Working for the armed forces as a civilian dentist

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SAban

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I am a 4th year dental student and have found some listings on USAjobs.com.

Looks to me like you can pick your place of work (US or overseas) and the pay seems pretty competitive.
Is anyone doing this or know somebody that is? I would like to know if you have the last word on where you want to go (ie Germany or Japan)?

How is the life of a civilian dentist overseas? Do you still get to live on base?

Thanks for any input on this.

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I'm not sure about oversees, but stateside it is run through a contractor service. There are several contractors like CNI (Chickeshaw Nation something or other). My advice would be to contact the base, post you are interested in, ask which contractor service has the contract for that post. Then ask for their contact information. Things maybe different oversees.

The crappier the location the better the pay. Just look at Lawton Oklahoma :smuggrin: (ft sill)

Sorry Sooner Fan, nothing personal OKC's a nice place to visit.
 
I am a 4th year dental student and have found some listings on USAjobs.com.

Looks to me like you can pick your place of work (US or overseas) and the pay seems pretty competitive.
Is anyone doing this or know somebody that is? I would like to know if you have the last word on where you want to go (ie Germany or Japan)?

How is the life of a civilian dentist overseas? Do you still get to live on base?

Thanks for any input on this.

The Army will not accept any civilian dentist that does not have at least 1 year of experience.

There are 2 kinds of civilian dentists that work for the military - Governement Service (GS) and Contract. Contractors get paid a little more, but the benefits and job security are not there. Contractors do not work for the governemnt directly so they are not entitled to many of the benefits that the military or governemnt employees get. Housing will be on your own - government only provides housing for military.

For anyone with more than a year post dental school I can get you the contact info for the company that has the contract.
 
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I just read your post, so this may be too late to be of any use to you.

I am a DoD civilian dentist working in Japan. I found this position on USAJobs and followed the process described there. I was specifically recruited for my current location (Japan). I work for the local Navy dental command and my period of employment is for two years, renewable for up to five. Not sure what happens after five years - I have been told not to worry because if I wanted to stay I probably could. When it comes time for me to leave if I wish to continue as a civil service employee I would have first choice of any open federal dentist jobs elsewhere (if there are any). So job security seems pretty good if want to make government service a long term career.

I am definitely a permanent civilian employee (not a contractor). I do not work for a job contracting service, nor was I recruited by a contractor. My direct employer is the U.S. government (the Department of the Navy, a branch of the Department of Defense). Technically, I am under the NSPS system for civil service (look it up - lots of stuff on the Internet). The former GS system is being phased out. The main differences between NSPS and GS are pay grade steps and the evaluation/promotion and bonus process. I can't really compare the two systems because I have only been NSPS. I believe for the first year of my employment I am on a "trial" basis, which is an escape clause for DoN in case I turn out to be grossly incompetent. So far they haven't threatened to fire me :).

I have previous experience as a general dentist, so I had a "track record" they could look at during my hiring process. The requirements (education and experience) for the DoD civilian dentist jobs were posted on USAJobs but I can't remember specifically what they were. The application process was long - it took about 10 months to complete and I had to keep checking back to let them know I was still alive :sleep:. Lots of paperwork, emails, faxes, etc. I had several part time jobs in the interim so I wasn't starving, and I didn't have any school loans to pay off.

I took a chance on the overseas government job but I am happy to say that it has worked out pretty well so far. I enjoy my life overseas and my wife likes Okinawa. Japan is great. In addition to my base salary I am eligible to receive an offbase housing allowance (currently up to a maximum of $55K a year). And I receive a "post allowance" (currently about $600 a month I believe) that is pegged to the local currency exchange rate. This gets me a very nice living accommodation offbase and some living expense money while I can also save a good portion of my base salary. I could have chosen to live in military housing onbase, but after comparing the two I elected to live in town. I live in a high rise apartment building with a nice view of the ocean :D. I'm within walking distance of a number of restaurants and shopping. The municipal bus stops near my apartment if I need to use it. My apartment is a 12 minute drive from the dental clinic. I ride my bicycle sometimes. The weather is great most of the year but it's hot during July and August.

I have SOFA status in Japan (SOFA = Status of Forces Agreement with the Japan government). I have a government ID card that gets me onto the bases and into government facilities, just like any active duty military servicemember. I receive commissary and exchange privileges and housing privileges for myself and my family members. I receive about 13 days of paid vacation a year :( (not enough) and 13 days of paid sick leave (I will never use all of it) plus paid national holidays. If I stick it out, in a few years the number of annual paid vacation days increases.

In addition, I get all the benefits any federal employee receives (TSP, FERS, optional health insurance, life insurance, etc.). A special benefit I receive as a dentist is continuing education. I receive one funded CE course per year (they pay my airfare, hotel, and enrollment fees) back to a CONUS CE course. I also receive one unfunded CE course per year (they give me time off from work but I have to pay any transportation and lodging fees myself). I'm getting ready to attend the Hinman meeting this month at the Navy's expense.

My life as a DoD dentist is pretty good so far. A negative might be that I work fairly hard. My week usually consists of 40 hours of chairside dentistry and I see anywhere from 18 to 30 patients (restorative dentistry plus a lot of exams) during an 8 hour day. I work one restorative chair and two exam/RDH chairs as well as oral diagnosis/sick call rooms sometimes. I work longer hours (usually) and don't get the bigger bonuses that military dentists receive but I'm happy. Oh yes, one benefit in my situation is that I don't have to see after hours emergency patients. But that varies from location to location. I talked to a DoN dentist back in CONUS who did have to treat after hours emergencies, which was a bone of contention because he didn't like the remuneration for his after hours work. Not sure if it made any difference, but I made a point of telling them I didn't want to work after hours, and my evenings and weekends are free :thumbup: .

PM me if you have any specific questions you think I might be able to answer.
 
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Sir, do you have a list of contracting companies for dentists working OCOUNS in asian, Japan, Korea etc???


The Army will not accept any civilian dentist that does not have at least 1 year of experience.

There are 2 kinds of civilian dentists that work for the military - Governement Service (GS) and Contract. Contractors get paid a little more, but the benefits and job security are not there. Contractors do not work for the governemnt directly so they are not entitled to many of the benefits that the military or governemnt employees get. Housing will be on your own - government only provides housing for military.

For anyone with more than a year post dental school I can get you the contact info for the company that has the contract.
 
Without the assistance for living or housing allowances, what's the average civilian general dentists salary?
 
Without the assistance for living or housing allowances, what's the average civilian general dentists salary?

If you are a contract dentist it will depend on the company and location. The same company does not pay the same salary at all locations. Places that are popular and easy to fill get less, places that are tougher get more. There are 3-4 contract companies that hire for military facilities, so it also depends on who you work for. You can contact them directly - do a google search. I don't remember all the company names, but you have spectrum-aurora and CNI that are two of them.

As far as civilian, it can also vary. Typically for those positions they are looking for a dentist with quite a bit of experience.
 
The Army will not accept any civilian dentist that does not have at least 1 year of experience.

There are 2 kinds of civilian dentists that work for the military - Governement Service (GS) and Contract. Contractors get paid a little more, but the benefits and job security are not there. Contractors do not work for the governemnt directly so they are not entitled to many of the benefits that the military or governemnt employees get. Housing will be on your own - government only provides housing for military.

For anyone with more than a year post dental school I can get you the contact info for the company that has the contract.

Sir,

As cool as Government Service sounds...GS actually stands for "General Schedule." This is their pay scale which shows levels and Steps. A comparison would be GS 4 vs GS 12...the 12 will make more...and then the steps come into play based on years in service...similar to our rank/time payscale..
 
Sir,

As cool as Government Service sounds...GS actually stands for "General Schedule." This is their pay scale which shows levels and Steps. A comparison would be GS 4 vs GS 12...the 12 will make more...and then the steps come into play based on years in service...similar to our rank/time payscale..

Thanks for the clarification.. The pay scale used now for dentists is the NSPS which does not have an easily read pay scale like the one you mentioned. It is variable based on location, additional duties (OIC), and performance.
 
Thanks for the clarification.. The pay scale used now for dentists is the NSPS which does not have an easily read pay scale like the one you mentioned. It is variable based on location, additional duties (OIC), and performance.


Wow..that is cool...I didn't know that...adding duties and such...good idea!

How is EFMB?
 
The two main companies are:

Med National
http://www.mednational.com

and

Chickasaw Nation Industries
http://www.chickasaw.com/index.cfm?content=careers/careers

Pay varies depending on location and your experience. Jobs like these are east to find at large installations (Hood, Benning, Gordon, Bragg). Tons of paperwork to get you cleared, and it takes weeks. Starting pay in my area is $125,000 I think. It was a little less than $100,000 5 years ago when I looked myself.

These are contract jobs, so I don't think there are any benefits at all. A GS position (as searched in usajobs.gov) does have benefits as krmower stated above.
 
I just found this forum and this post - hope I'm not too late to join in the discussion:

Has anyone worked as a military civilian orthodontist abroad? I'd love to hear about your experiences.

And does anyone know of the contracting companies for Military bases in Belgium, Italy or Germany?

Is working for SHAPE/Nato (in Belgium) part of the US Military? And do they contract with civilian dentists?

Thank you!
 
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I just found this forum and this post - hope I'm not too late to join in the discussion:

Has anyone worked as a military civilian orthodontist abroad? I'd love to hear about your experiences.

And does anyone know of the contracting companies for Military bases in Belgium, Italy or Germany?

Is working for SHAPE/Nato (in Belgium) part of the US Military? And do they contract with civilian dentists?

Thank you!

Here is the information for the company that currently has the contract.

TCMP
OCONUS-General Dentists, Pediatric Dentists, Orthodontists, and dental hygienists
Mr Tom Rodgers
703-541-4577
[email protected]
 
I was recently told that if I work for the Navy for 20 years on active duty and then retire I could then sign up to become a civilian dentist for the public health service. Then, after just 10 years, I could retire again and the public health service would have to pay me retirement as if I worked 30 years while I also collect a 20 year retirement from the Navy. Sounds too good to be true right? So, does anyone know if this is bs or what?
 
I was recently told that if I work for the Navy for 20 years on active duty and then retire I could then sign up to become a civilian dentist for the public health service. Then, after just 10 years, I could retire again and the public health service would have to pay me retirement as if I worked 30 years while I also collect a 20 year retirement from the Navy. Sounds too good to be true right? So, does anyone know if this is bs or what?

As I understand it is not correct. When you start any federal job and have prior military service time, you can "buy back" that time for retirement purposes. (Payment is about 3.25% of you base pay for each year).

If you want double retirement you need to earn it through a work time. If you "buy back" your military time, you will not be able to receive military retirement, but these years will count towards federal retirement.

FERS Retirement Overview (Federal Employees Retirement System)
http://www.myfederalretirement.com/public/department38.cfm

FERS: Military Service Credit (Military Service "Buy-Back")
http://www.myfederalretirement.com/public/177.cfm
 
I am a 4th year dental student and have found some listings on USAjobs.com.

Looks to me like you can pick your place of work (US or overseas) and the pay seems pretty competitive.
Is anyone doing this or know somebody that is? I would like to know if you have the last word on where you want to go (ie Germany or Japan)?

How is the life of a civilian dentist overseas? Do you still get to live on base?

Thanks for any input on this.
SAban: I was an Army dentist in Germany for two yrs. and I lived off-post. It was probably the best move I ever made. Germany is rich in history, culture and activities with other interesting countries a short travel.
 
The army in germany treats contract dentists like ****. i worked there for 5 years and the only reason i did so was to travel and pay off my student loans. we, contract scum, were treated badly at every opportunity. if you have thick skin and don't mind being treated like a 2nd class citizen, then go for it, but im telling you it is not fun. i would give specific details but do not wish to identify myself... but i will say this, the idiot who picked me up at the airport told me on the way to my base that the only reason he kept that job as company rep in germany was to stay in germany himself. he said if i had any problem DONT CALL HIM, he didn't care and didn't want to hear from me. that was day ONE! HAHA so good luck if you do it.
 
2 types of civilian dentists - Contract and GS Civilian. GS Civilian work directly for the government - have the opportunity for a pension, and have job protection and safe guards in place. Contract dentists work for a company that contracts with the government (as alluded to in this post). A contract dentists can not participate in some events that GS and military dentists can do (like CE and many social functions). There are approximately 5 contracting companies that the military uses with 2 of them being more predominant. GS Civilian jobs are advertised at USAjobs.gov. Contracting jobs are found through the contracting company. Contractors have no government benefits - because they don't work directly for the government. Much different than a GS civilian - contract jobs can be terminated when the need ends, or if there are concerns over the performance of the employee.
 
The army in germany treats contract dentists like ****. i worked there for 5 years and the only reason i did so was to travel and pay off my student loans. we, contract scum, were treated badly at every opportunity. if you have thick skin and don't mind being treated like a 2nd class citizen, then go for it, but im telling you it is not fun. i would give specific details but do not wish to identify myself... but i will say this, the idiot who picked me up at the airport told me on the way to my base that the only reason he kept that job as company rep in germany was to stay in germany himself. he said if i had any problem DONT CALL HIM, he didn't care and didn't want to hear from me. that was day ONE! HAHA so good luck if you do it.
You gave an example of why your contract company that you worked for sucked - why was working for the Army such a horrible experience?
 
Army civilian Dentistry !!!! Watch out !!!! They are cruel !!! you will be treated like DIRT !!!!! is not worth the low pay or benefits.. You will be treated as a second class citizen. you have no rights and no say so in anything. mass dental exams 35-40 per day or more... mostly restorative work. The enlisted army dentists take all the crowns, bridges , surgery, endo. , regardless of your experience and theirs... etc... you do the grunt work !!!!!!! when the work day is over say 430pm. even though you have finished all work, they make you wait until exactly 430 to walk out the door. you have to ask for permission to step outside the building. the dental officers(commanders and others) for the most part, are power hungry control freaks and you are a stepping stone for their career advancement. BEWARE!!!!! Only choose these jobs if are financially desperate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Army civilian Dentistry !!!! Watch out !!!! They are cruel !!! you will be treated like DIRT !!!!! is not worth the low pay or benefits.. You will be treated as a second class citizen. you have no rights and no say so in anything. mass dental exams 35-40 per day or more... mostly restorative work. The enlisted army dentists take all the crowns, bridges , surgery, endo. , regardless of your experience and theirs... etc... you do the grunt work !!!!!!! when the work day is over say 430pm. even though you have finished all work, they make you wait until exactly 430 to walk out the door. you have to ask for permission to step outside the building. the dental officers(commanders and others) for the most part, are power hungry control freaks and you are a stepping stone for their career advancement. BEWARE!!!!! Only choose these jobs if are financially desperate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Enlisted Dentists? Obviously this guy is not a dentist...
 
Enlisted Dentists? Obviously this guy is not a dentist...
V
Enlisted Dentists? Obviously this guy is not a dentist...[/quote
Enlisted Dentists? Obviously this guy is not a dentist...[/quote and you are obviously enlisted. What a joke! Do you like the low military pay? School loan repay? Brain washing? Military dentistry is pathetic because Full scope dentistry is not possible and/or is far and few in between. Keep patting yourself on the back while u r riding that high horse u r on. You will eventually learn what I am saying is true. Enjoy those mass exams for deployments and redeployments!!!! Also, you will be a pro at hygiene when you retire :)
 
I am a 4th year dental student and have found some listings on USAjobs.com.

Looks to me like you can pick your place of work (US or overseas) and the pay seems pretty competitive.
Is anyone doing this or know somebody that is? I would like to know if you have the last word on where you want to go (ie Germany or Japan)?

How is the life of a civilian dentist overseas? Do you still get to live on base?

Thanks for any input on this.
You need to stay away from anything military!!!!! The travel to another country is appealing, but the military treats the contractors horrible... You are hired by a contract company but work for the military.. You have no representation and no say so in anything. Your will be required to produce produce produce at their beckon call. On call after hours very often. Low pay.. Told when u can come and go. Been there and done that!!!!! Beware !!!!!! You will be treated not as a colleague but as dirt and a stepping stone!!!!!!!!
 
The army in germany treats contract dentists like ****. i worked there for 5 years and the only reason i did so was to travel and pay off my student loans. we, contract scum, were treated badly at every opportunity. if you have thick skin and don't mind being treated like a 2nd class citizen, then go for it, but im telling you it is not fun. i would give specific details but do not wish to identify myself... but i will say this, the idiot who picked me up at the airport told me on the way to my base that the only reason he kept that job as company rep in germany was to stay in germany himself. he said if i had any problem DONT CALL HIM, he didn't care and didn't want to hear from me. that was day ONE! HAHA so good luck if you do it.


Amen to that !!! they treat dental contractors worse than they do GS or NSPS Dentists!!!! I had a horrible experience as a contractor and as a GS Dentist ! Sounds like you are talking about our mutual "friend"? Carney :)
 
The army in germany treats contract dentists like ****. i worked there for 5 years and the only reason i did so was to travel and pay off my student loans. we, contract scum, were treated badly at every opportunity. if you have thick skin and don't mind being treated like a 2nd class citizen, then go for it, but im telling you it is not fun. i would give specific details but do not wish to identify myself... but i will say this, the idiot who picked me up at the airport told me on the way to my base that the only reason he kept that job as company rep in germany was to stay in germany himself. he said if i had any problem DONT CALL HIM, he didn't care and didn't want to hear from me. that was day ONE! HAHA so good luck if you do it.

Carney !!!! sounds just like him !!!!! :) military treats all who are not enlisted etc.. like dirt !!!!
 
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