Why not to dilute listerine?

[dinesh]

Why did the listerine say DONOT DILUTE?
Any important reason?

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[12YearOldKid]

any particular reason you would want to?

 

[dinesh]

Nope
Just asking
They have it written large on the back....

 

[unlvdmd]

I would assume it has to do with one of two things: 1) the research claims are done with the stated dosage and 2) if you dilute it you will not run out as fast= less money for them

But Listerine is bad news for your gingiva anyway. Dilute it right into the garbage!

 

[captaintripps]

In what way is it bad for the gingiva?

 

[unlvdmd]

In what way is it bad for the gingiva?

Alcohol content. That "burning" feeling that it gives is the alcohol burning the tissue. It is not advised from most dentists.

 

[drhobie7]

I don't think listerine is bad for gingiva. It's definitely better than the sulcular bacteria. The only negative remark I've heard is that it may worsen a dry mouth due to the alcohol content. Aside from chlorhexidine, it's the most effective rinse for killing oral bacteria.

 

[Reed1978]

I'm quite certain it has no negative effects on the gingiva. I would also hope that at least some objective testing was involved prior to the ADA approval of the mouthwash - but you never can tell. Even the old-school Listerine has only about 27-28% alcohol content, so I suspect that if anyone is really THAT concerned, they could and probably should switch over to something like ACT x2. Besides, there are plenty of people who maintain healthy gums despite several heavy nights of drinking each week - that can't be any better than a few 60 sec rinses with 27% alcohol.

 

[ramonaquimby]

Why did the listerine say DONOT DILUTE

i dilute it a little bit in a shallow pan and place my retainer in it for about 1 hr. i reasoned that i should dilute it so that it doesn't 'eat away' at my retainer: faulty logic or analytical thinking?

 

[12YearOldKid]

Acrylic resin is not soluble in alcohol, your retainers are safe.

 

[Comet208]

Why did the listerine say DONOT DILUTE?
Any important reason?

Maybe its more effective "full strenght", as the bottle says.

Another reason is that you finish the bottle more quickly so you have to BUY MORE!!

 

[booshwa]

Thats funny its says not to dilute, because we're told on the floor that after a prophy, you can give the patients some listerine, but its better to dilute it with some warm water so its more tolerable.

Perhaps it has something to do with the fear of introducing contaminants into the bottle? ALthough that doesn't really make sense.

I'd venture that it's just a manifestation of "the man" trying to get more of our money.

Has anyone tried the new mouthwash from Crest (I think)? We were told it has the same benefits of listerine, without the alcohol. I think its marketed towards the mormon population!? (its a joke, please don't get offended).

 

[unlvdmd]

I don't think listerine is bad for gingiva. It's definitely better than the sulcular bacteria. The only negative remark I've heard is that it may worsen a dry mouth due to the alcohol content. Aside from chlorhexidine, it's the most effective rinse for killing oral bacteria.

This is an issue that people debate. Of course it is better than nothing, but alcohol free rinse is best in MY opinion. Others don't agree, but that's what makes the profession go 'round. It was brought up in lecture just the other day and the attending periodontist does not advocate alcohol containing rinses.

 

[Utes]

Booshwa,

I've tried the new Crest mouthwash. (And I'm Mormon, I thought your joke was funny... no offense taken) It says it's alcohol free, so it doesn't burn at all. I'm not a dentist (yet) so I can't talk intelligently about it. However my only complaint is that it stains my mouth blue. I have to rise like crazy to get all of the blue off my tongue etc. The taste is very pleasant though.

Utes

 

[Dentalhopeful]

I suggest Biotene

 

[dientesfuertes]

I think a major reason it says "do not dilute" on the label of Listerine you purchase in the store is that there is also concentrated Listerine available to professionals that does require dilution. They probably just wanted to emphasize that the bottle you are holding contains "ready-to-use" product.

 

[lnn2]

Why did the listerine say DONOT DILUTE?
Any important reason?

Yes. Because at that retail strength (dosage) it's proved to be the most effective w.out any harmful effects (through their own lab research.) If you dilute it then it might not be effective (or the result won't be the same as it was intended.) For example, cutting a 500mg Tylenol in half would reduce the dosage thus making it less or maybe even not effective. So for drugs or anything related always "Use as directed"

 

[ElDienteLoco]

Thats funny its says not to dilute, because we're told on the floor that after a prophy, you can give the patients some listerine, but its better to dilute it with some warm water so its more tolerable.

Perhaps it has something to do with the fear of introducing contaminants into the bottle? ALthough that doesn't really make sense.

I'd venture that it's just a manifestation of "the man" trying to get more of our money.

Has anyone tried the new mouthwash from Crest (I think)? We were told it has the same benefits of listerine, without the alcohol. I think its marketed towards the mormon population!? (its a joke, please don't get offended).

Try the Crest ProHealth Rinse...but only if you don't want to taste anything you put in your mouth for the next 18 hours. Then use it again. You'll never have to taste anything but that metallic aftertaste again!

Everyone should try it, but I personally hate it. I seriously couldn't taste anything for 18 hours.

I don't know about a Mormon marketed product...I bet some Mormons like to "live on the wild side" with a shot of that 50 proof stuff - even if it's just for a swish. The chicks dig it!

 

[odontastic]

The Pfizer rep just made a Listerine presentation at our school. Here are the main points:

Dilution is not recommended because all of the clinical studies have been done at standard full strength, 30 seconds, b.i.d.

Listerine is the only ADA approved OTC antiplaque/antigingivitis mouthrinse, the other, Peridex containing chlorhexidine requires a prescription.

Listerine has been around for 125 years and is the market leader.

The alcohol is not harmful, does not cause cancer, will not get you drunk (you'd get sick first, although do not recommend to a recovering alcoholic), does not cause dryness (even in xerostomic pts.) and is not responsible for the burning.

The burning feeling is caused by the 4 active ingredients, the essential oils, not the alcohol.

Since alcohol is not the problem, Listerine has no plans to introduce an antiseptic rinse w/o alcohol.

To reduce the burning sensation, try Natural Citrus Listerine, and rinse for less than the full 30 sec instead of diluting it.

Citrus is for the flavor and does not cause acid erosion of enamel.
Listerine Whitening Pre-brush rinse is not antiseptic.

Look for the introduction of a new, exciting Listerine product soon.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Alcohol content. That "burning" feeling that it gives is the alcohol burning the tissue. It is not advised from most dentists.

It has no lasting negative affects on the gingiva if used according to the instructions (ie, the proper amount of time). Using for 3 minutes IS going to do damage.

And I'm fairly certain that most dentists do advise patients to use listerine. It's a fabulous product that can significantly cut down on the oral microbes.

 

[ramonaquimby]

I suggest Biotene

can this be bought over hte counter? i'd be willing to try it.

i was trying ot be loyal to listerine, but that stuff just burns way too much for me. it's literally painful. i tried the citrus version, but it's a crock to me...still burns like heck

so i'm using the crest one now. absolutely no burning, excpet perhaps my money away?! but i can do the full 30 sec with that one. mouth feels great afterwards.

and thanks for answering that question about my retainer -- and yes, it's SINGULAR...only one for the top, thank you very much, lol...

 

[ElDienteLoco]

Yeah, you can get Biotene OTC.

From my understanding, Biotene is mainly for pts with xerostomia problems...I don't know that it is necessarily considered an antiseptic...Good luck swishing.

 

[Sk8aBull]

I really really like the Crest Pro-Health rinse.

My boyfriend, on the other hand, prefers Listerine b/c he thinks the burning sensation indicates that it is doing something. He says by crest not burning, it doesn't do anything. ::rolls eyes::

 

[rdh1]

I really really like the Crest Pro-Health rinse.

My boyfriend, on the other hand, prefers Listerine b/c he thinks the burning sensation indicates that it is doing something. He says by crest not burning, it doesn't do anything. ::rolls eyes::

Crest Pro-Health Rinse is the ONLY rinse that has worked to eliminate my husband's bad breath (yeah, I know, but I fell in love anyway.) Also I had some very poor dentistry done recently.....crowns on 13/14.....Using this Crest Rinse helped me eliminate the bleeding.........flossing and picking and automatic toothbrushing alone wouldn't do it. (Still, I am now seeing a new dentist, prosthedontist and periodontist....very humiliating for a dental professional.)
Also, re the subject of using undiluted Listerine after prophies that comes up earlier in this thread:
Big companies always need to protect themselves against lawsuits; also they want you to buy their product, so would not want you to have a bad experience. After some prophies, due either to the initial health state of the gingiva or to the klutziness of the particular practitioner, the gums are pretty sore.....even open, flapping, bloody................rinsing with full-strength Listerine would cause quite a bit of pain and irritation.....bad idea. On the other hand, the rinse has a much more devastating effect on bacteria when used undiluted but tastes nasty and burns. So, why not just switch to the Crest Pro-Health.....

 

[zekex]

so.. is there ANY reason not to use the new crest mouthwash as in like clinical studies that prove listerine's mouthwashes are more effective or something?

 

[scottyhoop]

so.. is there ANY reason not to use the new crest mouthwash as in like clinical studies that prove listerine's mouthwashes are more effective or something?

There's some chatter around about Crest staining tooth enamel. I don't know if there's research on it yet, but I've heard Crest has admitted to the staining problem. I like Listerine...the Crest after taste is a bit nasty plus the whole staining thing scares me.

Scott

 

[sdn1977]

Enamel staining is a result of the cationic effects of the ceytylpridium chloride (sp?) in Crest & the chlorhexidine in Peridex which is correlated with the antimicrobicidal activity. The staining can be removed by sufficient rinsing, which lessens the therapeutic activity or professional techniques.

Listerine only contains essential oils, which provide only antiseptic (NOTE: not antibacterial), mild anesthetic & counterirritant properties. In other words - it feels good! The reason it says not to dilute is because the labeling was approved by the FDA when the drug application was approved for that - not for any other reason. My husband, a dentist, always dilutes it as an oral rinse after a procedure, just to make the pts mouth taste better.

As a pharmacist....I advise they could rinse with cool water or Listerine - either one works the same!

 

[groundhog]

I've used a Listerine/H2O solution in my waterpik for about 5 years after my RDH recommended the mix as a great way to gain control over my peridontal problems. It sure worked for me. Pockets shrunk, bleeding stopped, and recommended cleanings went from 4 times per year to 2 times per year. The solution foams like heck when it comes out of the nozzel and strikes the teeth and gums. The RDH said the foaming action is what kicks the butts of plaque forming bacteria. So, each morning. I brush with sonic-care, floss, and waterpik in that order.

 

[Periogod]

As a pharmacist....I advise they could rinse with cool water or Listerine - either one works the same!

You need to pick up a journal.

 

[Periogod]

so.. is there ANY reason not to use the new crest mouthwash as in like clinical studies that prove listerine's mouthwashes are more effective or something?

Since you are too lazy to do a Medline search yourself, I will make it easy for you.

I have read nothing to support the use of cetylpyridinium chloride mouthrinses (e.g. Scope and Crest ProHealth). There are some studies out there that show Scope is effective at reducing plaque but most studies do not show it is as effective as Listerine or Chlorhexidine at reducing gingivitis. Crest ProHealth is a new formulation without the added alcohol. The only studies published on its effectiveness have been in the American Journal of Dentistry (odd that a mouthrinse hasn't made itself into any of the Perio literature). These are all product testing studies by the company. There are, however, multiple studies to support the use of both Listerine and Chlorhexidine mouthwashes and their ability to reduce both plaque and gingivitis. If you really want to know, be a "doctor" and look the crap up yourself. I hate to see people getting advice that is nothing more than other people's opinion.

My opinion is that Listerine is effective and that Chlorhexidine is expensive. I tell my patients that and let them decide for themselves. People will do whatever you as their "doctor" tell them so you might want to be making informed decisions.

My rant for the day, peace.

 

[scottyhoop]

Someone else mentioned that Listerine has a new product coming out. I am assuming that's the Vanilla Mint Listerine I picked up today. It says on the label "Less Intense,Equally effective". I am pretty much addicted to Listerine Advanced so I am used to the burn and Vanilla Mint Listerine burns far less. All of the active ingredients are the same, but the inactive has some changes. This could be a happy medium for those who don't like the burn (even tho there still is some) and those who don't like the staining/taste of Crest.
Scott

 

[gryffindor]

Someone else mentioned that Listerine has a new product coming out. I am assuming that's the Vanilla Mint Listerine I picked up today. It says on the label "Less Intense,Equally effective". I am pretty much addicted to Listerine Advanced so I am used to the burn and Vanilla Mint Listerine burns far less. All of the active ingredients are the same, but the inactive has some changes. This could be a happy medium for those who don't like the burn (even tho there still is some) and those who don't like the staining/taste of Crest.
Scott

Ooh, that sounds good. I'll have to look for the vanilla mint. We have the original strength Listerine at work and it brings tears to my eyes.

 

[mdina]

The Pfizer rep just made a Listerine presentation at our school. Here are the main points:

Dilution is not recommended because all of the clinical studies have been done at standard full strength, 30 seconds, b.i.d.

Listerine is the only ADA approved OTC antiplaque/antigingivitis mouthrinse, the other, Peridex containing chlorhexidine requires a prescription.

Listerine has been around for 125 years and is the market leader.

The alcohol is not harmful, does not cause cancer, will not get you drunk (you'd get sick first, although do not recommend to a recovering alcoholic), does not cause dryness (even in xerostomic pts.) and is not responsible for the burning.

The burning feeling is caused by the 4 active ingredients, the essential oils, not the alcohol.

Since alcohol is not the problem, Listerine has no plans to introduce an antiseptic rinse w/o alcohol.

To reduce the burning sensation, try Natural Citrus Listerine, and rinse for less than the full 30 sec instead of diluting it.

Citrus is for the flavor and does not cause acid erosion of enamel.
Listerine Whitening Pre-brush rinse is not antiseptic.

Look for the introduction of a new, exciting Listerine product soon.

Hello,

I agree but you need to rinse for 30 seconds for the same exact reason you don't dilute it. Unless you want to use it only for your halithosis.

 

[dexadental]

Hardly anymore burning with Listerine's "Less Intense" products...exactly the same but less scorching on the tissue. Try it. I myself prefer Crest.

 

[mlle]

primarily, they must label it that way because the studies were done that way as well as for the dough. Also, they must have found that the alcohol concentration probably is ideal for the purpose of killing whatever it is supposed to kill while not doing too much damage to the gingiva. for example, many of you may know that in a lab, 70% ethanol is used to disinfect because that is the ideal concentration for that purpose. anything more or less concentrated becomes less effective.

For an alternative, I use a Jason Organics mouthwash with clove oil which has a strong natural anti-microbial action, without the alcohol. Here's a ingredient description of "Jason Healthy Mouth" mouthwash:


INGREDIENTS PURPOSE SOURCE
Aqua (Water) Base Spring
Glycerin (Vege) Humectant Vegetable
Citrus Grandis (Grapefruit Seed Extract) Antibacterial Fruit
Dead Sea Salt Healing Dead Sea
Calcium Ascorbate Enamel Repair Fruit
Zinc Ascorbate Gum Repair Fruit
Ascorbic Acid Cell Repair Fruit
Hamamelis Virginiana (Witch Hazel Extract) Astringent Plant
Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera Extract) Healing Plant
Sodium Bicarbonate Acid Neutralizer Mineral
Perilla Frutescens Japanica (Perilla Seed Extract) Antibacterial Plant
Melia Azadirachta (Neem Oil) Antibacterial Plant
Melaleuca Alternifolia (Tea Tree Oil) Antibacterial Plant
Eugenia Carophyllus (Clove Oil) Antibacterial Plant
Menthol Refreshing Plant
Polysorbate 20 Solubilizer Coconut Oil
Cinnamomum Zeylanicum (Cinnamon Oil) Flavor Plant
Hydrastis Canadensis (Golden Seal) Healing Plant
Echinacea Angustifolia (Echinacea) Anti-inflammatory Plant
Calendula Officinalis (Calendula) Anti-inflammatory Plant
Citrus Medica Limonum (Lemon Balm) Invigorating Plant
Gingko Biloba Antioxidant Plant



It works for me!

 

[Periogod]

For an alternative, I use a Jason Organics mouthwash with clove oil which has a strong natural anti-microbial action, without the alcohol. Here's a ingredient description of "Jason Healthy Mouth" mouthwash:


INGREDIENTS PURPOSE SOURCE
Aqua (Water) Base Spring
Glycerin (Vege) Humectant Vegetable
Citrus Grandis (Grapefruit Seed Extract) Antibacterial Fruit
Dead Sea Salt Healing Dead Sea
Calcium Ascorbate Enamel Repair Fruit
Zinc Ascorbate Gum Repair Fruit
Ascorbic Acid Cell Repair Fruit
Hamamelis Virginiana (Witch Hazel Extract) Astringent Plant
Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera Extract) Healing Plant
Sodium Bicarbonate Acid Neutralizer Mineral
Perilla Frutescens Japanica (Perilla Seed Extract) Antibacterial Plant
Melia Azadirachta (Neem Oil) Antibacterial Plant
Melaleuca Alternifolia (Tea Tree Oil) Antibacterial Plant
Eugenia Carophyllus (Clove Oil) Antibacterial Plant
Menthol Refreshing Plant
Polysorbate 20 Solubilizer Coconut Oil
Cinnamomum Zeylanicum (Cinnamon Oil) Flavor Plant
Hydrastis Canadensis (Golden Seal) Healing Plant
Echinacea Angustifolia (Echinacea) Anti-inflammatory Plant
Calendula Officinalis (Calendula) Anti-inflammatory Plant
Citrus Medica Limonum (Lemon Balm) Invigorating Plant
Gingko Biloba Antioxidant Plant



It works for me!

Wrong. It does not work for anyone. I cannot believe someone would post this in a dental forum and be proud of it. You might as well have told us you rinse with "Miracle Water" (anybody that watches late night tv knows what I am talking about). If you think I am just being mean, since you are a Pre-Dent, maybe you should try telling the faculty that interview you for dental school all about the amazing mouthwash that "works for you." I think they would be impressed about how you did "some internet research" and found that Jason's Healthy Mouth mouthwash is the best product on the market.

I was just wondering. Do you buy any of the other great Jason's products such as: shampoo (rosewater and tall grass), conditioner (hemp and sea kelp), apricot scrub, aftershave and shaving lotion, deodorant (tea tree), hand and body lotion (wild yam), and, my favorite, sea fresh toothpaste (with bioactive algae and coral as well as CoQ10).

You may want to check out this site: http://www.holisticdental.org/

 

[rdh1]

so.. is there ANY reason not to use the new crest mouthwash as in like clinical studies that prove listerine's mouthwashes are more effective or something?

I don't think there are any studies that would indicate that Listerine is more effective than Crest Pro-Health. Also, I noticed that the very careful and hip hygienist at my new dentist's office has switched from Listerine to Pro-Health--due to the similar efficacy w/o the alcohol burn.
A side point: now my husband's just bought a Water-Pik electric, vibrating flosser---------His breath has not only greatly improved from using the Pro_Health Rinse...........it actually give off a certain aroma of health after using this flosser for just a few days. Now I'm using it instead of a Perio Aid around each tooth. It's a lot more fun, seems to get in deeper, and I'm expecting actual results!

 

[Periogod]

...........it actually give off a certain aroma of health

This intrigues me. I would like to know of this "aroma of health."

 

[mlle]

Wrong. It does not work for anyone. I cannot believe someone would post this in a dental forum and be proud of it. You might as well have told us you rinse with "Miracle Water" (anybody that watches late night tv knows what I am talking about). If you think I am just being mean, since you are a Pre-Dent, maybe you should try telling the faculty that interview you for dental school all about the amazing mouthwash that "works for you." I think they would be impressed about how you did "some internet research" and found that Jason's Healthy Mouth mouthwash is the best product on the market.

I was just wondering. Do you buy any of the other great Jason's products such as: shampoo (rosewater and tall grass), conditioner (hemp and sea kelp), apricot scrub, aftershave and shaving lotion, deodorant (tea tree), hand and body lotion (wild yam), and, my favorite, sea fresh toothpaste (with bioactive algae and coral as well as CoQ10).

You may want to check out this site: http://www.holisticdental.org/

Although I am merely a lowly pre-dent, I don't see what I have said that is so offensive. I never said this was the best thing out there, I said this is what I use, and I can send you references of legit journal papers on the antimicrobial activity of clove oil, among other ingredients in the mouthwash. Clove oil is also used as a local anesthetic for teething in kids by many "simple" ppl. I am not advocating miracles, just offering an option. If you feel that my lack of a dental education prohibits me from giving my opinion on something like mouthwash when I am a biochem major, then I apologize for my self-righteousness.

It does look like you did some homework though, are these other products problematic for you somehow?

 

[omfsres]

Although I am merely a lowly pre-dent, I don't see what I have said that is so offensive. I never said this was the best thing out there, I said this is what I use, and I can send you references of legit journal papers on the antimicrobial activity of clove oil, among other ingredients in the mouthwash. Clove oil is also used as a local anesthetic for teething in kids by many "simple" ppl. I am not advocating miracles, just offering an option. If you feel that my lack of a dental education prohibits me from giving my opinion on something like mouthwash when I am a biochem major, then I apologize for my self-righteousness.

It does look like you did some homework though, are these other products problematic for you somehow?

Predent, this guys whole specialty is based on oral hygiene, I doubt he cares to debate the kreb's cycle with you to prove your tincture is effective. Keep up the attitude, I'm sure the dental faculty at you school will be totally interested in you opinions on oral health.

By the way, perio suks(sorry, the aaoms bylaws require a derogatory statement about perio with every public posting)

 

[dinesh]

heh some big discussions

 

[rdh1]

Although I am merely a lowly pre-dent, I don't see what I have said that is so offensive. I never said this was the best thing out there, I said this is what I use, and I can send you references of legit journal papers on the antimicrobial activity of clove oil, among other ingredients in the mouthwash. Clove oil is also used as a local anesthetic for teething in kids by many "simple" ppl. I am not advocating miracles, just offering an option. If you feel that my lack of a dental education prohibits me from giving my opinion on something like mouthwash when I am a biochem major, then I apologize for my self-righteousness.

It does look like you did some homework though, are these other products problematic for you somehow?

I like your reply to God...........calm, logical, and well-spoken.

 

[rdh1]

1

 

[rdh1]

This intrigues me. I would like to know of this "aroma of health."

To understand what I mean by "aroma of health" I think you would have had to experience it. This would mean that you would have had to have been intimately close with another human who was healthy and who breathed in your face.........of course your sense of smell would have to be working as well....you know, no blocked sinuses or damaged olfactory nerves....that sort of thing.
Well, then, once you are acquainted with this aroma, when you breathe the aroma of an unhealthy mouth, you can distinguish an unpleasant difference---sometimes from as far as 4 feet away. But....you say......what if the healthy mouth reeks of garlic or some other food or beverage that you detest? You're right. That would smell bad, but bad is not the same as unhealthy.......just ask the old time doctors who often used their nose to help with the diagnosis. Or ask a gynecologist.....Now that doctor could really add some insight.
This explanation would not be complete without a personal sharing. So: A few years ago I became convinced that there was decay below a crown on one of my first molars. I based my conviction on the smell of decay on my floss. I went to my dentist, and he said he could detect no decay on #14 but that he recommended replacement of the crown on #13. During the treatment of #13, I requested that he remove the crown on #14. Against his better judgment, he did this...........only to find that the tooth was almost too decayed to repair. He should have smelled my floss as I had requested in the first place.

 

[Sprgrover]

This intrigues me. I would like to know of this "aroma of health."

Lol.

 

[Sprgrover]

To understand what I mean by "aroma of health" I think you would have had to experience it...

The trouble with this "aroma of health", like all symptoms, is that it is subjective.

 

[rdh1]

The trouble with this "aroma of health", like all symptoms, is that it is subjective.

Yes, I know what you mean..........sort of like "love" or the "afterlife" or a good margarita.

 

[Periogod]

He should have smelled my floss as I had requested in the first place.

I think you should start doing this for all of your patients, maybe publish and have it become the standard-of-care. The dental hygienest can then pre-diagnose all caries in a patients mouth before they perform the cleaning and then compare results with the dentist's exam. You can kind of make it into a competition; the dental hygienest's nose vs. the dentist's dental training.