Would you keep applying? Regardless of age?

[jophe]

Just curious...

I have applied twice, with no luck either time. At this point, if a take another year to dedicate enhancing myself as an applicant (retake MCAT for the 3rd time, take a few upper-level science courses, more volunteering, etc,) I would be looking at starting as a MS1 at 29/30. I will be 37 once I am done with at least internal medicine. Pushing 40 if I want to go further. It definitely is a factor with me, but really not enough to deter me. Just wondering if anyone else thinks about this.

Thanks!

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[WashMe]

Just curious...

I have applied twice, with no luck either time. At this point, if a take another year to dedicate enhancing myself as an applicant (retake MCAT for the 3rd time, take a few upper-level science courses, more volunteering, etc,) I would be looking at starting as a MS1 at 29/30. I will be 37 once I am done with at least internal medicine. Pushing 40 if I want to go further. It definitely is a factor with me, but really not enough to deter me. Just wondering if anyone else thinks about this.

Thanks!

Think about this: You could still have a 20+ year career and you'll probably live to be 80+, so don't spend the next 50 years wishing you had done medicine.

Personally, I'd apply again.

 

[jophe]

What I meant to say was at what point would others stop applying when age becomes a factor? Sorry about that.

 

[WashMe]

What I meant to say was at what point would others stop applying when age becomes a factor? Sorry about that.

Well if I had to apply at ~29 it would be a different story only b/c I'm 22 and I'm reapplying (1st reapp) this summer. If I am still applying at 29, it will mean I was rejected like 8 years in a row. I don't think I'd be willing to continue if I were rejected 3, maybe 4 times.

I don't think age is as important as how many times a person has applied. I'd tell a 35yo who never applied to go for it, but I wouldn't say the same to a 26yo who has been rejected 4 or 5 times.

Even entering medical school in late 20's/ early 30's will allow for a long, fulfilling career.

 

[glamqueen]

I'll be starting med school this fall at 28 - if I were you, I'd reapply instead of wondering your whole life if you should have.

 

[dragonfly99]

Need more information.
What are your career goals? What would you do if not medicine? How close were you to getting admitted somewhere last year? What is your current occupation? Any current family demands (like kids at home, etc.)?

 

[rkaz]

Well if I had to apply at ~29 it would be a different story only b/c I'm 22 and I'm reapplying (1st reapp) this summer. If I am still applying at 29, it will mean I was rejected like 8 years in a row. I don't think I'd be willing to continue if I were rejected 3, maybe 4 times.

I don't think anyone would realistically apply 8 times. If someone is applying 8 times, then clearly that person is not applying intelligently, as he/she should rather spend the time working on the application to make himself/herself competitive for medical school. However, if someone is serious about going into medicine, then he/she would do whatever it takes to get there, such as by taking 1-2 years to improve his/her application. Also that person would take any route possible... applying widely to US MD, DO, and foreign schools.

Now foreign schools are a risky choice due to the competition for residency (though Caribbean schools like SGU, Ross, AUC are supposed to be better choices of the foreign schools for US citizens). However, if someone has unsuccessfully applied to US MD and DO schools more than twice, probably adding foreign schools on the third (or greater) attempt would be a good idea. Obviously if one went the foreign route then he/she would need to make sure to kick butt in classes, but in can be done if all else fails. However, I think if someone spent the 1-2 years to improve his/her application, then getting into a US MD or DO school should hopefully be attainable.

 

[jophe]

Need more information.
What are your career goals? What would you do if not medicine? How close were you to getting admitted somewhere last year? What is your current occupation? Any current family demands (like kids at home, etc.)?

As far as specialty, I really haven't narrowed it down to that level. I just want to be in medicine, and I will let my experiences during medical school dictate where I would want to go after that.

In college, I didn't know what I would do if not medicine. I still feel that way to some extent, except I am more willing to consider other paths these days (which is what I am doing right now.) But, I still can't get medical school out of my system.

Not sure how close. I didn't get any interviews, so I am sure it wasn't close. I do need to get my GPA up (3.4) and my MCAT (23, 1st try; 25, 2nd try.) Which I wouldn't have any issues taking a year off to do.

Currently I am a project director within public health research, which I have been doing for 2.5 years now.

No real family commitments. I have a long term girlfriend. I worry about my mom though, as she doesn't have health insurance or retirement and is self-employed. I don't know how long she can keep that up.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Sometimes I feel like just doing something like pharmacy just to get over with school, and get my "life" started. But I fear at the end of the day it may just turn into "job." Either way, I have faith in myself that I will work it out.

 

[dragonfly99]

both the MCAT score (especially the MCAT) and overall GPA are lowish for an allopathic med school applicant. If you have a 3.4 GPA I'd guess you'll need MCAT in the 30's to get interviews. The DO schools might overlook the lower MCAT and GPA if you have interesting work experiences, so you might want to consider applying there if you haven't already. Caribbean med schools would also probably take you, though I'm not sure I'd advise that unless you are OK with doing primary care and can get into one of the top 2 or 3 schools down there.

Pharmacy school might also be good. There are pharmacists who do a lot more clinical stuff (like work with a lot of chemotherapy patients, etc. and are more closely involved with direct patient care, vs. regular retail pharmacists). I don't know a whole lot about it, but it might be worth exploring.

 

[rkaz]

With your current stats, I feel rather optimistic that you could get into a DO medical school this year. Many of the DO schools now have MCAT averages between 26-28. So a 25 isn't too big of a deal, as there are plenty of others who have gotten in with your stats. A 3.4 is a decent GPA for DO programs as well (as long as both your science and cumulative GPA are around that number, with neither being much lower than a 3.2). Apply early in June and widely to many DO schools and I am fairly confident that you'll get in somewhere this year... as long as you do well on your interviews. Your public health experience is a big plus in your favor.

If you wanted to go to allopathic (MD) schools, you may need to take 1-2 years to improve your application to get there. However, being that you stand a reasonable chance to get into osteo school this year itself without having to radically alter your application (just continue your volunteer work on the side)... it might be a nice choice to just try to get accepted to DO programs and move forward with your medical education. DO schools are also generally regarded as being more open towards non-trads as compared to MD programs... this is a generalization, but I have seen many non-trads myself have chances at DO schools that MD schools didn't grant them (though there are still plenty of non-trads at MD programs as well).

 

[MadEvans]

Just curious...

I could be happy doing other things, namely PhD or cert. diabetes educator. After two tries, I would go a different direction regardless of age. It's an arduous process - as I'm sure you're aware - and I personally couldn't stomach it more than twice. But this varies from person to person, so advice is difficult to give/accept. You have to ask yourself personally what you want, and don't get too caught up on the idea of "medicine is the only career for me". Be open to alternate career options.

 

[slick27]

With your stats it was a watse of money to apply to md schools. If you don't have a 30 most schools won't even look at your application.

 

[dragonfly99]

I agree with Madevans.
I had to apply 2x to get in med school. So did a lot of people.
However, the OP's MCAT score is really not competitive for MD schools, and the GPA is low as well. I think the OP either needs to try for DO, go abroad or do some serious, serious MCAT studying, plus take a class or two to try to raise the science GPA as much as possible.

 

[jophe]

Guys, thanks for the input. I am going to give myself a few weeks to decide if I am going to keep pursuing medical school. Actually, taking a year off to improve my stats and reapplying isn't something I am against at all. I would do it in a heartbeat if I was confident and 100% invested in that path.

The low GPA was due to personal illness and the chaos it caused during the later half of undergrad. Should have taken time off to deal with it, as opposed to trying to push through it and be "strong." It definitely has been a hard road.

Thanks again for the input.

 

[rkaz]

With your stats it was a watse of money to apply to md schools. If you don't have a 30 most schools won't even look at your application.

At my in-state allo school, there were 2 people accepted this year with a 25 and 26 MCAT (and that's just from those who posted on SDN, although there could be others as well). These people did have solid GPAs though. I know getting into an MD program with a 25/26 is pretty rare, but it can happen. But with a low GPA as well, then obviously all bets are off.

I just wanted to clear that up, as getting accepted to allo schools with sub-30s MCAT certainly does happen. There are also some people in my group waitlisted with a 27 on the MCAT. Most of all these people accepted/waitlisted have scores generally consistent with entering DO accepted stats, but in-state schools sometimes are more generous to their applicants.

 

[EricH]

What I meant to say was at what point would others stop applying when age becomes a factor? Sorry about that.

I'll start as an MS1 3 weeks before my 32 birthday...dosent bother me a bit.

If you want to be a doc...than be one...don't let anything stand in your way, least of all timelines. Also, forget that "done" business you will be a intern/resident, helping people, in 4 years. So you wont have a fat check, there are plenty of things in life that are freeeeeeeee!

Also, your stats are fine for DO schools. Touro-NV, for example, had entering class stats of 3.3/3.4 GPA and 23/24 MCAT last year. Anyone who has spent time in a hospital knows that DO/MD dosen't matter when you're practicing.

Good Luck

 

[jophe]

Ha ha! Thanks EricH, for the solid advice. I just need to reevaluate a few ares of my life, and my own personal issues before ever taking on medicine again. But you are right, after 4 years you will be a practicing physician. Thanks for the info on the DO school in Nevada. Good luck!

 

[billw]

You're young yet. I'll be 39 when I apply. Best case scenario, I'll be 46 coming out of residency. No sense in getting too wrapped up about reaching your waypoints in life, since we all ultimately have the same destination.

 

[2000 Man]

Alright, why are you asking this? Do you want to be a doctor? If yes, than you have your answer. You are by no way near being too old. Study hard for the MCAT (use Exam Krackers, helped bumped my composite considerably). Your GPA is what it is.

I applied 4 times, took the MCAT 4 times (used Exam Krackers the last time) and got 2 acceptances on the 4 try at the age of 43. if you REALLY want to be a doctor you have plenty of time (don't let anyone tell you otherwise).

 

[dragonfly99]

There will be significant financial and personal costs to going to med school for most people. I think those are potentially magnified the older you are...I went to med school @25 and I think it was a bit rougher than for those who enrolled @22. Also, there are personal health consequences to doing med school + residency at older ages...it really is physically stressful. I honestly cannot really imagine doing a residency @40. I'm not saying it can't be done, b/c obviously there are people who have done it and it can be done. However, you are saying you could be happy doing other things, so I'm wondering if you SHOULD do med school. Diabetes educators, PhD's, etc. are all necessary to health care, just like physicians are, and I'm personally not sure that it sounds like MD or DO + a residency is going to be worth the wait and potential costs to you...in the end nobody can answer that but you, though.

 

[windmonster]

i m a PhD student and hopes to apply to duke-nus. Don't know whether I am too old for it. i m in my mid-20s. Do they have gender quota? any idea whether there is anyone who got past MCAT? thinking of skipping it? Any idea?

 

[BruceBanner]

Just curious...

I have applied twice, with no luck either time. At this point, if a take another year to dedicate enhancing myself as an applicant (retake MCAT for the 3rd time, take a few upper-level science courses, more volunteering, etc,) I would be looking at starting as a MS1 at 29/30. I will be 37 once I am done with at least internal medicine. Pushing 40 if I want to go further. It definitely is a factor with me, but really not enough to deter me. Just wondering if anyone else thinks about this.

Thanks!

Hey there,

I'm in a similar spot. I'm 27 and going into my second application cycle. Like others have mentioned, when you get closer to 30, and it’s your second (or third) time applying, you start to ask youself if this is really worth it; if it is truly worth the current and impending sacrifices.

Seeing your friends getting into careers, pulling in nice income, and buying property only makes it that much harder. After all, you’re looking at a minimum of 8 years of training before you become a licensed, independent practitioner making “real” money. That’s a tough pill to swallow, and it makes mid-level careers look much more attractive.

I know that sounds a bit defeatist, but for many people practicality and other life ambitions eventually trump youthful ambition. It is much easier to be gung-ho about the process when you're 22. Not to mention all the conflicting anecdotes and opinions make the decision tougher. Ive had doctors tell me that I should go the PA or AA route and circumvent the misery that can accompany physician training and get on with life. And Ive had doctors tell me to keep trying, fill the weak areas and my persistence will pay off. Both sides offer good advice.

If I were in your spot (and i'm not that far off), it would be very tough for me to go through everything again. To be honest, I wouldnt do it. I could still obtain a solid career as a midlevel, make good money, and have pretty decent lifestyle to boot. Would my ego suffer for "stepping down"? For a while, it might. It's tough to let go of a dream that has been 5-10 years in the making. But not being a physician doesnt necessarily make you any less intelligent, capable, or dedicated. The toughest part is having to confront the questions of others. You feel like a failure after you've been telling everyone about your med school pursuits for the last couple of years.

At the end of the day, there is really only 2 ways to look at this: if you really want to do it you, will do whatever it takes. And if you dont, you will find something better.

 

[BruceBanner]

Side note--I just saw your stats. I agree with Dragonfly99. I see no reason why you couldnt get into a D.O. program if you apply early. Do not waste your time or money applying to MD programs unless you boost your MCAT into the low 30's at the minimum.

My stats are similar---3.45 and 26Q---and I was waitlisted at one school after applying in November (!). The key is to apply early, esp if your stats are in the "middle" range.

I also took my MCAT twice, and I am opting NOT to take it a third time. Again, I have my reasons and it varies with everyone. Really take a hard look at what it will take to make a 30+ happen and if it is worth it to you.

Keep us posted!

 

[jophe]

Thanks Bruce for the encouragement. Putting the number 27 on paper makes it seem older than it really is. I honestly don't feel any different than I did when I was 21. It has more to do with the "life" milestones thing with me. I know I shouldn't let it get to me, but the internal pressure is there to get on with life.

I wish the only thing stopping me from moving forward was the age dilemma, but its not. Its much more complicated with me and my personal issues at the moment. It's extremely hard and frustrating to have the ambition, but other personal issues create big obstacles. But, you are right, all I can do is work hard at it. I will definitely keep everyone posted. Thanks again for your time.

Best,


J

 

[slick27]

At my in-state allo school, there were 2 people accepted this year with a 25 and 26 MCAT (and that's just from those who posted on SDN, although there could be others as well). These people did have solid GPAs though. I know getting into an MD program with a 25/26 is pretty rare, but it can happen. But with a low GPA as well, then obviously all bets are off.

I just wanted to clear that up, as getting accepted to allo schools with sub-30s MCAT certainly does happen. There are also some people in my group waitlisted with a 27 on the MCAT. Most of all these people accepted/waitlisted have scores generally consistent with entering DO accepted stats, but in-state schools sometimes are more generous to their applicants.

I think its more luck to get in with those numbers. You have something they are really looking for. Exceptional clinical experience, military experience, etc... I've known more people with under 30's and high GPA's that have not been accepted to MD schools than people who have.

 

[rkaz]

I think its more luck to get in with those numbers. You have something they are really looking for. Exceptional clinical experience, military experience, etc... I've known more people with under 30's and high GPA's that have not been accepted to MD schools than people who have.

Oh absolutely... you are correct. I was pretty shocked myself that people with those scores were accepted to an MD program, as I didn't think it was possible. These guys were not URM (not that I remember), but had great ECs. I'm sure they must have been remarkable in other ways. It's definitely an anomaly though, as there are very few in that boat. I just wanted to point out that it IS possible, though it happens quite rarely, and applicants certainly shouldn't bank on it.

 

[mvenus929]

Personally, if I don't get in this next time, I'll probably pursue another career; that's after 2 full application cycles.

My reasoning is pretty basic, though... my numbers are high enough that they really shouldn't be a factor in getting in, so there's little improvement I could make there. I've made leaps and bounds of clinical experience in the past year, and if it's still not enough by the time I go to interviews, then there's very little I can do to improve my application there, either. So, if I'm still not in after two cycles, I'm probably not intended to go to medical school because there's something wrong with my personality that the adcoms just don't think is compatible with a career as a physician.

In your case, though, you can make improvements to your application. So, it might be worth it for you to keep trying until you get in. Just make sure your application changes each time.