You may need to start looking for a new profession other than Dentistry....

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Yeah, soon it will cure oral cancer after detecting it, no?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I bet all fossil-fuel plant electrical engineer specialists have also turned in their retirement notices after the recent State of the Union address mentioned solar and wind power.

We're moving into the 21st century and leaving the smart people without opportunities. Shyeeah right. :laugh:
 
who do you think will be applying this device, ur barber?
 
That device is called " What happens in your mouth every day when you brush your teeth the Fluoride toothpaste"

That is how F gets into your teeth WITHOUT ELECTRIC current. And don't forget, in an acidic envirnoment, some of the F will leach back out...although not a bad thing because then it begins to inhibt bacterial metabolism.

Anyways, dentistry is moving away from surgery for non-cavitated caries and going the route of re-mineralization.

There is an even cooler device than this on the market that dentists use in europe (soon USA). It applies ozone to the teeth then you add a re-mineralization solution. Works awesome. Look it up: KaVo HealOzone

Edit: For the lazy people

http://www.kavo.com/En/produkte/the...lozone/nutzen.asp?navid=1710&lan=En&znavid=26
 
Two words: Maxofacial Surgery :laugh:
 
Well, look what the "Flowbee" did to barbers! They were ruined!
 
There are many reasons why dentistry will be a great profession for many many years.

First, even if you prevent all future decay there are still over 200 million people (many of them age 50+) who have dental treatment that will need replacement in the coming years. That is easily over a billion crowns and fillings and endos. There will be no shortage of dentistry to do even if we could cure caries tomorrow.

Second, elective cosmetic dentistry is the most profitable aspect of general dentistry and the demand has never been higher thanks to reality TV.
 
There's a lot more to dentistry than just drilling, and there's a lot more that can cause injury to teeth than acid (not to mention the fact fluorapatite is still susceptible to acid, though at a lower level than hydroxyapatite). Am I worried about how this technology will impact my practice and patient pool? Not in the slightest.
 
I like how it says "electro-chemical reaction" it makes it sound so technologically advanced. Besides all the references that it lists really strengthens my desire to get it
 
slashdot said:
The company is currently working on a small device which, together with a gel, will impose an efficient ion exchange process through an Electro-chemical reaction in which fluor ions displace the Hydroxide ions at the outer layer of the tooth. This is intended to produce a new mineral layer with significantly improved chemical and physical resistance to the aggressive bacteria and the resulting acidic environment in the mouth.
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Man, I only wish dentists had thought to employ an ion exchange process through chemical reaction in which fluoride ions displace the hydroxide ions at the outer layer of the tooth. Then we could produce a new mineral layer with significantly improved chemical & physical resistance to the aggressive bacteria & the resulting acidic environment in the mouth.

Somebody should congratulate these people on rediscovering fluoride.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
There has been talk about caries elimination for a VERY long time.

When fluoride water treatment was started dentists said this will be the end of caries.

When sealants came out dentists said this will be the end of caries.

Scientists have been working on vaccines for years and at UF they have developed some very exciting stuff using Streptococcus mutans knock-outs that stops caries in their tracks. Which by the way is currently in FDA trials.

Bottom line is yes it is possible that a cure for caries is developed in our life time. However, (as said before) there is a lot more to dentistry than drillin and fillin. As a GP you would still have plenty to do in cosmetics.

Relax folks...
-C
 
SuperC said:
There has been talk about caries elimination for a VERY long time.

When fluoride water treatment was started dentists said this will be the end of caries.

When sealants came out dentists said this will be the end of caries.

Scientists have been working on vaccines for years and at UF they have developed some very exciting stuff using Streptococcus mutans knock-outs that stops caries in their tracks. Which by the way is currently in FDA trials.

Bottom line is yes it is possible that a cure for caries is developed in our life time. However, (as said before) there is a lot more to dentistry than drillin and fillin. As a GP you would still have plenty to do in cosmetics.

Relax folks...
-C
Click to expand...

You're right, but isn't the bread and butter composites, rct, crowns, etc. Without cavities, will this all really be necessary?
 
Tooth & gum regeneration may also be a possibility at some time in the future.

Like someone said, with all the work people already have done, dentist will be very busy for 30-40 more yrs. It seems likely, that after that time, general dentistry will probably be scaled down. Cosmetic procedures are popular, but they are only obtainable for certain people....surely not enough work to sustain general dentist at their current workloads.

Maybe in 30-40 years, cosmetic treatments will be cheap in order to appeal to average people. We'll have dental "shops" where people can come in, and 20 minutes later have perfectly made, computer generated veneers placed---maybe while they're at the mall or somethin'?
 
colt said:
Tooth & gum regeneration may also be a possibility at some time in the future.

Like someone said, with all the work people already have done, dentist will be very busy for 30-40 more yrs. It seems likely, that after that time, general dentistry will probably be scaled down. Cosmetic procedures are popular, but they are only obtainable for certain people....surely not enough work to sustain general dentist at their current workloads.

Maybe in 30-40 years, cosmetic treatments will be cheap in order to appeal to average people. We'll have dental "shops" where people can come in, and 20 minutes later have perfectly made, computer generated veneers placed---maybe while they're at the mall or somethin'?
Click to expand...


keep on dreaming....
 
fightingspirit said:
come on SDNers and moderators, throw in your 2 cents here. this is a serious concern in the corner of many pre-dents minds.

it's a shame that this thread is not getting the attention it warrants....
Click to expand...

Here is what a Dentist i know told me... True people's hygiene etc. is getting much better. This results in people keeping their teeth longer. Back in the day, if a tooth got too back or there was some infection in the mouth, they would pull the teeth and not hesitate to fit for dentures.

Now we have patients concerned with keeping their teeth, with more time comes more exposure to whatever, much higher rates for decay etc. Increased life expectancy also helps in this regard.

There will always be the lazy brushers, the poor, the uneducated etc. that will always have cavities.

(Not sure if this applies to the mouth or not- i would think it would) but with the over-prescription of antibiotics, certain strains of bacteria have become resistant and this could potentially set our bacterial treatment back 100 years.

What was the last health care profession to become obselete...?
 
Comet208 said:
keep on dreaming....
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, how so? If decay is eradicated in 30-40 years than what will dentist do? Cleanings can be done by hygentist, and cosmetic work will be left to the few remaining dentist, who in affect, wouldn't require extensive training. These advances will surely lead to better gum health also.

Of course, this is all reasonable speculation, but I somewhat reluctantly hope the dental field will make progression away from the drill and patch method, which has been around for TOO long. Someone once said that dentistry is profession that refuses to advance; they use a stick and a drill for over 200 yrs. :eek: It does provide great job security though. :laugh:
 
And that's why I say: the future (30yrs+) looks bleak for the general dentist. In order for any these prevention methods to make money they will need to appeal to the middle class. If the middle class stops having tooth decay than that cuts the bulk of the work load for general dentist. The upper middle and high income groups will still want cosmetic work, but thats not going to maintain a demand for dentist. The only thing I could see is making cosmetic procedures cheaper, so they will be affordable for more people---thus broadening the client base.
 
Yet still the Americans help out Israel in all possible way. Great what is next?? how to kill an American and Israel make all the money. I saw this is bs. The US should not allow the import of such a device just for the sake of its people and taxes.
 
BentalScholar said:
Yet still the Americans help out Israel in all possible way. Great what is next?? how to kill an American and Israel make all the money. I saw this is bs. The US should not allow the import of such a device just for the sake of its people and taxes.
Click to expand...

Can you not make this into a discussion about Israel? Leave them out of this; there are plenty of other forums to bash Israel. I assume you're not very fond of them and it's unfortunate.
 
SuperC said:
Scientists have been working on vaccines for years and at UF they have developed some very exciting stuff using Streptococcus mutans knock-outs that stops caries in their tracks. Which by the way is currently in FDA trials.

-C
Click to expand...

Hmm, Actually I heard from other researchers that the vaccine is having some very major issues at the moment and will probably never clear FDA trials. UF is not the only ones with their hand in the cookie jar on this one, many others are working with them also.

It would be nice to get it though...although may not be for a very long time
 
fightingspirit said:
blotter,

i agree that this is not the place to bash a foreign country like israel.

what i dont agree with, is the use of the word "unfortunate" to describe the bashing. i bet you would not say "unfortunate" if someoe was bashing france, canada, or egypt. but when it comes to that foerign country called israel, the bashing is unfortunate. i guess you and the president of harvard would make good friends...lol check him out. his name is Lawrence Summers and he is all about Israel and the jews being flawless and immune to criticism.
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You're actually incorrect sir. I'm extremely upset with Canada and France for not supporting America's effort in the middle east. I have no problem attacking Egypt's political system either and dismal human rights record. Just so you know, I'm NOT Jewish, and Israel should, and must, be critisized for some of its foreign policy. I actually sympathize with the Palestenians, and I hope the two can someday live in peace. My only point is that this is not the forum for this kind of a discussion.
 
fightingspirit said:
to be honest with you guys, this issue has been in the back of my mind for sometime now. i mean dental and oral health in america is improving every year. middle class kids are getting braces, their teeth are becoming well-aligned and they are learning proper brushing techniques that reduce or delay their need for professional dental care. in other words, the teeth of middle class americans (our main market) are imrpoving so much that you start wondering if there's gonna be enough patients in your practice.
Click to expand...


When this happens, I'm moving to Europe.
 
BentalScholar said:
Yet still the Americans help out Israel in all possible way. Great what is next?? how to kill an American and Israel make all the money. I saw this is bs. The US should not allow the import of such a device just for the sake of its people and taxes.
Click to expand...

Please keep the anti-Semitic comments out of the forum. Thank you.
 
In an attempt to get this discussion BACK ON TRACK, wealthy people are not the only market for cosmetic dentistry. People in all brackets of the socioeconomic strata seek cosmetic procedures. It's really not all that expensive. We're not talking about a full mouth reconstruction. We're talking $500-1000 whitening. Maybe $6000 in veneers. Plenty of people will pay that if they want it badly enough. It has been said that as a dentist you are not competing against other dentists. You are competing against the new car, the trip to Hawaii, the jet ski, the new set of rims, that kilo of herb, the new golf clubs --- disposable income. Cosmetic dentistry is a often a luxury like these other products.

It's funny, there are occurrences in many professions where the future appears threatened. Ultimately, creativity and innovation usually carry the profession through and redefine it in new ways. There's a lot more to dentistry than treating caries.

Lastly, please keep the politics out. We don't come here to read political opinions. Surely there are plenty of other messageboards for that.
 
Eliminating dental caries as a disease sounds pretty enticing, but it's a deceptively complex problem. It's a pretty broad topic to address in a single post like this, but I can think of three big reasons off the top of my head that caries vaccines are unlikely to put dentists in the unemployment line:

1) The ecology of the oral cavity. The cariogenic acids bacteria produce are produced by metabolic pathways the bacteria depend on for energy. Oral microbiology is very fluid, and erasing acidogenic fermentation from their genome means putting those bacteria at a major competitive disadvantage relative to their natural rivals, which in turn means it's likely to be a relatively short time before they're squeezed out of the picture entirely.

2) Patient motivation & financial access. The cheapest, most reliable ways to prevent tooth decay are hanging between the Listerine & the DIY denture kits at Walgreens, but millions of people would still rather pay us hundreds & thousands of dollars to repair the damage than spend 5 minutes a day preventing it in the first place. The odds of all those people suddenly finding dental Jesus and banging down the door to get a caries vaccine are vanishingly slim.

3) You've still got nutjobs out there who think *water fluoridation* is a government plot with the twin goals of mind control, & giving people osteosarcoma so they can be sold to the aliens for research. I'll leave you to speculate about reactions when we announce to the public that we want to inoculate them with genetically engineered bacteria.

There are plenty more reasons, but like I said, those three spring immediately to mind.
 
fightingspirit said:
yeah man, but the lazies, the uneducated, and the poor and the immigrants are the ones you'd not wanna see in your practice anyway cus they're not the ones who can actually pay for your services.....it's the middleclass that we mostly depend on. and this middle class is being obliterated everyday by our leaders. the upperclass people have their dentists in beverly hills, tht hamptons.....etc. and those mostly need cosmetics. i am not interested in cosmetics.
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So you're saying that we should not treat "uneducated, and the poor and the immigrants"?
 
It's interesting to note that you can be a successful dentist by treating any socioeconomic class. Many of those dentists who run chop shop low cost practices make a ton of money. They take the HMOs, use the cheap labs, and fill the need of a given niche. Granted, their dentistry may not be as precise, beautiful, longlasting, and flawless as the painstaking dentist who does all his own labwork, but these practices that target low income populations are providing access to care and they're not necessarily doing bad work either. Some of those guys that target low income ethnic populations do extremely well. Their crowns might only be $500 but they are super fast and efficient, and their volume is huge. Don't think you have to treat the middle to upper class to gain financial success. There's a saying: "Treat the masses, dine with the classes. Treat the classes, dine with the masses."
 
drhobie7 said:
It's interesting to note that you can be a successful dentist by treating any socioeconomic class. Many of those dentists who run chop shop l..........class to gain financial success. There's a saying: "Treat the masses, dine with the classes. Treat the classes, dine with the masses."
Click to expand...

Dr. Hobie... Your posts are very well thought out and informative... Thanks!

Look forward to meeting you in sept.
 
In Japan, dentists' salary used to be comparable to that of physicians. But in the last 3 decades, dentists' salary decreased dramatically. After 6 years of dental school, dental associates in Japan are now payed dismal $30,000 a year (please remember that Japan is world's second largest economic power). Medical doctors in Japan easily make over $300,000, whereas dentists who can do orthodontics and maxillofacial surgery make $65,000 on average (the numbers are take-home pay).

In 1970's, dental caries was a big problem in Japan. At that time, numerous profit-run dental schools were established. The main reason behind it was that nation-run dental schools were very difficult to get in, so dentists who wanted their children to become dentists needed such private schools that can allow back-door entry.

30 years later, excess supply of dentists is now becoming a serious social problem in Japan (reference: 歯科医師過剰問題 in Wikipedia). Decreased caries (DMFT in Japan is high compared to other countries, but still it deacreased significantly over the last 30 years) and oversupply of dentists resulted in dramatic decline in dentists' salary.

As a result, the difficulty of the entry into medical school sky-rocketted. Now, top dental schools in Japan are easier to get in than lowest-tier medical schools, and even than almost all pharmacy schools. The table at the bottom (medicine, pharmacy, dentistry from left to right) basically says that in order to get into any nation-run medical school, you need to score at least 84.5 percentile in the nation-wide entrance exam, but all nation-run dental schools accept students who score below 83.5 percentile (nation-run means that you only need to pay $25,000 to become a dentist). Although not shown in the table, most private dental schools accept students below 50 percentile. To translate this concept into North American terms, students who want to go to nation-run medical school need to have have at least 3.9 GPA (maybe 3.7 for private schools), while students with 1.7-2.0 GPA can easily be accepted to dental school if they are willing to pay $600,000 tuition.

Last year, some Carribean, Polish, and Hungarian med schools started a program that cater for Japanese students. There are too many students who want to go to med school so badly in Japan. Dentistry is not considered as a good alternative any more. People would rather choose to study English and go through all the hardships to obtain an M.D. in a foreign country than going into a profession of bleak prospect. Nowadays, it is not uncommon for Japanese dental students to quit dental school, or even after they graduate from dental school, to re-apply to medical schools.

Of course, Americans value beautiful teeth much more than Japanese people do, and Japan has totally different insurance system than North America, so it would be mistaken to simply say that the dental profession in the U.S. will have the same destiny as that of Japan. However, unless dental schools decrease the number of graduating dentists according to the decrease in DMFT, it is not improbable that dentistry in other countries would also experience a similar situation to that of Japan. Japanese National Health Insurance System is like one huge HMO run by the nation, so all the Japanese citizens, including low income social strata, can receive very cheap dental care (wealthy people go to expensive dental offices that do not accept any insurance). But when even low income strata begin to have less and less cavities to begin with, dentists can never make tons of money even with HMOs because there are simply not enough patients. As a result, more and more dentists are filing bankruptcy in Japan.

Dentistry used to be an extremely lucrative profession in Japan, much like that of the U.S. today. The situation changed 180 degrees within a matter of 30 years. A similar situation may or may not happen in the U.S. in your lifetime. So the bottom line is that if you do not have any other reason you want to do dentistry than money, you may regret not choosing medicine just as most Japanese dentists do now.

(P.S. Some dentists in Japan do make a lot of money but they are exceptions. In any profession, top 5% people make tons of money, you know.)

2005センター試験　国公立（前期）　代ゼミボーダーランキング
　　　 【医学科】　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　 【薬学科】　　　【歯学科】　　　　　
93.5% 東大
93.0%
92.5%
92.0% 京大
91.5% 阪大
91.0%
90.5% 阪市 九大
90.0% 医歯 名大
89.5% 北大 東北 千葉 山梨 神戸
89.0% 筑波 横市 京府 岡山　　　　　　　　　　　　　　 　京大
88.5% 新潟 広島
88.0% 群馬 信州 浜松 三重 滋医 奈医 鳥取 徳島　　阪大
87.5% 山形 金沢 熊本
87.0% 名市 山口 香川 長崎 鹿児.　 　 　 　 　　　　　　九大 　 　 　 　 　 　 　 　　　　　　　
86.5% 福井 岐阜 高知 琉球　　　　　　　　　　　　　　 　千葉
86.0% 旭医 札医 弘前 福島 富山 和歌 愛媛
85.5% 秋田 島根　　　　　　　 　　 　　　 　　　 　　 　　　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　
85.0% 産業 大分 　 　 　 　 　 　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　東北 岡山　 　 　 　 　 　　　　　　　
84.5% 佐賀 宮崎 　 　 　 　 　 　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　北大
84.0%　　　　 　　　　　　　　　　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　金沢
83.5%　　　　 　　　　　　　　　　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　広島 熊本　　阪大
83.0%　　　　 　　　　　　　　　　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　富山 　 　 　 　 　 　 　 　　　　　　
82.5%　　　　 　　　　　　　　　　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　徳島 　 　 　　医歯 九大　　　　　　
82.0%　　　　 　　　　　　　　　　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　長崎 　 　 　　新潟 広島 徳島
81.5%　　　 　　 　　　 　　　 　　　 　　　 　　　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　東北　 　　 　　　 　　
81.0%　　　 　　 　　　 　　　 　　　 　　　 　　　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　北大 九歯　　　　　　
80.5%　　　 　　 　　　 　　　 　　　 　　　 　　　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　岡山
80.0%　　　 　　 　　　 　　　 　　　 　　　 　　　 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　長崎 鹿児　　　　
 
I agree 100% because microevolution is a zillion times faster than any other kind. The overuse of antibiotics (as you stated) is exactly what these critters need. I can't believe people think dental carries is going to be cured!!! No wizzay in hizzell my fellow enamalites! Just by opening your mouth and breathing in air you introduce millions of bacteria in your mouth; therefore you'd have to continuously apply these anti-cariogenic agents... and how many people are that motivated? Considering that periodontal disease is the most prolific disease in the history of mankind I think the dental profession is just fine.

People think that just because they brush they won't loss their teeth so they don't take care of their mucosa/ soft-tissue. That is why dental implantology is becoming a huge profession and I'm glad I currently work as a biotechnologist with the leader in computer guided implantology.

Jim
The Ohio State University College of Dentistry Class 2010


mcshow2 said:
Here is what a Dentist i know told me... True people's hygiene etc. is getting much better. This results in people keeping their teeth longer. Back in the day, if a tooth got too back or there was some infection in the mouth, they would pull the teeth and not hesitate to fit for dentures.

Now we have patients concerned with keeping their teeth, with more time comes more exposure to whatever, much higher rates for decay etc. Increased life expectancy also helps in this regard.

There will always be the lazy brushers, the poor, the uneducated etc. that will always have cavities.

(Not sure if this applies to the mouth or not- i would think it would) but with the over-prescription of antibiotics, certain strains of bacteria have become resistant and this could potentially set our bacterial treatment back 100 years.

What was the last health care profession to become obselete...?
Click to expand...
 
As someone mentioned earlier, we already have a vast army that work to prevent caries: fluroide in water, sealants, biannual checkups, FLOSS, electrical toothbrushes. If you actually stick to that routine, it's very hard to get caries already.


Yet, you still have people who won't even put in 1 minute a day to floss. My hallmate, a med student who is obviously educated and knows that floss helps prevent caries and has been proven to decrease heart disease, still doesn't floss and hasn't been to the dentist in a few years. She'll probably only go once something starts hurting. You will always have people like that, and THAT will never go away. Add to the fact that the baby boomers are also aging (hence, even more work to preserve their dentition) and ka-ching!
 
There are a lot of things more threatening to the profession than the eradication of caries.

We need to be worrying about things like the public health folks who insist there is a shortage of dentists. This just isn't true. We do NOT need to increase the number of dentists graduating.

We need to worry about the increasing intrusion of insurance companies into the dentist / patient relationship. Insurance companies and politicians have brainwashed the public into thinking that they can't afford (and shouldn't have to pay for) healthcare unless somebody else is footing the bill.

We need to worry about government programs affecting dentistry. Medicaid reimbursements are often so low that they force dentists to work at a financial loss if they choose to help medicaid patients. In turn, dentists are viewed as greedy and heartless because too few dentists accomodate medicaid patients. The solution to this problem seems simple: increase reimbursment to a minimally profitable level. But the answers always seem to be ridiculous ideas such as increasing the number of dentists or creating mid-level practitioners like the "dental therapists" in Alaska.

We need to worry about tuition levels increasing to the point that new dentists can't afford to maintain their fee schedules at a reasonable level. Or dentists being in so much debt that they feel the only way to make ends meet is by overtreating.

There are other issues facing the profession but these are the ones on the top of my list. Until we outlaw Mountain Dew and CocaCola, the eradication of tooth decay is just a pipedream.
 
Without a doubt, arteriosclerosis is dramatically influenced by the body's response to inflammatory signals such as histamines. During periodontal disease the body is severely inflamed and the histamines and white blood cells end up increasing the sclerosis part of arteriosclerosis!

-Jim
The Ohio State University College of Dentistry Class of 2010

vandy_yankee said:
As someone mentioned earlier, we already have a vast army that work to prevent caries: fluroide in water, sealants, biannual checkups, FLOSS, electrical toothbrushes. If you actually stick to that routine, it's very hard to get caries already.


Yet, you still have people who won't even put in 1 minute a day to floss. My hallmate, a med student who is obviously educated and knows that floss helps prevent caries and has been proven to decrease heart disease, still doesn't floss and hasn't been to the dentist in a few years. She'll probably only go once something starts hurting. You will always have people like that, and THAT will never go away. Add to the fact that the baby boomers are also aging (hence, even more work to preserve their dentition) and ka-ching!
Click to expand...
 
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