Women or gays in Urology?

[RexKD]

How common is it for women or gays to enter urology?

No offense with the question, I'm interested in learning more about the demographics of those entering the field.

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[hans19]

How common is it for women or gays to enter urology?

No offense with the question, I'm interested in learning more about the demographics of those entering the field.

Of all the sophmoric questions you have asked today, this has got to be the most ridiculous. I mean where are you going with that question?

Ask yourself, do you think it is odd for men to go into OB/GYN? Or for there to be male nurses? You will likely see women, gays (and even minorities! ) in all fields of medicine. Just like you will see women, gays, minorities, in most any other profession.

Though the field of medicine in general, and especially surgery, has traditionally been a WASPy male dominated field, this is not really the case these days. The medical establishment tends to be conservative, and you may still find pockets of 'good ole' old boy' inertia at a few programs.

 

[RexKD]

Of all the sophmoric questions you have asked today, this has got to be the most ridiculous. I mean where are you going with that question?

Ask yourself, do you think it is odd for men to go into OB/GYN? Or for there to be male nurses? You will likely see women, gays (and even minorities! ) in all fields of medicine. Just like you will see women, gays, minorities, in most any other profession.

Though the field of medicine in general, and especially surgery, has traditionally been a WASPy male dominated field, this is not really the case these days. The medical establishment tends to be conservative, and you may still find pockets of 'good ole' old boy' inertia at a few programs.

My sophmoric questions? It's ironic how you can't even spell "sophomoric" properly. Maybe instead of criticizing others you should spend a little time educating yourself.

The percentage of women and homosexuals in urology is a valid question. Maybe mentioning homosexuality has put you on the defensive somehow? Don't worry -- there's nothing wrong with that!

 

[hans19]

My sophmoric questions? It's ironic how you can't even spell "sophomoric" properly. Maybe instead of criticizing others you should spend a little time educating yourself.

The percentage of women and homosexuals in urology is a valid question. Maybe mentioning homosexuality has put you on the defensive somehow? Don't worry -- there's nothing wrong with that!

I never said there was anything wrong with being a gay or a woman, but the way you posed the question, the implication is made that women and gays are some how out of place in Urology.

I am criticizing you because thats an irrelavent question. 'Not to be offensive' but here's a 'valid' question. Who gives a sh-- how many women or gays there are in urology? And why do YOU care? If there is any one being defensive, its you. I suspect you feel insecure around women and you feel your masculinity is threatened by homosexuals.

 

[RexKD]

"the implication is made that women and gays are some how out of place in Urology."

You were the one who made the inference.

The question is valid because the inherant sexuality of that area of the body may be an obstacle for female or male homosexual doctors. It's just as relevant as asking what percentage of men enter Ob/Gyn. Men entering Ob/Gyn are exposed to the same as issues as women and male homosexuals entering urology. In fact, many have said that the reluctance of some female patients to allow male medical students to examine them has dissuaded men from considering Ob/Gyn as a speciality. It's likely that a similar phenomenon occurs in urology.

Instead of being rational you ramble about WASPs and even label my question as "sophmoric [sic]."

 

[hans19]

"the implication is made that women and gays are some how out of place in Urology."

You were the one who made the inference.

The question is valid because the inherant sexuality of that area of the body may be an obstacle for female or male homosexual doctors. It's just as relevant as asking what percentage of men enter Ob/Gyn. Men entering Ob/Gyn are exposed to the same as issues as women and male homosexuals entering urology. In fact, many have said that the reluctance of some female patients to allow male medical students to examine them has dissuaded men from considering Ob/Gyn as a speciality. It's likely that a similar phenomenon occurs in urology.

Instead of being rational you ramble about WASPs and even label my question as "sophmoric [sic]."

Clearly, you are an intelligent person. You ask a question when you obviously already know the answer. There are not as many women or gays in urology (or surgery) as there may be in other fields such as internal medicine, but they are there.

You seem to be on a spree of asking random questions, that an intelligent person should already know the answer to.

So, I've decided to help you out. Here are some answers to questions you are likely to ask...

Are there women and gays in the army? - Yes
Are there women and gay police officers? - Yes

Does it ever snow in July? Yes- It in the Andes.

Are there Arabs in the Israeli army? Yes- but not many.
There are also women and there are probably gays in the Israeli army.

 

[conrad]

Can't speak for gays, but the percentage of women residents and applying is provided by FREIDA and the AUA. According to FREIDA, about 14% of the 1000 or so urology residents and about 5% of faculty members are female, and according to the AUA, between 60-70% of females match each year.

 

[RudyRayMoore]

Rex's question is appropriate. Women and gays are at a disadvantage when it comes to urology primarily because of male patients preferring male doctors. Men are at a disadvantage when it comes to Gyn. Open homosexuals are blacklisted by some PD's in Peds (I know one who told me this directly).

He asked about the demographics. Conrad was kind enough to provide the figures. 14% is much higher than I expected. There are no statistics about homosexuals; there are only anecdotal stories.

I hear similar questions all the time. Female med students always ask about the percentages of women in certain specialties. Minority applicants do as well.

If anything, hans19 owes Rex an apology for implying his question was sexist or homophobic. His response is equivalent to me shouting at a female med student when she asks me about the percentages of female med students at my program who go into Gyn: "Are you implying that men are somehow inferior?"

 

[hans19]

How common is it for women or gays to enter urology?

No offense with the question, I'm interested in learning more about the demographics of those entering the field.

Rex, I have been rude to you. For that I apologize.
There had been a post in another forum that went something like "Brain transplants - do you do them, and if not, why not?" I misjudged your intentions. It seems you are new to the field of medicine, are asking many questions out of curiosity.

Lets back up. Here is what I should have said.

It was once rare for women or gays to enter urology. It was also once uncommon, to see women and openly homosexual people, people of non-Christian faiths and minorities in the field of medicine, let alone most profession. It is still less common for women and openly gay people to enter the field of urology. I do not have percentages, but I would guess that about there are 15-20% of urology spots are filled by women. This is taking a wild guess, but probably there are slightly less gays in urology than in the greater population, because surgery has traditionally been a very 'macho' field and unfriendly friendly to women and gays.

The people that comprise medicine are a microcosm of our greater society. With the ever-progressive nature of our society, you will undoubtedly see more women and openly gay people in all specialties.

Here are some of the things I have observed while attending medical school and residency in the socially and politically conservative South: 40% of the urology residents at my institution are female. Even though the South is not popularly perceived as friendly to gays (like the West coast or Northeast), there are several openly gay medical students, residents, and attendings.

You are intelligent and articulate... and a great speller . It is no surprise that you already know most of the answers to the questions you ask. Again, sorry for being down right rude to you.

 

[f_w]

Someone mentions the word 'gay' and we have a knock-down-drag-out flamewar after 2 posts.

This must be a new SDN record !

 

[hans19]

Someone mentions the word 'gay' and we have a knock-down-drag-out flamewar after 2 posts.

This must be new SDN record !

GAY MARRIAGE....

Take cover!

 

[ptolemy]

GAY MARRIAGE....

Take cover!

since we're in the urology forum, is someone now going to mention a gay cystoscopy porn site?

 

[cyanocobalamin]

At my school there are two (out of 6) entire PGY classes that are entirely women, albeit there are only 2 PGY spots per year. Another PGY class is half female.

 

[njbmd]

How common is it for women or gays to enter urology?

No offense with the question, I'm interested in learning more about the demographics of those entering the field.

Hi there,
I am sure that there are just as many gays in urology in proportion to the numbers of gays in medicine. Gay people practice medicine as well as law, teaching etc. As for women, urology has been a traditional male-dominated surgical specialty but I have several female friends who are urologists. I have been fortunate to be at Virginia where women outnumber men in urology. I don't really see any difference. A good urologist is a good urologist gay, straight, male or female. I can definitely see the appeal of this specialty to women. Elegant surgical cases.
njbmd

 

[GMO2003]

I never said there was anything wrong with being a gay or a woman, but the way you posed the question, the implication is made that women and gays are some how out of place in Urology.

I am criticizing you because thats an irrelavent question. 'Not to be offensive' but here's a 'valid' question. Who gives a sh-- how many women or gays there are in urology? And why do YOU care? If there is any one being defensive, its you. I suspect you feel insecure around women and you feel your masculinity is threatened by homosexuals.

I agree...it shouldn't really matter...gay, straight, bi...as long as the individual is a good clinician and takes good care of the patient...that's all that matters

 

[logos]

There is a gay urologist in my hometown. He does just fine with his practice. I very much doubt that any of his patients even know he is gay. As long everyone is professional there should never be a problem.

 

[f_w]

And oh my gosh, I heard there are SEVERAL heterosexual OB/Gyns in our city !!

(This thread started out ******ed just to further deteriorate from there.)

 

[Milo]

Rex, I have been rude to you. For that I apologize.

I'm always impressed when someone is able to rethink their position on a matter and even concede an error, especially on an anonymous board. Very classy, kudos.

 

[bigfrank]

In Urology interviews, I'd be shocked if homosexuality vs. heterosexuality ever comes up. Now the female thing is more difficult to dodge.........

 

[helo doc]

Can't... resist..... must... make... junior-high level.... comment... okay, anyone else feel like a lesbian trapped in a man's body? Whew, I feel much much better now.

 

[Giving My .02]

Urology is not just all about male reproductive organs! I did research with some fellows in Urology one summer. Not because I was interested, but I loved my PI. Anyways, a lot of the women might go in the pediatric aspect. One of the attendings told me that. He said they are sometimes better at doing reconstructive surgery for children born with genital abnormalities. So, no it is not uncommon, but no women don't rule the field.

 

[LADoc00]

Clearly, you are an intelligent person. You ask a question when you obviously already know the answer. There are not as many women or gays in urology (or surgery) as there may be in other fields such as internal medicine, but they are there.

You seem to be on a spree of asking random questions, that an intelligent person should already know the answer to.

So, I've decided to help you out. Here are some answers to questions you are likely to ask...

Are there women and gays in the army? - Yes
Are there women and gay police officers? - Yes

Does it ever snow in July? Yes- It in the Andes.

Are there Arabs in the Israeli army? Yes- but not many.
There are also women and there are probably gays in the Israeli army.

Im gonna add to this..lets keep this going!

On rare occasions, do people show up to med school classes wearing a buttplug? Yes.

Do women masturbate with vegetables and try to return them back to fridge? Yes.

 

[cytoskelement]

In Urology interviews, I'd be shocked if homosexuality vs. heterosexuality ever comes up. Now the female thing is more difficult to dodge.........

Unless you're Pat!

This thread is sofa king wheat are did. I'd even imagine some "gays" (as you say) have infiltrated the CIA, the catholic church, your gym's locker room (yeah, that's right - they have eyed-up your rather small phallus and chuckled), maybe even youfr family. Get over yourself.

 

[cytoskelement]

He said they are sometimes better at doing reconstructive surgery for children born with genital abnormalities.

As opposed to who? I can't imagine a regular gyn would even attempt a pelvic floor reconstruction or an external genitalia reconstruction, nor should they. Its really not their job. I'd imagine they would defer to a urogynecologist (who is fellowship trained). Point is moot.

 

[Needleandthread]

There is a gay urologist in my hometown. He does just fine with his practice. I very much doubt that any of his patients even know he is gay. As long everyone is professional there should never be a problem.

I think it's hard to know how many gays there are. As far as women, it's easy to see how many women residents there are.

One male resident was so homophobic that I think he was actually gay or bisexual himself. He always wore tight, revealing scrub pants.

 

[mmmmdonuts]

One male resident was so homophobic that I think he was actually gay or bisexual himself.

you must be pretty confident to make such a stupid leap of logic in public.

He always wore tight, revealing scrub pants.

sounds like you enjoyed that.

 

[lateness]

Clearly, you are an intelligent person. You ask a question when you obviously already know the answer. There are not as many women or gays in urology (or surgery) as there may be in other fields such as internal medicine, but they are there.

You seem to be on a spree of asking random questions, that an intelligent person should already know the answer to.

So, I've decided to help you out. Here are some answers to questions you are likely to ask...

Are there women and gays in the army? - Yes
Are there women and gay police officers? - Yes

Does it ever snow in July? Yes- It in the Andes.

Are there Arabs in the Israeli army? Yes- but not many.
There are also women and there are probably gays in the Israeli army.

Very little arabs in the israeli army, and they usually enter b/c of advancement, money issues career; they arent required to enter like the jewish citizens are. they arent looked upon well by there fellow arabs.

 

[Needleandthread]

you must be pretty confident to make such a stupid leap of logic in public.



sounds like you enjoyed that.

It's true that violently anti-gay men often have some gay tendencies themselves. Ask a psychiatrist.

Enjoy it? Your comment is just like that idiot's comments. He falsely accused a lot of people, including me, of being gay when he was the one that wore weird fitting clothes.

 

[f_w]

It's true that violently anti-gay men often have some gay tendencies themselves. Ask a psychiatrist.

One could say that about men who notice the fit of clothes on other men

 

[Needleandthread]

One could say that about men who notice the fit of clothes on other men

Doctors who don't notice things about their patients can miss subtle hints of disease or disorders. Disgrunted patients have killed their doctors. So, it's in your best interest to notice everything about a patient.

As far as the tight pants, the idiot kept picking on me but stopped after a retort about his gay styled pants.

Your behavior gives surgeons a bad name. An innocent post and you attack. No wonder medical students don't want to go into surgery and surgical specialties.

 

[f_w]

Doctors who don't notice things about their patients can miss subtle hints of disease or disorders.

Thanks for the teaching point. The guy was your co-worker/superior, we are not talking about patients here.

As far as the tight pants, the idiot kept picking on me but stopped after a retort about his gay styled pants.

Very professional way to deal with this sexual harrassment situation

Your behavior gives surgeons a bad name.

Lucky me, not a surgeon.

An innocent post and you attack.

One post of homophobic b#)(*#$p and you'll get my opinion on it.

 

[SurgeryChef]

So would guys be OK with an attractive late-20s FEMALE urology resident examining their shlong???? many fellow male students say they would not like that - seems like it'd be a bigger issue than a male OB/Gyn examining a female patient from how people talk.

 

[f_w]

many fellow male students say they would not like that

The majority of the uro clientele is 65 and up. They don't seem to care when the 20 year old nursing student places their foley.

 

[mmmmdonuts]

Enjoy it? Your comment is just like that idiot's comments. He falsely accused a lot of people, including me, of being gay when he was the one that wore weird fitting clothes.

sounds like someone is being very defensive about their sexuality, usually a sign of insecurity about sexual orientation, according to psychiatrists.

 

[johnny_blaze]

hahaha i needed a good laugh today.. this thread was great.

 

[CTSballer11]

So would guys be OK with an attractive late-20s FEMALE urology resident examining their shlong???? many fellow male students say they would not like that - seems like it'd be a bigger issue than a male OB/Gyn examining a female patient from how people talk.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

No wonder medical students don't want to go into surgery and surgical specialties.

What world are you living in? Might want to check the match stats. ENT, Uro, Neurosurg, Plastics, and to a bit smaller extent General are all very competitive.

 

[ilovestewie]

This thread is why women laugh sooooo hard and soooo much at straight men and their "masculinity". goofy it is.... goofy as he11. I mean, why dont you guys just whip it out already? or maybe arm wrestle? ;-)

 

[Faebinder]

I'll never be a urologist.... but from a man's prespective.. if I needed a urologist.. I'd find a male urologist and wouldn't even think about going to a female urologist... Sorry lady urologists. Gay or straight doesn't affect my decision oddly.

 

[mysophobe]

I've been to a female urologist and a male urologist. I felt more comfortable with the male urologist, even though I saw him on a frequent basis (could be weirdness issues, but there weren't). Maybe if the woman was fugly it wouldn't have been a big deal, but she was quite the looker, so I was a little nervous about little me getting excited.

 

[flip a coin]

First off, let me just say that this is only my experience. Older men are often not PC. It is pretty common for them to make sexual comments directed toward the younger women. I was following a female urologist around and she was constently being pestered by the older men. After one of the exams, one guy said to the woman "after that exam I feel like we should go outside and have a smoke." In the same day another guy asked her if she wanted to join him for a bath and said they should exchange numbers. Of course, both of the men joking but the lady was as red as a beat.

So, if a woman cannot let a constant barrage of comments like that roll off her shoulder, it probably isn't the right field to go into.

 

[RRT2MD]

Just some side bar trivia.

I know a Gay retired Israeli Drill Seargent.

He told me that being Gay won't get one out of the required service time in thier country.

This is one wild thred!!!




~~RRT, NREMT-P

 

[ThatKidMike]

Well as a man, I must say, I would definitely go for a female urologist, but not past her 30s.

But where I live the only urologists are 70+ old jewish men, so it's no fun when they touch your meat.

 

[Deli422]

Well as a man, I must say, I would definitely go for a female urologist, but not past her 30s.

But where I live the only urologists are 70+ old jewish men, so it's no fun when they touch your meat.

I'd cut off my junk and go to a gynocologist

 

[henson]

There are more and more women in urology, so I think this is improving, and the numbers look set to increase, as more women are graduating from medical schools, and more women (in general) are interested in surgical specialities.
I am sure there is discrimination against homosexuals, and unlike women, there is really no way to say how they fair at interview time.

 

[Arthur12]

I've always thought it unusual for ANYONE to want to go into urology, especially women. Is it penis envy? I would not want to go to a female urologist if I had a penile condition. Why choose a profession where you constantly have to look at a penis? I can understand Ob/gyn because of the beauty of giving birth and all the joy that comes with delivering a baby, yata yata. But what is it about a penis that would make you want to make a career out of it? I understand there is more to urology than the penis, but let's face it, the penis is a big part of it no pun intended. If you're a man and want to be a surgeon, why not do general surg or ENT or orthopedics or anything that doesn't involve you looking at a penis for the rest of your life? I just don't get it. Is it lifestyle? If so, go into ENT or ophtho. Is it money? do ortho or neurosurg...I mean other surgeons make good money too and there are specialties that allow you to make good money and have a good lifestyle. So why go into a field where you stare at penises all day? Please enlighten me.

And if you're a woman, isn't it awkward to look at a male's sexual organ day in and day out? What do you talk about at the dinnertable with your husband..."oh honey, I saw a patient in clinic today who had an erection for 4 hours and it was just magnificent...pass the salt please".

But honestly, it is more understandable to me why a woman would enter this field, as odd as that sounds. As a heterosexual man, I find penises other than mine revolting and I never want to touch one. Why a red-blooded heterosexual male would want to make a career out of a penis is beyond me. But for a heterosexual woman, a penis is an attractive member of the opposite sex so I guess I can understand why they would choose this field...although I totally understand that in this setting you have to be professional and that you are not attracted to majority of your patients in that way. You have to be professional but hey, I think you understand what I"m saying here.

Please try to answer my questions instead of accusing me of being ignorant, or homophobic or anything other venom that I suspect some will throw may way. I genuinely want to understand the attraction to this field...lifestyle and money should not be reasons because as mentioned above other fields offer these as well. So there must be something inherent in this field that attracts some people and I'm trying to understand what it is.

 

[paean]

Arthur, I'm going to take your bait, although I can't but help feeling like you were mostly writing just to express your own opinions about how much you would dislike urology as you perceive it.

1. Very little of the average urologists day is spent looking at their patient's penises. In addition, a 4 hour erection is not "magnificent," it's priapism, which unless the patients wants to lose his penis to hypoxia, is a surgical emergency.

2. You clearly are not involved in clinical medicine right now, or you would realize how unlikely it is that a doctor enjoys thinking about any of their patients in a sexual way. We're way to busy thinking about other things, and even if we weren't, you only have to spend a few shifts in a medical clinic to realize how sexually uninteresting everyone is when they are talking about their medical problems. That includes when I've rotated through sexual dysfunction clinics, where we focus on the patient's sex life.

3. As a urologist, I get to hang out with a generally more laid back group of surgeons, who have a good sense of humor, tend to be inovators and early adopters of new techniques and technologies, and who get out of the hospital more often than some of the other fields you listed. In addition, because of the way many urologic problems are managed medically, its a field that challenges me to think about my patients from multiple different directions.

4. I like operating in the pelvis. Probably similar to your protestations of revoltion about the penis, I find the idea of being an opthomologist or neurosurgeon personally unappealing. I thought the eye and brain were anatomically the least lovely parts of humans. And neurosurgery, despite the heroic reputation, is a stressful field where they are not able to save the lives of many of their patients.

I prefer to deal with urine and, on occasion, semen or vaginal fluids, than spend a lot of my time dealing with mucus (ENT). I have nothing against ortho, and think that it might have been fun, but it's not as thought provoking as urologic problems, since it's almost all structural, with less focus on metabolism and physiology. If I thought urology was gross due to the anatomy, I would have looked at plastics, ortho, or maybe general surgery or interventional radiology.

5. There are few true urologic emergencies, which means that I get to spend more of my nights home in bed than in the hospital.

6. I suspect that as you get a little older, and assuming you are in medicine, spend a lot more time handling other person's body parts, you will get desensitized to the idea that touching another guys penis is any different than sticking your finger into someones sweaty armpit or between their toes.

7. Lastly, if you want to talk about gross, I have found few medical students who disagree that poorly vascularized (diabetes, artherosclerosis, vasculitis, etc) and poorly cleaned feet are about as disgusting as a body part can get. The smell alone can make you want to wretch, and even gangrene in the groin doesn't compete with it.

Hope that helps. If you are curious about demographics, I'm a woman, and applying in urology this year.

 

[f_w]

Please try to answer my questions instead of accusing me of being ignorant, or homophobic

You are ignorant AND homophobic.

 

[M3goingon4]

internet slowed - copy

 

[M3goingon4]

gay people generally don't achieve the same educational success that straight people do.

that's a bold statement, i know. but living near (literally a few blocks) from a very gay neighborhood, and watching them day in and out, very few attain high education; as a matter of fact i'm not even sure theyre capable of it. but that's a totally different issue; keep reading.

now someone's going to point out some statistic that theyre more educated than average, but remember; we're doctors; and i'm talking high professional degrees like MD's.

in my very large medical school class, there are only two homosexuals (less than 1% vs. the national average of like 2%). and its not a huge leap to assume men at this level have attained a strong sense of self and maturity as to not "live a lie" and all that stuff.

urologists are not average. theyre intelligent doctors, and homosexuals rarely make it this high in education. educated? if you call a BA an education. but MD? more likely to have girls than gays

now one of you is gonna say i know a gay urologist and be "that guy" but for the 99% rest of you reading this. if youre on this forum, ur prolly somewhat considering this field, and have probably talked to many surgeons. have u ever met a gay surgeon? ive shadowed, done research, talked to so many doctors at least five hospitals in three different cities and came across MAYBE 1 doctor (not my place to judge or ask, but its impossible not to make note)

so women in urology? sure; 40-50% of med students are women, and a few guaranteed will be smart enough to make it that far (no offense, surgery still retains a little bit of that good ol' men's club; not as much, but a little). but gays? they dont even represent their national numbers by percentage in med school; and when maybe 5% of all doctors are urologist...and fewer than normal number of gays in medicine to begin with...well;ur talkin less than...statistically, .0005 of all urologists.

so that one dude who's gonna respond in protest with an example that he personally knows of...that guy is prolly the only homosexual in all of urology, or maybe one other.

so, in recap...women? sure, plenty even. it's not even a question really. gays? very very few, if any

sry; someone had to say this, might as well be me