Yes, another low GPA thread. Help please

[ewKinematics]

I looked everywhere on these forums for this particular question and didn't see anything so forgive me if it actually is out there somewhere. So I have a bachelors degree, with a 3.37 cumulative GPA. The problem is my math and science GPA is pretty atrocious (like really below 3.0) My first two years were a nightmare and although I repeated the bio and ochem (and got As), it's still pretty atrocious! I see a lot of people saying to retake every class you get a low grade in at a CC and get As. I'm assuming adcoms would see this in a positive light, but what if your numbers are still bad because they're averaging ALL of your grades without any grade forgiveness/replacement??? So, if a pharmacy school has a minimum sGPA requirement of 3.2, and I'm rollin with 2.75 or something because the school decided to average everything (rather than just looking at my new grades from repeated courses which would be like a 4.0 for example) am I essentially screwed forever? Am I missing something here? Would a 91% PCAT help me at all? My grades are going to haunt me forever aren't they? Assistance please!

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[SparkLy09]

Er, quite honestly, I don't think retaking every class at a CC to get an A is really wise. If it's your only choice, then I guess you have to do what you have to do but it really looks like you're taking the easy way out especially if you were still enrolled at uni and then repeated classes at a CC.

Your CGPA is fine, so I'd just work on taking a few upper level sciences and acing them. Assuming your 91 PCAT includes high subscores in the sciences, it should help balance it out a bit, of course it depends on the school.

If anything, there's always schools like USN that have academic forgiveness that you can try

 

[ewKinematics]

The thing is I already graduated from the university, but the ones I repeated were repeated at that school not a CC. If I repeat anything now, it would have to be at a CC or through extension or summer school at a 4 year university. I did get As (the first time) in anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry, but first year bio, calculus, and then o-chem I had to repeat so those averaged grades really brought me down. As far as all of the other nonscience pre-pharmacy pre-reqs I got As. If I take more "advanced" science classes (at a CC..like genetics or something) and do well..would it help? I know they like an upward trend. My pharmcas gpa would still be low because of lack of grade forgiveness. Bah.

I will be applying to USN but it seems they're the only school who do replacements. I know Xavier may have used to but I'm pretty sure they don't anymore.

 

[phathead]

Honestly going to a CC to 'improve' your previous grades will greatly hurt your application. There will be generally no benefit to it, even though in some areas CCs are looked at as highly as 4 year unis.

I got in with a sub 2.7 GPA as I was in a similar boat as you, but I busted my ass in every single science class after that. It can be done...

 

[SparkLy09]

If your CC offers upper level classes, then like I said, you do what you have to do and just take them. But if you're able to do it through a 4 year school, well, opt for the 4 year IF you can. It's good that you repeated at the same school though, it'd look pretty bad if you were concurrently enrolled in the 4 yr and CC and took all your "hard" courses at the CC.

Some schools also take into consideration the last x number of credits so an upward trend will definitely help. Like I said before, your cGPA is fine, do what you can to take other sci courses to fully help that sGPA and you'll be in fine shape assuming the rest of your app is up to par.

 

[ewKinematics]

Honestly going to a CC to 'improve' your previous grades will greatly hurt your application. There will be generally no benefit to it, even though in some areas CCs are looked at as highly as 4 year unis.

I got in with a sub 2.7 GPA as I was in a similar boat as you, but I busted my ass in every single science class after that. It can be done...

It makes me sad that there are some schools out there that consider CC classes to be at the same difficulty as courses at a four year school. My GPA was getting a beat down having to take a year's worth of physics and 4 quarters of calculus, but I digress. I plan on just taking just about any "advanced" science class I can get my hands on this upcoming spring and summer (I'm applying for 2012 assuming those Mayans were wrong about the future of this planet ). I guess what I'm getting at is there's a handful of schools that want a really high pre-req and/or math+science GPA but that sucks! I can't fix those lower level science classes anymore. I'm basically getting a 2.0 for those because they're averaging it. Upward trend or not, wouldn't schools just weed me out if they're pre-screening based on numbers alone?

EDIT: Before the CC kids attack me, science is science, but some CCs are a bit...easy!

 

[qmoto]

It makes me sad that some people out there think CC classes are all "easy". I was happy to see the edit but in all honesty unless you have personally taken all the science classes at all CC's that are included in your "easy" list, then I would have to say you are incorrect sir.

Also if you really did read through a lot of the low gpa posts on here I think you would not have asked if a 91% PCAT score would help you. Good luck though!

 

[Passion4Sci]

Not much else to contribute here except that neither CC nor 4 year school can have characterized and generalized "hardness." It depends solely on the level that your given instructor demands of the class. You can have an Orgo II class at a local CC taught by a hard-nosed, experienced instructor and the entire class of other-wise fantastic students being beaten down. You can also have an A&P course at a top ranked, West-Coast "IVY" and have 82% of the class get As in both lecture and lab because there's grade buffers and easy instructors to inflate grades.

That is why I abhor these generalizations. I've had the... unique... opportunity to attend 2 top ranked universities and receive degrees from both, and take classes at 3 CCs in California. One HUGE difference between CC and 4 year school is class size. At each CC, the classes were much smaller, affording more personal time with the instrucor to explain concepts, etc, and this was particularly beneficial in laboratory sections.

To each his own but I think your denigrating tone (e.g., "cc kids") is immature and quite faulty.

Also, the PCAT is scored on a percentile basis. Your score is compared to the other people that took the exam. For example, if you scored a composite 91, then your score was better than 91% of the people that took it with you, (or in the last X tests), meaning it is a score in the 91st percentile. A small error, but for someone with your academic pedigree (after all, you can pass judgment on "cc kids", right?), I expect more.

 

[ewKinematics]

I don't consider referring to a group of students who attend community college as "cc kids" as disparaging as you believe. Is it because I used the term "kids?" Don't mean that in reference to them being immature or something. I call everyone that. Sorry my choice of words aren't up to your standards. I also never said that all community college classes everywhere are easy. I didn't make that generalization. I said science is science..and that yes in some schools some classes are easier. Have I taken easy science courses in a university where there are a lot of As? Yes I have. Have I seen organic chemistry tests at my local community college all being multiple choice and exactly the same as the study guides? Yes I have. Am I saying it's like this everywhere? No. I've read about low GPAs and PCATs on here and vice versa. All I was asking is about getting weeded out solely on scores regardless of any upward trend, re-takes, etc. You guys are a riot.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I don't consider referring to a group of students who attend community college as "cc kids" as disparaging as you believe. Is it because I used the term "kids?" Don't mean that in reference to them being immature or something. I call everyone that. Sorry my choice of words aren't up to your standards. I also never said that all community college classes everywhere are easy. I didn't make that generalization. I said science is science..and that yes in some schools some classes are easier. Have I taken easy science courses in a university where there are a lot of As? Yes I have. Have I seen organic chemistry tests at my local community college all being multiple choice and exactly the same as the study guides? Yes I have. Am I saying it's like this everywhere? No. I've read about low GPAs and PCATs on here and vice versa. All I was asking is about getting weeded out solely on scores regardless of any upward trend, re-takes, etc. You guys are a riot.

It makes me sad that there are some schools out there that consider CC classes to be at the same difficulty as courses at a four year school

While you might think that there are some easy classes at 4 year schools too, it's quite apparent that you hold some sort of disdain for CCs, or buy into the generalization that they're easier.

If you didn't, there'd be no reason for that statement up there in size +7 font, now would there? Nope.

On your original point, ignoring your blatant anti-CC trolling, upward trends are not going to be overlooked at all, especially if that upward trend is shown to have been achieved with rigorous coursework.

 

[ewKinematics]

91 composite. sheesh. Thanks for pointing out my blatant community college trolling. Should we also drill the person who suggested re-taking classes at a community college would be considered "taking the easy way out" or the one who said there are some schools who value community college as "highly" as a four year university? How come when people post questions on here they're asked "did you go to a community college or a four year?" I didn't say every school was easy for crying out loud. Quote and increase font size all you want. I knew someone was going to go bananas the minute I say anything about community college. Thanks for your thoughts on upward trends. I'm not one to judge here with my sub par grades and apparent poor choice of words anyway.

 

[owlegrad]

While you might think that there are some easy classes at 4 year schools too, it's quite apparent that you hold some sort of disdain for CCs, or buy into the generalization that they're easier.

If you didn't, there'd be no reason for that statement up there in size +7 font, now would there? Nope.

On your original point, ignoring your blatant anti-CC trolling, upward trends are not going to be overlooked at all, especially if that upward trend is shown to have been achieved with rigorous coursework.

Much better Sci, for a moment I was afraid we were gonna start having meaningful conversations. This is more like it.

 

[Passion4Sci]

91 composite. sheesh. Thanks for pointing out my blatant community college trolling. Should we also drill the person who suggested re-taking classes at a community college would be considered "taking the easy way out" or the one who said there are some schools who value community college as "highly" as a four year university? How come when people post questions on here they're asked "did you go to a community college or a four year?" I didn't say every school was easy for crying out loud. Quote and increase font size all you want. I knew someone was going to go bananas the minute I say anything about community college. Thanks for your thoughts on upward trends. I'm not one to judge here with my sub par grades and apparent poor choice of words anyway.

Praytell, why does it make you "sad" that schools might value CC credits as they would 4 year credits?

 

[Passion4Sci]

Much better Sci, for a moment I was afraid we were gonna start having meaningful conversations. This is more like it.

Gotta keep it real, my man.

 

[owlegrad]

Praytell, why does it make you "sad" that schools might value CC credits as they would 4 year credits?

Look we all know that CC's teach the world is flat, heat is a substance, and heavier objects fall faster. The only mystery is how "we" CCers get into pharmacy school.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Look we all know that CC's teach the world is flat, heat is a substance, and heavier objects fall faster. The only mystery is how "we" CCers get into pharmacy school.

Yeah you're right.

Did you guys get the lesson about how miasma causes disease? That germ theory guy was WHACK.

 

[ewKinematics]

Well sir, because at my school we had lab reports as long as novels for each and every lab we ever did due two days after we completed that particular lab. We never got partial credit on exams in certain courses but rather points docked off for making such foolish guesses. I come to find out the community college down the street is doing things a whole lot differently. Dare I say EASIER? Does that make me SAD? Absolutely. Again, this happens everywhere. There's not much to complain about because such is life. This could be happening at a university and the community college's equivalent class is more difficult. People probably went to schools and had it much worse than anything I'm talking about. I'm sure that's why standardized tests exist. I have Ds on my transcript my friend. I've been sad for years. Now let me weep in silence.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Well sir, because at my school we had lab reports as long as novels for each and every lab we ever did due two days after we completed that particular lab. We never got partial credit on exams in certain courses but rather points docked off for making such foolish guesses. I come to find out the community college down the street is doing things a whole lot differently. Dare I say EASIER? Does that make me SAD? Absolutely. Again, this happens everywhere. There's not much to complain about because such is life. This could be happening at a university and the community college's equivalent class is more difficult. People probably went to schools and had it much worse than anything I'm talking about. I'm sure that's why standardized tests exist. I have Ds on my transcript my friend. I've been sad for years. Now let me weep in silence.

And in my A&P class at UC Davis, our professor gave us extra credit quizzes every morning before class, gave us 10% of our grade as participation points, allowed for extra credit if you enrolled in a science skills program, and let you take the final and replace a midterm with the grade if the final grade was > the midterm grade. Easy stuff is everywhere, at the top schools. Hell, at Stanford, grade inflation was RAMPANT.

It shouldn't make you sad that other people might or might not have it easier. The skills you gained through the perseverance of completing those very long, arduous lab reports will come in handy later, whereas your less-challenged peers will crumple under the pressure. A 20 page lab report for you will be nothing, to them it's insurmountable. Take that for solace and stop weeping. In pharmacy school, you'd be at the top of the crop, they'll be at the bottom (more or less).

And don't call me sir. I work for a living.

 

[owlegrad]

Yeah you're right.

Did you guys get the lesson about how miasma causes disease? That germ theory guy was WHACK.

Peesh, we all know disease is the result of immoral behaviour.

Have you heard about this idea of atums? Crazy stuff man. Like anything could exist that is too small to see.

 

[ewKinematics]

haha excuse my name calling. Hey I went to UC Davis for summer school one year. That A&P class sounds up my alley. I know these kinds of challenges can help me in the long run, but as my original post said, I have repeated quite a few classes and my pre-requisite GPA is low because of it. I imagine when a school is weeding people out, it's a computer doing it and my app will get thrown out because I probably won't be meeting the minimum pre-req GPA requirement.

 

[SparkLy09]

91 composite. sheesh. Thanks for pointing out my blatant community college trolling. Should we also drill the person who suggested re-taking classes at a community college would be considered "taking the easy way out" or the one who said there are some schools who value community college as "highly" as a four year university? How come when people post questions on here they're asked "did you go to a community college or a four year?" I didn't say every school was easy for crying out loud. Quote and increase font size all you want. I knew someone was going to go bananas the minute I say anything about community college. Thanks for your thoughts on upward trends. I'm not one to judge here with my sub par grades and apparent poor choice of words anyway.

I still think that if you were enrolled in both a 4 yr and a cc and took all your science courses at the CC instead of at your uni where you are planning to earn your actual degree... something's fishy. But of course, this really isn't your case. Since you've already graduated, take all the repeats and whatever you want to do at your local CC. By all means, it seems you've already decided on it anyway. As for repeats, unless those grades were below a C, I'd still recommend on getting your hands on upper levels (CC or not, whatever) and taking those. It'll have a greater impact on your GPA assuming you get an A and help your sGPA over that 3.0 or whatever which is basically what you're asking since you don't want to get "weeded" out.

I still want to repeat, some schools like UofMinnesota look at your LAST 2 or so years worth of classes before "weeding" or whatever process they do. So do some research and find the ones that probably won't "weed" you out & apply to those.

 

[dudecoolname]

I don't consider referring to a group of students who attend community college as "cc kids" as disparaging as you believe. Is it because I used the term "kids?" Don't mean that in reference to them being immature or something. I call everyone that. Sorry my choice of words aren't up to your standards. I also never said that all community college classes everywhere are easy. I didn't make that generalization. I said science is science..and that yes in some schools some classes are easier. Have I taken easy science courses in a university where there are a lot of As? Yes I have. Have I seen organic chemistry tests at my local community college all being multiple choice and exactly the same as the study guides? Yes I have. Am I saying it's like this everywhere? No. I've read about low GPAs and PCATs on here and vice versa. All I was asking is about getting weeded out solely on scores regardless of any upward trend, re-takes, etc. You guys are a riot.

 

[ewKinematics]

Thanks SparkLy. Those are definitely the schools I need to be looking into and I get what you were saying about taking community college classes while still enrolled in a university. Best of luck with your applications.

 

[CubanGator]

And in my A&P class at UC Davis, our professor gave us extra credit quizzes every morning before class, gave us 10% of our grade as participation points, allowed for extra credit if you enrolled in a science skills program, and let you take the final and replace a midterm with the grade if the final grade was > the midterm grade. Easy stuff is everywhere, at the top schools. Hell, at Stanford, grade inflation was RAMPANT.

It shouldn't make you sad that other people might or might not have it easier. The skills you gained through the perseverance of completing those very long, arduous lab reports will come in handy later, whereas your less-challenged peers will crumple under the pressure. A 20 page lab report for you will be nothing, to them it's insurmountable. Take that for solace and stop weeping. In pharmacy school, you'd be at the top of the crop, they'll be at the bottom (more or less).

And don't call me sir. I work for a living.

so true!