Yale vs Duke vs Wake Forest vs Maryland vs Michigan

[Gopher16]

I would really appreciate any help on this decision. I'm sorry this is long, but I'm super indecisive.

Yale
Pros

• Great Reputation with a really good match list
• Good Research opportunities with stellar faculty and interesting electives and opportunities
• P/F with low pressure exams and optional quizzing (may also have p/f clinical)
• Not far from my parents

Cons

• Didn't qualify for good financial aid package so COA super high
• Far from SO
• Not very diverse
• Cold

Duke
Pros

• Pretty diverse judging from accepted students group
• was accepted to primary care track and will have a very unique curriculum
• SO will probably be at another school very close by
• I love the flexibility of the third year
• The location is also diverse and I really like the area

Cons

• Could be expensive (have not received package)
• Kind of want to be somewhere new but it's not a huge deal

Wake Forest
Pros

• Full COA scholarship
• I like the city and could get a cool place to live
• Seems like faculty are kind and approachable
• Can do rotations in a bigger city nearby

Cons

• Concerned about research opportunities
• Match list not as great my other options (could this get worse with P/F step 1?)
• not as diverse as I would like

Maryland
Pros

• Close to parents
• 20k scholarship
• Good research opportunities
• Diverse class

Cons

• Not as prestigious
• not crazy about Baltimore

Michigan
Pros

• Super nice faculty and great diversity office that I really like
• close to extended family
• So many oppurtunities to do cool things
• shortened pre clinical
• 35 k scholarship

Cons

• Out of state tuition is super high
• Far from SO (they may end up attending a school in the region but it's not likely)
• Cold

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[Banco]

I’m worried about pass fail step one.

I mean, Wake Forest's match list is mostly academic medical centers? Step 1 being pass fail isn't going to make all of those PD's that normally the wake student's just say "nah, never again. "Your "no chance at academic center" is hyperbolic. Here is the match list from 2020: Match List 2020 - post what you got. I see plenty of Emory, Duke, Northwestern, Yale, Harvard, UTSW, Chicago etc. (i.e. large academic medical centers)

Duke will definitely have more prestige and likely help you out for top programs, but that's a steep price to pay for the prestige and it's up to you to see if it's worth it based on your goals.

All I'm saying you can 100% get a good academic residency from Wake Forest.

 

[proudofmykids]

My COA for each:
Yale :280k
Duke: don’t know could be 360k max
Maryland: 80k
Michigan: 88k
Wake: nothing of course lol

It looks like you might be mixing total tuition for some ( Michigan, MD, Yale) vs full COA for others (Duke)?

PICK Wake!!! Did you review their match list? They punch above their weight class! They are only 82 miles from Duke and ergo close to your SO.

Also, I believe your COA for Michigan will be like $105k w/out living expense total (w/out 30k/yr living exp and remember to use out of state tuition which is $245k total) so Not worth it, especially for your Primary care specialty lower career compensation.
Even if Duke gives you half tuition scholarship, it isn’t worth $250K more!

 

[proudofmykids]

Not relevant to the decision but when putting in tiers, I do think Maryland is significantly stronger than Wake. I agree though, not withstanding SO situation, seems like a slam dunk for Michigan if you don't mind living with the family member.

I agree $105k loans should probably not make much dent in the decision against Michigan, but SO Does seem like a big factor.

 

[proudofmykids]

What will the loans from Duke look like after you finish residency in the specialities you have in mind? ACMAS has a loans calculator. Then maybe take the average salary of whatever speciality your interested in, and then look at the after tax take home. Then look at what your monthly educational loan payment will be, and try to factor in mortgage payment, car, retirement, etc. Then ask yourself whether duke is worth it over a free ride to wake. I’d totally take the free ride to wake. It’s an excellent school, and educational debt is ball and chain.

Don’t forget to also factor out of that net pay the cost for kids and saving $400k in 18 years for their private school undergraduate education.

 

[drgoldenboy]

Don’t forget to also factor out of that net pay the cost for kids and saving $400k in 18 years for their private school undergraduate education.

OP says they might choose to live frugally for 7-8 years after residency and choose to delay having a family so they can pay their debts from attending Duke.

😩

 

[proudofmykids]

OP says they might choose to live frugally for 7-8 years after residency and choose to delay having a family so they can pay their debts from attending Duke.

Except on a $250K IM gross earnings, saving for kids full COA undergraduate isn’t too feasible on its own. Taking the Wake offer gives the OP $300-400k of total payments from Duke loan Repayment to his own kids college fund no matter what.
And if he waits 8 additional years to have kids and pays undergrad fund, retirement becomes more strenuous!

 

[drgoldenboy]

Except on a $250K IM gross earnings, saving for kids full COA undergraduate isn’t too feasible on its own. Taking the Wake offer gives the OP $300-400k of total payments from Duke loa. Repayment to his own kids college fund no matter what.
And if he waits 8 additional years to have kids and pays undergrad fund, retire,met becomes more strenuous!

OP, the financial flexibility that this decision will offer you will create personal life decision flexibility down the road that might be difficult to envision right now. Want a family? Want to work less? Want to retire earlier than you thought? Need to take time off from working for any reason? Job market for your speciality shrinks? Want to work abroad? Whatever the case may be - you won't have a compounding student debt burden weighing on your shoulders. Nada. zip. zero. Free as a bird. Talk to older doctors and see what they say.

And it's not some podunk school. Wake is legit....!!!

 

[Gopher16]

Except on a $250K IM gross earnings, saving for kids full COA undergraduate isn’t too feasible on its own. Taking the Wake offer gives the OP $300-400k of total payments from Duke loa. Repayment to his own kids college fund no matter what.
And if he waits 8 additional years to have kids and pays undergrad fund, retire,met becomes more strenuous!

I’m a woman...

 

[Gopher16]

OP says they might choose to live frugally for 7-8 years after residency and choose to delay having a family so they can pay their debts from attending Duke.

😩

Geez I said possibly if I don’t mind living my life that way. I’m not being dumb. I’m trying to see what would make me happiest.

 

[drgoldenboy]

Geez I said possibly if I don’t mind living my life that way. I’m not being dumb. I’m trying to see what would make me happiest.

I understand - it's a tough decision when you are the one making it. From an outside perspective, and given what you have said, it seems crystal clear. Good luck OP and congratulations.

 

[Gopher16]

No idea if anyone wants to know the conclusion to this, but I ended up picking Michigan. I got a full tuition scholarship on April 30th at the last minute lol. Go blue!

 

[HockeyAndBanjos73]

No idea if anyone wants to know the conclusion to this, but I ended up picking Michigan. I got a full tuition scholarship on April 30th at the last minute lol. Go blue!

Congratulations!

 

[drgoldenboy]

No idea if anyone wants to know the conclusion to this, but I ended up picking Michigan. I got a full tuition scholarship on April 30th at the last minute lol. Go blue!

Nice!!!!! That’s perfect - good luck!