Your personal future

[DPTforMEuC]

I have spent a lot of time looking into the future of physical therapy as it pertains to the advancement of the profession as a whole, the development of physical therapists as professionals, and the betterment of patient care. But I don't see the APTA setting expected personal standards for the physical therapist.

The fact is that the DPT education has become and will continue to be an enormous expense for any individual to take on. Many people on these boards have recommended applying to state schools which are supposedly much cheaper. However what they may not understand is that it seems that most everyone has this idea. As a result the number of applicants to these "cheaper" schools is overwhelming and the possibility of being accepted is greatly diminished.

Other recommendations state to wait a year and then reapply if you can't get into the most affordable school. The biggest problem is that the economy still sucks and job options are not exactly abundant. This is why many people have chosen to go back to school in the first place.

The point being, that inevitably a higher priced education is the only option for many people. Most schools will probably cost $120-150k+ (including living expenses and everything) to acquire a DPT. Anyone applying for scholarships will soon realize that the thousands of people competing for the few that are available means that the likelihood of receiving any money is..well.. unlikely.

I followed my heart into this field. But I would hate to have to live like a college student the rest of my life in order to pay back shockingly enormous school loans. It's a very sad notion and to me indicates a serious flaw somewhere in the system. As professionals we should hope to attract the brightest and most talented individuals into our field and not simply the most altruistic.

I am wondering if anyone can provide a comment on what they logically believe should be the expected standard for a physical therapist - salary, benefits, hours, autonomy, etc. What do you feel PT's should legitimately expect from their jobs and what do you feel we are honestly worth as professionals? It would be interesting to see the average personal conclusion of PT worth as a whole. If you don't believe that PT's are worth more than what they make, how they are perceived, etc. I would be interested in knowing why.

Of course no one knows exactly what will become of PT's with the changes in healthcare. If we did, we may or may not be making different decisions. But I believe that consensus of self worth is the first step toward gauging where the profession will take us. Is the DPT (along with higher education) really just the next housing and dot.com bubble?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[469738]

I personally agree that the DPT is not worth a 150k. I personally had chosen a good profession when I graduated undergrad (engineering) and have worked 5 years in that field. I have recently chosen for various reasons to go to DPT school. I am taking my pre-reqs slowly and saving as much money as I can. I am not sure where you are in your studies, but if you havent started undergrad yet or are still young enough to change. I suggest you go into soemthing like engineering, work for a couple years then go to DPT school unless you have another route to go to school cheaply. The DPT degree isnt work 120k, in my opinion (no degree is expect maybe a doctor). I would suggest join the trades (plumbing electrical ) if you are really worried about debt. You will have a good career without this debt. My family is mostly tradesmen and doing very well.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

I personally agree that the DPT is not worth a 150k. I personally had chosen a good profession when I graduated undergrad (engineering) and have worked 5 years in that field. I have recently chosen for various reasons to go to DPT school. I am taking my pre-reqs slowly and saving as much money as I can. I am not sure where you are in your studies, but if you havent started undergrad yet or are still young enough to change. I suggest you go into soemthing like engineering, work for a couple years then go to DPT school unless you have another route to go to school cheaply. The DPT degree isnt work 120k, in my opinion (no degree is expect maybe a doctor). I would suggest join the trades (plumbing electrical ) if you are really worried about debt. You will have a good career without this debt. My family is mostly tradesmen and doing very well.

This sounds like bad advice to me.

If a person is really interested in physical therapy they should go for it. Live frugally while in school, have roomates or live with family, minimize the amount of loans you take out, etc. The previous posts I've seen regarding salary for a PT are low from the vast majority I've seen and been offered. Traveling PT is an excellent option right out of school if pay is a significant factor.

If you want to be a PT, go to PT school. Don't go into plumbing or engineering simply because it is more economically viable.

Physical therapy has a ton of upside for the patient and for PT's now and in the future.

 

[DPTforMEuC]

Thanks for your response. I think we all know that the DPT is not worth $150k now. My question was really to gauge if it will ever be worth that amount of money. I believe the first step in finding out is determining whether physical therapists believe they should be making more money. If no one here believes they are worth more, then it will never matter what legislation the APTA tries to get passed or how much effort they spend on engaging the public. However in order to pay back the increasingly outrageous school loans being acquired by DPT students something will have to change. The APTA currently measures a growth rate of nearly 20% in income for physical therapists with 0-3 years of experience between 2004-2010. It also reports that the average student has a debt of around $96,000 upon graduation. While the average salary for students is reported to be only $60,600. Taking into account interest of 7.9% and a payment plan of ten years this equates to 23% of a persons expected annual income towards repayment alone. That is a sad figure considering most people would like to do something with the rest of their lives other than pay back school loans. To me it is a bit disheartening that while it seems like everyone is looking out for "the profession" and enhanced patient care, many individuals who may really have a lot to offer the field and advance the career are turned away by the thought of insurmountable debt. For those of us who simply followed our passion, will we spend the entirety of our careers paying back a debt that others in the broad field of medicine are able to surpass in order to continue with their lives in a reasonable amount of time. Will the growth in salary continue, and will new grads be able to find jobs that reasonably support their tremendous investment in education? I think it's sad that I even have to ask that question. I'm interested to know if the physical therapists personal future is something that should be given a strategy plan like APTA's vision 2020 as it seems at this point, like its something of a question mark.

 

[469738]

The main concern for the original poster seems to be finances, so go about it the cheapest way possible. IF that means you dont get in for a year to a cheap school, I say wait a year and save up working somewhere. Be resourceful in using your skills to make some money. There seems to be a significant ignorance about Debt these days and how much debt really affects ones life. Ignorantly taking out 150K in debt, without thinking about it is crazy. If you make a plan to pay it off you can do ok, but you will not have mansion in LA. If I had to do it all over I would have gone to community college, and then to a 4 year cheap school to finish undergrad. when I go to DPT school I am moving to a different state working for a year, then getting the cheap instate tution.

 

[PTisfun]

But I don't see the APTA setting expected personal standards for the physical therapist.

The fact is that the DPT education has become and will continue to be an enormous expense for any individual to take on. Many people on these boards have recommended applying to state schools which are supposedly much cheaper. However what they may not understand is that it seems that most everyone has this idea. As a result the number of applicants to these "cheaper" schools is overwhelming and the possibility of being accepted is greatly diminished.

The point being, that inevitably a higher priced education is the only option for many people. Most schools will probably cost $120-150k+ (including living expenses and everything) to acquire a DPT. Anyone applying for scholarships will soon realize that the thousands of people competing for the few that are available means that the likelihood of receiving any money is..well.. unlikely.

\

I agree with you. The APTA has dropped the ball on moving the profession to where they stated it should be. Most PTs I know now say Vision 2020 is outdated and not a relevant document any longer (publicly Alan Jette said this for the most part at a APTA conference this year).

Tuition is high, and will not get lower. State schools are going to get more expensive. I only took economics in high school a very long time ago , but I think it is just supply and demand.
PTCAS send all universities a report about applications for your own school as well as 'peer institutions.' PTCAS does not do a great job defining how peers are identified, but geography and size of the program seem to be 2 of the major ones they use (based solely on who PTCAS identifies as our peers). We have often stated that we get a lot of applicants based on the cost and also we have a well respected program regionally. But University administrators look and see private schools (some of our peers) get a lot of applicants too (maybe 200 less, but still over 500/year). So then they think cost may not be as much of a factor, and feel we can raise tuition to cover other programs that are less 'popular' (not that they do not have value....they are just small graduate programs). State schools are looking at decreasing state money coming to them, and students sadly bear much of the brunt. Most Univ try to 'protect' undergrads more since that is often the primary mission of the Univ (educating undergrads), and many think of graduate school as a 'choice.' Schools that split graduate programs from professional programs (where PT would fall) are a little more insulated from this it appears, but since I do not work at one, I cannot say for certain.

I am not saying this is a good thing, or that I agree with it, but I think this is a bit of what is going on. It stinks, and for those graduating with a PT degree, you are going to have a bunch of debt.

I do not know what the solution is about it, but I think getting PT on the loan forgiveness would be a huge step towards that. I cannot believe I am going to write this, but I think it is going to be waaaay easier to get the federal government to do something that to get all universities to do something! So salary will have to be raised to justify the continued increasing school costs. What the magic salary is? I do not know (I work in academics, so my salary is slightly higher than an new grad PT ).

The other option is a non-feasible one, but relates to my high school economics lesson. Less demand, costs at schools will be lowered. But not feasible as there are many (many who I have read on this forum, multiplied by many-fold) dedicated people who are interested in being PTs. Not a bad thing societally, but bad to get tuition lowered I fear. As long as application numbers remain high, Universities will see no reason to do anything about tuition.

 

[lee9786]

There is a huge problem with the system. If you look at the history of PT, you will see financial success is highly tied with the Medicare program. Medicare in fact has been a huge factor in increasing costs of the entire health care system. When the Government sets an arbitrary amount of money for payments, everything is bound to get messed up. Private insurance companies historically have followed Medicare payments as a guide to how much they will reimburse. What's the trend recently? Multiple Procedure Payment Reduction and Medicare B cuts in Physician Fee Schedule. The Salary a DPT can ask for is contingent upon what type of Revenue they will bring in. A lower revenue brought it means a lower Salary.

Another huge problem which is the elephant in the room is the Fiscal Insolvency of Medicare. This is a huge hush hush topic. People will delegate it to "no one knows what the future holds" but the reality is that this program is not sustainable and no responsible action has been taken to phase it out with a better alternative. Medicare is paid ultimately from Taxes must be generated from the public. The incoming Taxes that matter are the taxes that come from Private industry (not Government Jobs which are only paying themselves so Govt. Jobs building bridges et al are not going to help the big picture).

The generation x.y generations are simply not great enough in number or economically stable to sustain this Medicare program. Real wealth comes through a Production-based economy. We get our production cheap from China do to a highly manipulated over valued currency. We have largely a service-based even Welfare economy (unemployment, Social Security, Disability <some maybe many are disabled by their own negligence of their health>).

Waiting tables might bring some money into the pocket, but it does next to nothing to producing wealth for a nation. The strength of our nation has fallen upon our currency which is fiat/faith-based since Nixon took us off the Gold standard. It's strength is tied into it being the World's Reserve Currency used for OPEC, and the World is not liking our 6 trillion + borrow money so we can get fat at Mcdonalds get stuff cheap at Walmart economic policy. Nations such as China are "diversifying" away from the dollar in anticipation of inflation encouraging their citizens to purchase silver.

So long story short, the salary of Physical Therapists (and every other Health Care Professional) has been higher than the free market would pay for decades due to tampering in Medicare. Medicare looks to be at the end of the road. So salary trend looks to be going down not up.

As for education, there is a very fundamental reason to why school is so expensive now (much greater than inflation). It is because the Governement got involved in gauranteeing loans in their effort to get everybody in school. If there is no risk, the loans will be coming out to students (irregardless of ability to pay) because they are gauranteed by the Government via tax payer dollars. Now we are lending directly from the Government. Unlimited loans means unlimited demand. Basic supply and demand concepts.. price goes up to account for the increasing demand.

So Colleges/Universities are the best businesses going right now. They can not fail. Not as long as the money is freely available to students.

So while the trend of education costs are going up, the trend of Salary is going down. Something is going to give at some point. The system is broke, and all we have in politics is the same lies over and over again promising the status quo.