Would you all do it again?

[doctor in da makin]

I am a premed student now interested in applying to podiatry school.

I am only asking on here because you guys are all podiatrists and not just some pre-podiatry students or students in their first year (no disrespect of course) . You all have actually lived through the 4 years and will have greater insight.

Here are my top questions:

1. Have you ever felt belittled or ridiculed by someone who assumed you only went to podiatry school because you couldn't get into medical school? I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't bother me a little if that happened to me.

2. After residency, what exactly happens next? Is it just like the medical route?

3. What was your starting salary? This is more about wanting to pay off all my loans quickly. I could care less about a big house and a fancy car.

4. Would you do it again?

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[ldsrmdude]

I am a premed student now interested in applying to podiatry school.

I am only asking on here because you guys are all podiatrists and not just some pre-podiatry students or students in their first year (no disrespect of course) . You all have actually lived through the 4 years and will have greater insight.

Here are my top questions:

1. Have you ever felt belittled or ridiculed by someone who assumed you only went to podiatry school because you couldn't get into medical school? I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't bother me a little if that happened to me.

2. After residency, what exactly happens next? Is it just like the medical route?

3. What was your starting salary? This is more about wanting to pay off all my loans quickly. I could care less about a big house and a fancy car.

4. Would you do it again?

1. Don't really recall it happening, but it could have. I never let anyone elses opinion of what I do bother me much. The only people whose opinion I care about know that I had the grades, but chose podiatry because it's what I wanted to do. Most people that I went to school with in Arizona were in a similar situation and had the grades to do something else if they decided to, but wanted to do podiatry.

2. I'm not sure what exactly you mean. After residency you get a job and start working, whether that is for a hospital, group, or on your own. Essentially the same as medical.

3. This thread here has some good answers for you. There are others scattered on this forum as well. It will vary, but I'd guess if you were to actually figure it up, you'd probably have an average of around 150k with a pretty wide range of numbers (60k-300k).

4. Yes, although there are certainly parts of my job I really don't like, most of my specific complaints are related to my specific job and I think podiatry as a whole can be a very rewarding/fun/interesting profession.

 

[AttackNME]

I am a premed student now interested in applying to podiatry school.

I am only asking on here because you guys are all podiatrists and not just some pre-podiatry students or students in their first year (no disrespect of course) . You all have actually lived through the 4 years and will have greater insight.

Here are my top questions:

1. Have you ever felt belittled or ridiculed by someone who assumed you only went to podiatry school because you couldn't get into medical school? I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't bother me a little if that happened to me.

2. After residency, what exactly happens next? Is it just like the medical route?

3. What was your starting salary? This is more about wanting to pay off all my loans quickly. I could care less about a big house and a fancy car.

4. Would you do it again?

1. There is confusion of what pods do and most just have limited experience working with podiatrists. We are starting to do more complex things and having more of a presence in hospitals. The establishment of 3 year residency programs for all is only recent, and not all programs are equal. As such people will have various degrees of experience and comfort with certain procedures and other medical specialties will meet people with various experiences. I explain this to anyone who asks. They respect me for what I do, and I don't try to do anything outside my comfort zone and am happy doing what I do.

2. Yes. Like any profession you start 1 year before you graduate residency and figure out jobs or fellowships

3. Don't worry about it you'll pay it off

4. Yes. I met my wife in school

 

[Creflo]

1. Not directly but I work in an orthopedic department and believe me they don't see us as equals. They typically had higher mcats, have a degree that is generally held to a higher standard, did longer residency programs, took the usmle, etc. They respect us for what we do well, but at the same time they do not see us as equals and it's hard to not be aware of this.
2. Basically.
3. 80k per year with free health insurance. (Notice not many posters are putting hard numbers out there.) And when they do, be sure to deduct taxes and student loan payments and see what you have left over.
4. No, I would be an electrician, plumber, or mechanic. I love what I do, and am making the best of it, just being honest. Listen to Dave Ramsey's show (google him) for a few weeks to see what real life is like when you are burdened with debt.

 

[SnozzBerry]

This is not meant to derail the thread here but this may help OP decide and something I've never fully understood about podiatry. Are all new podiatrists "foot and ankle surgeons" ? I know the obvious answer is yes. But I've seen the MGMA average salaries and it puts surgical podiatrists in the $250k range. Is this what every newly trained podiatrist is/ can reasonably hope to obtain? Or do some podiatrists never really use their surgical training in practice ? If so how common is this ? Is this why there is such a huge range of starting salaries. I mean it seems like they range from $70k to 240k. That range is huge for staring salary.

 

[Weirdy]

This is not meant to derail the thread here but this may help OP decide and something I've never fully understood about podiatry. Are all new podiatrists "foot and ankle surgeons" ? I know the obvious answer is yes. But I've seen the MGMA average salaries and it puts surgical podiatrists in the $250k range. Is this what every newly trained podiatrist is/ can reasonably hope to obtain? Or do some podiatrists never really use their surgical training in practice ? If so how common is this ? Is this why there is such a huge range of starting salaries. I mean it seems like they range from $70k to 240k. That range is huge for staring salary.

Private vs. Group vs. Multispecialty vs. Hospital

Its all covered in the threads and stickied job tips thread.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...tricks-and-experiences.1222811/#post-18535420
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/hospital-offer-should-i-take-it-or-not.1203852/
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...-homes-popular-side-incomes-for-pods.1235036/
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/podiatrist-salary-at-hospital-vs-private-practice.894351/

Just dig around a bit.

 

[AttackNME]

This is not meant to derail the thread here but this may help OP decide and something I've never fully understood about podiatry. Are all new podiatrists "foot and ankle surgeons" ? I know the obvious answer is yes. But I've seen the MGMA average salaries and it puts surgical podiatrists in the $250k range. Is this what every newly trained podiatrist is/ can reasonably hope to obtain? Or do some podiatrists never really use their surgical training in practice ? If so how common is this ? Is this why there is such a huge range of starting salaries. I mean it seems like they range from $70k to 240k. That range is huge for staring salary.

I think the range of salaries is a numerical illustration of the range of training and experience one could expect. The better training you receive, the more options and bargaining power you have. Also the more likely you will use your training. Those who have met their rearfoot numbers barely will likely not be doing much rearfoot in practice because they may not be comfortable doing it. However the motivated few can get around that by taking workshops, scrubbing with a colleague who knows the procedure and can help guide them, etc. I think it is great and encouraging to hear from other contributors to this forum that they are starting at a 200k+ salary but I don't know how common that is, and I suspect that kind of starting salary is among the few. Those starting in the lower end of the range will most likely not care to post here.

 

[bobtheweazel]

This is not meant to derail the thread here but this may help OP decide and something I've never fully understood about podiatry. Are all new podiatrists "foot and ankle surgeons" ? I know the obvious answer is yes. But I've seen the MGMA average salaries and it puts surgical podiatrists in the $250k range. Is this what every newly trained podiatrist is/ can reasonably hope to obtain? Or do some podiatrists never really use their surgical training in practice ? If so how common is this ? Is this why there is such a huge range of starting salaries. I mean it seems like they range from $70k to 240k. That range is huge for staring salary.

Also, the MGMA salaries and most other surveys aren't starting salaries—as in salaries right out if residency. So for those people that did report the 240k or whatever, many of them probably had many years of experience before getting to that level, and weren't making it right out of residency.

Probably the closest you could get to a starting salary survey is APMAs 2015 young physician survey, that had an average net of about 185k, but even that survey was counting podiatrists that had been out of residency for up to 10 years, so those aren't really starting salaries either.

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[I post PRN]

This is not meant to derail the thread here but this may help OP decide and something I've never fully understood about podiatry. Are all new podiatrists "foot and ankle surgeons" ? I know the obvious answer is yes. But I've seen the MGMA average salaries and it puts surgical podiatrists in the $250k range. Is this what every newly trained podiatrist is/ can reasonably hope to obtain? Or do some podiatrists never really use their surgical training in practice ? If so how common is this ? Is this why there is such a huge range of starting salaries. I mean it seems like they range from $70k to 240k. That range is huge for staring salary.

The starting salary range is as wide as the training. The worst podiatry residencies in the country are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much worse than the best ones. It's unfortunate, but true. I got lucky enough to land a good one. Good luck, work hard, be normal, you'll be fine.

 

[SnozzBerry]

Thanks for the answers guys!

 

[NatCh]

1. Have you ever felt belittled or ridiculed by someone who assumed you only went to podiatry school because you couldn't get into medical school? I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't bother me a little if that happened to me.

2. After residency, what exactly happens next? Is it just like the medical route?

3. What was your starting salary? This is more about wanting to pay off all my loans quickly. I could care less about a big house and a fancy car.

4. Would you do it again?

1. I've been told negative remarks from others (MDs, PA students, and a hair stylist--wtf) but I was secure in my decision so it didn't bother me.

2. You get a job in order to pay for the school you went to in order to get a job. Hmmm...

3. I finished residency in 2000 so bear that in mind. I made $60K + bonus, health, CME expenses, gas money, and all the belittling I could handle from my boss. My compensation package was pretty typical in those days. I think (hope) things are different nowadays.

4. Podiatry has been pretty good to me and even though I really enjoy what I do I don't know if I'd do it again. Medicine is too subject to the whims of the insurance industry and endlessly increasing regulations and paperwork. I'd look for passive income. As a doctor you have to provide the labor in order to make a living being a doctor (unless you employ others to do the work, in which case you're more of a manager than a doctor). It'd be nice to own a business or businesses in which you don't have to physically be present day to day to make money. It seems that an awful lot of people around me built a business or invented a product that became successful and their business got bought out by a bigger company. I think creating something that everyone wants would be great. I'm sure entrepreneur failure stories outnumber success stories by far, whereas you're very likely to make a good living as a doctor. I'd maybe try a little harder to work in the film and print industry, which is not only exciting but also has disproportionately high income. I had a few jobs but I was in my pre-med at the time and turned down work enough that my agent stopped calling. If only I had talent...

 

[ldsrmdude]

Had an experience this week that reminded me of question #1 in this thread. I had a patient with a diabetic foot ulcer who hadn't followed up and had missed 2 appointments come into my office last week. Wound had gotten much worse, pus coming out, he was complaining of fevers and chills, x-ray showed possible lytic changes of the metatarsal head. Anyways, I call the hospitalist to see if I can get a direct admit (I admit to the hospitalist, I don't have admitting privileges at this hospital). I give the hospitalist (who is fairly new to the hospital) a little of his story and how I think he's going to need to go to the OR. The hospitalist then says "Ok, I assume we'll need to consult a surgeon then." She seemed a little surprised/confused when I explained to her that I could handle the partial 5th ray amputation on my own without consulting the general surgeon.

Like others have said, there are still a lot of people, including those in the medical field, that don't know what we do.

 

[Rop]

Had an experience this week that reminded me of question #1 in this thread. I had a patient with a diabetic foot ulcer who hadn't followed up and had missed 2 appointments come into my office last week. Wound had gotten much worse, pus coming out, he was complaining of fevers and chills, x-ray showed possible lytic changes of the metatarsal head. Anyways, I call the hospitalist to see if I can get a direct admit (I admit to the hospitalist, I don't have admitting privileges at this hospital). I give the hospitalist (who is fairly new to the hospital) a little of his story and how I think he's going to need to go to the OR. The hospitalist then says "Ok, I assume we'll need to consult a surgeon then." She seemed a little surprised/confused when I explained to her that I could handle the partial 5th ray amputation on my own without consulting the general surgeon.

Like others have said, there are still a lot of people, including those in the medical field, that don't know what we do.

A lot of FA orthos brand and present themselves as "Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Surgeon". Just curious of how you initially presented yourself to the hospitalist if you intended to do the met amputation? Perhaps "Podiatric Foot and Ankle Surgeon" would've elimated any confusion?

 

[ldsrmdude]

A lot of FA orthos brand and present themselves as "Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Surgeon". Just curious of how you initially presented yourself to the hospitalist if you intended to do the met amputation? Perhaps "Podiatric Foot and Ankle Surgeon" would've elimated any confusion?

The topic of branding is interesting. I don't think I've ever referred to myself as "podiatric foot and ankle surgeon." I see a lot of people do that. I've never been a fan of it myself although I do understand why some would want to do it purely from an educational point of view

When I called the hospitalist I probably said "Hi Dr. Hospitalist, this is Dr. ldsrmdude, one of the podiatrists here in town. I've got a patient that needs to be admitted and I'm hoping I can do a direct admit to you for a diabetic foot infection." Had it been a hospitalist I knew better, I probably would have said something like "Hey Mike, this is 'dude. I've got a patient to direct admit." To have said "This is ldsrmdude, a podiatric foot and ankle surgeon" just seems so contrived and insecure to me. There are obviously a lot of people in our profession that disagree with me and give themselves all sorts of titles "Reconstructive Podiatric Foot and Ankle Surgeon" etc. Never really been something I wanted to do. If you do good work, people will come to understand and appreciate it, no matter what you call yourself. But, to each their own

 

[NatCh]

To have said "This is ldsrmdude, a podiatric foot and ankle surgeon" just seems so contrived and insecure to me.

Agreed.

 

[I post PRN]

I totally disagree with this comment. I am very secure with what my profession is. When it comes to patient care I do not want to delay action. It would be much easier for me to present myself as the "foot and ankle surgeon" when discussing a consult with another medical provider to avoid this kind of confusion that was previously described in the above post. I want to get straight to the point when discussing a consult with another provider, if they want to know more about my background we can discuss that at a later time when the surgery has been completed and we are communicating to each other outpatient care.

The fact of the matter is no one in the medical community has 100% understanding of what we do because A podiatrist is not a podiatrist is not a podiatrist. Some do surgery, some don't do any surgery, some are "sports medicine specialists", some are "limb salvage specialists", some like treating pediatric patients while some refuse to see pediatric patients, some like to do nail care and orthotics well some don't do either. We are a very confusing profession.

On top of all of this we have multiple board exams that a podiatrist can take and be "board-certified". The two main ones are ABFAS and ABPM but then there are many other smaller types of board exams that were created so that podiatrists who failed to pass those previously mentioned board exams could find a back door in to practicing podiatry.

Lastly the ABFAS and ABPM board exams are not even recognized by the American Board of medical specialties!

So somehow the ABFAS and ABPM board organizations were able to convince the majority of our profession that these boards were necessary to practice podiatry even though they are not recognized by the American Board of medical specialties.

Crazy, don't you think?

So before others cast judgment on others on how they want to present themselves in the medical community and in the public they should take a good look in the mirror and appreciate everything that goes on with our profession and understand how complicated we really are.



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[AttackNME]

I totally disagree with this comment. I am very secure with what my profession is. When it comes to patient care I do not want to delay action. It would be much easier for me to present myself as the "foot and ankle surgeon" when discussing a consult with another medical provider to avoid this kind of confusion that was previously described in the above post. I want to get straight to the point when discussing a consult with another provider, if they want to know more about my background we can discuss that at a later time when the surgery has been completed and we are communicating to each other outpatient care.

The fact of the matter is no one in the medical community has 100% understanding of what we do because A podiatrist is not a podiatrist is not a podiatrist. Some do surgery, some don't do any surgery, some are "sports medicine specialists", some are "limb salvage specialists", some like treating pediatric patients while some refuse to see pediatric patients, some like to do nail care and orthotics well some don't do either. We are a very confusing profession.

On top of all of this we have multiple board exams that a podiatrist can take and be "board-certified". The two main ones are ABFAS and ABPM but then there are many other smaller types of board exams that were created so that podiatrists who failed to pass those previously mentioned board exams could find a back door in to practicing podiatry.

Lastly the ABFAS and ABPM board exams are not even recognized by the American Board of medical specialties!

So somehow the ABFAS and ABPM board organizations were able to convince the majority of our profession that these boards were necessary to practice podiatry even though they are not recognized by the American Board of medical specialties.

Crazy, don't you think?

So before others cast judgment on others on how they want to present themselves in the medical community and in the public they should take a good look in the mirror and appreciate everything that goes on with our profession and understand how complicated we really are.



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Good point. I find myself doing a bit of both. I prefer to introduce myself as a podiatrist, but when some patients start to question what my limitations are, I'll say that I'm also a foot and ankle surgeon and try to move the conversation towards what needs to be done to take care of the patient rather than explain the complicated evolution of podiatry. If another physician questions my limitations, then I'll say "yea most podiatrists nowadays are trained to do foot and ankle surgery" and try to move on. Most follow-up questions would be along the lines of "how high up do you go?" in which I'll say "the tibial tuberosity". I guess I could start mastering my spiel of how scope is also complicated, depending on which state, I can do soft tissue up to the hip which is handy for taking skin grafts, or even do hand surgery in Alaska!

 

[NatCh]

I prefer to introduce myself as a podiatrist, but when some patients start to question what my limitations are, I'll say that I'm also a foot and ankle surgeon and try to move the conversation towards what needs to be done to take care of the patient rather than explain the complicated evolution of podiatry.

That's similar to how I do it. I introduce myself as a podiatrist then if/when it comes up I'll make it known that I do surgery. I don't really find myself needing to communicate the fact urgently, but I'm chill like that.

 

[dtrack22]

In our hospital, podiatry is the foot and ankle service within the ortho dept. so we typically put "foot and ankle surgery" in notes and answer pages with "this is dtrack with foot and ankle returning a page." This is primarily to ingrain in the ED attendings' and residents' heads that anything foot and ankle related comes to us, including the trauma that comes through. It's never been an issue here and because of that I tend to use the term podiatry more than the other residents (maybe I too, am chill like that?)...but I think in training situations with other residency programs it's great to get them in the mindset of "podiatrists can take care of anything related to the foot and ankle, including some pretty darn complex surgical cases." We have the largest family medicine program in the country (20 some residents per year) and 12 ED residents per year that graduate and don't really know anything else. That's not to say that they will all go out in practice and start sending everything to a local podiatrist but I think the fact that it will most likely cross their minds is beneficial to our profession.

After years and years of standardized residency training that are increasingly moving into larger academic centers, I think some of the problems people seem to be having with inferiority complexes or feeling the need to explain our abilities will become increasingly rare.

 

[I post PRN]

In our hospital, podiatry is the foot and ankle service within the ortho dept. so we typically put "foot and ankle surgery" in notes and answer pages with "this is dtrack with foot and ankle returning a page." This is primarily to ingrain in the ED attendings' and residents' heads that anything foot and ankle related comes to us, including the trauma that comes through. It's never been an issue here and because of that I tend to use the term podiatry more than the other residents (maybe I too, am chill like that?)...but I think in training situations with other residency programs it's great to get them in the mindset of "podiatrists can take care of anything related to the foot and ankle, including some pretty darn complex surgical cases." We have the largest family medicine program in the country (20 some residents per year) and 12 ED residents per year that graduate and don't really know anything else. That's not to say that they will all go out in practice and start sending everything to a local podiatrist but I think the fact that it will most likely cross their minds is beneficial to our profession.

After years and years of standardized residency training that are increasingly moving into larger academic centers, I think some of the problems people seem to be having with inferiority complexes or feeling the need to explain our abilities will becoming increasingly rare.

To touch on the last half of what dTrack is saying, my dad graduated from podiatry school in 1983, it was way different then, and podiatry was very very much the red headed step child of medicine. We have come a long way, and it's only going to continue to get better.