isn't vented to the outside, etc...)

DBH

 

[raspberry009]

still moving in!! I gotta tell ya, I'm sitting in fold-out chairs in both my green house and living room because I don't have enough furnature to fill my house (and no dough to buy any!). Haha. My naighbors are wonderful though.

Keep in touch.

 

[pathgrrl]

So... anyone started orientation yet? Everybody moved and settled in?

Orientation is over...they gave us the afternoon off to finish any personal business; I'm starting on autopsy for 2 months. PGY-1s, name your rotation -- how's it going?

 

[mlw03]

we haven't had any service work yet - department and hospital orientations. with friday being a holiday, it sounds like true service work will begin on monday, with wed and thurs being for some more departmental orientation type of stuff, with perhaps some time in the gross room to start learning some of the logistics.

 

[pathgrrl]

I have my cutproof gloves and I'm just waiting on a case....just enough time to update my avatar. I figured ee cumming's topless wife was probably not appropriate for a newly minted doc.

 

[mlw03]

I have my cutproof gloves and I'm just waiting on a case....just enough time to update my avatar. I figured ee cumming's topless wife was probably not appropriate for a newly minted doc.

sure it would be...

anyhoo, how are the new pgy1s doing? i got to gross as a resident for the first time today. not a bad experience - started with a nice, simple singleton placenta. we have to walk before we can run, right?

 

[KeratinPearls]

Currently on autopsy and small surgicals. However, they got me helping out on autopsies as well. Grossed placentas, appendix, gall bladder among other things. Will be starting on large surgicals next month.

 

[clancy81]

I'm starting on CP and spent the mornings this week in orientation and the afternoons in the chemistry lab. So far it is a lot of test approvals and returning calls to clinicians about various tests. It's very different than AP.

 

[schrute]

Tell me about it. Started on CP this month...it's nice to have a low-pressure rotation to start off with, but feel guilty compared to the ones who started on AP...plus, I would have rather saved chem for a post-autopsy rotation. Though it's nice to be able to unpack / settle in with no real stress.