Would a Post-bacc program really help??

[Kazavana]

Hey guys,

I’ll give you a quick run down of my situation and ask for your advice. I’ve been an undergrad for 5 years, currently a graduating senior. For the first 3 years of my undergrad career, my family and I had a tough financial situation. I had to work 30-60 hours per week (averaging 45). Two years ago, though, my family was able to get out of this financial rut and I was able to quit my jobs.

Since then I:

Have been on the deans list with the lowest semester GPA being a 3.65
Am graduating with Honors in Math and Natural Sciences
Received an NIH Minority Research Scholarship (1 of 3 students from my school)
Volunteered @ a local ambulance corps as an EMT (2 years so far)
Volunteered @ Local Hospitals ED (2 years so far)
Conducted Clinical Research @ the same hospital (2 years so far)
Conducted Bench Research @ a lab in my school – currently working on a paper to be published (2 years so far)
Presented my research (bench) @ various regional and national conferences (sometimes being the only undergrad in the conference)
Co-Founded the first community service based club on my campus (Club VP) – we conduct various community service events
Got a 37 on my MCAT!

BUT

My cumulative GPA is a 3.18
BCMP GPA is a 2.96
Have 2 F’s on my record (1 of them was Gen Chem 2 – have recently taken retaken classes and got A and A-) and a C- in Orgo 2

Currently I:
Got accepted into my schools Masters Program
Got accepted for a 2 year NSF Masters Research Scholarship
Got accepted into Columbia Univ. Medical Center’s Summer Research Program
Am contemplating applying to med school this year or next year

The dilemma is that, from the research I’ve done on these forums, a masters program (even a 4.0 on it) would not help my GPA and thus my chances of getting into med school. It seems a post-bacc program would be the best option (SMP deadlines in my area have passed- plus they are expensive). What concerns me though is the extent to which my GPA would improve with the post-bacc. I am very confident that I can do very well in a post-bacc or masters program. What do you guys recommend? Is there another option that I am overlooking? Am I misinformed?

I really appreciate any feedback/opinions that you guys may have to offer! Thanks a head of time to those who take the time to reply!

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[fireflygirl]

Hey guys,

I’ll give you a quick run down of my situation and ask for your advice. I’ve been an undergrad for 5 years, currently a graduating senior. For the first 3 years of my undergrad career, my family and I had a tough financial situation. I had to work 30-60 hours per week (averaging 45). Two years ago, though, my family was able to get out of this financial rut and I was able to quit my jobs.

Since then I:

Have been on the deans list with the lowest semester GPA being a 3.65
Am graduating with Honors in Math and Natural Sciences
Received an NIH Minority Research Scholarship (1 of 3 students from my school)
Volunteered @ a local ambulance corps as an EMT (2 years so far)
Volunteered @ Local Hospitals ED (2 years so far)
Conducted Clinical Research @ the same hospital (2 years so far)
Conducted Bench Research @ a lab in my school – currently working on a paper to be published (2 years so far)
Presented my research (bench) @ various regional and national conferences (sometimes being the only undergrad in the conference)
Co-Founded the first community service based club on my campus (Club VP) – we conduct various community service events
Got a 37 on my MCAT!

BUT

My cumulative GPA is a 3.18
BCMP GPA is a 2.96
Have 2 F’s on my record (1 of them was Gen Chem 2 – have recently taken retaken classes and got A and A-) and a C- in Orgo 2

Currently I:
Got accepted into my schools Masters Program
Got accepted for a 2 year NSF Masters Research Scholarship
Got accepted into Columbia Univ. Medical Center’s Summer Research Program
Am contemplating applying to med school this year or next year

The dilemma is that, from the research I’ve done on these forums, a masters program (even a 4.0 on it) would not help my GPA and thus my chances of getting into med school. It seems a post-bacc program would be the best option (SMP deadlines in my area have passed- plus they are expensive). What concerns me though is the extent to which my GPA would improve with the post-bacc. I am very confident that I can do very well in a post-bacc or masters program. What do you guys recommend? Is there another option that I am overlooking? Am I misinformed?

I really appreciate any feedback/opinions that you guys may have to offer! Thanks a head of time to those who take the time to reply!

Despite your financial situation I think you've done quite well for yourself so congratulations on all your achievements!!!

Ok so we need to work on those GPAs - specifically the BCPM. Now what classes have you taken that contribute to that? Have you taken all your pre-reqs? Because if you have, then you'll have to find a special sciences type post-bac where you can take higher level courses to add to your BCPM. Check out Penn's Special Sciences to see what I am talking about (http://www.sas.upenn.edu/CGS/postbac/premed/specialscience/)

Another thing to consider is retaking the other course that you got your F in only because with DO schools, there's a nice grade forgiveness option where AACOMAS will calculate your BCPM with the higher of the two grades for any classes that you retake and for you that could help out a lot with increasing your BCPM.

Finally, I would try to PM TexasTriathalete because he has really risen from some hard times and a low GPA and is going to start medical school at PCOM-GA this summer. He might be able to offer you some great advice on how to turn things around. It's not going to be easy but if you really want this, just stay focused and do well and you'll do it! Best of luck

 

[akwizeguy]

Despite your financial situation I think you've done quite well for yourself so congratulations on all your achievements!!!

Ok so we need to work on those GPAs - specifically the BCPM. Now what classes have you taken that contribute to that? Have you taken all your pre-reqs? Because if you have, then you'll have to find a special sciences type post-bac where you can take higher level courses to add to your BCPM. Check out Penn's Special Sciences to see what I am talking about (http://www.sas.upenn.edu/CGS/postbac/premed/specialscience/)

Another thing to consider is retaking the other course that you got your F in only because with DO schools, there's a nice grade forgiveness option where AACOMAS will calculate your BCPM with the higher of the two grades for any classes that you retake and for you that could help out a lot with increasing your BCPM.

Finally, I would try to PM TexasTriathalete because he has really risen from some hard times and a low GPA and is going to start medical school at PCOM-GA this summer. He might be able to offer you some great advice on how to turn things around. It's not going to be easy but if you really want this, just stay focused and do well and you'll do it! Best of luck

I just wanted to clarify what the above poster said regarding AACOMAS gpa calculation- They take The most RECENT retake grade when calculating, not the highest.

 

[Chauffeur2MD]

I have to agree with Fireflygirl. You definitely have the ECs, clinical and research experience to impress the adcoms. The challenge is the GPA. Definitely don't touch an SMP. As soon as you do, your undergrad GPA is set in stone. I think that the best option is a special science postbac (there are many others besides Penn, but that is a good one) or just to take some upper level science courses somewhere independently. The only thing that will [almost] make up for subpar science grades as an undergrad is stellar performance in upper-level science classes, because the comprehension of that material depends on understanding the basics. If you can, do one of the research programs that you got into and take some of these upper-level courses at the best nearby college you can find (e.g., Columbia).

Good luck!

 

[Chauffeur2MD]

P.S. It's not really your overall GPA that you should be concerned about. In your case, they will probably take a closer look at individual grades and the overall trend. That is, do your recent grades make up for the early ones? Some schools may have implicit GPA cutoffs, and for those there is not much to do. But I think that many will take a closer look at your app, especially because of your excellent MCAT score (congrats, BTW!). Just make sure that they know that you are not just a smart, lazy person, but that your personal circumstances were the major factor. I think a lot of adcoms are inclined to think smart+lazy when they see high MCATs and lower GPA.

 

[fireflygirl]

I just wanted to clarify what the above poster said regarding AACOMAS gpa calculation- They take The most RECENT retake grade when calculating, not the highest.

Oops! Thanks for clarifying....

 

[Kazavana]

WOW guys! Thanks a million for the replies!

I have another question in regards to the Science GPA. I've taken a research course for every semester for the past 2 years. This is not a lecture class, its receiving credit for being in the lab a minimum number of hours and a report of your progress at the end of the semester. Do these kinds of classes count towards your science GPA? (i didn't include them)

With regards to the F's(only 2 of them), I've retaken the classes and have gotten A and A- (this past year). I've taken all the prereqs and the general trend is the following - first 3 years my gpa oscillated b/w 1.8 and 3.7 averaging out a 2.75-2.8. There was a definite correlation between # of credits and GPA. Last 2 years its been steady b/w 3.65-3.9 with the Correlation broken as the highest GPA was achieved during the semester with the most credits. The last 2 years have been filled with upper level courses. I want to continue this trend. I figured I could continue this trend as a graduate student in a masters program as the graduate level courses are more demanding than the undergrad courses. This is where the confusion comes to play, I still don't understand how upper level undergraduate courses are more valuable than graduate courses.

The other dilemma this is bringing is financing for continuing my education. I can afford the masters program at my school (scholarship pays full tuition) but cannot afford SMP's for sure. I live in the NYC tristate area (DON'T LIVE HERE UNLESS YOU HAVE A NICE CAREER!) so my best options are the non structured postbacc programs in CUNY. Thus financially speaking its better to go with the masters program and continue the research and all the EC's. I've yet to look at the financial aid available for postbaccs and thus unsure of what that road may lead to. Due to a very unique situation I'm not eligible for federal financial aid (FAFSA). I would either need scholarships, loans (limited) or work. I'd hate to have to work again. Although I've read postbacc classes are held at night making life easier when you work.

How do people traditionally finance postbacc education?

 

[Maxprime]

Do these kinds of classes count towards your science GPA? (i didn't include them)

If it has a science department's prefix (like BIO 468) then I believe it counts in your science GPA.

This is where the confusion comes to play, I still don't understand how upper level undergraduate courses are more valuable than graduate courses.

Graduate courses are listed in a separate GPA - Undergrad (UG) is separated into fresh/soph/junior/senior/post-bacc and then a whole separate graduate GPA. Since graduate classes are generally considered a necessary evil and getting anything less than a B is akin to failing them, most schools give little weight to your graduate GPA. Also, most applicants don't have graduate GPAs and therefore it's difficult to compare people with them. I'm a good example - I have a 4.0 in grad school and everyone could care less.

 

[fireflygirl]

How do people traditionally finance postbacc education?

There is always financial aid and loans. Also, if you work for the university if they happen to have a university hospital you can get your classes paid for. Other hospitals in the area may also have tuition reimbursement. You may only get a few classes covered at one time but since you've done your pre-reqs already you don't need as many classes to help your GPA so it might be worthwhile to be a part time student and work so that you can get them paid for.