Yes as an EM doc, money is more important to me than serving underserved

[YoungEMdoc]

those group of population is just waste of our taxpayers money anyway. Screw teamhealth. We all should demand 400 per hour at least. Not happy to see fake sick people for less than 200 per hour. Sad. Even donald trump the fake news a$$ gets more respect

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[gamerEMdoc]

You probably shouldn’t have become a physician. I’m not saying its all about the money, but providing healthcare to the underserved is a reason that EM is actually a valuable specialty to society. We are both the frontline of healthcare but also the safety net of the entire healthcare system where people can go if they have nowhere else to turn. For those that don’t like that, they probably should not have gone into EM. That’s just a big part of the field. And something we should actually take pride in. Obviously frustrating at times, and taken advantage of, but it is one of the reasons our specialty is EXTREMELY valuable to the entire healthcare system as a whole.

 

[DO3]

Can we get this guy gone already?

 

[YoungEMdoc]

You probably shouldn’t have become a physician. I’m not saying its all about the money, but providing healthcare to the underserved is a reason that EM is actually a valuable specialty to society. We are both the frontline of healthcare but also the safety net of the entire healthcare system where people can go if they have nowhere else to turn. For those that don’t like that, they probably should not have gone into EM. That’s just a big part of the field. And something we should actually take pride in. Obviously frustrating at times, and taken advantage of, but it is one of the reasons our specialty is EXTREMELY valuable to the entire healthcare system as a whole.

I could work in the academy or community hospital. sick and tired of dealing with folks that don't deserve to waste tax payers money. At least bump our salaries to 500 per hour then we can talk

 

[gro2001]

Don't feed the troll, people

 

[MechEDoc]

I think despite the crassness of the post, there is value in the message. Society does a terrible job with enabling the poor to over utilize resources (EMTA) leading to abuse of emergency department, irreconcilable demands on a physician's time (resuscitate, save lives all while seeing non-emergent convenient care type complaints with high levels"customer" satisfaction). It's true, most of the patients in an emergency department shouldn't be there, but we have had terrible resource allocation in the US health care system for decades. The patients are making a very rational decision to present for care as it is convenient and free!

If we truly saw emergent type patients and got paid for all the work we do, we'd likely be getting paid quite well...

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I think despite the crassness of the post, there is value in the message. Society does a terrible job with enabling the poor to over utilize resources (EMTA) leading to abuse of emergency department, irreconcilable demands on a physician's time (resuscitate, save lives all while seeing non-emergent convenient care type complaints with high levels"customer" satisfaction). It's true, most of the patients in an emergency department shouldn't be there, but we have had terrible resource allocation in the US health care system for decades. The patients are making a very rational decision to present for care as it is convenient and free!

If we truly saw emergent type patients and got paid for all the work we do, we'd likely be getting paid quite well...

But we'd need far fewer EPs in that system.

 

[MechEDoc]

But we'd need far fewer EPs in that system.

Agreed, most of us would be out of work!

 

[deleted941485]

I could work in the academy or community hospital. sick and tired of dealing with folks that don't deserve to waste tax payers money. At least bump our salaries to 500 per hour then we can talk

As much as people decry this attitude, I think there are plenty of docs out there working day in and out that probably feel the same way.

This attitude is more of an inevitability of being in an under appreciated specialty.

 

[emergentmd]

I have found in my years working EM, director of a busy EM that there are always unhappy people no matter how good they have it. Be doctors (across all specialties), nurses, etc. Surgeons, hospitalist are 10x bigger complainers than EM docs.

Would I be all for making $500/hr, Absolutely. Do I think getting paid $200/hr for out work is fair, absolutely.

People decry EMTALA and overuse of the ER but from my purely selfish point of view this was the best thing for EM docs.

If EMTALA wasn't a thing or if we refuse care to UC type stuff, many hospitals would shut down. We would need 24 hr EM coverage for the vast majority of hospitals. We would need about 1/4 of EM docs that we have now getting paid $125/hr just because there will be someone needing to pay the bills.

Call me selfish, but these UC softballs getting paid $200/hr being able to work in most places is exceedingly better than seeing complicated Curveballs all day getting paid $125/hr. If you think EM docs won't take 125/hr, then you are kidding yourself. Bills need to be paid, what else are most of us going to do?

 

[YoungEMdoc]

I have found in my years working EM, director of a busy EM that there are always unhappy people no matter how good they have it. Be doctors (across all specialties), nurses, etc. Surgeons, hospitalist are 10x bigger complainers than EM docs.

Would I be all for making $500/hr, Absolutely. Do I think getting paid $200/hr for out work is fair, absolutely.

People decry EMTALA and overuse of the ER but from my purely selfish point of view this was the best thing for EM docs.

If EMTALA wasn't a thing or if we refuse care to UC type stuff, many hospitals would shut down. We would need 24 hr EM coverage for the vast majority of hospitals. We would need about 1/4 of EM docs that we have now getting paid $125/hr just because there will be someone needing to pay the bills.

Call me selfish, but these UC softballs getting paid $200/hr being able to work in most places is exceedingly better than seeing complicated Curveballs all day getting paid $125/hr. If you think EM docs won't take 125/hr, then you are kidding yourself. Bills need to be paid, what else are most of us going to do?

$125 per hour. are you F**king kidding me? even FM physicians and ortho PA's make that much in some places. Are you kiddding me...? Since I am single if I im in a hospital with all model looking nurses that want to play with me all night after each shift (most nurses are sluttly as heck), then I would do that for maybe two years .... after going through all of them a few times... I am outta there

 

[gamerEMdoc]

$125 per hour. are you F**king kidding me? even FM and ortho PA's make that much in some places. Are you kiddding me...? Since I am single if I im in a hospital with all model looking nurses that want to play with me all night after each shift (most nurses are sluttly as heck), then I would do that for maybe two years .... after going through all of them a few times... I am outta there

seriously can we be done with this account

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

I think despite the crassness of the post, there is value in the message. Society does a terrible job with enabling the poor to over utilize resources (EMTA) leading to abuse of emergency department, irreconcilable demands on a physician's time (resuscitate, save lives all while seeing non-emergent convenient care type complaints with high levels"customer" satisfaction). It's true, most of the patients in an emergency department shouldn't be there, but we have had terrible resource allocation i

Yeah true. Also the mods better lock this troll account considering how quick they are to lock good posts which are off topic.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

As for the idea that EM should only be for critically ill patients, that argument has never made sense. There is already a field for taking care of the critically ill, its critical care medicine. What makes us special is that we can take care of the acutely and critically ill patients, while at the same time seeing a broad scope of other acute care medical complaints across all specialties.

 

[emergentmd]

Ill feed the troll one more time, but yeah we all would be paid at $125/hr. You may very well be rich enough or have other income avenues and not do it, but the majority of EM docs do not and thus would do it for $125/hr. There is nothing special about EM or any other specialty. Increase the supply or decrease the demand of any Job and it goes down.

If tomorrow God created 10,000 Lebron James with the exact same skill set, Most NBA players would be be begging for a job making $200K/yr.

 

[deleted941485]

Ill feed the troll one more time, but yeah we all would be paid at $125/hr. You may very well be rich enough or have other income avenues and not do it, but the majority of EM docs do not and thus would do it for $125/hr. There is nothing special about EM or any other specialty. Increase the supply or decrease the demand of any Job and it goes down.

If tomorrow God created 10,000 Lebron James with the exact same skill set, Most NBA players would be be begging for a job making $200K/yr.

Or just retrain. Or Don’t work as hard. Don’t teach your replacements.

Money isn’t everything but it’s definitely most things lol.

This young buck is part of the new generation that will have the rug pulled out from under him

 

[Birdstrike]

I could work in the academy or community hospital. sick and tired of dealing with folks that don't deserve to waste tax payers money. At least bump our salaries to 500 per hour then we can talk

Doubt this person is even a doc. Either not a doc or posting while wasted. He'll pop back up with a new screen name on his next binge.

 

[emergentmd]

Or just retrain. Or Don’t work as hard. Don’t teach your replacements.

Money isn’t everything but it’s definitely most things lol.

This young buck is part of the new generation that will have the rug pulled out from under him

Again, some people would be able/willing to do it but many will not and take the $125/hr job.

If you have debt, family with kids and tomorrow all rates drop to $125/hr, then what are you going to do?

Retrain? As what? Another speciality? Another field completely that likely will not make $125/hr? Who is going to pay your mortgage or feed your family?

Don't work as hard? Sure, most likely would not but then they will find another who will work harder for $125. In time you will work hard to keep this job.

There is a reason rates are dropping and so is demand. Its call the increase in supply.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Doctors get paid because there are strict requirements to practice medicine which limits supply. If there is a surplus you don’t get paid because your work isn’t as valuable.

If the ER was only opening during the daytime we would make less money.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Doctors get paid because there are strict requirements to practice medicine which limits supply. If there is a surplus you don’t get paid because your work isn’t as valuable.

If the ER was only opening during the daytime we would make less money.

If the ER was only open during the daytime Id have to find something else to do that allows me to stay up all night!

 

[deleted941485]

Again, some people would be able/willing to do it but many will not and take the $125/hr job.

If you have debt, family with kids and tomorrow all rates drop to $125/hr, then what are you going to do?

Retrain? As what? Another speciality? Another field completely that likely will not make $125/hr? Who is going to pay your mortgage or feed your family?

Don't work as hard? Sure, most likely would not but then they will find another who will work harder for $125. In time you will work hard to keep this job.

There is a reason rates are dropping and so is demand. Its call the increase in supply.

Retrain in another specialty. The opportunity cost get low enough it might actual become worth it.

Yeah don’t work as hard - if you don’t work as hard then there is less supply.

Stop training your replacements - that includes residents as well as DNPs and PAs.

You can only beat a horse so many times. Let the admin tell you about how you aren’t a team player...call their bluff. It costs them money every time a physician turns over.

 

[emergentmd]

Retrain in another specialty. The opportunity cost get low enough it might actual become worth it.

Yeah don’t work as hard - if you don’t work as hard then there is less supply.

Stop training your replacements - that includes residents as well as DNPs and PAs.

You can only beat a horse so many times. Let the admin tell you about how you aren’t a team player...call their bluff. It costs them money every time a physician turns over.

Just my opinion but I think you overestimate your value. When I say you, I mean all of our Value.

Again, some may be able to but most are in their 30-50's with a mortgage and family to support. If not doing something medicine related, i would have no clue what I would do to make 125/hr.

Going back to residency and retrain? Only a sliver would do this. I would rather go cut grass than go back to what I remember as residency and put my family through the stress with likely a divorce around the corner.

Good luck not training your replacements. We all are Cogs that is easily replaced. Don't think so? Go to your director and tell them you are not going to do their metrics, not do the press ganey crap, or dress in the department scrubs. If you think that you are so valuable, you are sorely mistaken.

 

[deleted941485]

Just my opinion but I think you overestimate your value. When I say you, I mean all of our Value.

Again, some may be able to but most are in their 30-50's with a mortgage and family to support. If not doing something medicine related, i would have no clue what I would do to make 125/hr.

Going back to residency and retrain? Only a sliver would do this. I would rather go cut grass than go back to what I remember as residency and put my family through the stress with likely a divorce around the corner.

Good luck not training your replacements. We all are Cogs that is easily replaced. Don't think so? Go to your director and tell them you are not going to do their metrics, not do the press ganey crap, or dress in the department scrubs. If you think that you are so valuable, you are sorely mistaken.

Speak for yourself bud

This is Just my opinion but your sorry opinion of yourself is probably the reason your forced taking a job you don't like at crappy pay. It wouldnt lead me to the conclusion that everyone is overvalued.

You on UHCs take or something? What does it benefit anyone to think the way you do?

 

[deleted109597]

Yeah, ignoring the obvious troll, the value statement is the one that always intrigues me the most.
Sure, I'll work very, very infrequently for less than $200 an hour. Like the place I'm at today, which is basically a low volume urgent care. 1% admit rate, I've seen 7 in 9 hours.
But the places that should pay $300 or more often don't. It's why rural shops don't get docs.

 

[emergentmd]

Speak for yourself bud

This is Just my opinion but your sorry opinion of yourself is probably the reason your forced taking a job you don't like at crappy pay. It wouldnt lead me to the conclusion that everyone is overvalued.

You on UHCs take or something? What does it benefit anyone to think the way you do?

Not sure why you are so angry. I did preface it with YOU being many/most EM docs or any doc in General. But if you are one of the special ones who can do something that is better good for you. I am far enough in my career that I could live off my savings and do urgent care pay but Many can not.

If you really think what I am saying is false, then you have your head in the sand or just plain IGNORANT. I assume the later.

Just look at what has happened in the Texas Market. 3 yrs ago, the couldn't find docs to work some of the crappy sites for less than $325/hr plus Bonus. All the docs who worked at these sites, including me, did not pick up a shift unless it had a 2K bonus attached. There were MANY shifts left even with the 2k Bonus that they had to up it to 4k/10 hr shift.

Now, these same sites with the same crappy problems are being paid $250/hr and there are docs lined up to work this job b/c supply has greatly increased.

There is always a magic number to get coverage and when there are more docs, that number goes down.

 

[Siggy]

(Taking the original message at face value)

It's a catch-22 of a problem. If you're in this for the money, it's a terrible field. On other other hand, I don't think my rent or student loan payment accepts "good will" as payment.

Also no one else expects to work for free. The nurses don't take a pay cut based on their payer mix. The medical supply companies don't give their supplies for free to the hospital if they're used on the uninsured. Skip out on paying your insurance premium and see how long you remain insured.

However doctors and hospitals are fair game to not pay.

This all said, these aren't new issues. We all should have known about this prior to taking the MCAT.

 

[takeurmeds02]

I think despite the crassness of the post, there is value in the message. Society does a terrible job with enabling the poor to over utilize resources (EMTA) leading to abuse of emergency department, irreconcilable demands on a physician's time (resuscitate, save lives all while seeing non-emergent convenient care type complaints with high levels"customer" satisfaction). It's true, most of the patients in an emergency department shouldn't be there, but we have had terrible resource allocation in the US health care system for decades. The patients are making a very rational decision to present for care as it is convenient and free!

If we truly saw emergent type patients and got paid for all the work we do, we'd likely be getting paid quite well...

Society does an amazing job at enabling everyone, not just the poor. It's not uncommon in the community to see people with amazing insurance who come in with a mild cold, couldn't wait to see their PCP on Monday, and the urgent care was closed. All the while, none of these entities can do anything about it anyway but tell them to grab some flonase and cough syrup at Walgreens.

 

[qwerty89]

Ill feed the troll one more time, but yeah we all would be paid at $125/hr. You may very well be rich enough or have other income avenues and not do it, but the majority of EM docs do not and thus would do it for $125/hr. There is nothing special about EM or any other specialty. Increase the supply or decrease the demand of any Job and it goes down.

If tomorrow God created 10,000 Lebron James with the exact same skill set, Most NBA players would be be begging for a job making $200K/yr.

Bingo

When the rads job market took a nose dive around 6-8 ish years ago people were doing second fellowships in order to stay in their desired geographic location. The State of the Radiology Job Market

Others took nighthawk jobs with crappy schedules and crappy pay.

Now the market is hot because supply is relatively steady (# of graduating residents is up only slightly year over year) and yet volume continues to increase dramatically.

Offers for 12+ weeks vacation and 500k salaries are not uncommon in the midwest.

Its all supply and demand.

Just ask graduating radonc residents about it (the specialty that doubled its residency spots over just 15 years from around 100 to 200+).

When push comes to shove most will continue to work.

Which is also why its important to save early in your career.

 

[homebaseddad112818]

Society does an amazing job at enabling everyone, not just the poor. It's not uncommon in the community to see people with amazing insurance who come in with a mild cold, couldn't wait to see their PCP on Monday, and the urgent care was closed. All the while, none of these entities can do anything about it anyway but tell them to grab some flonase and cough syrup at Walgreens.

Being entitled with my own money is vastly different than entitled with everyone else’s money. Your comparison is not a respectable way to look at the problems the original poster highlighted.

 

[gutonc]

Being entitled with my own money is vastly different than entitled with everyone else’s money. Your comparison is not a respectable way to look at the problems the original poster highlighted.

Dude...the OP was a straight-up troll. He wasn't "highlighting problems", he was being a f***ing douche-canoe.

 

[deleted109597]

Dude...the OP was a straight-up troll. He wasn't "highlighting problems", he was being a f***ing douche-canoe.

QFT.
Also, for appropriate use of one of my favorite insults.
For the record, he was also an asshat.

 

[gutonc]

QFT.
Also, for appropriate use of one of my favorite insults.
For the record, he was also an asshat.

Hat or clown? Also, canoe or bagel?

 

[deleted109597]

Hat. I like it better because of the visual.
I've never used bagel before. It doesn't roll off the tongue as well. Maybe it's a New England thing?

 

[homebaseddad112818]

Dude...the OP was a straight-up troll. He wasn't "highlighting problems", he was being a f***ing douche-canoe.

I recognize he was. Still doesn’t mean the response wasn’t sanctimonious and ridiculous.

 

[deleted480308]

Hat. I like it better because of the visual.
I've never used bagel before. It doesn't roll off the tongue as well. Maybe it's a New England thing?

A$$ or douche bagel?

 

[Birdstrike]

Yeah, he was a total bieber. Seemed like a little bit of a salboo, too. Might even qualify as a borderline, gafnimit in training. God bless his heart, that little chaiwat. I hope he gets better.

 

[takeurmeds02]

Being entitled with my own money is vastly different than entitled with everyone else’s money. Your comparison is not a respectable way to look at the problems the original poster highlighted.

It's still an over-utilization of resources and physician time regardless if it's your own money through a private insurer. Your point is tangential to what I'm saying which is that we have an entitlement problem across the board that serves no one in the end.

 

[deleted314957]

those group of population is just waste of our taxpayers money anyway. Screw teamhealth. We all should demand 400 per hour at least. Not happy to see fake sick people for less than 200 per hour. Sad. Even donald trump the fake news a$$ gets more respect

Leave.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[BoardingDoc]

Leave.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The troll has already been banned.

 

[SamtheWise]

1/10 attempt at trolling, sad because a similar but better attempt at trolling with this topic could have been quite successful. Pit the bleeding heart academics who believe emergency care is a human right against the cold hearted money hungry community docs who believe that there should be no sandwiches in an ED so as to avoid encouraging homeless people to come in with 'Chest pain'. Better luck with the next burner account 'YoungEMdoc'.

Better topics to successfully troll this crowd:

"Stress tests? In my shop we're going to stop doing them"
"Meal trays for the homeless?"
"Scott Weingart, hero or villain"
"Pelvic exams in first trimester vaginal bleeds? Whats the point"
"Ultrasound guided nerve blocks are the best pain control"

 

[deleted859535]

Motion to close this useless thread.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Motion to close this useless thread.

seconded

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Done.