We on SDN are somewhat of a group of over-achievers; after all, we are taking our own initiative to participate in these forums!
This is true. I think SDN has a high concentration of type A personalities. Basically high-achieving people who work hard to get to where they are. I don't think it's a bad thing at all, and it probably keeps a lot of people on their toes and encourages them to keep working hard. The pre-dental forums especially seem to be a very supportive place on this website.
Within the context of this discussion, I will mainly refer to the Academic Average of the DAT scores I am talking about. This is because the AA is an average of 5 sections and can be used as a quick tool to gauge DAT score range. Instead of quoting specific numbers for all sections, only talking about the AA gives the reader a quick point of reference as to what I'm referring to.
That being said, I rarely see a retake suggested unless someone has a section with a low score, such as a 15 in RC. (The exception of this is QR... It doesn't seem to carry much importance.) The other times, a retake is suggested when a good DAT score is intended to compensate for something else, such as a GPA on the lower end.
In some ways I agree with this. I've seen retakes suggested for people who score an 18 or 19 AA. I don't know whether I would say that it rarely occurs, but it does occur with some frequency. Usually it doesn't occur and usually when people suggest a retake it's because the individual has either a) done poorly on the DAT overall (ex. 15's and 16's littered throughout the score), b) done poorly in one section that counts (as you said, QR is generally an exception to this, because schools don't place as much weight on that), or c) DAT is attempting to compensate for a low GPA and the person didn't quite score in a range that will compensate for a low GPA.
Having said that, these generally well-reasoned suggestions for retaking the DAT are not always the case. There are definitely times that I've seen on this forum, people with an 18AA or a 19AA (no score below 17) being told to retake the DAT to score the "magical" number of 20AA or above. However, for many dental schools the average AA of the
entering class is a 19 (I used the Official Guide to Dental Schools 2012 here, quick glance at Table 3-4). Some schools have an average AA higher than that, and some schools have an average AA lower than that.
One must look objectively and admit that this retake philosophy to get the mythical 20AA does happen. Most frequently, people are able to be pragmatic and make reasonable suggestions, however there are times during which people who don't really need to retake the DAT have been told to retake.
One of the problems with this, as I see it, is that there really is no "magical" number for the DAT. As we have seen within the application cycle, people with 18AA's get accepted and people with 24AA's don't necessarily get any interviews pre-December. The opposite is true as well. And honestly, with an average DAT of 19 for many dental schools, there are far more people with lower DAT scores who get admitted to dental schools than people realize.
The other, larger problem that I see with the fact that this does happen (not necessarily overwhelmingly, but it really does), is whether an individual really is capable of scoring significantly higher on the next DAT attempt. If one follows the DAT forums, one can see that a number of people score higher than their first attempt on their second attempt. However, one does also see scores that are pretty much the same numerically on the second attempt as they are on the first attempt (and since there is a sampling bias for SDN posts, I am willing to bet that people who score the same scores or even lower than their first attempt are not going to be as inclined to make a thread about it). I guess here, one must make a determination of what constitutes a significant jump in scores.
Is a 20AA really so different from a 19AA that certain people with GPA's within the normal range are told to retake the DAT? Perhaps. However, this is a difficult determination to make, considering that the DAT curve is strange in my opinion (for ex, a 22AA can signify 93% or 98-99%, depending on the exam, and that difference in percentiles is pretty significant). The other thing is, dental schools don't see the percentile you scored in, so even if you do improve in the percentile, if you score around the same score, it'll look as if you didn't improve at all during your DAT retake. And that is not what people who are retaking the DAT are going for. Sure, if you score higher for the retake, you are stronger in the applicant pool, as far as DAT scores are concerned anyway. How likely is it that someone is really going to score higher, though? That's an important question.
At this point I wish I had some data that shows how people who are retaking the DAT score in comparison to their original scores. I'm pretty sure that the ADEA has some data on that, but I was unable to find it at this point. I believe I've been told that people retaking the DAT don't score significantly higher in the general sense, however I do not have the data to back that up, so if someone has a link to that (proving or disproving my point), that would be mighty helpful in this discussion.
Anyway, I'm gonna wrap this up. I think we can admit that telling someone to improve an 18 or 19 AA happens on this forum. It's not the most common thing, but it does happen. I like to think that it's all our Type A personalities interacting and making us kind of paranoid about our scores being the easiest way to determine whether people are going to be accepted to dental school (since EC's are harder to gauge). The DAT is something that can be improved upon fairly quickly in most people's minds (you sit for an exam that lasts a day...notice how I didn't say that the DAT was easy to improve, I don't think it is), so if people want to improve something in their application to make them stand out a little more than the average accepted student, that's what they go to first.
I think, though, that the ultimate determination of whether the DAT scores can be improved should in no case be "you didn't get a 20+AA even though you have an 18-19AA, so you need to retake" as that is flawed reasoning. This determination should be made by asking the OP questions such as: do you think you performed your best? Did you study as much as you could? Did you learn the material to the best of what you would consider your ability? Is there really room to improve or are you risking a significant chance of scoring lower or at the same level? Does one really need to retake? etc. Essentially, it's a more personalized approach.
When people ask for advice, I think everyone just does their best to give an honest opinion. Over in the DAT forum, which you're probably talking about, I have seen VERY few posts that were derogatory or possibly intended to "bring down" the poster.
I don't think there are many posts that are derogatory or intended to "bring someone down," but I do think that what I stated above is true.
In the end, though, we're all just speculators, and we're doing the best we can to help each other out! Congratulations to all of you for your acceptances!
Agreed. I think people do the best they can in their own way.
Glimmer1991, in no way is this post meant to attack you personally...I just got into the writing mood, I guess, and used topics I saw in your post to express my thoughts. It's a general post, though.
Also, I have finals, so I'm gonna try to not be on SDN. If this thread has died by the time I come back, at least this post was fun to write.
ETA: shulk (below me) posted some great data sbout DAT and retakes. The following is what doc toothache had to say on the subject in the post shulk posted:
"The data suggests that there is a considerable drop in the scores for the repeaters in all areas, except perhaps PA. Based on this evidence it should be clear that retaking the test is risky, at best. Unless there are solid reason for repeating, the temptation to retake should be avoided. Good reasons would be: 1. you did not prepare adequately for the exam 2. you had a hangover the day of the exam. 3. Your mean DAT (AA) and PA scores are more than 1 point below the national mean or below the mean for the school(s) of your choice.
Unless your plan is to make some fundamental changes in the approach to the exam, such as, spending more time, and making substantial changes to the material used, the advice remains the same."
