You don't have to have great OAT's to get in!

[nc2tarheels]

Despite what everyone says and makes you think, you do not need great OAT's to get into school. I have 4 interviews and have been accepted to one already. I used to get so discouraged by reading everyones threads about their 360 OAT's etc. No matter how hard I tried, I never could score that high. I'm a smart guy though. I'm usually the guy that studies a TON and still scores well on tests, but I definitely earn it. I started school at 18, went to a couple classes and stopped going....therefore, I have 2 or 3 F's on my transcript. I got a great optical job and worked in optical for 10 years. I decided to go back to school a couple of years ago for optometry. I applied last year with a 3.16 GPA 280 AA and a 280 TS and didn't not get one single interview. Granted, I applied to only the schools that did not require a bachelors degree, so I had heard that I would need higher OAT's in order to be considered without a bachelors. Nevertheless, I rushed and retook the OAT a second time so that I could still be considered for that cycle. I did do better in all categories but RC and my RC dropped 30 points. Therefore, my AA and TS stayed the same. Oh well.......I would try again next year (the way I looked at it was that I was a year ahead of schedule anyway since i had all pre-reqs complete and this year I would recieve my bachelors. This year, I reapplied and raised my GPA to a 3.25-3.3. I studied all of christmas break and retook the OAT for a THIRD time. My scores this time were as follows:
Bio 280
GC 310
OC 310
PHY 290
RC 280
QR 300
AA 300
TS 300

Not to sound cocky, but I have gotten 4 interviews and I have a feeling 2 more will come this week (speaking with certain admissions counselors). I wanted to encourage some of you to NOT quit. I took the OAT 3 times, and worked my ***** off! I never quit. Don't get discouraged by people that are questioning whether or not they should apply with their 330 OAT's! Don't get discouraged when people ask if they should apply with their horrible gpa of a 3.3 If you WANT this profession......go after it. I worked 40 hours a week while going to school full time and I have a 1 year old son. If that's not hard work, I don't know what is. But I DEFINITELY wasn't going to let the OAT illustrate my determination and effort. I just wanted to post this for all the people out there that aren't scoring so well.......I know there's A LOT of you. You're just like me though.....to afraid to show your scores because of the people that score so well on here. Don't let people convince you that only 3.5's and all sections of the OAT must be above 300. It IS possible!!!!

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[chocol8]

YAY!! Congrats dude, happy to read this. Sounds like you've come a long way, great job. Where did u get in??

 

[hoops123]

reading this post really gave me hope. im in the same stiuation but i still havnt written the OAT yet. i that problem with my classes i work so hard and it never pays off. im literally in the library studying 7 days a week 9-8 hrs a day. i do take breaks here and there but despite all that effort i ended up with a D in micro bio last sem, and i literally felt like i would have to give up my dream of going to opto skool. i wasnt depressed because of the D i got, as i am clearly aware about re-taking classes. What really got to me was the fact that i worked my ass of in that class and got screwed so bad, i was in shock that this happened. I am just turned 21 in my 3rd year and have never been one those ppl who things come easy 2. if a class mate of mine was spending 2 hrs over a concept, here i was doing 4 hrs on the same concept. I always knew i wasnt the "smartest" when it came to stretegic studying, i have always known that about myself because i am and have always been one of those ppl that have to try twice as hard!.. BECAUSE IM NOT "SMART" ABOUT STUDYING I SPEND DOUBLE THE AMOUNT STUDYING THAN A "NORMAL" STUDENT AND I HAVE ADAPTED TO THAT. I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH SPENDING THAT MUCH TIME STUDYING.

ITS JUST SAD BECAUSE I HAVE ALWAYS WORKED SO HARD AND IT NEVER SEEMS TO PAY OFF. THIS YEAR I WILL BE APPLYING TO OPTOMETRY SKOOL SO LETS SEE HOW IT GOES.

CONGRATS ON GETTING IN. I REALLY HOPE THINGS WORK OUT FOR ME IN THE END TOO.

 

[Bioflare]

lol these posts make me feel sad. The school I go to its really hard to get 3.0+ so OAT scores are the only thing to differentiate me.

My GPA is only ~3.0 but OAT scores were 350-360.

Congrats on the interviews =). But I think the real point is that you should apply early as possible. I've been told that with my low GPA it would be a hard for me at some schools since I applied very late (February).

Anyways for the low GPA out there, just try to raise your GPA, if not just kill your OAT's (or at least focus on areas that are subpar), they should make up for something. I have 2 Interviews to schedule, hopefully some more, but since I was late I'm thankful for getting the opportunity for 2.

Also, for OAT scores you should really strive for 300 minimum, some schools actually have cut offs unless you have a lot of experience (the OP). I think this is the case for RC since it might be an indicator of your ability to absorb information?

 

[KHE]

Despite what everyone says and makes you think, you do not need great OAT's to get into school.

Shouldn't you?

 

[nc2tarheels]

I'm just trying to give hope to some of you that don't have great scores. Of course, apply yourself and try to get the best possible scores that you can. The only reason I posted this is to show people that you don't have to have 350+ OATs. I remember scrolling through peoples scores after I had taken my OAT and it was unheard of to come across someone with a low OAT that got in. In part, that's due to the fact that schools don't take people with low OATs, but in part, it's due to people being too afraid to post their bad OAT scores. This board just makes you think that you have to have great stats.......but you don't.

 

[Bioflare]

[begin rant]
I feel that the OAT's don't actually play a big enough role. School's are still biased towards gpa requirements, and the average OAT for admittance is 310-330 if you apply early enough. Not to bash any particular undergraduate institutions, but some are harder and some are easier than others.
I've been outright rejected because of low gpa going as far to say they require 3.6 cGPA for consideration as an undergraduate. It's like saying I should have gone to a CC that I knew will get me a 4.0 and apply with a low OAT 280-300 (that's equivalent to getting 40-50% of the questions right).
What's the point of having a standardized test when you won't even consider people that do well in it?

EXAMPLE (this is made up)
4.0 GPA + 280 OAT vs 3.3 + 380 OAT (which would you think is a better candidate)
[end rant]

Back to topic, the above rant was to state that schools don't look for a HIGH OAT, if you apply early enough, you can see the early acceptances with their OAT scores in the 310-330. Check the acceptance thread and you'll see. GPA seems to be the most important, regardless if you got that grade from a CC or a state university (although some optometry colleges require a certain number of credits to be taken at a university).

 

[Hoffy]

When I interviewed, they also discussed my consistency over all. Example, are you a student with a 3.3 GPA that has had all A's and B's vs a student with a GPA that has A's and C's scattered here and there. Overall consistent performance is a factor too, not just the numbers!

 

[xeno655]

When I interviewed, they also discussed my consistency over all. Example, are you a student with a 3.3 GPA that has had all A's and B's vs a student with a GPA that has A's and C's scattered here and there. Overall consistent performance is a factor too, not just the numbers!

Yup, I definitely agree with what Hoffy said. Everything in your application (GPA, OAT, ECs) should make sense and form part of the whole. But if your GPA isn't as high as it should be, then I think having a high OAT score would help you out since it shows that you actually mastered the material or you're just really good at standardized testing haha.

 

[apollo310]

Thanks for the words of encouragement! Congrats to you on the interviews!!!

 

[ZEffect]

Shouldn't you?

 

[IndianaOD]

With all the stupid new schools all it takes to get in is a pulse.

 

[ZEffect]

.

 

[nc2tarheels]

With all the stupid new schools all it takes to get in is a pulse.

I love how current OD's are so quick to jump to conclusions. The consistency of my grades is great. Only had two C's in my entire undergrad since starting school 3.5 years ago. I will have completed a bachelors in 3.5 years, working 48 hours per week, 2 kids (one of which is 1 and the other with a medical condition). My GPA for my bachelor's is around a 3.6-3.7. I received interviews at 2 newer schools and received interviews at 5 schools that are VERY established. So try not to judge.

 

[Hoffy]

I love how current OD's are so quick to jump to conclusions. The consistency of my grades is great. Only had two C's in my entire undergrad since starting school 3.5 years ago. I will have completed a bachelors in 3.5 years, working 48 hours per week, 2 kids (one of which is 1 and the other with a medical condition). My GPA for my bachelor's is around a 3.6-3.7. I received interviews at 2 newer schools and received interviews at 5 schools that are VERY established. So try not to judge.

That's actually really impressive, I'm sure you'll do great in school! And you should be really proud of yourself too in having graduated in 3.5 years with such a high gpa and a full time job. Gosh, I had a hard time getting my regular bio degree requirements done in 4 years and my GPA is only 3.34 and I didn't work much as an undergrad. Well done!

 

[Possiblyoptomet]

With all the stupid new schools all it takes to get in is a pulse.

You got that right. I hear that it is very easy to get an interview and acceptance at the arizona and new texas schools. But then do you really want to go there? The older schools have to be better.

 

[blackhole2]

That's actually really impressive, I'm sure you'll do great in school! And you should be really proud of yourself too in having graduated in 3.5 years with such a high gpa and a full time job.

I second this; I wish I had this much swag lol.

 

[thecgrblue]

With all the stupid new schools all it takes to get in is a pulse.

Yep.

Don't get pissed at the ODs for belittling your efforts in undergrad; in no way did he say that. The standards for entrance are dropped every time more slots are opened at a new school, so get pissed at the new schools for devaluing what you have done.

See a good opportunity when it comes, eh? Well I have a pyramid scheme I'd like you to sign-up for then.

 

[thecgrblue]

You got that right. I hear that it is very easy to get an interview and acceptance at the arizona and new texas schools. But then do you really want to go there? The older schools have to be better.

I was turned off by how much one of the new schools was contacting me even though I only sent them my OAT.

 

[IndianaOD]

I am sorry but the entering GPAs for the new schools the last year or two were terrible. Once you guys get into the real world you will see how much damage oversupply and the new schools do to the profession.

 

[outsidechance]

I am sorry but the entering GPAs for the new schools the last year or two were terrible. Once you guys get into the real world you will see how much damage oversupply and the new schools do to the profession.

What were the entering gpas and OAT scores for those new schools? below 3.0 and 290 OAT?

 

[blazenmadison]

Careful what you say. I am actually attending a new school. This is not because I lack the grades by no means. I have worked hard during my undergradrate studies. I choose MWU merely because it is a good match for me and to be honest, when I see a good opportunity, I jump on it. To everyone else, choose a school that is right for you and your personal goals. If you are truly passionate about what you do, you will succeed no doubt and no matter where you come from.

I'll give MWU credit for a great basic science foundation because MWU is also a pharmacy/osteopathic school. What about your clinical externships? New schools have trouble acquiring experienced extern sites. I hope you won't be doing your clinical rotations with autorefractors and NCT workups at Walmart.

Majority of what you do in optometry is learned from hands-on clinical experience. It takes a long time for established optometry schools to work out the kinks in their externship program. These new graduates from these schools will unfortunately have the stigma that was once associated with NOVA and it will be much harder for them to find jobs.

Good luck!

 

[thecgrblue]

What were the entering gpas and OAT scores for those new schools? below 3.0 and 290 OAT?

For the 2009 Entering Class
Western: 3.11/330AA/340TS
MWU: 3.18/319AA/325AA
UIW: 3.31/328AA/332TS

IAUPR:3.1/290AA/290TS

OAT scores are pretty close to most schools (all hover around 330-350). GPA for Western and MWU are .2-.5 pts lower than other schools. UIW is very similar to NOVA and PCO for GPA.

Source: Profile of Entering 2009 Class, Assoc. of Schools and Colleges of Optometry


For 2010 they all stayed about the same. MWU increased GPA up to 3.23

*You have to note that from 2009 to 2010 entering classes (and beyond) the OAT was re-calibrated to drop scores about 10 pts across the board....meaning a 340 this year was about equal to 350 previously). You see most schools showing a similar drop in average scores between 2009 and 2010 classes




http://www.opted.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3344

 

[nc2tarheels]

Both WesternU and UIW had higher avg OAT scores than UMSL, IU, PCO, and NESU. LOL. Look at the stats, http://www.opted.org/files/public/Profile of the Entering Class 2010FINALpdf.pdf

There's not THAT big of a difference. WesternU GPA is lower, but their OAT's are higher than 1/4 of the ESTABLISHED schools.

 

[blazenmadison]

Both WesternU and UIW had higher avg OAT scores than UMSL, IU, PCO, and NESU. LOL. Look at the stats, http://www.opted.org/files/public/Profile of the Entering Class 2010FINALpdf.pdf

There's not THAT big of a difference. WesternU GPA is lower, but their OAT's are higher than 1/4 of the ESTABLISHED schools.

Not saying students with high GPAs/OATs couldn't get into established schools. But why take the chance to invest 150k worth of loans into a school that is not 'fully' accredited? The founding dean of MWU just packed his bags and left after 1 year. Sounds fishy to me...
What happens if MWU decides to close the optometry school because there is not enough faculty, money, or worse doesn't receive accreditation? Maybe you can apply for a transfer, but transferring is extremely competitive and often you will have to start all over again as a 1st year. More debt?

 

[mintyjulep]

Not saying students with high GPAs/OATs couldn't get into established schools. But why take the chance to invest 150k worth of loans into a school that is not 'fully' accredited? The founding dean of MWU just packed his bags and left after 1 year. Sounds fishy to me...
What happens if MWU decides to close the optometry school because there is not enough faculty, money, or worse doesn't receive accreditation? Maybe you can apply for a transfer, but transferring is extremely competitive and often you will have to start all over again as a 1st year. More debt?

Wow, one year? That doesn't sound good at all. I'd be terrified of spending any money at schools like MWU or Western, considering they aren't accredited yet. Plus, Western actually has the nerve to pretty much discourage Berkeley undergrads from applying by REQUIRING two semesters of inorganic (UCB undergrad science majors take one semester of inorganic and two semester of organic). They will absolutely not accept the organic as a substitute. Way to ruin potential.

 

[nc2tarheels]

Not saying students with high GPAs/OATs couldn't get into established schools. But why take the chance to invest 150k worth of loans into a school that is not 'fully' accredited? The founding dean of MWU just packed his bags and left after 1 year. Sounds fishy to me...
What happens if MWU decides to close the optometry school because there is not enough faculty, money, or worse doesn't receive accreditation? Maybe you can apply for a transfer, but transferring is extremely competitive and often you will have to start all over again as a 1st year. More debt?

No school has ever not gotten accredation when it was their time. I'm not defending the schools, I have been accepted and I'm 75% sure of my decision for the school that is accredited etc, but I'm tired of people knocking the new schools and acting like their students gpa/oats aren't that great. As if they are taking crappy students. Hell, go to the optometry forum and read where an OD is saying that a 2.5 gpa will get you in.

 

[IndianaOD]

No school has ever not gotten accredation when it was their time. I'm not defending the schools, I have been accepted and I'm 75% sure of my decision for the school that is accredited etc, but I'm tired of people knocking the new schools and acting like their students gpa/oats aren't that great. As if they are taking crappy students. Hell, go to the optometry forum and read where an OD is saying that a 2.5 gpa will get you in.

How are the new schools good for optometry in any way? There is no positive. We have previous manpower studies that predicted an oversupply through 2025. That was before the 3 new schools and the possibility of even 2 more. The current schools have also increased class sizes.

 

[nc2tarheels]

I'm responding to your comment about GPA and OAT's. At no point have I argued the fact that they are good for everyone.

 

[mintyjulep]

No school has ever not gotten accredation when it was their time.

Just a question about this statement, since I'm not particularly familiar with the whole accreditation process...if a school doesn't get accreditation "in time" for the first graduating class, does that mean that those graduates have to wait until the school is officially accredited in order to be practicing ODs? Could they be waiting years before they can actually begin practicing as licensed ODs? This might be a silly question, but I'm genuinely curious to know.

 

[blazenmadison]

Just a question about this statement, since I'm not particularly familiar with the whole accreditation process...if a school doesn't get accreditation "in time" for the first graduating class, does that mean that those graduates have to wait until the school is officially accredited in order to be practicing ODs? Could they be waiting years before they can actually begin practicing as licensed ODs? This might be a silly question, but I'm genuinely curious to know.

I'm not familiar either. On the NBEO/national licensing website it states, "The Basic Science examination is targeted for students who have completed their second professional year in a school or college of optometry accredited by the Accreditation Council on Optometric Education (ACOE) of the American Optometric Association."

Only students from ACCREDITED schools of optometry can take the board licensing exam. If you cannot take the national board licensing exam, then you will not be licensed to practice optometry.

If you go by strict definition, MWU/Western/ICW all have preliminary accreditation status. It will be interesting next year when students from those schools start the board licensing process...

 

[kftetrault]

I'm not familiar either. On the NBEO/national licensing website it states, "The Basic Science examination is targeted for students who have completed their second professional year in a school or college of optometry accredited by the Accreditation Council on Optometric Education (ACOE) of the American Optometric Association."

Only students from ACCREDITED schools of optometry can take the board licensing exam. If you cannot take the national board licensing exam, then you will not be licensed to practice optometry.

If you go by strict definition, MWU/Western/ICW all have preliminary accreditation status. It will be interesting next year when students from those schools start the board licensing process...

I want to point out some things from this thread. I am current 1st year at MWU and the class president. The previous dean left because of family issues, not anything to do with the program of the college. The current dean, Dr. Jarnigan, has around 40 years of experience and is a past AOA president. We have plenty faculty; for some reason this idea that we have no faculty is pervasive on this site. That is just incorrect. As well, MWU has successfully started 2 huge programs recently, dental and podiatry, and their programs are flourishing. Successful board pass-rates and overall strong programs. Besides, MWU just finished a multi-million dollar stand-alone Optometry clinic; to think that the opto school is just going to close is almost laughable.
But I do agree that strong OAT scores and GPA's should be a prerequisite to get into any opto school. The unfortunate fact is that, as the AOA president-elect told us last week when she visited, the number of applicants are decreasing. What needs to happen is for people to get the word out that optometry is a positive career, so people get excited about it.
As always, I would be happy to dispel any rumors or questions about MWU. I chose to go here; I am a chemical engineer who went back to school and could have gone to any school I wanted. Some people need to realize they are actually talking about real people and students on this forum.

 

[blazenmadison]

The unfortunate fact is that, as the AOA president-elect told us last week when she visited, the number of applicants are decreasing. What needs to happen is for people to get the word out that optometry is a positive career, so people get excited about it.

The number of applicants are decreasing perhaps because there is not a huge demand for optometrists. This can be found in other threads. There is an oversupply of ODs. You can get a same day non-emergency appointment in almost any town with an OD. You cannot do that with a dentist or your PCP.

Perhaps the real goal of the AOA isn't about recruiting more students. Maybe...have a 100% acceptance rate for all optometry applicants. We should never turn away anyone that wants to be an optometrist.

Let's see if you will say the same comments 4 years later. Good luck

 

[nc2tarheels]

This is funny. I wrote this originally to encourage the ones that are struggling. It seems as if only the people with great scores post on here and all I wanted to do was show that average scores (on the OAT) can get in as well. But again, we're back to current OD's bashing gpa's and oat's and placing themselves on a pedestal. Get off your soapbox. This is the PRE-opt forum and if we wanted the opinion of an optometrist that is going to bash everything, we'd come over to the OD forum.

 

[kftetrault]

This is funny. I wrote this originally to encourage the ones that are struggling. It seems as if only the people with great scores post on here and all I wanted to do was show that average scores (on the OAT) can get in as well. But again, we're back to current OD's bashing gpa's and oat's and placing themselves on a pedestal. Get off your soapbox. This is the PRE-opt forum and if we wanted the opinion of an optometrist that is going to bash everything, we'd come over to the OD forum.

I agree with your post, that current OD's should stay out of the pre-optometry forum. There is no need for them to try and discourage people to go into optometry, or to not go a certain optometry school. It seems like any post on here turns into some kind of a argument, usually from a current OD either saying the new schools are bad, or that there are too many optometrists.