How to be a physician-pilot and get enough hours of experience in both (HPSP? Civilian?)

[nckorfor]

Hello,

I also am really keen on being a physician-pilot because I love aviation and medicine but have no idea how to do so. I am set on becoming a doctor first so I was thinking about joining the Navy on HPSP (I went through MEPS with them already but haven't signed anything) and then becoming a Naval Pilot as I do my 3-4 years of service. I am not sure if this is even possible, if the HPSP contract will work against me or afford the possibility to become a physician-pilot. Would it be better to go through the US Air Force? Would it be better with the civilian sector with a PPL then CPL? What is the age limit?

Ideally I'd like to save time by somehow training to be a pilot and getting jet flying hours while I am in medical school. I also have two gap years during which I have a full-time job but I can take classes to become a pilot at nighttime. This gives me a definite 6 years of time part-time to become a pilot and get hours (hoping for 1000-2000 or more to start my own flight company in the future) because I am not sure how beholden I will be to the Navy (or whichever branch I join) after medical school.

Would appreciate any insight! And I would love to speak to anyone who is doing it currently.

(I know some of you may say it is better to just focus on one career instead of both or that I cannot go to pilot school while in medical school but I intend to at the very least like to try!)

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[Princeton Medical Student]

As someone that has researched both tracks… it’s not impossible. There is a track for Navy physicians to get winged via a dual designator program but I would expect it to be highly competitive. This isn’t to discourage you but rather for you to understand the reality of facing the challenges of gettin into medical school, getting into HPSP, getting selected as a flight surgeon, passing through ODS, serving multiple tours, excelling at not only being a physician but a Naval officer to get accepted. With 79 graduates since the 1910s this isn’t exactly an easy feat. And to my knowledge they don’t continue to train and fly operational aircraft either but I may be wrong here.

Double threat: This flight surgeon is also a Navy-trained pilot

Navy flight surgeon and pilot Capt. Kris Belland, DO, MPH, recently became the first osteopathic physician to lead the Aerospace Medical Association.

thedo.osteopathic.org

My suggestion is to become a physician or a pilot. Do some soul searching and research websites like airwarriors which is the SDN equivalent of Navy flight. If you want to experience both, apply for OCS out of college and assuming you retire after 10 years go and become a doc. A Naval Aviator is nothing to scoff at in terms of an “EC”. If you want to simply fly, just use your doctor money to buy a cirrus (or be rich and buy an L39). A lot less of a headache.

TLR: Do your research. A lot of your questions are easily researchable. Make one of your passions a hobby, be it by buying a plane as a doctor, or by volunteering at your local first aid squad as a pilot.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Ideally I'd like to save time by somehow training to be a pilot and getting jet flying hours while I am in medical school. I also have two gap years during which I have a full-time job but I can take classes to become a pilot at nighttime.

This just isn’t realistic.

 

[mpp]

A couple of my opinions for what they are worth:

Join the Navy or Air Force because you want to serve in the military, not because you want to be a pilot. Research this well. It is a true commitment to serve in the military. Even more so than going into medicine. Your life will be more in their control than you realize.

On the civilian side it is possible to learn to become a pilot while in medical school. I did it. I went to medical school in a small town (Rochester, Minnesota) and so was just a short trip to the airport, very little air traffic, usually decent weather. So it wasn’t too difficult to get my hours in. I joined a local flying club that made the airplane rental reasonably affordable. But my flying days did not last long.

In residency the time commitment was way too much for me to fly regularly (I did neurosurgery residency in the time of lax work-hour restrictions so a 90-hr work week was a light week). So I gave up flying altogether. I have too many other hobbies I enjoy to dedicate enough time to flying to be safe and competent. There are a lot of physicians with private pilot licenses out there and I’ve known several who have died doing so. While general aviation is probably no more dangerous than riding a motorcycle or other risky activity, it seems when doctors do it the risk goes way up. Maybe just anecdotal but I seem to read about it all the time. Just google “doctor private pilot dies”. I still love aviation but I let the professionals do the piloting.

 

[AvsPearTree]

You need to set yourself reasonable expectations.

There is no program in the Navy that allows you to go to medical school while also training you to be fully qualified to fly jets. There is a reason that just flight school alone is two full years, this doesn't include the mountains of additional required training when you get to the fleet. Your best bet is to go to USU or apply for HPSP. Become a flight surgeon and they will give you basic flight training (which does not qualify you to fly). You have a lot of spare time currently as you said so start flight school now and get the hours you want, and im sure you could find some time while in school to fly as well, but good luck thinking you'll have any time to fly in residency.

I feels like you mention so casually "becoming a Naval Pilot as I do my 3-4 years of service." You need to research what the military actually entails,
first off, if you want to guarantee being a pilot, go Air Force since I believe they still have a large pilot deficit. When you commission there is in reality zero guarantee that you will be selected to become a pilot and there is also zero guarantee that you would make it through all of flight training. The needs of the Navy will outweigh your personal desires, then what happens? they send you right to the fleet either on a ship or a sub (and tack on a year for nuke school if they red slate you like that by forcing you to go subs).
Second, pilot obligated service is not 3-4 years, "The minimum service obligation of any member who successfully completes training in the armed forces as a pilot shall be 8 years, if the member is trained to fly fixed-wing jet aircraft, or 6 years, if the member is trained to fly any other type of aircraft."
The military in general wants pilots and they want to keep them around for numerous reasons, so expect full resistance from your command to ending your contract early, they will get every drop of blood that they can from you.

I have been in the Navy for several years now, and there is a reason that only recently I was able to start my pursuit of medical school. Your life in the Navy can be incredibly difficult but highly rewarding. You will most likely be away from home more often than when you are home, and your commitment is more of a commitment than you think (which is what i attribute to me balding even though no one in my family is bald lol). So plan accordingly as you soon will realize that you can't pursue two arduous fields of work while being in the military.

You need to do some soul searching now, it seems from your post you're already more interested in being a pilot.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

You need to set yourself reasonable expectations.

There is no program in the Navy that allows you to go to medical school while also training you to be fully qualified to fly jets. There is a reason that just flight school alone is two full years, this doesn't include the mountains of additional required training when you get to the fleet. Your best bet is to go to USU or apply for HPSP. Become a flight surgeon and they will give you basic flight training (which does not qualify you to fly). You have a lot of spare time currently as you said so start flight school now and get the hours you want, and im sure you could find some time while in school to fly as well, but good luck thinking you'll have any time to fly in residency.

I feels like you mention so casually "becoming a Naval Pilot as I do my 3-4 years of service." You need to research what the military actually entails,
first off, if you want to guarantee being a pilot, go Air Force since I believe they still have a large pilot deficit. When you commission there is in reality zero guarantee that you will be selected to become a pilot and there is also zero guarantee that you would make it through all of flight training. The needs of the Navy will outweigh your personal desires, then what happens? they send you right to the fleet either on a ship or a sub (and tack on a year for nuke school if they red slate you like that by forcing you to go subs).
Second, pilot obligated service is not 3-4 years, "The minimum service obligation of any member who successfully completes training in the armed forces as a pilot shall be 8 years, if the member is trained to fly fixed-wing jet aircraft, or 6 years, if the member is trained to fly any other type of aircraft."
The military in general wants pilots and they want to keep them around for numerous reasons, so expect full resistance from your command to ending your contract early, they will get every drop of blood that they can from you.

I have been in the Navy for several years now, and there is a reason that only recently I was able to start my pursuit of medical school. Your life in the Navy can be incredibly difficult but highly rewarding. You will most likely be away from home more often than when you are home, and your commitment is more of a commitment than you think (which is what i attribute to me balding even though no one in my family is bald lol). So plan accordingly as you soon will realize that you can't pursue two arduous fields of work while being in the military.

You need to do some soul searching now, it seems from your post you're already more interested in being a pilot.

As a note you definitely can apply to Navy OCS with “Pilot only” as your selection. Of course if you do ROTC or USNA you certainly can be placed with the needs of the Navy. You could still attrite from training due to lacking performance however.

 

[Konigstiger]

I was (still am, I guess) in a similar situation as you. For what it's worth, I ended up joining the Navy through HPSP.

The dual designator program seems extremely specialized and therefore competitive. I'm making this number up, but I would guess that probably like 90%+ of the dual designators are former military pilots who retired, went on to go to medical school, and then rejoined as a medical officer and qualified for dual designator because they wanted to fly again. It is very rare for a purely medical person with no military flight experience to qualify as a dual designator. I myself have tried reaching out to people in the military about this, but I haven't gotten much of a response back. It seems information about this program and its application process is pretty scarce, but I would assume you would first need to become a flight surgeon and serve at least one tour and then apply for the dual designator program. Naturally, this is a very long and drawn-out process with a low chance of success. I am mainly only familiar with the Navy's program, but I would guess the Air Force's is not too different. And from what I've heard from military pilots, if your goal is to fly with the military, it isn't that useful to get civilian flight training. I would not recommend spending time in medical school getting civilian flight training unless you really want to and have proven that you can handle it plus medical school studying.

Ultimately I chose Navy HPSP because the idea of flight surgery still appeals to me even if you technically aren't the pilot in command. You still get flight experience with military aircraft and you still deploy with the squadron, etc. In Air Force flight surgery I believe you only qualify as air crew and not as a pilot like in the Navy.

The 'safest' option is to become a military pilot first and then apply to medical school. Yes, you may not get selected as a pilot, but as someone who almost went through this process, believe me that the officer selection exam for the Navy and Air Force is much, much easier than the MCAT or any medical school exam. I didn't even do well on the MCAT but pretty much aced the officer exams. I'm fairly certain if I put pilot as my first choice, they would have given it to me or at least given me serious consideration.

 

[gyngyn]

There are a lot of physicians with private pilot licenses out there and I’ve known several who have died doing so. While general aviation is probably no more dangerous than riding a motorcycle or other risky activity, it seems when doctors do it the risk goes way up. Maybe just anecdotal but I seem to read about it all the time. Just google “doctor private pilot dies”. I still love aviation but I let the professionals do the piloting.

We don't call them "doctor's coffins" for nothing.