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How did everyone maintain their mental health with clerkships, gunners, constant change, and uncertainty about where they will end up?
I am technically a millennial but really gen X so I just suppressed it like other memories from my childhood. The work is done when the work is done, mental health isn't a thing.How did everyone maintain their mental health with clerkships, gunners, constant change, and uncertainty about where they will end up?
100%. Friends, family time, mini-vacations (wknd getaways), music, some Assassin’s Creed Black Flag (fav at the time) 🤓Podiatry isn't everything.
Comrade, you can just chill out without thinking "what if you don't pass the APMLE" because there's always an alternate road. Look at New Mexico, they even let Spain licensed Podiatrists & Canada licensed Podiatrists to get a reciprocity license. [Spain doesn't even have a licensure exam, a Podiatry graduate just needs to join their association to gain a license. So you can come there to enlist yourself then comeback to US to avail this privilege]. Thanks to the lawmakers for their generosity to let dreams come true nowadays, there's no uncertainty anymore.How did everyone maintain their mental health with clerkships, gunners, constant change, and uncertainty about where they will end up?
Comrade, you can just chill out without thinking "what if you don't pass the APMLE" because there's always an alternate road. Look at New Mexico, they even let Spain licensed Podiatrists & Canada licensed Podiatrists to get a reciprocity license. [Spain doesn't even have a licensure exam, a Podiatry graduate just needs to join their association to gain a license. So you can come there to enlist yourself then comeback to US to avail this privilege]. Thanks to the lawmakers for their generosity to let dreams come true nowadays, there's no uncertainty anymore.
Just this year New Mexico released this edict ↘️
How would they get malpractice insurance?Comrade, you can just chill out without thinking "what if you don't pass the APMLE" because there's always an alternate road. Look at New Mexico, they even let Spain licensed Podiatrists & Canada licensed Podiatrists to get a reciprocity license. [Spain doesn't even have a licensure exam, a Podiatry graduate just needs to join their association to gain a license. So you can come there to enlist yourself then comeback to US to avail this privilege]. Thanks to the lawmakers for their generosity to let dreams come true nowadays, there's no uncertainty anymore.
Just this year New Mexico released this edict ↘️
Oh wait until residency honeyThe worst days are when I have to wake up around 4:45 am and spend the day doing nonstop things until 4-6 pm.
It's especially worse when everyone you're meeting that day is new, the places are all new, and you aren't getting paid a single cent.
4th year is basically intense volunteering, with all the cons of doing a job with none of the perks.
To be fair residents are atleast getting paid….4th years are paying to workOh wait until residency honey
I'm not complaining about long hours because they are long hours.Oh wait until residency honey
And another worst part is that you pay the 4th year tuition in which you are out 4-6 months of the year on externships/clerkships and also taking some (but not all) dumbed-down courses that's not needed to finish off the year. You're also paying for housing on clerkships too. It's ridiculous. Money going out only. Of course you can feel hopeless.I'm not complaining about long hours because they are long hours.
I'm complaining because 0 dollars of income a month is brutal. At least in residency you get a paycheck.
Working 40 hours a week while getting paid 0 dollars is way worse that working 80 hours a week and making 55k+.
And another worst part is that you pay the 4th year tuition in which you are out 4-6 months of the year on externships/clerkships and also taking some (but not all) dumbed-down courses that's not needed to finish off the year. You're also paying for housing on clerkships too. It's ridiculous. Money going out only. Of course you can feel hopeless.
You are not "working" as a student... try to avoid the 'woe-is-me' attitude. Students go home with no charts to do, no dictations, no worries since the attending + residents are responsible for the outpts and inpts and surgery pts, no required on-call, no risk that the surgery will go poor if you don't prep well or perform well, etc. It won't be that way for much longer... get as much benefit as you can from student exp and lack of real accountability.Right, I feel like there's a time limit most people can take lol.
People are not meant to work for free for too long, and the 3rd and 4th year being 24 months of that is just a bit too much imo.
Agree 100%. Stop the whining, learn, power through.You are not "working" as a student... try to avoid the 'woe-is-me' attitude. Students go home with no charts to do, no dictations, no worries since the attending + residents are responsible for the outpts and inpts and surgery pts, no required on-call, no risk that the surgery will go poor if you don't prep well, etc. It won't be that way for much longer... get as much benefit as you can from student exp.
They only "work" things you "have to do" as a student are still basically optional and they're for your own gain:
-show up to learn things, see pathology, pass rotations, prep/shadow for residency job schedule
-study to gain a degree, pass boards, do well at residency interviews and secure better post-grad training
-gain skills and ideas to eventually make money, help your own pts, maybe run your own office, etc
As a resident, you will have much more responsibility.
Attending? Even moreso.
Enjoy being a student while it lasts.
Students are just there to watch, learn and help out a bit. Sure, some do minor roles, but those things are far from necessary. People aren't going to care if a student shows up late for rounds, surgery, etc since they're basically just observers... they just might think they're lazy. The residency would go on just fine without student presentations or students looking up morning labs or retracting in OR or drawing up injections or whatever. The residents and attendings and patients can get by just fine without students... and they do exactly that in many months.
Students usually hurt the efficiency of rounds, academics, etc by asking questions, being slow, making mistakes... but it's good for their growth to teach them... and it helps the residents reinforce what they know (or should know). Residents are also a slight slowdown or sometimes a slight help for attendings depending where they're at (1st, 2nd, 3rd year, etc) and how good they personally are or aren't in terms of skill and aptitude. You might understand that more in a couple years once you're a senior resident or an attending. But yeah... students don't "work for free"... because they don't do real work.
Not working vs not working as much as a resident are two very different things.You are not "working" as a student... try to avoid the 'woe-is-me' attitude. Students go home with no charts to do, no dictations, no worries since the attending + residents are responsible for the outpts and inpts and surgery pts, no required on-call, no risk that the surgery will go poor if you don't prep well or perform well, etc. It won't be that way for much longer... get as much benefit as you can from student exp and lack of real accountability.
They only "work" things you "have to do" as a student are still basically optional and they're for your own gain:
-show up to learn things, see pathology, pass rotations, prep/shadow for residency job schedule
-study to gain a degree, pass boards, do well at residency interviews and secure better post-grad training
-gain skills and ideas to eventually make money, help your own pts, maybe run your own office, etc
As a resident, you will have much more responsibility.
Attending? Even moreso.
Enjoy being a student while it lasts.
Students are just there to watch, learn and help out a bit. Sure, some do minor roles, but those things are far from necessary. People aren't going to care if a student shows up late for rounds, surgery, etc since they're basically just observers... they just might think they're lazy. The residency would go on just fine without student presentations or students looking up morning labs or retracting in OR or drawing up injections or whatever. The residents and attendings and patients can get by just fine without students... and they do exactly that in many months.
Students usually hurt the efficiency of rounds, academics, etc by asking questions, being slow, making mistakes... but it's good for their growth to teach them... and it helps the residents reinforce what they know (or should know). Residents are also a slight slowdown or sometimes a slight help for attendings depending where they're at (1st, 2nd, 3rd year, etc) and how good they personally are or aren't in terms of skill and aptitude. Many good attendings refuse to work with junior residents for that reason - or even start a fellowship for that reasoning (better and more useful help). You might understand that more in a couple years once you're a senior resident or an attending. But yeah... students don't "work for free"... because they don't do real work.
I think whining and venting are two different things. I do a lot of extra things on my externships and do it without any problems.Agree 100%. Stop the whining, learn, power through.
I can understand your frustration and the need to vent on that. A lot of my colleagues did the same and so did I. The way to look at it is that you are exchanging the time and effort in learning at the program from the tuition money that was paid to the school. The school provides the opportunity to visit programs. It's an exchange. In the end you're getting a fair trade in a chance to interview at the program, an evaluation for the month spent in order to graduate, and overall the experience (to evaluate how you fit into the program, what it's like as a resident there, what you don't know and how you can improve, connections you can gain, the list goes on and on). There's no contract or employment involved here, so you cannot expect to get paid as a student doctor. It does suck big time, but it is what it is. The thing that I wish for the 4th year podiatry school is the reduced tuition cost by maybe $10K to offset the months out on externships/clerkships. That way you don't feel cheated. It's hard to have everything.Not working vs not working as much as a resident are two very different things.
I admitted that residents do much more than students, but that doesn't mean time isn't money. Students are there doing a lot of things residents are doing, just for free.
In some senior clinics, you are charting the patients from start to finish the whole month anyway. It's 100% work. No question about it.
I'm complaining about 0 dollars for working (while paying school tuition and cost of living), which is a completely reasonable stance. It's not even close to an illogical stance.
In some senior clinics, you are charting the patients from start to finish the whole month anyway. It's 100% work. No question about it.
But yeah... students don't "work for free"... because they don't do real work.
Residency you learn so much while also simultaneously put up with a lot of BS. Being paid is great, sure, but the 'work' i did as a student vs the work im doing now is not even in the same realm. Fourth year is a glorified field trip where you watch residents work and try to be helpful while the resident does the major lifting. for the most part, if you get good grades and get good clerkships you aren't stuck in nail jail for fourth year.Agree 100%. Stop the whining, learn, power through.
I just think people hear what they want to hear.Residency you learn so much while also simultaneously put up with a lot of BS. Being paid is great, sure, but the 'work' i did as a student vs the work im doing now is not even in the same realm. Fourth year is a glorified field trip where you watch residents work and try to be helpful while the resident does the major lifting. for the most part, if you get good grades and get good clerkships you aren't stuck in nail jail for fourth year.
The harsh reality as a fourth year is you are the least busy person in that room of attendings and residents. so buck up and figure it out, because it only gets harder as a resident and atttending.
I just think people hear what they want to hear.
No one is arguing being a fourth year is harder than being a resident or attending, I'm just arguing that it sucks being a 4th year for having to work for no money.
No kidding...Wait until you're an attending and get to work for student loans!
How did everyone maintain their mental health with clerkships, gunners, constant change, and uncertainty about where they will end up?
You have to remember that the VAST majority of podiatry residencies are fairly new.My mental health went 6feet under, especially externing at Hospitals with MD/DO students and residencies. We do so little involvement when compared with actual medical students it is really sad. MD/DO extern students do everything from managing patients, consulting other departments, speaking with pharmacy, etc practically getting a great exposure to how residency will be which is exciting whereas us foot students usually just shadow, apply bandages as a free labor wound care nurse, and maybe use our hands for something aside from resting it on the sterile field in the OR. This profession is not worth it for my generation and younger. Before any podiatry loyalist come slam dunk on me, I externed at both average and highly coveted residencies so telling me I was at the VA externship is invalid
Fair points being made on both sides.
I enjoy being a resident more than a 4th year.
4th year sucked for same reasons listed above. Your work and impact mattered less. Month long try out, not getting paid, constantly getting judged.
Residency sucked for different reasons but at least you knew you were there for a reason and what you did mattered. The pay check helps as well.
Its ok to vent as a 4th year. Its also ok to realize as a 4th year, your residents and attendings are putting in much more work than you- even if they aren't feeling the stress you're feeling- there are different stressors and stuff they are doing in the background constantly.
Last year and have a non-associate job lined up.Are you really in residency still?
Because if you are I cannot WAIT to hear what you have to say when you try and get a decent paying job in this field. This should be good…
I got lucky. My process was not typical.
All the pgy3s seeing Weirdy locking up a non associate job. Congrats!
Rooting for you!!I got lucky. My process was not typical.
It is all about who you know in this field. Friends, attendings, etc. It really is not best podiatrist for the job. Hate to break it to anyone here.I got lucky. My process was not typical.
Wayduminnit. You are saying I could post endless random videos and threads and promotions for my office, hospital, school, organizations - and give directive to delete any saying otherwise - if I $ponsored the forum?It is all about who you know in this field. Friends, attendings, etc. It really is not best podiatrist for the job. Hate to break it to anyone here.
Congrats on getting whatever job you got.
Do I do think you and the other moderator support a certain side by prematurely locking up threads where other posters are posting non pro-podiatry perspectives....yes it is abundantly clear.
Understandable why you would think that.It is all about who you know in this field. Friends, attendings, etc. It really is not best podiatrist for the job. Hate to break it to anyone here.
Congrats on getting whatever job you got.
Do I do think you and the other moderator support a certain side by prematurely locking up threads where other posters are posting non pro-podiatry perspectives....yes it is abundantly clear.
Do I do think you and the other moderator support a certain side by prematurely locking up threads where other posters are posting non pro-podiatry perspectives....yes it is abundantly clear.
You probably remember, but there was pretty much a wholesale hockey-style line change of a few heavily conversational podiatry mods (and a few pod regulars) "retiring" 2010-12... and various new ones brought in. Same thing again a handful of years after (2 mods out, 2 in... although one stayed in convos for a year or more after being moderator).First, the mods don't lock threads because they're biased, they lock threads because we often bicker like children...
Good post, Cal 🙂I'm apparently an outlier because I actually enjoyed 3rd and 4th year overall. 1st year, and especially 2nd year, sucked. I'm not made to sit in a lecture hall or learn by reading. Externships were where I actually began to truly learn.
The worst thing in 4th year was the interview-like feel for a month solid. I always felt like I was on egg shells already, and then they want you to socialize after hours and I just never could relax enough in that forced scenario.
If you don't like 4th year, it's because you have the wrong attitude about it. No one owes you anything. You're not special and you didn't earn anything yet.
My best advice that carried me through those years was, "Embrace the suck." Going to the gym makes you sore. Doing hard things gives you calluses and pain. But look forward to the results and it makes the process more tolerable. Every stage of life has its pros and cons. I can tell you that no stage was like I had anticipated.
Also, the part about paid vs unpaid is pretty laughable. Who cares whether you're paid or not. I never thought about my pay, or lack thereof, until my real job. Live off of nothing so that it doesn't matter either way. My 1st year of residency I made 30k and I still paid off a couple smaller student loans. Now I net that in a month.
Final advice: Listen to some podcasts of people with real problems and know you've got it pretty good. Try to have some fun along the way and embrace some classmates during the process as fellow comrades in the foxhole or whatever analogy you prefer.
Cheers.
Yes, for sure. It is hard to see that disparity in job options and income.I think what makes 4th year also depressing (if you read SDN or is remotely aware of what is going on with the profession) is the fact that you're working just as hard as other 4th year md/do students but their career is fruitful at the end of all of this, while us.....god bless...
Great post. We get to live a crazy life. So many people live and die in the city they were born. Some others will travel sparingly but never get off the beaten path. We had this unique opportunity to spend a month in different locations and gain a ton of life experiences. I'm super frugal so I didn't do a lot of things classmates did, but looking up interesting dives, museums, or nature trails led to some fun weekends that I would never experience otherwise. Don't get too bogged down in the grind to forget to look up and around you.Yes, for sure. It is hard to see that disparity in job options and income.
Fourth year is a great time to finally reap the benefits of your studies, though.
You get to see the procedures you've read all about.
You get to create options for residency.
I know my knowledge took off exponentially 4th year.
I was challenged to learn and read a ton.
I met a ton of cool people... saw new places, restaurants, cities.
You get to see some hardcore docs with different thinking than the pod school profs.
You meet students from different pod schools and can get intel or new ideas.
You meetbabespeople from all kinds of MD and DO and nursing and other schools in the hospitals.
It is all in how you view it, I suppose.
First, the mods don't lock threads because they're biased, they lock threads because we often bicker like children.
Second, podiatry isn't the only profession where "it's not what you know it's who you know" (look at actors, university professors, and politicians for other examples) but when we're cranking out 11 schools worth of grads, knowing the right people will be key to good jobs. As for me, my story is more of a lemons to lemonade situation, a little bit of hard work and a whole lot of toenails.
This is the beauty of lobster podiatry. You don't have to know anyone, you just find a good spot on the ocean floor and scavenge for patients no one else wants. You don't need friends in high places when you're thriving at the bottom.