yet another plea for rank list assistance

[sugarplum]

I'm at my wits end trying to put my ROL together. I'd greatly appreciate assistance with ranking the following schools solely in terms of academics:

Mayo Rochester
University of Minnesota
University of Colorado
UCSF-Fresno
UCSF-East Bay
University of Texas San Antonio
University of Hawaii
OHSU
Georgetown
UCLA-Harbor
Kaiser Permanente Southern Cali

Tell me what you think guys (and gals)! Thanks!

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[Blade28]

Wow, I've interviewed at very similar programs...and I'm also torn about my rank list.

 

[SocialistMD]

Not to insult you, but I hope these aren't programs that are in your top five that you are letting others rank. You will be there for the next 5-8 years, and I think it is a bad call letting others rank them, especially based solely on the academic reputation of the program. Even if they are numbers 6+ on your list, you still should know from your interview/research of the program how strong each is academically.

I'm basing my rank list on my feel at the program and nothing more. I want an academic surgical career and applied to only academic surgical residencies. That said, some very reputed academic programs appear low on my list due to the fact that I did not feel I would mesh well there. Conversely, some not-so-strong academic programs are very high based on how comfortable I was during my interview and how much I liked the residents. Again, it's 5-8 years of my life, and I'd rather be happy than at an institution chosen based on academic reputation.

Again, I'm not insinuating that you are letting your decision be made by others, I just think that you know where you will be happier far more than the people of cyberspace, and this decision is much too important to leave in the hands of complete strangers.

 

[SteadyEddy]

Well put Socialist...I think what Sugar is getting at is which of his/her listed programs are the best academically. I think the best answer to that question lies with attendings at your institution. Many have either trained at these programs or know someone who has. Hope this helps...good fortunes with the match process.

SE

Not to insult you, but I hope these aren't programs that are in your top five that you are letting others rank. You will be there for the next 5-8 years, and I think it is a bad call letting others rank them, especially based solely on the academic reputation of the program. Even if they are numbers 6+ on your list, you still should know from your interview/research of the program how strong each is academically.

I'm basing my rank list on my feel at the program and nothing more. I want an academic surgical career and applied to only academic surgical residencies. That said, some very reputed academic programs appear low on my list due to the fact that I did not feel I would mesh well there. Conversely, some not-so-strong academic programs are very high based on how comfortable I was during my interview and how much I liked the residents. Again, it's 5-8 years of my life, and I'd rather be happy than at an institution chosen based on academic reputation.

Again, I'm not insinuating that you are letting your decision be made by others, I just think that you know where you will be happier far more than the people of cyberspace, and this decision is much too important to leave in the hands of complete strangers.

 

[friendlyfriend]

i think its a valid question. being able to ask for others' opinions is good. get opinions from multiple sources. of course academic rep is only one factor in the ranking equation.

m4 point of view:
1.UMINN
2.MAYO
3.UColorado

sounds like fun living in hawaii

 

[surg4me]

I'm at my wits end trying to put my ROL together. I'd greatly appreciate assistance with ranking the following schools solely in terms of academics:

Mayo Rochester
University of Minnesota
University of Colorado
UCSF-Fresno
UCSF-East Bay
University of Texas San Antonio
University of Hawaii
OHSU
Georgetown
UCLA-Harbor
Kaiser Permanente Southern Cali

Tell me what you think guys (and gals)! Thanks!

Hey Sugarplum,

Here's my list...I didn't interview at all of the same places as you have...so here's a partial list of what I think based on academics.
Mayo Rochester
UMinn
UColorado
UTSA
Georgetown
UCSF EastBay
UCSF Fresno

What did you think of UHawaii? Are you originally from there? How were the interviews? I haven't heard anything from there until last week on the interview trail. One of the residents from UHawaii is now at Chicago Medical. Is it an academic place? How would you compare it to Eastbay, Fresno, UTSA, and Georgetown?

 

[sugarplum]

Not to insult you, but I hope these aren't programs that are in your top five that you are letting others rank. You will be there for the next 5-8 years, and I think it is a bad call letting others rank them, especially based solely on the academic reputation of the program. Even if they are numbers 6+ on your list, you still should know from your interview/research of the program how strong each is academically.

I'm basing my rank list on my feel at the program and nothing more. I want an academic surgical career and applied to only academic surgical residencies. That said, some very reputed academic programs appear low on my list due to the fact that I did not feel I would mesh well there. Conversely, some not-so-strong academic programs are very high based on how comfortable I was during my interview and how much I liked the residents. Again, it's 5-8 years of my life, and I'd rather be happy than at an institution chosen based on academic reputation.

Again, I'm not insinuating that you are letting your decision be made by others, I just think that you know where you will be happier far more than the people of cyberspace, and this decision is much too important to leave in the hands of complete strangers.

I completely agree with you, SocialistMD, that no one should solely use others' opinions as the basis for choosing a residency. However, please don't think that I'm not quite so capricious as to allow the suggestions of others to supersede all other factors and dictate my final ROL. As I'm sure every single one of us has, I have researched every program exhaustively and checked out their facilities and milieu during the interview visit. Additionally, as SteadyEddy astutely advised, I have discussed with my attendings the strengths of the programs I'll be ranking. However, while I value their recommendations, I can't help but think that some of their perceptions about certain programs may be due to personal bias, intentional or not. While I am confident how I will rank some programs, particularly those at the top of my list, there are too many programs that, when taking into consideration my research of the program, thoughts from attendings, interview and location, are pretty even with each other.

Which is why I have enlisted the assistance of the sdn posters. Sure there are the nonsensical and belligerent posts, but I mostly feel that this site offers thoughtful commentary on various programs and the general application process, which is why sdn is such a valuable resource to all of us. In soliciting advice from this forum, I hoped to secure various views of the strengths of programs which I could then perhaps use in the overall number designation.

So... that said, you wanna appraise me of your thoughts on the programs I originally listed? I've read several of your other posts in other threads and feel that your dialogue most definitely falls into the thoughtful category.

 

[sugarplum]

i think its a valid question. being able to ask for others' opinions is good. get opinions from multiple sources. of course academic rep is only one factor in the ranking equation.

m4 point of view:
1.UMINN
2.MAYO
3.UColorado

Thanks, friendlyfriend!

 

[sugarplum]

Hey Sugarplum,

Here's my list...I didn't interview at all of the same places as you have...so here's a partial list of what I think based on academics.
Mayo Rochester
UMinn
UColorado
UTSA
Georgetown
UCSF EastBay
UCSF Fresno

What did you think of UHawaii? Are you originally from there? How were the interviews? I haven't heard anything from there until last week on the interview trail. One of the residents from UHawaii is now at Chicago Medical. Is it an academic place? How would you compare it to Eastbay, Fresno, UTSA, and Georgetown?

Hi, surg4me! Thanks for taking the time to give me your input.

I was actually pleasantly surprised with the UHawaii experience, despite being pimped by one of the interviewers. What I gathered from talking to the residents is that you get a lot of exposure to a variety of cases, and the result at the end of the residency is a highly qualified and competent surgeon. The residents were very nice, seemed happy, and readily shared their thoughts on the program and living in Hawaii. The only concerns I have at this juncture are the rumors of the insanely early rounding times and overwork/shorthandedness of residents, and the cost of living there (although it isn't nearly as bad as some places such as the Bay area, with respect to home prices). UTSA seems the strongest academically, between UHawaii, Georgetown, UTSA, UCSF Fresno and UCSF East Bay (at least from what I read about the programs and the feeling I got from the interviews). However, after that, it's really a toss up, and the reason for my original post.

Thanks again, surg4me!

 

[SocialistMD]

...I can't help but think that some of their perceptions about certain programs may be due to personal bias, intentional or not.

This is the reason I do not feel anyone here has anything of substance to offer. Everyone will bring with him or her a personal bias in evaluating a program. You could ask 10 different people to rank, in terms of academics, Duke, Wash U, Pitt, Michigan and UAB, and would get 10 different answers. My point is, if I were going to take advice on something I knew to be subjective, I would not ask complete strangers, but depend on people whose opinions I respect based on my personal knowledge of them and who are more immersed in the process and have a more historical knowledge (such as your attendings, surgical education coordinator, etc...) of these programs. They know programs, they know you and they can tell you what programs would be best for you.

To answer your question, I cannot offer an informed opinion on many of the programs you've listed because I have only looked into one of them (Minnesota). Obviously Mayo has a huge name, so I assume that came from something. I know Minnesota is a strong academic program as well. Also, I hear San Antonio is trying to build itself into an academic power, but I do not think it is there yet.

I really do not hope anything I have offered has any bearing on your decision because almost everything I have said is heresay. Furthermore, I am the only one here who mentioned on what my "opinion" is based; everyone else simply threw up a rank list without any qualifications. You have no idea as to the basis of their rankings. That's why I do not see the utility of these types of questions, but that's just me...

 

[ADT]

For the info of all, UT-San Antonio is now a 7 year program with mandatory research. A new chairman, Dr. Cohn just came on board with some lofty ideas...It will be interesting to see how they fare in the match, as I don't think UTSA has the rep needed for 2 extra years.