Your opinion on applying to current AOA IM residencies (2018)

[JustPass]

Hello everyone,
as someone who doesn't have the greatest COMLEX 1 score, around 520-540 (even worse USMLE 1, i think), I've been looking to apply to current AOA internal medicine residencies. Currently there are about 59ish programs out there and I plan on applying to about 40+ programs.
I currently do rotations at an AOA IM program and actually like this hospital for the amount of different exposures we get (not a fan of the area though). Will be submitting the AOA application very soon.

My questions is, since those AOA IM programs are essentially going to be ACGME residencies in upcoming year or two (I think all of them are in initial accreditation status which means they are very, if not guaranteed, to become an ACGME at this point), does it matter if I apply to AOA or ACGME programs this year?
I've seen other posts on this topic and have seen comments like "GO TO ACGME." But isn't current AOA programs going to be ACGME anyways?

I don't have my COMLEX 2 score yet, took is a few weeks ago and I'll uptake it on here soon. STEP 2 score should be coming in about a month. I don't assume I scored very well.
I plan on working at a community hospital and do not have endevors of specializing.

I am going to be applying to ACGME as well and applying very broadly with only a hand full of reaches to low or mid academic programs.

I know this depends on how many interviews I get and how the interviews go but should I take the safety road and rank AOA or just rank ACGME?
What would you do?
I honestly would be happy with both. I don't think ACGME automatically equals better hospital or program.
However, I do want to learn from the best (given within my spec range) and I think more ACGME programs are at more (relatively) desirable locations (correct me if I'm wrong), if not at least there are more to choose from given there are 400+ ACGME programs (which I'll be applying 10-15% of them).

What would you do? What is your opinion?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[SuckySurgeon7]

At this point, any program that has not already received preliminary accreditation (or whatever the technical term for "all your ducks are in a row at this stage of the game") is a danger to your future. This is the case because they may or may not have be accredited by the deadline. Why choose a program that is a risk when there are so many sure-thing's out there?

Most of the AOA programs that are good programs have already converted to ACGME by this point. I applied last year and it is easy to was a very fair question to ask at interviews where a program stood in terms of its accreditation status if it was an AOA program.

Bottom line: don't rank highly any of the AOA programs that haven't received accreditation by this point. It's a risk you don't want to take, even if it's your home program that you talked about.

Next, I would definitely still apply to several university-affiliated programs on both the MD and DO sides. There are plenty of places that will interview you with >500 comlex. Good luck!!

 

[JustPass]

At this point, any program that has not already received preliminary accreditation (or whatever the technical term for "all your ducks are in a row at this stage of the game") is a danger to your future. This is the case because they may or may not have be accredited by the deadline. Why choose a program that is a risk when there are so many sure-thing's out there?

Most of the AOA programs that are good programs have already converted to ACGME by this point. I applied last year and it is easy to was a very fair question to ask at interviews where a program stood in terms of its accreditation status if it was an AOA program.

Bottom line: don't rank highly any of the AOA programs that haven't received accreditation by this point. It's a risk you don't want to take, even if it's your home program that you talked about.

Next, I would definitely still apply to several university-affiliated programs on both the MD and DO sides. There are plenty of places that will interview you with >500 comlex. Good luck!!

Thank you for your reply.
Actually though, all of the one that are currently available to apply via AOA have at least an initial accreditation.
From my understanding, they are "almost" at the full accreditation, if not guaranteed to be as long as they don't screw things up.

 

[gutonc]

Thank you for your reply.
Actually though, all of the one that are currently available to apply via AOA have at least an initial accreditation.
From my understanding, they are "almost" at the full accreditation, if not guaranteed to be as long as they don't screw things up.

IIRC, "initial accreditation" just means that they submitted their application on time, not that there has been any assessment of the program yet.

 

[JustPass]

IIRC, "initial accreditation" just means that they submitted their application on time, not that there has been any assessment of the program yet.

Aren't you mistaking Pre-accreditation with initial accreditation?
From what I gathered, initial accreditation is further along than pre-accreditation.

From https://www.acgme.org/Portals/0/fs_faq.pdf

Question: When will a newly accredited program appear in the list of ACGMEaccredited programs and National Residency Matching Program (NRMP) list?
Shortly after the RRC has reviewed an application, the program director and the designated institutional official (DIO) of the sponsoring institution will receive notification of the accreditation decision. Once the program has received initial accreditation, it is included in the list of newly accredited programs on the ACGME web site according to the effective date of accreditation. This information is available to the public, including applicants. Once a program receives notification from the ACGME that the program has been granted accreditation, the program director should contact the NRMP to request the program’s inclusion in the NRMP listing.

 

[gutonc]

Probably.

But in any event, if you've already decided on the answer, why ask the question?

 

[JustPass]

Probably.

But in any event, if you've already decided on the answer, why ask the question?

My question was about what your thoughts are on applying to current aoa programs that will eventually (in a year or so) become acgme programs. This was asked because in previous years, it was all about "apply to acgme" but now that they are combining, does it even matter?
I'm assuming (whether that is a good idea or not) that current programs that have initial accreditation will get the full accreditation.

Not whether if a program was going to get accredited or not, or where they are at now.

 

[rokshana]

My question was about what your thoughts are on applying to current aoa programs that will eventually (in a year or so) become acgme programs. This was asked because in previous years, it was all about "apply to acgme" but now that they are combining, does it even matter?
I'm assuming (whether that is a good idea or not) that current programs that have initial accreditation will get the full accreditation.

Not whether if a program was going to get accredited or not, or where they are at now.

why was it all about applying to acgme? because they were, in general, better programs? does now tacking on an acgme tag to a current AOA program somehow make them better?

 

[JustPass]

why was it all about applying to acgme? because they were, in general, better programs? does now tacking on an acgme tag to a current AOA program somehow make them better?

I think this is your sarcasm and I actually agree.
People on sdn have always said to go to acgme.
But honestly, I would be learning so much at my school's aoa internal med program.
I dont think acgme = better than aoa.
I think there are many worse programs than the one that my hospital offers.

And no, current aoa programs won't become better just by attaching acgme to their name.
And that was the whole point of my question.

"Does it even matter?" That was it. I dont mean to stir up the pot and cause an uproar or anything.

 

[drpulmcritdo]

DO IM Program Chief Resident here,

Initial accreditation means the program was physically inspected by the ACGME and the application, along with inspection paperwork, was reviewed by the RRC (Residency Review Committee) and was given Initial accreditation. After I think 2 years, they are inspected again and if everything is still good, they have what's called "Continued Accreditation" which is what every ACGME program has.

Pre-accreditation does in fact just mean they turned the application is.

Depending on your COMLEX 2 I'd say that you are ok. We do set a minimum COMLEX score of 500 for both 1 and 2 and then review other stuff before offering interviews. So given what you provided, you'd likely get an invite from us. Just make sure you pass PE.

The interview is honestly the most important thing to us. Outside interests, not being weird, being well spoken go a long way. Depending where you go there might also be some area bias (read: Michigan programs mostly take Michigan people).