will we always be considered lower than "real" doctors?

[DrNush]

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[error404]

ok so this is gonna be a pretty long post... i'm a part of a community where half the people are medical docs. and of course anytime we go to any of those community get-togethers or whatever, the current medical students are full of themselves, and i happen to be the only dental student (out of CHOICE).

i'm getting more and more incensed as time goes on that whenever some medical issue comes up, everyone turns to the docs and then someone will decide to make a crack at me like "haha if we have any tooth problems we'll come to you." i dunno if they're being jerks or what's goin on...

i used to think dentists have the same prestige as physicians, but now i see that we're considered "lower." no one seems to realize that we study the same subjects in the first 2 years - prob not to the same extent as in med school, but nevertheless the same subjects. and we're not second tier.. i got into both dental and medical, chose dental.

i've actually never understood why dentistry is not just a residency after med school... just like dermatology and quite a few other medical specialties which i consider overkill to go to med school for.

has anyone else faced this problem of "ur just a dentist" in the US or is it just me?

I think most people consider dentists and physicians (and vets) to just be different. I do think that there are certain people who do get opinionated-- like, medical students during their first years of training while they adjust-- but those attitudes are likely to change. I'm not sure I see it reflected in the larger community, but as a med student who sometimes goes to functions with nursing students, I see where feelings of superiority/inferiority start to happen.

I have two weeks left of medical training, and no one has yet to even mention teeth in med school. They're not going to. I'm shocked at how little we get taught about that area-- and I think its possible that when some pre-doc says, "oh, if I have teeth questions, I'll come to you," what they're really saying is, "oh dear god, I don't know anything about that, and I'm terrified."

Dentistry as a residency-- I kind of like the idea. But I also like the idea that those who know what they want to do can focus on it from the start.

Try not to be too sensitive. Its also possible that you're inferring meanings to things that no one is trying to imply...

 

[MichaelVicksDog]

no one seems to realize that we study the same subjects in the first 2 years - prob not to the same extent as in med school, but nevertheless the same subjects. and we're not second tier.. i got into both dental and medical, chose dental.

BS. Naturopathic medical schools aka DeVry university equivalent of medical schools claim to have the same curriculum if not broader than allopathic medical schools. Get outta here with that mess. You know damn well how much more material and more in depth med schools kids have to go through. I dare you to go take the USMLE. And it doesn't matter if you got into both dental and medical schools; dental schools have lower stats than medical schools and that's just the way it is.

But dogg, this is REAL TALK. You're being mad selfish complaining about this. Like that's real selfish ****. You gonna avoid being a slave for 3 years, work 30 hours a week, not be controlled by HMO's, and make as much money as physicians. That's not enough for you so now you want the prestige and the respect too? Come on. I feel bad for those miserable MD's, let them have the bragging rights.

 

[nlax30]

I think the above poster pretty much nailed it.

I don't doubt that there are med students after their first 2 years who think they are the shiznit.... but for the most part I think we realize that for actual clinical medical knowledge, we've hardly begun.

So don't take it personally. I agree in that I think I've read a total of like 5-10 pages that had something to do with teeth..... so no wonder the docs in the ER I was at wasted no time in calling the dentist in.

 

[NyCzPeter]

I think the above poster pretty much nailed it.

I don't doubt that there are med students after their first 2 years who think they are the shiznit.... but for the most part I think we realize that for actual clinical medical knowledge, we've hardly begun.

So don't take it personally. I agree in that I think I've read a total of like 5-10 pages that had something to do with teeth..... so no wonder the docs in the ER I was at wasted no time in calling the dentist in.

If were not real doctors then neither are dermatologists obgyns gastroenterilogists etc. Like us their work is focused on one particular system and probably know only minimal knowledge outside their specialty. So in that sense dentists are no different than any other specialty. I suppose then internal med guys are the only real doctors since they are the only ones dealing with everything from head to toe.

 

[Daurang]

I currently live in the same household with two MD's and they regretted not taking the path of dentistry I recommended to them. After med school, they're now doing residency 70+ hours a week, for the next three years, to make in a month what I make in one day. You can understand why they hate us.

 

[nlax30]

If were not real doctors then neither are dermatologists obgyns gastroenterilogists etc. Like us their work is focused on one particular system and probably know only minimal knowledge outside their specialty. So in that sense dentists are no different than any other specialty. I suppose then internal med guys are the only real doctors since they are the only ones dealing with everything from head to toe.

They may still focus on a specific system, but they've also completed 2 years of rotations as students in various fields, plus whatever general medicine/surgery is covered in the first parts of their residency program.

GI is probably not a good example because they actually have to have complete an internal med residency first. But even for other non-medicine specialties they still need to know a good bit on general medicine.

The word "doctor" can just be too vague at times, depends on the context. Don't think anyone was applying that dentists weren't real doctors, outside of the physician meaning of the word.

 

[La fea]

I got the same from ppl in my home country (India). That we are inferior to *real, life-saving* MDs. After 1st year, I just stopped bothering.

You konw that pain that is both physical and mental is dental right?
You get to treat that. You know how grateful patients are after your relieve pain/do esthetic work etc right?

As far as prestige in a community goes- as long you feel like what you do makes a difference/is relevant/are happy/rich it doesn't matter. What say?

 

[nlax30]

I currently live in the same household with two MD's and they regretted not taking the path of dentistry I recommended to them. After med school, they're now doing residency 70+ hours a week, for the next three years, to make in a month what I make in one day. You can understand why they hate us.

I'd be lying if I said that wasn't appealing. Before med school I used to install high end home audio gear and had a few dentists for customers who were very successful.... I think every one of them was able to take time off and be there for when I was there working.

 

[error404]

If were not real doctors then neither are dermatologists obgyns gastroenterilogists etc.

Okay, ignoring the obvious grammar and spelling problems... way to identify with your intended field as a pre-dental student. YOU are not a doctor, not a dentist... whatever the difference between the two may be.
I think if you spent some time with derm, ob-gyns or GI docs, you would probably feel differently. Or went through the training.

That said, dentists have a ton of knowledge and skills that I don't, and I'm grateful for y'all. I could easily see the field being considered a branch of physician.

 

[aphistis]

I'll admit I don't know exactly where I fall on anyone's prestige ladder...mostly because I've never cared enough about it to ask.

You'll never feel validated as long as you're depending on someone else to do it for you. It may sound trite, but it's completely true.

 

[achilles2]

BS. Naturopathic medical schools aka DeVry university equivalent of medical schools claim to have the same curriculum if not broader than allopathic medical schools. Get outta here with that mess. You know damn well how much more material and more in depth med schools kids have to go through. I dare you to go take the USMLE. And it doesn't matter if you got into both dental and medical schools; dental schools have lower stats than medical schools and that's just the way it is.

But dogg, this is REAL TALK. You're being mad selfish complaining about this. Like that's real selfish ****. You gonna avoid being a slave for 3 years, work 30 hours a week, not be controlled by HMO's, and make as much money as physicians. That's not enough for you so now you want the prestige and the respect too? Come on. I feel bad for those miserable MD's, let them have the bragging rights.

You should just change your username to "The Truth"

 

[La fea]

I'll admit I don't know exactly where I fall on anyone's prestige ladder...mostly because I've never cared enough about it to ask.

You'll never feel validated as long as you're depending on someone else to do it for you. It may sound trite, but it's completely true.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[Aceofspades]

Personally I say who cares, but there are many people who desperately want "prestige". If you want prestige go become the Queen of England. If you want an independent profession with excellent pay go become a dentist. If you're in it to impress the girls then enough money would probably suffice as a replacement for the lost prestige. Nobody like a broke "doctor" (and yes, there are broke doctors). If you're in it to impress your parents... grow up.

 

[mrlantern]

After med school, they're now doing residency 70+ hours a week, for the next three years, to make in a month what I make in one day.

So?????

In NYC, medical residents get paid at least 50k/yr with all fringes and benefits as a W2 employee. Their base salaries go up for each advancing yr of their residencies.

I don't know how much physicians make in NYC but almost all physician job ads nationally list salaries of over $200k - $500k/yr. Again, this is with all benefits and malpractice coverage paid AND with well-defined 40-50hr work weeks.

Yes, physicians have longer training but their opportunities make up for it. I'd go far as to say that if you're in it for the money, you should go to medical school.

 

[aphistis]

So?????

In NYC, medical residents get paid at least 50k/yr with all fringes and benefits as a W2 employee. Their base salaries go up for each advancing yr of their residencies.

I don't know how much physicians make in NYC but almost all physician job ads nationally list salaries of over $200k - $500k/yr. Again, this is with all benefits and malpractice coverage paid AND with well-defined 40-50hr work weeks.

Yes, physicians have longer training but their opportunities make up for it. I'd go far as to say that if you're in it for the money, you should go to medical school.

Dude, show me ONE primary care medicine job advertising 200k for a 40-hour week. I can show you dozens for general dentistry. There's more to the world than Manhattan Island.

 

[Rube]

I don't know about anyone else here, but when a physician refers to him/herself as a "doctor" in my presence I find it kind of a mark of insecurity. He is a physician and I am a dentist... Or better he is a dermatologist and I am a dentist. Calling yourself "a doctor" in most situations is pretty lame. In fact, I rarely hear MDs say "doctor," most say "I'm a neurologist." Sure to the general public you're a "doctor," but among us professionals its better to just say what you are... at the end of the day we do our best and should be humbled by how hard our jobs can be. We are just people treating people.

Another thing, I have always been treated with respect by those in medicine and I respect their training as well. I think this sort of insecurity among dental students is a bit embarassing and is more among younger students than professionals. The professionals don't concern themselves with this stuff.

 

[aphistis]

I don't know about anyone else here, but when a physician refers to him/herself as a "doctor" in my presence I find it kind of a mark of insecurity. He is a physician and I am a dentist... Or better he is a dermatologist and I am a dentist. Calling yourself "a doctor" in most situations is pretty lame. In fact, I rarely hear MDs say "doctor," most say "I'm a neurologist." Sure to the general public you're a "doctor," but among us professionals its better to just say what you are... at the end of the day we do our best and should be humbled by how hard our jobs can be. We are just people treating people.

Another thing, I have always been treated with respect by those in medicine and I respect their training as well. I think this sort of insecurity among dental students is a bit embarassing and is more among younger students than professionals. The professionals don't concern themselves with this stuff.

 

[dentstd]

Since when is it insecure for a doctor to tell others he's a doctor? What tha hell's a doctor doing internal medicine supposed to tell people? I'm an internist....wtf's an internist?

The vast majority of medical students are not doing primary care. In recent years, the number's pushing 95-98 percent going into the specialties, and the primary care positions are being filled by foreign-trained grads. The average US medical student will end up making 100-150k/yr more than the average dental student. And the highest paying medical specialties will pay much, much more than the highest paying dental specialties...while oral surgeons may make in the 300's, the neurosurgeons, plastic surgeons, and cardiologists'll make 500-700. Spinal surgeons make 1.5mil. The numbers are still grossly in favor of the MD's. But crowns, root canals, and braces are stress-free.

 

[achilles2]

Since when is it insecure for a doctor to tell others he's a doctor? What tha hell's a doctor doing internal medicine supposed to tell people? I'm an internist....wtf's an internist?

The vast majority of medical students are not doing primary care. In recent years, the number's pushing 95-98 percent going into the specialties, and the primary care positions are being filled by foreign-trained grads. The average US medical student will end up making 100-150k/yr more than the average dental student. And the highest paying medical specialties will pay much, much more than the highest paying dental specialties...while oral surgeons may make in the 300's, the neurosurgeons, plastic surgeons, and cardiologists'll make 500-700. Spinal surgeons make 1.5mil. The numbers are still grossly in favor of the MD's. But crowns, root canals, and braces are stress-free.

95-98% of med students are going into specialties??? Really???? There is THAT many spots open to students ranked in the bottom 1/3 of the class?? Hell why should they even worry about doing better then passing on the boards with stats like that!!!

Do you have a source?

 

[nlax30]

Since when is it insecure for a doctor to tell others he's a doctor? What tha hell's a doctor doing internal medicine supposed to tell people? I'm an internist....wtf's an internist?

Actually, that's exactly what they would say.

The vast majority of medical students are not doing primary care. In recent years, the number's pushing 95-98 percent going into the specialties, and the primary care positions are being filled by foreign-trained grads. The average US medical student will end up making 100-150k/yr more than the average dental student. And the highest paying medical specialties will pay much, much more than the highest paying dental specialties...while oral surgeons may make in the 300's, the neurosurgeons, plastic surgeons, and cardiologists'll make 500-700. Spinal surgeons make 1.5mil. The numbers are still grossly in favor of the MD's. But crowns, root canals, and braces are stress-free.

Where are you getting these numbers from??? Not sure what stats you're using but don't confuse with "specialities" with not going into primary care.... Internal med, family med, OB/GYN, and peds are all specialities and are all primary care.

And I seriously doubt the salaries you mentioned above are accurate reflections of the averages.

 

[monreal]

Since when is it insecure for a doctor to tell others he's a doctor? What tha hell's a doctor doing internal medicine supposed to tell people? I'm an internist....wtf's an internist?

The "internists" I have met use the word "physician"

 

[dentstd]

Actually, that's exactly what they would say.



Where are you getting these numbers from??? Not sure what stats you're using but don't confuse with "specialities" with not going into primary care.... Internal med, family med, OB/GYN, and peds are all specialities and are all primary care.

And I seriously doubt the salaries you mentioned above are accurate reflections of the averages.

Those are all primary care fields, not specialties. There are several more. Within those fields you can go into a subspecialty. Internal medicine has cardiology and GI. Peds has numerous specialties, divided somewhat by organ systems.

Those numbers are from the allied health pay schedule.

 

[nlax30]

Those are all primary care fields, not specialties. There are several more. Within those fields you can go into a subspecialty. Internal medicine has cardiology and GI. Peds has numerous specialties, divided somewhat by organ systems.

Those numbers are from the allied health pay schedule.

Well, everything is a "specialty", we just consider a few of them as primary care specialties. But I was more concerned with where you read that "95-98%" are going into specialties and WHAT they define as a specialty? Because no where have I read that 95-98% of students are avoiding primary care.

Go into some of the other subforums and ask about those salaries. Don't trust some of those online salary summaries.

 

[MichaelVicksDog]

The vast majority of medical students are not doing primary care. In recent years, the number's pushing 95-98 percent going into the specialties, and the primary care positions are being filled by foreign-trained grads. The average US medical student will end up making 100-150k/yr more than the average dental student. And the highest paying medical specialties will pay much, much more than the highest paying dental specialties...while oral surgeons may make in the 300's, the neurosurgeons, plastic surgeons, and cardiologists'll make 500-700. Spinal surgeons make 1.5mil. The numbers are still grossly in favor of the MD's. But crowns, root canals, and braces are stress-free.

Dogg you keep talking outta yo azz. LOL 95-98.

 

[Rube]

...But crowns, root canals, and braces are stress-free.

funny

 

[aphistis]

Since when is it insecure for a doctor to tell others he's a doctor? What tha hell's a doctor doing internal medicine supposed to tell people? I'm an internist....wtf's an internist?

The vast majority of medical students are not doing primary care. In recent years, the number's pushing 95-98 percent going into the specialties, and the primary care positions are being filled by foreign-trained grads. The average US medical student will end up making 100-150k/yr more than the average dental student. And the highest paying medical specialties will pay much, much more than the highest paying dental specialties...while oral surgeons may make in the 300's, the neurosurgeons, plastic surgeons, and cardiologists'll make 500-700. Spinal surgeons make 1.5mil. The numbers are still grossly in favor of the MD's. But crowns, root canals, and braces are stress-free.

Credible source or GTFO.

Do you have any idea how small a fraction neurosurgeons, plastic surgeons, interventional cardiologists (the ones you're talking about who make that kind of money), and spinal surgeons COMBINED comprise of the physician population?

 

[Aceofspades]

Hahahah 95-98%! Come on, you can't just pull something that ridiculous out of your ass and think people will believe it. Even the most gullible SDNers wouldn't buy that at half price. These 500K+ salaries that you see out there for MD's are rare to begin with, and it is very unlikely that med students starting school will even smell that type of money. Physician's salaries have been declining and will most likely continue to do so. Throw in a liberal healthcare agenda and you are probably looking at an even faster salary decline.

 

[dentstd]

Dogg you keep talking outta yo azz. LOL 95-98.

Then my ass is right, dogg.... A simple internet search found sources, since you guys absolutely refuse to do any sort of work on your end. *******es.



"The Associated Press

CHICAGO — Only 2 percent of graduating medical students say they plan to work in primary-care internal medicine, raising worries about a looming shortage of the first-stop doctors who used to be the backbone of the American medical system.

The results of a new survey published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) suggest more medical students, many saddled with debt, are opting for more lucrative specialties.

The survey of nearly 1,200 fourth-year students found just 2 percent planned to work in primary-care internal medicine. In a similar survey in 1990, the figure was 9 percent.

Paperwork, the demands of the chronically sick and the need to bring work home are among the factors pushing young doctors away from careers in primary care, the survey found.

"I didn't want to fight the insurance companies," said Dr. Jason Shipman, 36, a radiology resident at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, Tenn., who is carrying $150,000 in student debt.

Primary-care doctors he met as a student had to "speed to see enough patients to make a reasonable living."

Dr. Karen Hauer of the University of California, San Francisco, the study's lead author, said it's hard work taking care of the chronically ill, the elderly and people with complex diseases — "especially when you're doing it with time pressures and inadequate resources."

The salary gap may be another reason. More pay in a particular specialty tends to mean more U.S. medical-school graduates fill residencies in those fields at teaching hospitals, Dr. Mark Ebell of the University of Georgia found in a separate study.

Family medicine had the lowest average salary last year, $186,000, and the lowest share of residency slots filled by U.S. students, 42 percent. Orthopedic surgery paid $436,000, and 94 percent of residency slots were filled by U.S students.

Meanwhile, medical school is getting more expensive. The average graduate last year had $140,000 in student debt, up nearly 8 percent from the previous year, according to the Association of American Medical Colleges.

Another likely factor: Medicare's fee schedule pays less for office visits than for simple procedures, according to the American College of Physicians, which reported in 2006 that the nation's primary-care system is "at grave risk of collapse."

Lower salaries in primary care did not deter Dr. Alexis Dunne of Chicago, 31, who is carrying $250,000 in student debt.



Last year, a parade of specialists couldn't solve the mystery of her mother's weight loss, fevers and severe anemia. Finally, an internist diagnosed a rare kidney infection. The kidney was removed, and Dunne's mother has felt fine since.

Watching her mother's health crisis affirmed her decision. She also enjoys being "the point person" for her patients.

"You become so close to them you're almost like a family friend," said Dunne, who completed her residency at Chicago's Northwestern Memorial Hospital in July.

She also found inspiration from the doctors she met during training: "They were the ones who would sit at a patient's bedside and spend more time with them rather than running off to surgery."

A separate study in JAMA suggests graduates from international medical schools are filling the primary-care gap.

About 2,600 fewer U.S. doctors were training in primary care specialties — including pediatrics, family medicine and internal medicine — in 2007 compared with 2002. In the same span, the number of foreign graduates pursuing those careers rose by nearly 3,300.

"Primary care is holding steady but only because of international medical-school graduates," said Edward Salsberg of the Association of American Medical Colleges, a co-author of the study. "And holding steady in numbers is probably not sufficient when the population is growing and aging."

And as American students lose interest, teaching hospitals will probably become less interested in offering primary-care programs, said Dr. David Goodman, associate director of the Center for Health Policy Research at Dartmouth Medical School.

In a JAMA editorial, Goodman called on Congress to create a permanent regulatory commission to encourage training for needed specialties. U.S. teaching hospitals receive $10 billion a year from the government to train doctors "with virtually no accountability."

The Web-based survey was done at 11 medical schools with demographics and training choices similar to all U.S. medical students."

 

[NyCzPeter]

They may still focus on a specific system, but they've also completed 2 years of rotations as students in various fields, plus whatever general medicine/surgery is covered in the first parts of their residency program.

GI is probably not a good example because they actually have to have complete an internal med residency first. But even for other non-medicine specialties they still need to know a good bit on general medicine.

The word "doctor" can just be too vague at times, depends on the context. Don't think anyone was applying that dentists weren't real doctors, outside of the physician meaning of the word.

Sure I agree with most of what you say, but I think its safe to say 3 months of psychiatric rotations and whatever he/she picked up during medical school/general residency is only enough to qualify as minimal working knowledge of psychiatry.

Okay, ignoring the obvious grammar and spelling problems... way to identify with your intended field as a pre-dental student. YOU are not a doctor, not a dentist... whatever the difference between the two may be.
I think if you spent some time with derm, ob-gyns or GI docs, you would probably feel differently. Or went through the training.

That said, dentists have a ton of knowledge and skills that I don't, and I'm grateful for y'all. I could easily see the field being considered a branch of physician.

Typing on an iPhone can be a B*tch. Ok, now ignoring your obvious grammar mistakes, who are you to criticize my knowledge mr medical student? You are not a physician, and not a dentist. As a matter of fact I have worked as a medical assistant for a dermatologist for over two years during undergrad so I have a pretty good idea of what goes down. He talks circles around me when I ask him about dermatological conditions, but last time I asked him about my gastritis from a H. pylori infection, his answer/medical advice became severly limited. Not that it makes him a bad physician or anything, but thats what specializing means.

 

[NyCzPeter]

Then my ass is right, dogg.... A simple internet search found sources, since you guys absolutely refuse to do any sort of work on your end. *******es.



"The Associated Press

CHICAGO — Only 2 percent of graduating medical students say they plan to work in primary-care internal medicine, raising worries about a looming shortage of the first-stop doctors who used to be the backbone of the American medical system.

The results of a new survey published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) suggest more medical students, many saddled with debt, are opting for more lucrative specialties.

The survey of nearly 1,200 fourth-year students found just 2 percent planned to work in primary-care internal medicine. In a similar survey in 1990, the figure was 9 percent.

you fool... It says 2 percent PLAN to work in primary care. Key word PLAN. Lol more than half of dental students PLAN to specialize in OMF and Ortho, but we all know things don't always go according to PLAN.

 

[nlax30]

Then my ass is right, dogg.... A simple internet search found sources, since you guys absolutely refuse to do any sort of work on your end. *******es.

"The Associated Press

CHICAGO — Only 2 percent of graduating medical students say they plan to work in primary-care internal medicine, raising worries about a looming shortage of the first-stop doctors who used to be the backbone of the American medical system.

I found the same article online but it's a survey of what students PLAN to do.... a lot of different from is actually going on. You stated the 95-98% like that's what is actually happening.

From an article in a 2006 NEJM

The proportion of U.S. medical school graduates entering the three primary care specialties (internal medicine, family medicine, and pediatrics) dropped from 50 percent in 1998 to 38 percent in 2006

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/355/9/864 Not sure if that link will work, but their data is straight from the National Resident Matching Program. Even with some of the above going on to subspecialties of IM it's not going to be enough to bring it down to 2%.

 

[dentstd]

you fool... It says 2 percent PLAN to work in primary care. Key word PLAN. Lol more than half of dental students PLAN to specialize in OMF and Ortho, but we all know things don't always go according to PLAN.

Idiot, do you think they remain in primary care if they don't intend on staying there? I have numerous friends that went into primary care, but none of them will actually remain. Every single one of them is using primary care as a means to get into something better, namely cardiology. Medicine has far more opportunities than dentistry.

 

[Guy Smiley]

Since when is it insecure for a doctor to tell others he's a doctor? What tha hell's a doctor doing internal medicine supposed to tell people? I'm an internist....wtf's an internist?

The vast majority of medical students are not doing primary care. In recent years, the number's pushing 95-98 percent going into the specialties, and the primary care positions are being filled by foreign-trained grads. The average US medical student will end up making 100-150k/yr more than the average dental student. And the highest paying medical specialties will pay much, much more than the highest paying dental specialties...while oral surgeons may make in the 300's, the neurosurgeons, plastic surgeons, and cardiologists'll make 500-700. Spinal surgeons make 1.5mil. The numbers are still grossly in favor of the MD's. But crowns, root canals, and braces are stress-free.

I am not going to address all the other stuff that has been hammered on by other people, but if you think all crowns, root canals, and braces are stress-free, you haven't done enough of them to know better.

 

[nlax30]

Did you look at the original JAMA study? http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/300/10/1154

It was a survey of just over 1,000 4th years that ONLY looked at their intentions in regards to the field of IM. Doesn't look like it even looked at OTHER primary care fields such as Family Med or Peds. So for the media to jump on and say only 2% of medical school graduates plan to go into primary care is just flat out misleading.

 

[DrNush]

..

 

[dentstd]

I am not going to address all the other stuff that has been hammered on by other people, but if you think all crowns, root canals, and braces are stress-free, you haven't done enough of them to know better.

Compared to surgery and sick/dying people, they're stress-free.

 

[NyCzPeter]

Idiot, do you think they remain in primary care if they don't intend on staying there? I have numerous friends that went into primary care, but none of them will actually remain. Every single one of them is using primary care as a means to get into something better, namely cardiology. Medicine has far more opportunities than dentistry.

As for medicine having more opportunities i agree. But be sure to tell these friends they are all *****s. Do you know how many primary cares are able to get into cardio? That's like using dental school as a means to get into ortho. Good luck to them and god forbid they end up stuck in primary care their whole miserable lives.

Compared to surgery and sick/dying people, they're stress-free.

And how many physicians do surgery/take care of sick dying people v.s the number of dentists that do crowns, rootcanals?

 

[DrNush]

I think this sort of insecurity among dental students is a bit embarassing and is more among younger students than professionals. The professionals don't concern themselves with this stuff.

hmm yeah ur right, but then again i am younger than most dental students so i'll grow out of it and hopefully not embarrass the dental profession again.

 

[lotexigeus]

lol @ this thread and the name-callers

 

[dentstd]

Did you look at the original JAMA study? http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/300/10/1154

It was a survey of just over 1,000 4th years that ONLY looked at their intentions in regards to the field of IM. Doesn't look like it even looked at OTHER primary care fields such as Family Med or Peds. So for the media to jump on and say only 2% of medical school graduates plan to go into primary care is just flat out misleading.

So what number would appease you? My biggest point is that there's an overwhelming trend of medical students choosing the specialties over primary care. Do you somehow disagree with that?

I've kept in touch with my college buds, and lots are doing their residency in peds, medicine, and what not. Every single one of them have the intent to later specialize. Few purposely go into a field they know causes undue stress on their life.

 

[dentstd]

As for medicine having more opportunities i agree. But be sure to tell these friends they are all *****s. Do you know how many primary cares are able to get into cardio? That's like using dental school as a means to get into ortho. Good luck to them and god forbid they end up stuck in primary care their whole miserable lives.


And how many physicians do surgery/take care of sick dying people v.s the number of dentists that do crowns, rootcanals?

It's nothing like doing to dental school in order to do ortho. Medicine's more than one organ system. If they don't/can't get into the heart program, they do other things...adolescent medicine, allergy/immunology, asthma, cancer, celiac, epilepsy, endocrinology, infectious diseases, rheumatology, therapy, urology, nephrology, neurology, pediatic psychiatry, critical care, cystic fibrosis, hepatic, developmental, neonatal.... The list goes on and on and on. Need I list more? I have a list of about 50 different subfields for pediatic specialties and another 50 or so for adult. The majority get what they want. It's just a matter of time. And the Step I score requirement isn't high for these programs either. Dental specialties are limited by the number of available spots. Medical specialties are limited more by the number of doctors that want them.

The dental specialists I shadowed didn't seem to be stressed. You're still learning, so yea, you may be more stressed cuz you're not yet that good.

 

[nlax30]

So what number would appease you? My biggest point is that there's an overwhelming trend of medical students choosing the specialties over primary care. Do you somehow disagree with that?

No, of course not. It's very obvious that there's a downward trend of grads going into primary care. If that's your biggest point then just say that instead of throwing out an extreme stat from a very limited survey.

 

[pietrodds]

I'll admit I don't know exactly where I fall on anyone's prestige ladder...mostly because I've never cared enough about it to ask.

You'll never feel validated as long as you're depending on someone else to do it for you. It may sound trite, but it's completely true.

This is a much more polite of saying what I was thinking... my response:

So what, feel free to kiss my ass, you think I care about what some pompous prick thinks or worse, what their parents think!?! Life is too short to be concerned about such trivial pissing contests.

 

[Contach]

so what are you trying to say? you wish you had gone into medicine dentsd?

 

[Guy Smiley]

Compared to surgery and sick/dying people, they're stress-free.

Because all physicians deal with sick/dying people or are in the OR all the time.

 

[dentstd]

so what are you trying to say? you wish you had gone into medicine dentsd?

I'll be sure to email the journalist that she made a mistake about medical terminology. But no, I've already gone into medicine. I'm a non-trad. A 4 year oral surgery program's all I'll be missing after dental school.

 

[dentstd]

Because all physicians deal with sick/dying people or are in the OR all the time.

At the very least, I would hope they deal with sick people all the time.

 

[aphistis]

At the very least, I would hope they deal with sick people all the time.

They don't. Go talk to an emergency physician and ask what fraction of his/her patients are truly acutely sick.

 

[Rube]

It's nothing like doing to dental school in order to do ortho. Medicine's more than one organ system....

This is just wrong. If a patient is requesting 600 Motrin post op following 3rd molar removal and his meds includes warfarin, I'm thinking about his cardiovascular system mostly and running down his medhx in my mind including PMH, SH, Allergies, meds ect... this includes more than one organ. He's a person. Again remember I said we are "people treating people" not DOCTORS treating MULTIPLE ORGAN SYSTEMS. Again, I'm not thinking about his integumentary system. This is NO different from medicine. If I CC with "I think my BP is high" and my primary care doc takes my BP and its high, he looks at my past readings, PMH, FH, SH drugs, current status, allergies, age and then writes for a HCTZ. Period. "see you for a f/u" He's not thinking about my my trigeminal ganglia as he's writing this. More than that he probably has 4 minutes to dx, rx and thank me for coming because his next 3 patients are in tx rooms having their BP taken.

Dentists treat people just like physicians treat people. You don't seem to get this important point yet cause you're getting hung up on this "cock" thing that only exists in academia and on SDN. In the real world, we work together and are glad to have one another to help our patients. Keep this attitude up throughout dental school and not only will you be on your way to insecure dentist status but you'll be a bad dentist and only cause you are focusing on what others are doing instead of your job.