WVSOM - PBL v. SBL?

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FutureDoc2011

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I was recently accepted to WVSOM for 2007. Now I need to determine whether I want to do PBL or SBL. PBL sounds like the path for me, however I'm concerned I won't be able to keep up with everything I need to learn. How does the PBL curriculum compare to that of SBL? What about test scores? :confused:

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I was recently accepted to WVSOM for 2007. Now I need to determine whether I want to do PBL or SBL. PBL sounds like the path for me, however I'm concerned I won't be able to keep up with everything I need to learn. How does the PBL curriculum compare to that of SBL? What about test scores? :confused:

PBL does require a lot of responsibility on your part. This might be the downside to it when national boards come - on the other hand, some PBLers, because of all that spare time they have use it to study the USMLE and COMLEX and end up with some really phenomenal scores. I'm a little under the impression that the PBLers are either outright brilliant...or perform not so great....so I guess it boils down to personal responsibility.

All PBLers have good anatomy skills here. Very good.

I am an SBLer, and the PBLers helped me out a lot on clinical skills/patient relationship tactics.

I'm afraid I can't really say anything else about PBL, other than they are a tight knit group. They're like a mini family in a bigger family if you know what I mean. They work in small group settings and have many case studies.

As for SBL, you will break your balls each night until 2AM in the morning. Not kiddin. The days run from 8AM to 5:30PM - so some people decide not to come to class, and that might be a good thing for them, but I am someone that needs to come to class. They don't take attendance. Histology is very rough here. I sat down and memorrized the entire slide box, and when the practical came, I still had it rough.

Biochem - Not too rough. If you are a biochem major in undergrad, then this is probably cake. If you were a biology major like me, then it was fairly hard. Some of the professors are easy, some are not.

Developmental Genetics - Phenomenal Class. Starts out really hard and gets easier as time goes by. This is more of a developmental class than a Genetics class. The real gentics class doesn't start until later in the year.

Physiology - It starts off easy and gets really really hard. We have just finnished respiratory. A lot of concepts.

Histology - Fear it. It will make undergrad histology look like nothing.

Both SBLers, and PBLers take OPP and Gross Anantomy. Gross Anatomy is also fairly rough and will keep you up all night long as an SBLer because you will not have a lot of spare time. Honestly I have lost a lot of sleep over anatomy.

Clinical skills - the PBLers are good at it. They are at the school's health clinics like 20 times a semester.

So Thanksgiving has finally set it, and we SBLers are half broken. My upper right shoulder is killing me.

Testing - I'm not sure how PBL works. In SBL you take a test every 2 weeks. This is both good and bad. Good in that it makes everything really intensive and you are continously studying each night. Bad because...well you get the picture. For SBLers, there are test on Monday (8AM-12) and Tuesday (8-10) that are devoted to just the testing and practicals. They are very long drawn out affairs for me - though I have seen some people work through the problems at a phenomenal pace, but as for me...I'm a snail.
After the morning testing is done, then come the Histology, Gross Anantomy, OPP, and clinical skills practical. In both SBL and PBL, you always have Gross Anatomy. You might then have a combo of histology/OPP or then OPP/Clinical skills.

I would try to write something more coherent for you to work with, but I am only a first year student here and we have not yet gotten through half the semester. There are going to be more upcomming classes that SBLers will soon have to tangle with. Immunology and Nutrition are comming up in 1 week to replace Histology and Developmental Genetics.


I'll write again tonight or tommorow.:luck:
 
How does the PBL curriculum compare to that of SBL? What about test scores? :confused:

Every school does PBL a little differently, but what they seem to have in common is that you have to be VERY self-motivated. You don't spend a lot of time in class, so you have to teach yourself a lot about the basic sciences. The great thing about it is that you are really well-prepared for your clinical years because you spend most of your "class" time working clinical cases. If you are not strongly self-motivated...PBL is NOT the path for you at any school.
 
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Thank you very much for that in depth response! I am pretty self-motivated, but I guess I left out a major point in my initial question - my degree is in Computer Science and I spent three years out of school before going back to finish pre-med prerequisites. I'm afraid I may not have as much of a strong science background as most med students. You figure I'd be happy to just get in...now I'm torn deciding between SBL and PBL! :eek:
 
Hey there, I was a comp-sci major. I made it thru PBL and passed my boards 8) Also doing very well on rotations so far. Thus if you are self-motivating it's a good pick for someone who is a non-traditional student.

I'd write more but I gotta get up at 2:30am :(

-Richie
 
Hey there, I was a comp-sci major. I made it thru PBL and passed my boards 8) Also doing very well on rotations so far. Thus if you are self-motivating it's a good pick for someone who is a non-traditional student.

I'd write more but I gotta get up at 2:30am :(

-Richie

Are you the guy who got like 250 somthing on the USMLE Step I?

Someone in my anatomy table was saying, that. She must know you somehow.

Even though I am a first year student, I am already thinking the COMLEX and USMLE are going to be a mass struggle for me.
 
No that is not me with the 700+ and the 250, but one of my awesome PBL classmates who smoked boards. :thumbup:

Just work hard thru school and study every day a little bit. You'll get there faster than you think.

Much love,
Richie
 
All PBLers have good anatomy skills here. Very good.

I disagree; it seems that they have more time to spend in the anatomy lab, especially before tests, compared to us (SBLs), but I wouldn't say that they are any better at anatomy.

As for SBL, you will break your balls each night until 2AM in the morning. Not kiddin.

I only know a handful of people who study this much, and I wonder how much of that time is actually used to study and how much goes into chatting with other people in the library/catacombs...

determine whether I want to do PBL or SBL

If you have any hesitation about PBL, I say avoid it...
 
I disagree; it seems that they have more time to spend in the anatomy lab, especially before tests, compared to us (SBLs), but I wouldn't say that they are any better at anatomy.

True, they do have more time to go over anatomy.

Well, all I know is my grades in anatomy suck big time. And whenever we have those clinical case studies where they call up people to present the cases.... I have not a bloody clue what I would do.

I mean look at all the people who raise their hands in the class. Other than for a few of the West Virginians sitting in the last row, its the PBLers who really ask phenomenal questions. And I'm like...what? What's she even talking about....

...Dude I honestly feel real dumb.

I only know a handful of people who study this much, and I wonder how much of that time is actually used to study and how much goes into chatting with other people in the library/catacombs...

I was evicted from the catacombs laugh: :laugh: I am now in exhile.
 
hey i'm new to this site.. whats pbl and sbl.. is it problem based learning and system based learning? and if so, what are the differences?

thanks
 
A fellow PBLer here. To be honest, medical school is hard with whatever curriculum you pick. Basically, SBLers get drilled every 3 weeks. Us PBLers, get drilled every ten weeks. Not bad right? Well, you have to discipline yourself to constantly review material over a 10 week span while learning new things and keeping up with anatomy, OPP, and Clinical skills. So both curriculums are hard. Basically, it all boils down to whether or not you can be proactive in preparing yourself for the boards or do you need to be regimented by someone else? I study anatomy with several SBLers, and I have to say that they are smart as anyone else I know.
 
A fellow PBLer here. To be honest, medical school is hard with whatever curriculum you pick. Basically, SBLers get drilled every 3 weeks. Us PBLers, get drilled every ten weeks. Not bad right? Well, you have to discipline yourself to constantly review material over a 10 week span while learning new things and keeping up with anatomy, OPP, and Clinical skills. So both curriculums are hard. Basically, it all boils down to whether or not you can be proactive in preparing yourself for the boards or do you need to be regimented by someone else? I study anatomy with several SBLers, and I have to say that they are smart as anyone else I know.

Just wondering, can PBLers get SBL's notes
 
yes, I asked at my interview and was told that EVERYONE has access to the SBL notes. :D
 
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Just wondering, can PBLers get SBL's notes

Yes. It's under a shared storage computer file that everyone can access.

The teacher uploads all the notes onto the server and everyone downloads if they want to. However all your notes are printed out and placed in your mailboxes several days before class if you are an SBLer. It comes in packets already hole punched and stapled - you just study and write on them. So if you are a PBLer and are curious about let's say conjugated billirubin and Hb break down, you can go to the file, download and print.

Also, if you have good notes, you too can upload your files and share them with everyone else. This is very good if your notes are good, but also very bad if you choose to use someone's notes that weren't too hot and they left out something. So learn who the brilliant people are in class and download their notes. Most schools are like this or have somthing similar to this.

Additional notes and random items are also placed onto the computer system. The computers....my God! Where would we be without computers!!! Hell, even the clinicians don't write prescriptions anymore. They just use a laptop and email the thing over to the pharmacy!
 
I, personally, am SBL. I don't think I could have the self-motivation to handle PBL. Go with what you feel you could handle best. Just don't develop a hate towards your fellow students in the other branch. It would be a shame to have to bust some skulls :laugh: .
 
Just don't develop a hate towards your fellow students in the other branch.

I agree. We're all in this together so try to keep the connection as much as possible! You'll miss being around everyone in your 3rd year rotations.
 
Amen Richie. Also, I think you took me to lunch at the General Lewis when I interviewed. :laugh:
 
Amen Richie. Also, I think you took me to lunch at the General Lewis when I interviewed. :laugh:

Too late for that. I just don't feel safe walking into the lecture hall anymore cause them SBLers are always giving me the evil eye:D
 
You probably deserve it ye bloody PBL'er!:laugh:
 
With all of the new changes to the curriculum this year, I’m not sure which one I would pick either. I did PBL and honestly was kind of disappointed with the lack of structure to the whole thing. The idea is that you are able to explore your PBL cases in any direction that your group decides instead of being told what you are responsible for knowing, which makes it interesting but a little unnerving at times. Personally I would like to have a set of minimum expectations/objectives that you are responsible for covering included with each case, to keep you on track with the basic med school curriculum. It would also make studying for exams a bit more guided, instead of the usual freak-out session that takes place the day before when you realize that you “studied” the Krebs cycle but have no idea to what detail the professors expect you to know it. Trust me, that feeling sucks.

However, the fact that you are not in class all day is a MAJOR perk. You can spend much more time in the anatomy lab dissecting, working on your group cases, and studying what you want for boards. In terms of clinical days, you get to do that about 2-3 times a semester which does help for rotations but is not essential. All of the lecture powerpoints and audio files are available online, so even as a SBLer I suppose you can stay at home in your jammies and study.

It is tough either way so just make your choice and bust your a$$. Goodluck ;)
 
You probably deserve it ye bloody PBL'er!:laugh:

In fact, one of those rascally SBLers made me cookies the other day all as part of her heinous plan to fatten me up..grr. It amazes me how low you SBLers will sink to foil us PBLers.
 
This is for those who are worried that PBL won't ready you for your rotations. Here is the comment section from my urologic surgery rotation grade form. The declination on #4 is in reference to Osteopathic Principles. I'm their first D.O. student and since they are used to med students from north carolina schools, they haven't been exposed to the osteopathic manipulation stuff (which I use once in a blue moon :laugh: ).

urologicsurgeryeval.jpg



Also, listen to gclax30. They know what they are talking about. Go BoSox!
 
just out of curiosity, what are they planning on doing to accomodate the increase in class size when it comes to 3rd and 4th year rotations? (now that the class size is 200)
 
just out of curiosity, what are they planning on doing to accomodate the increase in class size when it comes to 3rd and 4th year rotations? (now that the class size is 200)


A fine question in deed... I sure would like to know the answer :confused:
 
just out of curiosity, what are they planning on doing to accomodate the increase in class size when it comes to 3rd and 4th year rotations? (now that the class size is 200)

Big Cat, is our class President.

He's more qualified than me to answer.

Big Cat....:D
 
I saw this answered in another post, but yes indeedly, there will be plenty of room for rotations in the 3rd and 4th years for everyone. The administration went into planning the class expansion already looking to expand on rotation sites to accommodate the enlarged student population. And they are looking to expand on them even more than they have currently. There will be an increased number of slots available at all current rotation sites, as well as new ones opening up, available to you as well as the Class of 2010 (huzzah!).

So don't let that be a worry to you, the administration here is too helpful to expand the class size and not have any consideration for your years away from WVSOM doing rotation.
 
I saw this answered in another post, but yes indeedly, there will be plenty of room for rotations in the 3rd and 4th years for everyone. The administration went into planning the class expansion already looking to expand on rotation sites to accommodate the enlarged student population. And they are looking to expand on them even more than they have currently. There will be an increased number of slots available at all current rotation sites, as well as new ones opening up, available to you as well as the Class of 2010 (huzzah!).

So don't let that be a worry to you, the administration here is too helpful to expand the class size and not have any consideration for your years away from WVSOM doing rotation.
I would have to agree with Big Cat. I am the Vice President for the Class of 2010's PBL Track, and had several students bring those worries to me within the first few weeks here.

It seems like a valid concern. The school increased its class size, so does it have the ability to find slots for 3rd & 4th year to compensate that increase?

There was a class discussion during a Dean's Hour about this, and the Administration explained to us all:
1.) All of the sites currently open
2.) The new sites just opened this year
3.) The ones being finalized this year
4.) The future ones in process

So, in conclusion, will there be enough spots for the increased class size? YES. DEFINITELY.

It's nice to know that they are open to discuss the concerns, as well as to put aside any myths or hypes that would go around. That openness was a key reason why I picked this school out of the four that offered me slots.
 
Its good to see that the "Don" has joined the discussion. Hows your holiday break man? To all you future students, if you have any questions, ask myself or the "Don." He is a straight shooter that will tell you like it is and is a root to study with. Me and him have literally been thru WWII together:)
 
Its good to see that the "Don" has joined the discussion. Hows your holiday break man? To all you future students, if you have any questions, ask myself or the "Don." He is a straight shooter that will tell you like it is and is a root to study with. Me and him have literally been thru WWII together:)

Battery's recharged... ready to run! :D

See ya on campus on Monday!!! :cool:

~"The Don"
 
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