Yale vs Mayo

[pedro]

Opinions about AP-only training in these programs.. Thank you.

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[LADoc00]

Opinions about AP-only training in these programs.. Thank you.

tough one. would prob go with Yale, much improved in recent years.

 

[SLUsagar]

Opinions about AP-only training in these programs.. Thank you.

i'd pick yale. Mayo is fine,...but you gotta understand about 'the mayo way'..see other threads about their tol. blue procedures etc. mayo is great as long as you end up staying in the mayo system.

 

[hurthlecell]

did anyone who interviewed with yale receive some kind of letter of interest level?

 

[pathhamster]

Yes, I received a letter from the PD - pretty standard-looking with personal inserts specific to my application/interests here and there.

 

[path19]

no personal experience, but from what i've gained from talking to people, yale > mayo for residency but mayo > yale for fellowship. if you plan on staying on for fellowship, not sure which program would be more advantageous. but i don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

[pedro]

How is yale surg path day like?
...... So I guess mayo residents do not preview slides for next day sign-out.. am I right?

 

[erythrocyte]

Opinions about AP-only training in these programs.. Thank you.

I don't know enough to tell you which AP program is better. However, I believe that Yale is much stronger in CP. That may not matter to you, but other factors might or should -such as life outside of work and study. Being from CT, I can tell you that the New Haven area is a good location for life. You're about 1:15 hours commuter train ride (metro north) to NYC, maybe 1:30 by car. Boston, about 3 hours by car, or less by train. Cape Cod about 2.5-3 hours by car. In N. Haven itself, there are various cultural activities for all tastes.

I've never been to the Mayo C., and no offense intended to Minnesota ppl. But from what I understand from colleagues (I'm a research who knows ppl who have been there) it's in the middle of nowhere, though I'm sure Minneapolis has things going on (travel time???). I hear that you get to work at 5 am and spend 12 or 15 hours inside with the company of robots, who carry samples and other items to and from the various clinical and research labs. Then you go home, go to sleep and do the same thing the next day. I'm told that the "city" of Rochester consists mostly of the Mayo buildings. Everyone who lives there is connected with the Clinic in some way. Basically, you go there for your C.V., and that's fine. But, I suspect Yale would be just as good for your C.V.

 

[yaah]

Rochester - Minneapolis is I believe about 70 miles (to the airport anyway, add another 10 to get downtown).

Between Rochester and Minneapolis are a myriad of small towns, all population 100-500, situated along Rt 53 which in the winter can be impassable (although this is rare). Rochester is a bit closer to some other smaller towns.

Of course, what you neglect to mention is that many people like a community like Rochester which is a small city. Isolated, yes, but that has its benefits also.

Residents at Mayo (unless something has drastically changed in the past 2-3 years) work nowhere near the hours you are mentioning. They have one of the better schedules (if you like that sort of thing) of any program. Usually runs 8-5 or so.

 

[erythrocyte]

I'm sure you're right about the schedule. I should have specified that I was talking about certain researchers, not residents. I'm also sure you're right that many people would like such a town. The takehome message that I intended is that Mayo is said to be very much a work place, to build one's credentials. And for credentials, it is indeed excellent. All other things being equal, however, I think most people would prefer a somewhat more urban environment.

 

[raspberry009]

Mayo has a great program, I thought anyway. CP is really strong. Everyone in the midwest sends all of their sendouts to them. They get 110,000+ surgical specimens/yr. the "sink", aka surg path, is rather unique. Patients come from all over the world for treatment because of how the pathology program is set up. Pathologist are regarded very highly here. I think the process is genious. They freeze the tissue for section rather than fix it and the 'consultant' (aka attending) and the person sitting in the 'hot seat' (aka resident/fellow) will have a diagnosis for the surgeon within 10 min while the patient is still under. All tissues from outside hospitals (which is a large amount) are fixed and diagnosed,(like how everyone else does it). So you get training with both methods. Lots of PA help. The residents say that you are done by 7 at the latest on the worst days.

I don't want to sell the program too much because I really liked this program... -best kept secret

If anyone feels a burning need to compare notes, you can PM me.

 

[raspberry009]

I don't know enough to tell you which AP program is better. However, I believe that Yale is much stronger in CP. That may not matter to you, but other factors might or should -such as life outside of work and study. Being from CT, I can tell you that the New Haven area is a good location for life. You're about 1:15 hours commuter train ride (metro north) to NYC, maybe 1:30 by car. Boston, about 3 hours by car, or less by train. Cape Cod about 2.5-3 hours by car. In N. Haven itself, there are various cultural activities for all tastes.

I've never been to the Mayo C., and no offense intended to Minnesota ppl. But from what I understand from colleagues (I'm a research who knows ppl who have been there) it's in the middle of nowhere, though I'm sure Minneapolis has things going on (travel time???). I hear that you get to work at 5 am and spend 12 or 15 hours inside with the company of robots, who carry samples and other items to and from the various clinical and research labs. Then you go home, go to sleep and do the same thing the next day. I'm told that the "city" of Rochester consists mostly of the Mayo buildings. Everyone who lives there is connected with the Clinic in some way. Basically, you go there for your C.V., and that's fine. But, I suspect Yale would be just as good for your C.V.

I have been to both programs. Both are good. I prefer the midwest over the northeast. People aren't as horrible of drivers, and you are expected to have outside priorities rather than work, eat, and sleep. I just wanted to mention that there are some incorrect assumptions. Mayo has an incredible CP dept and better quality of life in terms of hours of work per week (and you get most of your weekends off). The focus of the program is to maximize learning and minimize scut work.

 

[yaah]

Well, I would be careful about saying that patients come from all over the world because of the way the pathology is set up. They go there because of the reputation and for the surgeons and other clinicians. I am sure they appreciate how the pathology system works, but it probably doesn't enter into their mind that significantly.

And also, be careful about simply equating specimen volume to quality of education. They do not necessarily correlate. Mayo does have a lot of great faculty and teachers, but at times the residents are not really "necessary" components to the service, the fellows are more significant. It depends on what service you are on to some extent. But Mayo's system of rapid frozen diagnosis (which is not like other frozen sections at other institutions) is unique and the residents don't participate in it to as great an extent as the fellows. It is more of a "fellow driven" program.

But every person has different desires in what they want out of a residency. The world don't move to the beat of just one drum. What might be right for you may not be right for some. A man is born, he's a man... wait, sorry about that

 

[erythrocyte]

I have been to both programs. Both are good. I prefer the midwest over the northeast. People aren't as horrible of drivers, and you are expected to have outside priorities rather than work, eat, and sleep. I just wanted to mention that there are some incorrect assumptions. Mayo has an incredible CP dept and better quality of life in terms of hours of work per week (and you get most of your weekends off). The focus of the program is to maximize learning and minimize scut work.

Sounds good to me. I did not apply to Mayo, but certainly I do not mean to discourage anyone from going there. In fact, since I have been invited to i.v. at Yale in the winter, it's better for me if the guy who asks the question picks Mayo! No doubt, there are people who would prefer living there. What raised my eyebrow was that the guy asking the question about the AP programs did not even inquire about life outside the Clinic. To me that suggested a possible case of workaholism

 

[schrute]

...at times the residents are not really "necessary" components to the service, the fellows are more significant.

I agree to some extent, but this can be a big advantage. The impression I got from the reidents I conversed with was that the fellows are great teaching resources and generally like to teach.
Not that it's better to be taught by fellows than seasoned pathologists, but being closer to your stage in the game, they can relate a little better and are generally quite enthusiastic.

Also, they've changed the sink in the past few yrs to include a gradual increase in scope time to residents. Obviously with such high volume of surgicals they often don't have time to highlight all the teaching points of every case, but the more hours you log into the 'sink' the more scope time you get.

And a reminder the 'sink' is only a portion of one's surg path experience; a large portion is spent grossing & signing out cases from the surrounding communities, consisting of more bread 'n butter cases.

 

[raspberry009]

I agree to some extent, but this can be a big advantage. The impression I got from the reidents I conversed with was that the fellows are great teaching resources and generally like to teach.
Not that it's better to be taught by fellows than seasoned pathologists, but being closer to your stage in the game, they can relate a little better and are generally quite enthusiastic.

Also, they've changed the sink in the past few yrs to include a gradual increase in scope time to residents. Obviously with such high volume of surgicals they often don't have time to highlight all the teaching points of every case, but the more hours you log into the 'sink' the more scope time you get.

And a reminder the 'sink' is only a portion of one's surg path experience; a large portion is spent grossing & signing out cases from the surrounding communities, consisting of more bread 'n butter cases.

i agree