Hello everyone! I am about to apply to dental school, and I am considering doing HPSP for either AF, Navy, or Army. I am just wondering what sort of procedures I will be doing as a GP within the branches (will I be doing root canals, implants,etc.). Will I have a chance to polish my skills so that I will be prepared for the civilian world when I come out with no debt? If I feel my skills plateau, what's the process and likelihood for applying to specialty WITHIN the military or AFTER? Lastly, how do AEGDs work within the military, and do they provide a chance for me to work on cases that are more complicated, such as root canals?
WILL MY SKILLS PLATEAU IF I CHOOSE HPSP???? SHOULD I SPECIALIZE AFTER???
- Thread starter Lev2001
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I think you’re jumping the gun quite a bit.
Get into dental school first and be offered the HPSP and then worry about it. You’re not obligated to accept the scholarship.
You can apply for specialities during or after hpsp. The specifics wont really mean anything to you right now. For the military, your resume and the needs of that branch will determine if you’re accepted. If it’s after hpsp, you would apply just like anyone else.
AEGDs in the military will expose you to the specialties, the specifics depend on which duty station and branch you’re in.
Get into dental school first and be offered the HPSP and then worry about it. You’re not obligated to accept the scholarship.
You can apply for specialities during or after hpsp. The specifics wont really mean anything to you right now. For the military, your resume and the needs of that branch will determine if you’re accepted. If it’s after hpsp, you would apply just like anyone else.
AEGDs in the military will expose you to the specialties, the specifics depend on which duty station and branch you’re in.
But, here's the thing, I am serious about accepting the scholarship once I get into dental school, I am applying for the scholarship right after I am taking the DAT. I really don't need to have that debt. For you specifically, are you a specialist? If not what procedures would you expect an AEGD GP to do? @customx are you in the military? :/
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I am not a specialist.
I cannot speak for other branches but at least for the navy, it doesn’t matter whether you do an AEGD or not.
You’re going to complete a deployment/operational tour which consists of dental readiness (exams/fillings/extractions). Doesn’t matter if you did Pgy-1 or not.
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So what is the deployment/operational tour? Is it just a training program? After the training program, what common procedures do you do in the navy then? How often do you perform root canals? Implants? Place crowns? My major question for this discussion is to see how is it like to be a military dentist.
Your experience in the military will vary depending on where you are stationed at, OIC and commander at the time you are there. It is really hard to tell you what your experience will be like because it will change year to year. One thing that I can guarantee you is you will not be placing an implant as a general dentist in the military unless you complete a 2 year AEGD.
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yes skills plateau and atrophy due to lack of procedure variety. particularly true in OMS
So here's the thing, for you guys in the military, do yall still believe that the scholarship is worth it? Are y'all planning to stay in the military or go to private in the end? What's the best way for yall to pick up your skills, so that y'all will be competitive in the private market?
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Yes, but only if your tuition is $400k or more. If you decide to get out and specialize, the GI Bill will cover 100% of your tuition at a public school and you will receive E-5 BAH. That alone could be worth another $200k.
You'll need to moonlight if you don't want your clinical skills to atrophy.
Hmmm, so how severe would one experience the atrophy at each branch? It is hard to believe that after four years of dental school, a graduate will only be able to do basic check-ups and fillings! I am speaking to a hpsp dental student who is a dental tech at a navy base, and he says that there are many cases where GPs do Root Canals, and occasional crowns. Implants are normally done by specialists
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It’s not that bad. I was Navy. Did a credentialing tour. AEGD or GPR are different and offer good learning experiences. You’re first year you’ll dabble in everything. You rotate through surgery, endo, restorative. Endo you’ll stick to anteriors and premolars, but experience is experience. Surgery, they basically let us do anything we were comfortable with, if we got stuck, they bailed us out. AEGD did a lot more prosth and implant stuff. We did basic crown and bridge. But regardless, first year was a nice slow paced learning experience. After that I went to ship where I was the only dentist and did everything that I was comfortable with. I referred most molar endo unless we were deployed. Did all my extractions except tougher bony extractions. Did a lot of crown and bridge. Learned a ton about direct restorations and got really good at them. You learn a lot about just being a dentist in a safe slower paced environment. Yea, you aren’t going to have the advanced procedure knowledge that some of your classmates have 4 years out, but you have a great foundation to quickly build on.
IMO the best route though is to pick a specialty you like and pursue it after your active duty though. You will be a strong candidate, have a good GP background, they pay for everything, you’ll have no debt, and you’ll come out of residency at about 30-32 making ~$400-$500K (before taxes). All those amalgams, annual trainings, and uniforms inspections are definitely worth it.
IMO the best route though is to pick a specialty you like and pursue it after your active duty though. You will be a strong candidate, have a good GP background, they pay for everything, you’ll have no debt, and you’ll come out of residency at about 30-32 making ~$400-$500K (before taxes). All those amalgams, annual trainings, and uniforms inspections are definitely worth it.
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Navy dentists are choosing beggars. They don’t want the tough billets where you can do a ton of procedures and basically run a dental practice. As a ship dentist (LHD, not carrier) I ordered all my supplies, did anything I felt comfortable doing or wanted to. Most want a big base, with no chance of deploying, but also want to do all the procedures. Those safe bases also have all the specialists. So unless you show interest in specializing (shadow and rotate through a specialty dept), or have a lot of years under your belt, you are going to be stuck in operative and exam clinics. That’s the way it is. If you want to learn how to be the best dentist you can, choose a billet that allows it.
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Exactly what I’m doing. Volunteered for a very undesirable Mission and gonna be the only doc for 3,000 marines.
Getting tons of exposure in omfs and molar endo with microscope right now before I head off for deployment.
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The choice is never really yours. You are a pawn in the bigger game and you will be placed where you are needed. Usually you are given some kind of say in where you go, but ultimately your say is not the only consideration. If you say that you want to go somewhere undesirable, it's more likely that you'll get it.
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Good for you. Those are tough billets to sign up for. Takes some courage. It’ll pay off. Gives you a ton of perspective and experience. You’ll be better because of it. Good luck man.
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I mostly agree. In my case I would say hindsight 20/20 it financially didn’t make sense at all and from a quality of life standpoint… absolutely not. The tough thing is an undergrad will have no idea how competitive they will be for a specialty or even if they would want one.
For OMS HPSP doesn’t make sense. The salary difference between my military pay and my civilian colleagues or extrapolating out my moonlighting is staggering. In less than 2yrs I could more than make up for the scholarship, GI bill, extra residency pay etc. I’d have to grind but then again wouldn’t have to deal with the dog**** quality of life the military often offers.
That being said, how could I have envisioned my success now over a decade ago when I was applying for schools. They will always be able to fill scholarship slots when risk averse college kids uncertain about the future look down the barrel of a half million debt.
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Hard to give you a reliable answer, there’s so much inter and intra variability with the branches.
A Navy buddy of mine did the credentialing tour which compares similarly to an Army 1yr AEGD but still counts towards the scholarship payback. He got to do a lot while in (less than our civilian friends but not too much less) and got out. He’s doing well now.
The Army has some of those success stories but most people who end up with a good military job did a 1yr AEGD which is neutral and extends their military payback a year.
Here’s an extreme example. An Army GP colleague who didn’t do the 1yr got sent to a basic training site. She spent 2yrs in the trainee clinic which is mostly exams and operative emergency patients, occasional pulps. No prosth, implants, digital anything. After 2 years she was sent to run the reception training clinic which does exclusively exams. She will spend the last 2yrs before getting out not touching a patient after spending 2yrs only doing big amalgams. This isn’t typical but this nightmare situation does happen to the rare person who gets ****ed.
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MEU?
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I’ve Been following you on SDN for years, I think since I was a D1.
You served your time honorably, this is my way of paying it back to you Shipmate
Things worked out personally/professionally for me where next year was the best time for me to deploy.
I’m very excited for this assignment!
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Definitely a good experience/resume booster in the military. Is the orders for 6 months? They don't normally select somebody straight out of PGY-1/credentialing tour. Get your FMF pin while you're there.
Are you planning on just doing your time and get out(specialize in the civilian world) or specialize in the military and possibly staying in?
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Why do you not like the quality of military life? It would good for future applicants to know.
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If you were to go back in time, would you have done the OMS residency in the Army again? or would you just finish your 4 years of HPSP commitment and pursue civilian OS or possibly other civilian specialties with the GI bill?
Doing omfs in civilian sector AFTER 4 years of payback is going to be really hard... most likely you'll have to do a non-cat year. And you'll have to take cbse a few years after you have graduated, which will be more difficult to score high.
If you're dead set on omfs, might be easier to become one in the military. Just moonlight once you're an omfs...
For other programs, it makes more sense to get out and do a civilian program unless you're shooting for the 20 yr retirement money from the military
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I would have taken the loans, the Army sucks hard. Worth it for a general dentist who just wants to punch a clock and doesn’t care about skill degradation or one who just shows up to work but moonlights at a modern office. Hard to justify in any way for OMS. Salaries are wildly under reported compared to the statistics you likely have seen - if you’re decent and work hard you can easily pay those loans off in a year. Residency after the Army will be hard to make happen. If you’ve already signed your life away then the best option is to do an Army residency, moonlight then gtfo
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Why was the Army a suck experience for you?
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To prevent skill degradation and learn as much skills as possible in the Army as a GP (hopefully to be in level or at least close to the level of other non HPSP graduates) what would be the best way to go? AEGD-1, AEGD-2, or just do the 4 yr service req and work in other offices over the weekend or weekday at night?
Really appreciate all the insights. Current HPSP D4.
Really appreciate all the insights. Current HPSP D4.
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I would say AEGD-1. This is the route I took (recently separated), and from speaking to multiple AEGD-2 grads, they tend to say the same for the most part. If you want to stay in as a general dentist, go the AEGD-2 route as it’s considered a specialty in the military, but otherwise, the ones I have interacted with say we get similar experiences, the 1 year is just more condensed and the 2 year has more research/boards preparation, etc.
I have also worked with non-AEGD dentists who were getting out (so 4 years of practice) and they had a minimal skill-set that would make me feel ill-prepared for civilian dentistry, so I would take advantage of the AEGD personally. You get a lot of training/practice in procedures you would have to pay a good chunk of money for in the civilian world, and then you have specialty mentors around the whole year to lean on and pick their brains to hone your skills.
One year in the big scheme of things is nothing, and it will give you a better chance of utilizing those skills for the rest of your payback, as opposed to being thrown into only doing basic operative and exams for 4 years.
I have also worked with non-AEGD dentists who were getting out (so 4 years of practice) and they had a minimal skill-set that would make me feel ill-prepared for civilian dentistry, so I would take advantage of the AEGD personally. You get a lot of training/practice in procedures you would have to pay a good chunk of money for in the civilian world, and then you have specialty mentors around the whole year to lean on and pick their brains to hone your skills.
One year in the big scheme of things is nothing, and it will give you a better chance of utilizing those skills for the rest of your payback, as opposed to being thrown into only doing basic operative and exams for 4 years.
