Without OCHEM???

[lONGrOAD]

Hi all,
I have a bit of a situation with my prereqs. I am a former Non Traditional premed that is working overseas on a US Marine Base. I am about to finish my B.S. and have been able to get all of my prereqs done with great grades (have a few shady ones from 10 years ago) and a bunch of Ws but I am able to easily justify them due to the nature of job. I have to take frequent short notice business trips to support the troops and some time they land on finals week or the like. But to get to the point; I need OCHEM and the college here on the base (UMUC) doesn’t offer it. I am hoping that I can teach myself, take the MCAT, get accepted, and then pick up my family, quit my job, move to the other side of the world (USA), take a summer OCHEM intensive and then start in the fall. So what are the odds that schools will look at me without OCHEM? My science GPA is good and my over all is about a 3.3. This is due to class from 10 years ago. Since I started back to school in 2004 I have 3.75 overall and a 4.0 Science. Any advice is welcome.

Prior USMC
PRE MD

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[DrMidlife]

I don't see a problem with this plan. Go for it.

 

[lastcall]

There's a really great book you can use as a supplement for your future O-chem class or even if you just want to prepare ahead of time---"Organic Chemistry as a Second Language" (Author: David Klein). It comes in parts 1 & 2, corresponding to 1st and 2nd semesters of O-chem. This book can be ordered from Amazon.com if its more convenient for you.

I really wish I had this book when I was taking O-chem but you can also use this to study for the Mcat. Hope this helps!

 

[DrMidlife]

There's a really great book you can use as a supplement for your future O-chem class or even if you just want to prepare ahead of time---"Organic Chemistry as a Second Language" (Author: David Klein). It comes in parts 1 & 2, corresponding to 1st and 2nd semesters of O-chem. This book can be ordered from Amazon.com if its more convenient for you.

I really wish I had this book when I was taking O-chem but you can also use this to study for the Mcat. Hope this helps!

Seconded. As long as you have a regular ochem textbook and are working through problems in it, the Klein books are really very worthwhile on the side.

 

[Law2Doc]

I don't see a problem with this plan. Go for it.

Some schools will be more receptive to a nontrad without all of the prereqs than others. The problems I potentially see are (1) that organic chem is regarded as the "premed breaker" and schools rely on this to weed out applicants. If you haven't taken any of it, some schools dislike the inability to compare you to other applicants who took all the prereqs, and may be skeptical about your abilities. Which is why it's one thing to pick up calculus or biochem over the summer before you start, and another to pick up a "true" prereq, (2) It's one thing to try and teach yourself the latter semester of orgo (once you've aced the first part and shown an aptitude) and another thing altogether to try and self teach the entire year from scratch. Some people take to orgo better than others. I'd be skeptical of the AVERAGE person's ability to master this course well enough to get all the organic points on the MCAT. Hard to know if you are above average or not until you get there, and by then it's too late. (3) The timing may not work out. A lot of med schools start in the summer -- earlier than a lot of college summer sessions end. Could be problematic to try and get a year's worth of orgo plus labs done, get transcripts to med school and still be able to relocate and make it to orientation.

So the short answer is that for some schools and for some students your plan might work out, but I'd hardly say I see no problem with this plan. I'd probably see how you do on full length practice MCATs before you go too far down this road. It might end up making sense to relocate, take the courses, then the MCAT, even if it costs you a cycle. This isn't a race and the goal is to get into med school, not save a year.

 

[DrMidlife]

Part of my "no problem" assumption is that the OP will have his/her summer ochem grades in hand for secondaries, or at least by interviews. With a decent app otherwise, particularly with a decent MCAT bio section, imho it's hard to balk at this story.

It's not a strategy I would recommend if the OP had a decent alternative, but I don't think it's an app killer.

 

[DrMidlife]

Oops, I should mention that ochem was not so much a science class as a character building exercise for me. I got my hide tanned and I had to repeat parts of it. So be ready to work REALLY hard in ochem if it's not immediately apparent that you're doing well.

 

[Law2Doc]

Part of my "no problem" assumption is that the OP will have his/her summer ochem grades in hand for secondaries, or at least by interviews.

If you reread his original post, he is talking about taking Ochem post acceptance. So none of your assumptions are met.( He wants to get into med school, relocate, take Ochem the summer before he starts, and then start. All interviews and secondaries will be done before he starts Ochem under his plan, and he won't have grades in hand until days before orientation at best). I see lots of potential problems with this for a lot of schools, even if he can self-learn enough Ochem to be successful on the MCAT.

 

[DrMidlife]

OK now I'm less excited. But with a military card to play, I still don't see it as an app-killer.

OP, Law2Doc is about a magnitude more rational than I am on average, and got into a way better school than I did, so prioritize accordingly.

 

[gman33]

OP - I'm going to be more harsh; don't take it the wrong way.

I see the chances of your original plan working as slim to none.
You might be able to get some interviews if Ochem was going to be done over the summer that you are applying. Schools will be wary to make an exception for this class; as it is considered by many to be the hardest one. I'd call schools and talk about your app before even considering this a viable option.

Another issue I see if that your overall GPA is pretty low as well. Your recent coursework shows great progress, but the overall GPA is still a problem. This is another reason why schools won't want to make an exception.

My advice is to find a way to take Ochem before applying or the MCAT. I know this is not what you want to hear. Also, when applying, look at DO schools if you haven't already. That overall GPA is going to be an issue.

 

[lONGrOAD]

Thanks for the advice,
Truth told, I kind of guessed that it wouldn’t work in my situation. I have am actual very interested in DO schools, but I am not ruling out allopathic schools. I know that my GPA is a hurdle, but my current record, the fact that the classes I did poorly in were ten years ago, I have documented behavioral change (USMC), and my current academic performance make me a good candidate for acceptance. I hate to relocate my life to take one class but if that is what it will take it for me to be a Doctor I will gladly add another mile to my long road. I have wanted to go to Med school for the last four years and it looks like it will have to be a few more. I have a non working spouse and two young children so I have to plan this transition very carefully to minimize the impact on my family and anything that can potentially ease the process has to be investigated; like many of you I assume.

 

[gman33]

I understand all the family issues.
You have to plan it out carefully as they should be your priority.

Maybe see if there is a way you can get moved to a stateside location with a school nearby. Another option might be to try to get a spot as a full-time reservist. A friend did this and earned an advanced degree at USF. I don't know how much time you have on your current contract, and I know pretty little about the military.

 

[lONGrOAD]

Would this be acceptable as a pre-reqs? I know the rule of thumb to not take them online but this is kind of 50/50 with the lab portion in person.

Online O Chem

 

[student1799]

OP, there is a thread elsewhere on SDN that talks about taking premed classes online. The general consensus there was that med schools are prejudiced against it [as they seem to be about many things], but that it's possible to get away with it IF you are taking a course that isn't titled "Online ___." (I remember one poster said that she was a F/T student at a state U, and they offered some of their courses in online versions, but the course titles just said "Chemistry," "Bio," etc.)

But it looks as if this course from OSU IS called "Online Organic Chem" (although you should definitely check with them about that). If it is, I think you should probably give it a pass, because med schools will really look down on it. As gman33 and law2doc said, med schools look at orgo as one of your most important prereqs, so you don't want to take any chances.

The other thing I'd say, purely as personal advice/opinion, is that it's very risky to take the MCAT before you've taken an honest-to-God orgo class. It's really a challenging subject, and I think you'd be taking a big risk on your MCAT score if you tried this. Given that you're a non-trad with baggage to make up for (I am too, BTW), it's really important to get the best possible MCAT score. Don't hurt your chances by rushing to take it before you're really ready.

Best of luck with your plans.

 

[AlwaysaMom]

If you have looked at any practice MCAT tests, you will see there are few straight-forward questions. You are required to read a passage and apply principles learned in class to an experiment you may have never seen before. Unless you really understand the subject, the questions are almost impossible to answer and educated guessing will not work out as well as it can on other standardized tests. I would not attempt the MCAT without taking O-chem.

I am also a non-traditional student who returned to school 11 years after leaving because of a child with health problems. The pre-med advisor at my university has told me that many med schools look at what you have done recently and my activities/grades from upto 20 years ago are not going to impact my application as much as what I am currently doing in class (assuming no major character issues). My university also has a medical school and my advisor has sat-in on some of the committee meetings. She said that if there are two equal candidates, the committee then looks at the MCAT score and then the O-Chem grades as like a tie-breaker.

The stress of trying to self-study O-Chem and review for the MCAT is going to be very high. I would try to get back to the States and take O-chem here. I did well in O-Chem, final average 96-97-97 for all three quarters, but I had to work constantly. Hope this helps.

If you can transfer back to the States, or if you can serve in the Reserves, try to get to a base that is near a university. The university I attend is near a large air force base and many students in the classrooms are non-traditionals from the base. At 37, I am not the oldest person in any of my classes and the environment is more open to non-traditionals.

 

[montessori2md]

Okay, here's the thing:

1) I don't think this is a bad plan, given your situation.
2) The problem is the date. It's JULY. So if you take MCAT tomorrow, schools don't get your scores till end of August, and they already have 1000s of apps sitting on AMCAS waiting for them.

If it were April, I'd be super gung ho and say do it online, study for MCAT, rock your MCAT, it's a no-brainer.

3) If you take the online course, you should consider retaking it in person later on, or taking something like biochemistry to pad your transcript.


I think you could try, and sort of see what happens, especially since you're thinking of applying DO, but I don't know about their timelines for apps.

If you get a 28+ on MCAT, I think you should apply allo as well, irrespective of your choice re: organic. Don't go crazy or anything, but your gpa is not super scary.

Organic is typically only about 25% of the BS on MCAT, it is less impt from that perspective. Take one of the REAL online tests (e-mcat?) and see how close to ready you are. If you aren't scoring at least 8 on each section, you really should consider applying next year.

4) Make sure you explain your geographical situation in your personal statement. Better yet, have your supervisor write a LOR for you, and within that describe your job responsibilities, including travel. Ask them to leave out the military jargon for the civilians.

 

[soonereng]

I am hoping that I can teach myself, take the MCAT, get accepted, and then pick up my family, quit my job, move to the other side of the world (USA), take a summer OCHEM intensive and then start in the fall.

Can one get accepted to med school w/out any OCHEM completed...yes.

I studied for the Aug MCAT for about 1 mo without any bio OR orgo prereqs and had my acceptance in hand in Nov-Dec to my state allo school. I clepped the intro bio courses 2 days after the MCAT and completed the orgo classes and an upper level bio course post-acceptance and before med school matriculation while still working my day job designing equipment to pillage the earth's natural resources. So, yes it is possible.

Is your plan likely to work?...I would have a backup plan. I certainly did.

 

[Newmanium]

Just as an aside - that online class from Oregon State appears as a normal Organic Chemistry on the transcript without any "online" qualifications (according to their website). However, seeing as how it's one of a handful of online options, and since they'll know you didn't move to Oregon, it's not like you can sneak one past them.

You could always take it online, take the MCAT - and then retake organic from a regular school if med schools think it's important. I.e., worst case with taking it online is to retake it later, at which point you'd already know the material and could theoretically skip all the classes and mostly show up for tests/quizes. (actually, worst case would be to fail the online course)

I'm surprised there aren't more online options for this class.