Clinical Psychology Lifestyle and Pros/Cons

[enantio1988]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the process of applying to medical school but lately have been having doubts. Maybe it's that I'm burned out and scared for the road ahead of me, but I would like to have people's opinions on the advantages of being a clinical psychologist versus a medical doctor. Clinical psych seems appealing to me because it's similar to medicine in that I can teach, do research, and practice in a healthcare setting. I also like the mind-body connection aspect and working with people to achieve their full potential, something that medicine seems to be lacking.

I'm pretty interested in doing child neuropsychiatry and dealing with autism/neurological disorders. I know that I can do this with an M.D., but I'm not sure the intense training would be worth it. The main thing that is bugging me is that I've heard these horror stories of internship and residency during medical school. How is internship/fellowship in clinical psychology like? Would you say that it's very tough to get tenure in an academic position? Is what people say about academia (the fighting, backstabbing, networking, competition) true in the clinical psych field? If so, is it moreso than in other fields or less? What other disadvantages or advantages would you say come with the clinical psychology profession?

For those who are clinical psychologists, what is your typical day like? Do you thoroughly enjoy your work, and do you have a good lifestyle? Any other pros/cons to the profession?

Thanks so much for your input! I am really confused right now. My apologies if these questions have been answered elsewhere already.

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[bvail]

Clinical psych aside, if you are interested in medicine but want that mind-body connection have you considered going the osteopathic route rather than the traditional MD?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Do you know the nuances of neuropsychiatry? It is actually a pretty niche field, so you'll want to talk to some neuropsychiatrists about it. I think aspects of it are very interesting, but day to day work may be different than what most people think.

 

[enantio1988]

Thanks for the input! Any other comments? I'm particularly interested in hearing more about the lifestyle and how hard the training (especially internship and fellowship) is in the clinical psychology field. Also, how difficult is it to obtain a tenure-track position in academia? Is the lifestyle conducive to raising a family, etc.? Thanks in advance!

 

[PsyDLICSW]

Thanks for the input! Any other comments? I'm particularly interested in hearing more about the lifestyle and how hard the training (especially internship and fellowship) is in the clinical psychology field. Also, how difficult is it to obtain a tenure-track position in academia? Is the lifestyle conducive to raising a family, etc.? Thanks in advance!

You mentioned horror stories about residency and internships in med school. Unfortunately, clinical psychology is not much better, if better at all. Our field considers our internship situation a "crisis" in that there are too many students and too few internships leaving some unable to graduate. Like medicine, clinical psychology bottlenecks the application pool by having very competitive standards. But clinical psychology bottlenecks also at the end with internship and like I mentioned before, some are unable to graduate or get licensed because of the internship situation. I currently work with children as a graduate student in clinical psychology in a PsyD program (university based) and what I do with children with autism is assess that they indeed have autism and then make recommendations on what services the child would benefit from (e.g. behavior modification). I currently don't do much direct care with autistic children. I suggest talking with a psychologist who works with children and a child neuropsychiatrist to see if what they do match your career goals.

Clinical psychology student lifestyle from my understanding is stressful and time consuming like medical school. So you will still be stressed out in grad school no matter what field you go into. Hope this helps.

 

[nitemagi]

While I agree with a lot of Jon's comment, I'd throw in that medicine, via the physical exam, call on a bit more integration of information than psychology. while the mental status exam and good psychotherapy takes awarenes of visual and auditory subtleties, the physical exam (such as a good abdominal exam, feeling cogwheeling, a neurologic exam) requires kinesthetic skills and integration all this information into a global picture, which isn't as developed in psychology training. Not that psychiatrists do that many abdominal exams

 

[2012PhD]

I think medical school is more straight forward. It is a scripted path. The graduate school path is shorter on average in medical school than in clinical pscyh. You don't need to create anything (e.g., research). Analytical skills are more important in grad school psych whereas memorization is more important in medical school. This probably equals out in terms of hours necessary to succeed. Internship and postdoc in general will be easier/more flexible time wise than a medical residency. Getting a quality internship and postdoc will be substantially more competitive than medical residencies. Graduate school at a funded phd program will be harder in terms of content in my opinion. Getting into a funded graduate program is more competitive than medical school. Professor positions at a medical school for a psychologist seem similar to physicians except I think it is easier for a physician to get a job where they want to be. Professor positions in a psychology department are a different ballgame (think more traditional academia) and much lower paying. Starting at this from the start, I think medical school is the more sure footed path. There are more potential pitfalls to a career in psychology.

I agree overall. I'd say on average there is more risk, income variablity, employment uncertainty and more competition for fewer spots in clinical psychology vs. medicine. MDs have more funding and are valued and respected in hospital settings. While medical school is a beast on its own, i also believe its more straightforward and you know that you can generally graduate in 4 years if you take X classes and pass. Clinical psychology programs will vary from about 5 to 7 years, and i've even seen people taking 8 to 9 years because of dissertation problems, not matching, and advisors leaving. These days there is no guarantee of an internship or post-doc hours to get licensed. In fact, the numbers are insane for every APA internship and more competitive than getting into Harvard in terms of numbers. Unfortunately, most internships have only 1-5 spots and they are being cut like crazy in this economy. This year, i'm even seeing that interns are getting "laid off" AFTER they start internship (look at what is happening in NY state). No resident would ever get laid off while on residency.

In terms of rigor and lifestyle. I'm nearing the end of my training in a clinical PhD that is funded. I routinely put in 60-70 hour weeks and so did my cohort. On internship, its not unusual for us to work 12 hour days and take reports home, especially in big city hospitals. These days funding is cut like crazy, even VA's are not hiring, and there are HUGE caseloads. Many psychologists in hospitals/clinics don't see pts. weekly. Aside from the hours, you are often dealing with crises and suicidal clients so it can be one of the most stressful jobs.

 

[enantio1988]

Hi everyone, thanks so much for the helpful responses. I have a better picture of the clinical psych field now.

 

[~Rana]

Hi everyone! I have a very similar concern.


I am a undergrad student majoring in psychology and I graduate this upcoming June. I originally planned to go for a clinical psychology PhD and become a child clinical psychologist. But deep down in inside I feel like I have always wanted to go to med school and become a pediatrician. I have always dreamed of becoming a doctor but I steered away from it because I was too afraid, after several circumstances I have been through in my life. I know that I would probably be better with the hard sciences (I've done well in anatomy and physiology before but horrible in biochemistry and histology) rather than with research in the clinical PhD but is it even an accurate assumption that the PhD is more research oriented and to what extent? I am having the hardest time making this decision because:

1) I have not taken the required coursework or the MCAT to get into med school because I was preparing for the Psyc PhD all along.

2) I'm wondering if I will survive in med school because I've had a lot of disappointments in my life and do not want to waste time in something I won't succeed in.

3) I am worried about the medical student lifestyle and the long route leading to a residency afterwards.I am a person who works really hard to get to their dreams, that's why I have a pretty good transcript in college with a lot of activities and good grades....but I also like to have a life....and I'm getting married soon and I am wondering if my relationship will survive being a med student because most people finish medical school before they get married since it's so stressful.

Also, what are my chances of getting into med school if I am a psychology major, I have not done any shadowing or clinically related activities and if I've taken 2.5 years off between high school and college. But currently in undergrad I hold a 3.8 GPA with many community service activities and participation in conferences?


I'm really worried about making such a huge decision. Please let me know if you have any information comparing the two fields or if you've been through any similar experiences.

Thank you!

 

[nitemagi]

Hi everyone! I have a very similar concern.


I am a undergrad student majoring in psychology and I graduate this upcoming June. I originally planned to go for a clinical psychology PhD and become a child clinical psychologist. But deep down in inside I feel like I have always wanted to go to med school and become a pediatrician. I have always dreamed of becoming a doctor but I steered away from it because I was too afraid, after several circumstances I have been through in my life. I know that I would probably be better with the hard sciences (I've done well in anatomy and physiology before but horrible in biochemistry and histology) rather than with research in the clinical PhD but is it even an accurate assumption that the PhD is more research oriented and to what extent? I am having the hardest time making this decision because:

1) I have not taken the required coursework or the MCAT to get into med school because I was preparing for the Psyc PhD all along.

2) I'm wondering if I will survive in med school because I've had a lot of disappointments in my life and do not want to waste time in something I won't succeed in.

3) I am worried about the medical student lifestyle and the long route leading to a residency afterwards.I am a person who works really hard to get to their dreams, that's why I have a pretty good transcript in college with a lot of activities and good grades....but I also like to have a life....and I'm getting married soon and I am wondering if my relationship will survive being a med student because most people finish medical school before they get married since it's so stressful.

Also, what are my chances of getting into med school if I am a psychology major, I have not done any shadowing or clinically related activities and if I've taken 2.5 years off between high school and college. But currently in undergrad I hold a 3.8 GPA with many community service activities and participation in conferences?


I'm really worried about making such a huge decision. Please let me know if you have any information comparing the two fields or if you've been through any similar experiences.

Thank you!

Medicine is a long road. Know that you want it before you embark on it.

That being said, there's nothing about what you've said about yourself that will limit your chances. Science majors don't improve you chance of admission. Admissions committees just want to know that you can handle the science of medicine (which you can demonstrate via good pre-med course grades and a good MCAT score). If you haven't done pre-med classes, this will take some time, and you could do shadowing for that along the way. It'll take at least 2 years to get into med school from where you're at. Then 4 years schooling, 3+ years residency. Your pre-med courses will probably give you a basic barometer on how you'll fare stress-wise.

 

[Pragma]

is it even an accurate assumption that the PhD is more research oriented and to what extent?

Absolutely. Medical students get almost zero research training. They might do a rotation here or there or have minimal involvement in residency, but they do not take courses or have regular practical research experiences. Now, there may be some variability by program, but a PhD is extremely research oriented by comparison (and definition).

1) I have not taken the required coursework or the MCAT to get into med school because I was preparing for the Psyc PhD all along.

2) I'm wondering if I will survive in med school because I've had a lot of disappointments in my life and do not want to waste time in something I won't succeed in.

3) I am worried about the medical student lifestyle and the long route leading to a residency afterwards.I am a person who works really hard to get to their dreams, that's why I have a pretty good transcript in college with a lot of activities and good grades....but I also like to have a life....and I'm getting married soon and I am wondering if my relationship will survive being a med student because most people finish medical school before they get married since it's so stressful.

Also, what are my chances of getting into med school if I am a psychology major, I have not done any shadowing or clinically related activities and if I've taken 2.5 years off between high school and college. But currently in undergrad I hold a 3.8 GPA with many community service activities and participation in conferences?

Regarding getting in, you might need to do a post-bacc program if you do not have all of the required classes for admission. Sure, you can apply, but if you have bad scores in some of those courses is it not a good predictor of success. Actually, how well you do with the MCAT is probably a good predictor of how medical school will go for you.

As for your bolded comment, I wouldn't bring that attitude to school. It is very wise to explore your options and make the most informed decision that you can. But you are really the only person that can answer that question, and no one can guarantee that you are going to succeed. You may be setting yourself up for disappointment if you overestimate your own skills OR don't have the work ethic it takes to succeed in medical school or a PhD program. Having had disappointments in the past will mean nothing on Day 1 of whatever program you choose.

As for marriage, I know people in medical school and clinical PhD programs who got married before or during the program. You figure out a way to make it work. I got married quite close to starting my Clinical PhD program and we are still together (and happy - it is possible but tough!). But, your expectations about having a life might go out the window. Both types of programs are rigorous. I worked between 70-80 hours a week year-round for the first 4 years of my program, and it has not slowed down a lot since then. That said, a clinical PhD program probably allows more flexibility with regard to how fast you complete it. If you slow down to "have a life" then you might take a couple of years longer to finish than others.

Finally, these days I encourage students to really take their time making this specific decision. Job prospects, compensation, and to an extent basic professional respect will all be better following medical school. However, do not take that to the extreme...many of my physician friends lament about financial issues and increasing competition quite a bit. You take out significantly more debt to be a physician, and success/high salaries are not guaranteed.