2008 pathology applicants

[yaah]

So yaah, I take it you weren't swayed by the local invitation?

No, in the end I was not swayed. But I would have been happy with either place.

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[mlw03]

any thoughts from our veteran members about when, if it all, we'll get the heavy wooing from programs? i'd figure late january, but i also know it's very PD-dependent. i really wish PDs would telll their ranked to match applicants who they are. the same way we figure it can only help, perhaps some of them think similarly.

tiki - i definitely sympathize. location vs. program vs. reputation vs. fellowship opportunities. weighing all these factors is NOT an easy task.

 

[yaah]

There probably will not be a lot of heavy wooing. If anything, it may take the form of email "updates" and reminders that the program liked you and they hope you consider them, etc. Occasionally it is a phone call if the program is really pursuing you. But don't feel bad if it doesn't happen - there are many programs who don't do anything. I would think most would wait until they had completed their interviews, which could be this month for some, and early next month for others.

 

[gbwillner]

What are peoples' opinions about sending letters to your top 2 or 3...perhaps telling your #1 you're going to rank them #1, how strong you felt their program was, etc...

Other than Christmas cards and a few post-interview letters, I haven't received any offers for 2nd looks or subtle "keep us in mind" reminders...is that common or does it just depend on the program? Or maybe I just suck as a candidate...

I don't think you should hold your breath for "offers for 2nd looks". I'm going on 3- I already did one, and none of them "offered" 2nd looks to me. It was more of me asking a few more questions, and stating that I didn't think I got to see enough of the program/faculty/city, before they asked if I wanted to come back. One time I even told the program "Hey, I'll be back around your area and want to take another look if you don't mind" (not those exact words). And they said "sure".

 

[DarksideAllstar]

any thoughts from our veteran members about when, if it all, we'll get the heavy wooing from programs? i'd figure late january, but i also know it's very PD-dependent. i really wish PDs would telll their ranked to match applicants who they are. the same way we figure it can only help, perhaps some of them think similarly.

tiki - i definitely sympathize. location vs. program vs. reputation vs. fellowship opportunities. weighing all these factors is NOT an easy task.

The calls that I did get occurred from late December to mid-January. I got a letter in the middle of February from one program "expressing their interest in me" and that "I would be a good fit." I never got a call using the phrase "you are ranked to match." I didn't like taking calls because inevitably the conversation fell on "so where will you be ranking our program?" I was usually non-descript and would say "I am still sorting out my rank list, but I enjoyed my day at your program" or something similar. I wouldn't put much stock in any calls that you get-- even the ones that say you are "RTM." I only got one offer to come back and spend the day and that was made during my interview day.

 

[yaah]

I don't think you should hold your breath for "offers for 2nd looks". I'm going on 3- I already did one, and none of them "offered" 2nd looks to me. It was more of me asking a few more questions, and stating that I didn't think I got to see enough of the program/faculty/city, before they asked if I wanted to come back. One time I even told the program "Hey, I'll be back around your area and want to take another look if you don't mind" (not those exact words). And they said "sure".

Yeah, second looks aren't as important as you would think. It is more for your interest. The program has probably already completed their ranking of you, and while it is nice to show your interest and make more connections, this can likely be accomplished with a note that says, "your program is great and is my top choice."

As an example, we have one fairly overzealous attending who just takes it upon himself to invite people for second looks, as a matter of course, to try to convince them the program is for them. But the candidates he likes are not always going to be ranked that highly. We had one candidate last year who everyone thought was bizarre, but they came back for a second look because they thought it would make a difference. Not really. The program director isn't really going to say no if people want to come back for another visit and sit in on signouts and meet with more people.

 

[gbwillner]

There probably will not be a lot of heavy wooing. If anything, it may take the form of email "updates" and reminders that the program liked you and they hope you consider them, etc. Occasionally it is a phone call if the program is really pursuing you. But don't feel bad if it doesn't happen - there are many programs who don't do anything. I would think most would wait until they had completed their interviews, which could be this month for some, and early next month for others.

Some of the programs made a point of telling me specifically that they would NOT contact me, because they felt it was against the spirit of the Match (UW and UCLA did this). Other programs specifically told me that they WOULD be calling or sending me a letter sometime late January telling me about their intentions, because it WASN'T against the letter of the law of the Match.

 

[gbwillner]

Yeah, second looks aren't as important as you would think. It is more for your interest. The program has probably already completed their ranking of you, and while it is nice to show your interest and make more connections, this can likely be accomplished with a note that says, "your program is great and is my top choice."

As an example, we have one fairly overzealous attending who just takes it upon himself to invite people for second looks, as a matter of course, to try to convince them the program is for them. But the candidates he likes are not always going to be ranked that highly. We had one candidate last year who everyone thought was bizarre, but they came back for a second look because they thought it would make a difference. Not really. The program director isn't really going to say no if people want to come back for another visit and sit in on signouts and meet with more people.

While I agree with this, I also think (perhaps incorrectly) that a second look can serve as a way to test the waters to see (perhaps indirectly) how a program feels about you. If you ask for a second look, and the program director takes time to get back to you, or tells you to set up meetings with individual people in the program on your own, it may not mean much (or be a bad thing), but if they come up with a whole new schedule for you (including directors and chairmen), and show a lot of interest it could be a positive thing. My reasoning is that they probably would not spend a lot of time and resources on a candidate they did not think highly of.

 

[mlw03]

While I agree with this, I also think (perhaps incorrectly) that a second look can serve as a way to test the waters to see (perhaps indirectly) how a program feels about you. If you ask for a second look, and the program director takes time to get back to you, or tells you to set up meetings with individual people in the program on your own, it may not mean much (or be a bad thing), but if they come up with a whole new schedule for you (including directors and chairmen), and show a lot of interest it could be a positive thing. My reasoning is that they probably would not spend a lot of time and resources on a candidate they did not think highly of.

you may be right with this, but i think it's probably over-analysis. i agree with the sentiment that by now rank lists are close to set, and a second look simply isn't going to significantly affect where a candidate is placed on the rank list. i mean, has anyone ever heard of a second look being this organized and formal? i thought they were mostly just a day of hanging around/shadowing the resident(s) to see how their day is spent and how the residents interact with each other and the faculty.

 

[gbwillner]

you may be right with this, but i think it's probably over-analysis. i agree with the sentiment that by now rank lists are close to set, and a second look simply isn't going to significantly affect where a candidate is placed on the rank list. i mean, has anyone ever heard of a second look being this organized and formal? i thought they were mostly just a day of hanging around/shadowing the resident(s) to see how their day is spent and how the residents interact with each other and the faculty.

I'm definitely not banking on this to change my position on a rank list- I'm going on the second looks to see how I really feel about top programs, answer lingering questions, and use this information for how I rank them... But I would also like to know how serious they are about me before I spend a lot of time thinking about their program.

And most of the second looks have been pretty formal... I have time where I spend a few hours shadowing residents, but I also meet with more faculty, including directors and the chairman.

 

[yaah]

While I agree with this, I also think (perhaps incorrectly) that a second look can serve as a way to test the waters to see (perhaps indirectly) how a program feels about you. If you ask for a second look, and the program director takes time to get back to you, or tells you to set up meetings with individual people in the program on your own, it may not mean much (or be a bad thing), but if they come up with a whole new schedule for you (including directors and chairmen), and show a lot of interest it could be a positive thing. My reasoning is that they probably would not spend a lot of time and resources on a candidate they did not think highly of.

I think that's true. But like I said, it probably doesn't mean as much on their end as on yours. If it comes to that, usually they are trying to convince you to come, not the other way around. For many people, second looks are very important because they are trying to decide between different programs.

 

[docbiohazard]

I originally thought I'd do second looks, then decided against it, then got invited back to the one local top pick and decided almost for parity's sake I needed to revisit my out-of-state top pick. There are a couple of other programs where I feel like I could've met more residents, and the like, but ultimately I think I'm starting to settle down on a decision between two programs, and I'll visit them, and go from there.

The one invite I recieved to come back was from a program where they have decided to formalize a research track in the intervening months since i interviewed, so they want me to come back so they can sell me on this new track. Other than that, it's just offers to answer questions.

 

[schrute]

location vs. program vs. reputation vs. fellowship opportunities. weighing all these factors is NOT an easy task.

I feel your pain.
It seems there's an inverse relationship between the programs I like and location: the further away and less ideal the location, the more I liked it.
It's not sitting well with my wife right now...

 

[docbiohazard]

My wife has been particularly flexible in her willingness to move. At this point, I wish she'd just lay the hammer down and tell me I had to stay / move to a particular city just to make the decision process easier.

 

[clancy81]

I just finished my interviews yesterday and now am not even sure where to begin with my rank list. I too am having the location v. fit/reputation/ fellowships with a couple that I am not sure will be in my top 3 or lower. So far I have received a few generic post-interview letters/emails, but not 2nd look invitation or calls. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks.

 

[mlw03]

My wife has been particularly flexible in her willingness to move. At this point, I wish she'd just lay the hammer down and tell me I had to stay / move to a particular city just to make the decision process easier.

i don't have a wife and my dog is quite flexible in terms of where she's willing to let me move to. as you said, sometimes i envy the people who HAVE to be in a particular location because it at least narrows down the choices.

 

[CameronFrye]

I interviewed at six places.

-I received two "ranked to match" emails just before the applicant rank lists were due.
-Two other places sent me letters expressing interest. I believe those came around the beginning of January.
-The other two places specifically said that they would not contact me until after the match.

No phone calls for me.

 

[Tiki]

I'm not married, but that can make it hard to decide with regards to location as well. If I choose to go to a program that is in a smaller town, I wonder if I'll have the opportunity to meet people outside of medicine.

 

[Trenchcoat]

Just yesterday I got two invitations to dinners at programs. I'm doing a second look at one of these programs. The other I really have no interest in. Should I still go despite not being interested?

Also, I've notified program directors at two programs already that I wouldn't be ranking their programs. It's just common courtesy to all because it helps them make their list and helps all the other applicants.

Finally, does any one know for certain whether the number of seats a program shows on the NRMP website are the actual number of people they will take into their program this year?

 

[mlw03]

Finally, does any one know for certain whether the number of seats a program shows on the NRMP website are the actual number of people they will take into their program this year?

not necessarily - that's the number of people they're taking in the Match. so if they didn't sign anyone outside the Match, then yes. but if they did, then no.

 

[yaah]

Just yesterday I got two invitations to dinners at programs. I'm doing a second look at one of these programs. The other I really have no interest in. Should I still go despite not being interested?

Also, I've notified program directors at two programs already that I wouldn't be ranking their programs. It's just common courtesy to all because it helps them make their list and helps all the other applicants.

In regards to your first point, why would you go? They will not be offended if you don't go or can't go. They might be disappointed because they wanted you as a candidate, but if you're not interested they aren't really going to push the issue.

As far as notifying PDs about not ranking them, that to me sounds like a courteous thing to do. I don't know of many people who do that, though, as many people will end up ranking every place they interviewed, just to be on the safe side. Unless, of course, you would rather scramble than match there.

 

[oxygen]

I interviewed at six places.

-I received two "ranked to match" emails just before the applicant rank lists were due.
-Two other places sent me letters expressing interest. I believe those came around the beginning of January.
-The other two places specifically said that they would not contact me until after the match.

No phone calls for me.

Are you talking about last year? or this year? when applicant rank lists due date?

 

[docbiohazard]

Are you talking about last year? or this year? when applicant rank lists due date?

Must be last year, because program and applicant rank lists are due on the same day, Feburary 27th. From NRMP.org:

February 27, 2008

Late registration deadline
Rank order list certification deadline

Applicants and programs must certify their rank order lists by 9:00 PM eastern time. Staff will be available to answer your questions during the final deadline hours. CERTIFIED applicant and program rank order lists and any other information pertinent to the Match must be entered in the R3 System by this date and time.

 

[oxygen]

thanks Docbio.

I guess it would be last year too since it is kind of early to get such comments now, isn't it?

 

[mlw03]

cameron is a few years ahead of us, so i don't think his/her comments were relating to last year's Match.

 

[CameronFrye]

Are you talking about last year? or this year? when applicant rank lists due date?

Yeah, two years ago. Just wanted to throw out my experience.

 

[CameronFrye]

Must be last year, because program and applicant rank lists are due on the same day, Feburary 27th. From NRMP.org:

They may be due the same day, but most programs will have their rank lists finished up at least a couple weeks before the deadline.

 

[raspberry009]

I've noticed every program has its own way of ranking things. I don't think there is one recipe to works for every program. Each PD has thier own personality and has his/her own way of going about things. As far as "wooing," I really do have to chuckle to myself (I love that word). Programs that told me that they play fair and intend not to contact me after the interview have indeed contacted me and programs that said they will keep in touch have not. With programs that have contacted me saying they were really impressed, I really can't determine if they really mean it or if they are sending out the mail to all of their applicants. I have had programs tell me exactly where they are ranking me though without me asking. I really would like to share thoughts on who has gotten letters from where but I really don't think it should matter anyway... I just have to keep reminding myself, "be genuinely positive, and everything will turn out for the best." I just need to keep my perspective and not get bogged down in my insecurities of who likes me the most but at the same time be honest and humble...

In the end I came up with 3 different ranking lists: one for where I'd like to live and is close to family, one for which institution has the best tools for where I see myself heading, and one strickly on "the fame." Now somehow I need to mold these 3 lists together. Which I may end up just tossing a coin, which is not recommended, but why keep stressing?? There are so many good programs out there.

 

[docbiohazard]

In the end I came up with 3 different ranking lists: one for where I'd like to live and is close to family, one for which institution has the best tools for where I see myself heading, and one strickly on "the fame." Now somehow I need to mold these 3 lists together. Which I may end up just tossing a coin, which is not recommended, but why keep stressing?? There are so many good programs out there.

Can't remember if I posted this yet or not, but an attending I know recommended the "coin toss" method for making particularly difficult decisions between two choices on the rank list. What you do is assign one program heads, the other program tails, then flip the coin. If you see the result and are disappointed, it's supposed to indicate you actually prefer the other program. If you see the result and are excited, then there you go.

Not sure how well it would work, though, because I can think of my top two choices and think of things I would miss at either location. Hoping my second visit brings clarity.

Best of luck to all of us in the coming weeks. I hope some of you had MLK day off...

BH

 

[Sean2tall]

I've noticed every program has its own way of ranking things. I don't think there is one recipe to works for every program. Each PD has thier own personality and has his/her own way of going about things. As far as "wooing," I really do have to chuckle to myself (I love that word). Programs that told me that they play fair and intend not to contact me after the interview have indeed contacted me and programs that said they will keep in touch have not. With programs that have contacted me saying they were really impressed, I really can't determine if they really mean it or if they are sending out the mail to all of their applicants. I have had programs tell me exactly where they are ranking me though without me asking. I really would like to share thoughts on who has gotten letters from where but I really don't think it should matter anyway... I just have to keep reminding myself, "be genuinely positive, and everything will turn out for the best." I just need to keep my perspective and not get bogged down in my insecurities of who likes me the most but at the same time be honest and humble...

In the end I came up with 3 different ranking lists: one for where I'd like to live and is close to family, one for which institution has the best tools for where I see myself heading, and one strickly on "the fame." Now somehow I need to mold these 3 lists together. Which I may end up just tossing a coin, which is not recommended, but why keep stressing?? There are so many good programs out there.

Wow, I'm surprised that so many people say they have been contacted. Really the only two things I have gotten are: 1) BID saying "The NRMP requires us to send you a copy of the resident contract, here." and 2) Temple, my home school, saying, "We will not be offering any more interviews," which would seem like a rejection, had I not already interviewed.

Anyway, I hope it's different programs that people are getting all this feedback from, or else maybe I'm not going to match!

 

[Neddy]

any thoughts from our veteran members about when, if it all, we'll get the heavy wooing from programs?

I got a call from one of my interviewers during the Super Bowl last year. I told him I would be ranking his program "highly". I didn't.

 

[cmz]

I'm definitely not banking on this to change my position on a rank list- I'm going on the second looks to see how I really feel about top programs, answer lingering questions, and use this information for how I rank them... But I would also like to know how serious they are about me before I spend a lot of time thinking about their program.

And most of the second looks have been pretty formal... I have time where I spend a few hours shadowing residents, but I also meet with more faculty, including directors and the chairman.

Let's face the facts, Gabe... you're simply not going to match in pathology. I've already started my smear campaign against you at all the places you applied at.

Anywho... how goes the path interview trail now that you know what my agenda is?!

 

[gbwillner]

Let's face the facts, Gabe... you're simply not going to match in pathology. I've already started my smear campaign against you at all the places you applied at.

Anywho... how goes the path interview trail now that you know what my agenda is?!

Whazzup chuckie!!!!
PM me!

 

[docbiohazard]

I have to say, after finishing my first second visit, it has brought great clarity to my overall thought process regarding my rank list and chosing a program. I have one more second visit to go, and then I think I can rank with confidence. So I'm feeling better.

BH

 

[malchik]

I have to say, after finishing my first second visit, it has brought great clarity to my overall thought process regarding my rank list and chosing a program. I have one more second visit to go, and then I think I can rank with confidence. So I'm feeling better.

BH

What about the second visit brought clarity? Are any programs paying for it?

 

[mlw03]

glad to hear you're feeling more confident, docbio. like malchik, i'm curious what specifically about the second visit day is helping you to feel this way.

and malchik, if they paid for a second visit i'd be quite shocked.

 

[malchik]

glad to hear you're feeling more confident, docbio. like malchik, i'm curious what specifically about the second visit day is helping you to feel this way.

and malchik, if they paid for a second visit i'd be quite shocked.

Yea, I just remember one program saying to me "the second visit is on us" and now I can't remember who that was!

 

[docbiohazard]

Only place that offered to pay for a second visit hotel room was Penn, which also covered hotel during my interview. This particular second interview was a reasonable commute from my home, so no travel costs incurred, although there was an offer of a hotel room if I wanted (it was a long day + dinner).

Basically, I went back to a place locally that I had been impressed with in the beginning but then sort of faded into the background as I interviewed out of state. Going back reminded me of all the things that I liked about it, and I was able to directly compare it to places that I had liked later in the interview circuit. I also met more faculty whom I got more good vibes off of, found out that some of the concerns I had about certain parts of the curriculum had been revamped since October, etc. They're also formalizing a research-oriented track that nicely fits with my goals.

So it reminded me why I liked it in the first place, I got an even better feel for the culture and whats going on at the institution, and there's major plus sides on the personal life / family end of things related to not moving. I still have another second visit at an out of state program, and I think I'd be happy there too, but it lacks a research track and doesn't carry quite as many plusses on the personal life side (higher housing costs, relocation, etc)...

Anyway, I hope this answers your questions. I almost decided against doing second visits until I was invited back to this one. Now I'm glad I did.

BH

 

[docbiohazard]

Yea, I just remember one program saying to me "the second visit is on us" and now I can't remember who that was!

Including airfare? If any program paid for second visit airfare I'd be amazed...

BH

 

[gbwillner]

I got a call from one of my interviewers during the Super Bowl last year. I told him I would be ranking his program "highly". I didn't.

I just got an e-mail from a PD at a program that I wasn't going to rank very highly telling me how interested they were in me, etc.. I felt really guilty about it- Given that they took the effort to recruit me and all, and that I would likely keep them from telling someone else they were essentially "ranked to match".

I e-mailed him back and told him as much... probably dropping my rank in the program 1000%. It was hard to do, and the PD responded to me ASAP verrifying my "lack of enthusiasm" for his program... yikes. It was tough to do though. Anyone else do this or am I the only sap? I know it didn't benefit me any to do this, but I felt like I should respond to the initial e-mail. There's nothing less respectful than emailing someone and not hearing back from them.

 

[sylver]

... I would likely keep them from telling someone else they were essentially "ranked to match"....

That is definitely a nice thing you did but considering the fact that you weren't going to rank that prgm high, for all intents and purposes you weren't going take away a spot from someone on that list, so you are indirectly helping the other applicants unbeknownst to them

It is a tough thing to disappoint PDs especially the friendly ones who you know have spent alot of time considering you for their program. While I definitely think being straightforward and honest is the way to go, I guess leaving a few things vague yet positive can never hurt and it will prevent those instances where they have to confirm "lack of enthusiasm"... at least that is what I am planning on doing!

 

[malchik]

I just got an e-mail from a PD at a program that I wasn't going to rank very highly telling me how interested they were in me, etc.. I felt really guilty about it- Given that they took the effort to recruit me and all, and that I would likely keep them from telling someone else they were essentially "ranked to match".

I e-mailed him back and told him as much... probably dropping my rank in the program 1000%. It was hard to do, and the PD responded to me ASAP verrifying my "lack of enthusiasm" for his program... yikes. It was tough to do though. Anyone else do this or am I the only sap? I know it didn't benefit me any to do this, but I felt like I should respond to the initial e-mail. There's nothing less respectful than emailing someone and not hearing back from them.

This process is like high school dating all over again. The flirtation, the assumptions, the rules both written and unwritten. I don't see the point of these communications unless there are structural questions being asked/answered. I have had two programs ignore the rules and ask where I would be ranking them, and I decided that being vague is tantamount to telling them that they wouldn't be #1, so I said WTH and just answered honestly. It's annoying. Programs should just rank who they want in that order, and applicants should do the same. End of story, I don't see why programs think they have to know where they are being ranked.

 

[docbiohazard]

Most of the contacts I've recieved have been just to "see how I'm doing..." and "answer any questions I might have...", sometimes coupled with a general warm sentiment towards my coming to the program. In general, I'll thank them for calling/emailing, tell them I enjoyed my interview and am still making my decision, and I'll let them know if I have any questions. With my programs that I am strongly considering for my top pick, I've talked about my decision process more explicitly.

I'd really be happy almost everywhere that I interviewed, so I don't think it's deceptive. I haven't been asked anything inappropriate along the way, either.

BH

 

[gbwillner]

This process is like high school dating all over again. The flirtation, the assumptions, the rules both written and unwritten. I don't see the point of these communications unless there are structural questions being asked/answered. I have had two programs ignore the rules and ask where I would be ranking them, and I decided that being vague is tantamount to telling them that they wouldn't be #1, so I said WTH and just answered honestly. It's annoying. Programs should just rank who they want in that order, and applicants should do the same. End of story, I don't see why programs think they have to know where they are being ranked.

Maybe so, but it's really a game you HAVE to play. Only a handful of programs I visited explicitly told me they actually play by the rules. I was warned by MANY residents at the top programs I visited that I should tell my #1 that I was ranking them #1, or risk not matching there. I was also told by PDs from the same top places that they wanted to know how I felt about them... sometimes it almost sounded like a threat- like "we won't rank you to match unless you tell us that you are interested in us and will rank us first".

 

[docbiohazard]

Maybe so, but it's really a game you HAVE to play. Only a handful of programs I visited explicitly told me they actually play by the rules. I was warned by MANY residents at the top programs I visited that I should tell my #1 that I was ranking them #1, or risk not matching there. I was also told by PDs from the same top places that they wanted to know how I felt about them... sometimes it almost sounded like a threat- like "we won't rank you to match unless you tell us that you are interested in us and will rank us first".

It is funny how everyone knows how to talk just outside an actual violation. I've heard all of the things you mentioned above, including some even couched with "Without violating the rules of the match..."

It seems like so long as they don't ask you what you will rank them, and don't try to arrange some sort of "if you rank us #1 we'll rank you #1" scenario, they can volunteer any information they want, including expressing sentiments about wanting to know your intentions (but not, of course, your actual ROL number... heh)...

Funny system. I was joking with a fellow applicant - imagine if the system was like the NFL draft ("Yay! I'm a first round pick!") or something similar to college football recruiting ("Yay! A booster from my program is giving me a 'summer job'!")...

BH

 

[WiseMentor]

It is funny how everyone knows how to talk just outside an actual violation.

Just passing through, but thought it worth mentioning the following ideas to keep in mind (from previous days running a training program):

Programs want people who want them, so all other things being equal or comparable (grades, letters, institutions, publications, interviews), they would rather have someone they know is looking forward to working with them than someone who views it as the booby prize.

The consequence of that is, it is helpful to tell your first choice how you feel about them. If they aren't interested in you, it won't make a difference and you will get a polite reply (that is expected with email, but back in the day when it was done with paper and pen, responses usually were by phone if it was a great match). If they are equally interested in you, you will get a reassuring response ("we are looking forward to your joining us in July").

The important thing is to be honest and interact only with your top choice program this way. From the remove of administration now, looking across disciplines, it seems that this mating ritual takes on greater importance in fields with smaller training programs (fewer than 8 trainees per year). Possibly because the group dynamic is so much more important, possibly because top programs are going for the same small pool of applicants, possibly for other reasons.

None of this means that you need to tell someone that they are your pick. If you can't decide then let the match do the choosing. Remember, the computer system works to the applicant's advantage in finding you a home at the program highest on your list that has room for you -- but don't forget that the starting conditions for the match program are the rank order lists. So, what you say (or don't say) to programs can influence their list, just as what they said to you during interviews will have influenced your list. The system isn't perfect by any means and the important thing is to feel your way through to first decide what you want and then maximize your chance of getting it. That means, listing your ideal program at the top of the rank list and trying to make sure that you are as high up on the program's list as possible.

Remember as well, that (unfortunately) you may be happy or unhappy with your training experience but that it is only partially determined by where you are. Best of luck to all for optimizing satisfaction.

 

[Tiki]

Just popping in to say that I passed Step 2 CS!!!!!

Wooohooo!

I was a bit nervous, because alot of the spots are full, so if I had failed it, I wouldn't have been able to retake it till late May/early June.

 

[mlw03]

Just popping in to say that I passed Step 2 CS!!!!!

Wooohooo!

I was a bit nervous, because alot of the spots are full, so if I had failed it, I wouldn't have been able to retake it till late May/early June.

congrats, tiki. it's a nice weight off the shoulders, eh?

 

[Tiki]

congrats, tiki. it's a nice weight off the shoulders, eh?

Thanks! Huge weight!

I should have taken it back in July when I took CK. Thank goodness I don't have to worry about rescheduling that stupid test. Not to mention dishing out more money!

 

[schrute]

Ditto that. I feel sorry for the people that have to retake and can't get it scheduled until May...that test is the biggest waste of time and $.
And what the hell would you do differently the 2nd time around? Look more sincere?
Not to mention the mental frustration boring through your head that you have to spend a grand to take the thing over.