Yet another Post-bacc question

[SylvieK]

I read several post-bacc posts on this forum but am still not sure about what I need to do.

I'm 30, married, no kids, live in LA. Due to my husband's job that supports us I don't have an option to move somewhere just for a post-bacc program. We will relocate if I get accepted to med school later though.

Because of my age, I'm in a hurry. I don't want to waste another month, year.
I looked into CSU Fullerton's post-bacc program(geographically pretty much only option for me) which is still accepting application for fall 2014.
They're asking to finish a calculus class as an admission requirement and I don't think I have time to finish the class in time.
I do want to apply here, and am trying to find a way to complete the calculus class.
But just in case, I want to ask you some advice on DIY prereq.

As far as I understood from the previous posts, DIY prereq wouldn't look inferior to post-bacc students to ADCOM.
As long as GPA and MCAT, EC, LOR look good, it would make no difference, correct?

Here's my question.
1. How much advising do those post-bacc program do? My guess is that if you're in those programs, an advisor who's dealt with med school admission for years would recommend you good schools to apply for based on your stats. Also, whether I'd need more extra classes or not based on my previous undergrad courses I took.

Is a meeting with an advisor also available to non-degree student at state universities?
I'm planning to do prereqs at CSU Long Beach as UC schools don't accept students with a bachelor degree.

2. It seems that most classes at CSU require prereq to register even if you're a non-degree student registering for a simple general biology class. If I have to take 3-4 prereq classes just to be able to take med school prereqs, that's a waste of time and money for me. Does anyone know about CSU system and prereq for class registration? I'm afraid that my first semester won't be, let's say, "chem1, bio1, calculus" but "intro chem, intro bio, algebra."

So advising and class registration are 2 biggest reason why I rather want to go to CSU Fullerton post-bacc program even if it's not a well established post-bacc like Bryn Mawr.
I just started this long journey and definitely lack solid advice and info.
Any comments would be helpful!

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Oh, also, can anyone kindly post a sample DIY prereq course for about 2yr including summer ?
I made one according to CSU Fullerton's program but want to compare to others as they don't offer any math/english class which I found strange and a bit unsubstantial...

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[surely]

As far as I understood from the previous posts, DIY prereq wouldn't look inferior to post-bacc students to ADCOM.
As long as GPA and MCAT, EC, LOR look good, it would make no difference, correct?

Correct!

1. How much advising do those post-bacc program do? My guess is that if you're in those programs, an advisor who's dealt with med school admission for years would recommend you good schools to apply for based on your stats. Also, whether I'd need more extra classes or not based on my previous undergrad courses I took.

My experience has been that advisors are a less useful resource than SDN by a long shot. They mean well! They're friendly! But this is what SDN lives for, you know?

Is a meeting with an advisor also available to non-degree student at state universities?
I'm planning to do prereqs at CSU Long Beach as UC schools don't accept students with a bachelor degree.

I have a hard time believing any advisor would decline you a meeting, but California schools might be more overcrowded/overwhelmed with premeds than the state schools I'm used to in MA.

2. It seems that most classes at CSU require prereq to register even if you're a non-degree student registering for a simple general biology class. If I have to take 3-4 prereq classes just to be able to take med school prereqs, that's a waste of time and money for me. Does anyone know about CSU system and prereq for class registration? I'm afraid that my first semester won't be, let's say, "chem1, bio1, calculus" but "intro chem, intro bio, algebra."

What pre-reqs are they talking about? At my school, intro chem required that you'd taken algebra. Reasonable enough. What math classes did you take at your previous institution? Can you request the opportunity to take a math placement test and place out of algebra or whatever pre-req they're asking for?

Also, some professors will happily meet with you and sign you into the class, waiving the pre-req, provided the class roster isn't full. Professors love motivated, capable adult students.

So advising and class registration are 2 biggest reason why I rather want to go to CSU Fullerton post-bacc program even if it's not a well established post-bacc like Bryn Mawr.
I just started this long journey and definitely lack solid advice and info.
Any comments would be helpful!

Spend a couple months drawing up a game plan for a DIY. Use SDN as a resource. It sounds like you're fluent with the search functionality and know where to find the FAQ. You'll quickly have a better idea of what you need to do than even some of the advisors.

Oh, also, can anyone kindly post a sample DIY prereq course for about 2yr including summer ?
I made one according to CSU Fullerton's program but want to compare to others as they don't offer any math/english class which I found strange and a bit unsubstantial...

This will really depend on what classes are being offered and what pre-reqs you still need to complete. You mention math and English. Do you not have classes in those disciplines from your previous institution?

Summer 2014: Chem 1 and 2
Fall 2014: Orgo 1, Physics 1, Bio 1
Spring 2015: Orgo 2, Physics 2, Bio 2

After that, it gets fuzzy, because the new MCAT requires (if memory serves) biochemistry, psychology, and sociology. So in summer 2015, you could take Biochem 1 and 2, if they're offered. In Fall 2015, you can take psychology and sociology while studying for the MCAT. Take MCAT in January 2016, apply in June 2016, get accepted and enroll in July 2017.

I know, 3 and a half years from now is not when you want to be starting medical school, but with the new MCAT, you're really stuck.

There's only one way to take a shortcut here: If you could somehow superhumanly teach yourself the material for the current MCAT (just biology/chemistry/orgo/physics) and take the January 2015 administration, it will be the same as the "old/pre-2015" test, and not require biochem/psych/sociology. Then you could apply in June 2015 and matriculate in July 2016, saving yourself an entire year. If I were in your position, that's what I'd try to do, armed with the MCAT prep books from The Berkeley Review. Worst case, you find yourself totally overwhelmed a few months before the test and decide that you need to go with the longer route that ends in you starting medical school in July 2017.

Good luck! Let me know if you have questions.

 

[SN12357]

I don't have any familiarity with post-baccs on the west coast so I can't really help you on that end, but I'll chime in to say it's better to take your time and make sure you're properly prepared for a single application cycle than to try and rush things and fall on your face. I know it seems like you just can't wait but really, you can. People start med school in their 40s. You're 30. You have time. If you rush to apply and don't make it, you're out a year, thousands of dollars, and a hefty emotional cost due to the stress of applying.

Pre-med advisers vary wildly in quality; I wouldn't choose a post-bacc program just because it provides advising. However if they have a track record of good advising and success for their applicants, that would be a reason to choose it. And there's definitely nothing wrong with a DIY post-bacc.

 

[SylvieK]

Thank you for your comments and especially for the detailed advice surely.
My undergrad was a music conservatory that doesn't have a regular academic system as other 4yr institutions do: it runs on a very intense 4yr of music curriculum and only require 1 English class as an elective. That's it.
I did take 1 English composition class (beginner short story) and 1 psychology class (substitute abuse) at a neighbor university during the summer just because I was interested.
Although my math and science grades were great in high school, and I'm willing to study diligently for prereqs, I don't know if an instructor would trust me enough to sign me in their class.
My high school had a very advanced curriculum and I actually learned up to calculus and 1st yr college biology/chemistry.
I am confident that I can definitely catch up in the class if they sign me in. I will have to study beforehand to refresh my memory but I wouldn't be completely spaced out like they're all speaking a foreign language.
I'm just very very worried if I have to start from college algebra and pre-general biology (if such thing exists)...

So my biggest dilemma is that I can't take a chance of deciding on DIY just to be rejected from prereq classes, which would take even longer than 3yr to finish my prereqs.
That's pretty much the first reason I'd rather want to go to post-bacc at CSU Fullerton, which also gives me a hard time because of a calculus class.

New MCAT in 2016 sounds... frustrating... Hah! I've been thinking about this route for a couple years now. Had I decided just a year early, I could've taken the old MCAT.
Thanks for the great info. I just looked up and found a link

https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/mcat-prep/1563276-old-mcat-or-new-mcat-test.html

Looks like it'll be after Jan 2015. I'm not going to be able to take it then no matter how hard I study. It's only less than a year away...
But does the new MCAT require more prereq classes for students or they just need to study some extra fields?
The 2nd link has a good point that schools might go separate ways on whether they want the old or new test score. I wonder if some schools will ask more prereqs, too.


Oh, regarding the advisor comment, I think it's just CA schools. I'm from NYC and haven't been on this side very long. But I found out that even currently registered students have hard time graduating in 4yr because of limited class space. It's all because of CA state bankruptcy and serious budget cut on education...a few weeks ago I called one school pretending I'm a currently registered non-degree student. I tried to make an appointment with a career advisor but they declined me... It might be just the "career advisor" but I have a feeling that it wouldn't be much different for academic advisor...

 

[Goro]

That is correct.

As far as I understood from the previous posts, DIY prereq wouldn't look inferior to post-bacc students to ADCOM. As long as GPA and MCAT, EC, LOR look good, it would make no difference, correct?


That, I don't know.
Here's my question.
1. How much advising do those post-bacc program do? My guess is that if you're in those programs, an advisor who's dealt with med school admission for years would recommend you good schools to apply for based on your stats. Also, whether I'd need more extra classes or not based on my previous undergrad courses I took.

My suggestion is to seek guidance from the people in the career counseling center. I'll bet they can target you to an advisor.
Is a meeting with an advisor also available to non-degree student at state universities?
I'm planning to do prereqs at CSU Long Beach as UC schools don't accept students with a bachelor degree.


You can take pre-reqs at community colleges. My suggested DIY post-bac would look like this:
1 year Bio
1 year Inorganic/Basic Chem
maybe 1 Humanities course

Summer: English or other humanities

1 year Orgo
1 year Physics
maybe 1 more Bio course (Biostats, Molecular or Cell Bio, Genetics)

Summer (optional)
1-2 Humanities courses

How's that?

Oh, also, can anyone kindly post a sample DIY prereq course for about 2yr including summer ?
I made one according to CSU Fullerton's program but want to compare to others as they don't offer any math/english class which I found strange and a bit unsubstantial...[/quote]

 

[Quik]

Aside from the ongoing advice that I receive from all of the non-trad applicants and the poster above (Thanks Goro!), the most valuable advising session I've had was sitting down with an admissions officer at my med school of choice. It was a good year plus into my post-bacc/application building process, and she was able to critique each area of my application, tell me my strengths, weaknesses, what I should focus on to improve and surprises to expect in the application cycle. Most importantly, it set a theme to focus on for the entire application. Indeed, SDN is a great resource, but you do encounter many uninformed opinions (my own included) that may be incorrect. My point here, is, even in a DIY post-bacc you can find great advisement if you look in the right places.

The 'secret' theme I discussed above, is to build an application that speaks to your qualification and commitment to a lifelong career in the service of medicine. Thus, just as important as your pre-reqs and MCAT, are the quality of your extracurriculars (volunteerism, clinical experience, leadership). It is not just the courses and MCAT date that you need to start planning now, but how you will build the rest of your application that will personify the theme above.
Best of luck to you as you figure it all out.

 

[BowBowX]

I was 29 when I started CSUF's program. Thought I was still single.. I can definitely understand the frustration you are having..

Now.. Try your best to apply for the program.. when I was enrolled, we had couple DIY students taking classes with us.. but I heard seats are really hard to get! Sometimes they have to wait another semester to take the class.. I think you should do that as a last resort.

If you really want to get into the program.. I highly recommend you set up an appointment with health advising office.. http://extension.fullerton.edu/HealthProfessions/ps_advising.aspx I think it can increase your chance of getting in. If you can't finish calculus.. talk to them.. There may be another option. Maybe take in summer or so. They are very nice, and are welling to work with students. One thing I like the program.. is that we all feel like a family.. the program director and staffs will know you in person, and support you through out the entire process.

hope this helps

 

[SylvieK]

I was 29 when I started CSUF's program. Thought I was still single.. I can definitely understand the frustration you are having..

Now.. Try your best to apply for the program.. when I was enrolled, we had couple DIY students taking classes with us.. but I heard seats are really hard to get! Sometimes they have to wait another semester to take the class.. I think you should do that as a last resort.

If you really want to get into the program.. I highly recommend you set up an appointment with health advising office.. http://extension.fullerton.edu/HealthProfessions/ps_advising.aspx I think it can increase your chance of getting in. If you can't finish calculus.. talk to them.. There may be another option. Maybe take in summer or so. They are very nice, and are welling to work with students. One thing I like the program.. is that we all feel like a family.. the program director and staffs will know you in person, and support you through out the entire process.

hope this helps

Great to hear from someone who was in the program.
Registering for classes was (and still is...) indeed my biggest concern as the registration system didn't look very promising for an open university student.
It's sort of "pay as you go" kind.
But for a few reasons, I've kind of given up on Fullerton after I wrote the original post above...although I felt like it's "mentally safer" way. It's just not very doable for me at this moment- LOR from healthcare person, calculus, chemistry class pre-req (or test).. etc.

It's interesting that you mentioned "family." I found someone on this forum who went through Fullerton some years ago and told me that there's no holding hands.
You just confirmed that it is difficult to register for classes at CSU schools. Thank you for the info. At the same time, it's very discouraging...

 

[DocWinter]

I did a DIY postbac, and the prehealth committee at my public univ. school was very helpful. Yes, they met with me at my request. They outlined a 2-year plan for me, which I followed to about 75% exactness, as I did take a couple courses from the CC to save $$.

1st year, bio1, chem 1,
Then Bio 2 chem 2,

2nd year Orgo 1, physics 1
Then Orgo 2, Physics 2.

For the 2015 MCAT you'll want biochem and social sciences also.

My DIYness, over the "official bostbac" was not an issue for my application. I was accepted without a question on my academics.

Official post-bac programs are excellent money-makers. But if you don't mind doing the legwork, you can spend some time, and hopefully with a counselor, figuring out exactly what you will need, you are just as good on your own.

Don't know a thing about CA universities. But to your #2 point, if you are comfortable with the material, seek out a CC college. They often have less stringent requirements on entering classes and will quite often let you enroll without the "intro" courses. It's your money - I have never liked when schools force you to jump through different hoops to get to the one you need.

best of luck