why NOT surgery?

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sunflower79

Plays well with knives
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OK, so after hanging out with orthopods all summer I think I might wanna be a surgeon after all. Actually fixing a problem instead of pushing drugs and talking to a 70-year-old smoker about quitting appeals to me.

But now, what are the downsides? How hard do you really work? (not just residency, but afterward) And what are the difficulties of being a woman surgeon?

thanks,
~sunflower

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i think you need to hone your question down a bit...

what are you really after in practice?

surgery is a field populated with fun, smart and energetic people that like to work hard. one of the consequences of being around people like this is that, after a while, you become one too. if you don't, you wash out and do something else. money is a non-issue. docs are not getting rich, with very few exceptions. but surgeons, on average, make a bit more than non-surgeons. in my practice, which is a little unusual, i work about 50-60 hours per week. i'm in the military. surgeons on the outside work harder per unit/hour than i do...in other words, they are pushing a lot more paperwork, and dealing with other admin headaches. i've got my own, but am not nearly as busy as a private, or academic surgeon. best way to make a descision is to call up your local surgeon and ask to shadow him or he for a couple mornings...most are very receptive, and secretly, love to show off their practices.
 
Don't forget about the monkeys!
 
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Difficulties:
1) hard to find a mate unless you already have one--you are underworked, don't have time to socialize other than inside the hospital, your mate pool is limited to what's in the hospital and not always very appealing (married, don't take care of themselves/weird/workaholics/power freaks, etc).
Compared to nurses, women surgeons have less time to be concerned about personal appearance, make up, being 'nice and womanly', all this other dating stuff. Plus, some guys feel threatened by powerful women and they feel shy talking to you. You develop propensity for bitchiness in the stress of the surgical training. Now think--if i am a young attractive male resident--would i rather date a nurse, who has time to prepare a meal, looks nice, is sweet and not so tired to have sex, is 'below' me in rank and would do anything in the world to please me? or--an overworked, sleepy looking, potentially intellectually superior to me woman, who does not have time to bake cookies...etc. I know I am stereotyping, but this is just to get the point across.
2) Childbearing age--your clock is ticking--every year of training adds on some Down syndrome risk and other niceties--plus, who would want to be pregnant while taking care of patients and on your feet and not havaing adequate time to eat properly? So you have to either take a risk to have a baby while in training and face some possible resentment or postpone till later and maybe face a funny-looking kid.
3) Miscellaneous--discrimination, preconceptions, blah blah--is getting better in this century, but some people are still predjudiced. Whatever...it's not your problem and is out of your control.
............
Good things--
1) Your hands--generally smaller hands, women have better fine motor skills and easier time learning to stitch, tie knots, etc.
2) your charm, charisma--trust me, it can sometimes save your behind in a male-dominated field. Use it.
if i will think of more, i will post again...
 
What I like about surgery:
- The hands-on stuff is fun.
- You can literally fix a problem, results seem very gratifying.
- corollary: problem is generally not chronic.
- sicker patients capture my interest more (in a morbid sort of way, I guess)
- I'm a very strong visual-spatial thinker... esp. musculoskeletal anatomy was fun, very functional.

Honing in on the question:
It seems the reasons NOT to choose surgery frequently have to do with lifestyle. How bad is it really? Are there other things I should weigh against surgery when deciding?

thanks. :)
 
I have to admit...when I was a med student...'lifestyle questions' did not figure strongly into my decision to become a general surgeon. I liked the pathology, the big cases, being regarded as the smartest, most capable doc in the hospital (which general surgeons are...) was important to me. By the time i finished my training, the lifestlye issue became HUGE. Absolutely, it is the reason why I'm trying to get into plastic surgery. Doing appies in the middle of the night is NOT fun anymore, nor is caring for the 300 lb. gastric bypass patient with a bowel obstruction...forget it. I have tailored my practice toward procedures that i LIKE doing, and have good results for patients, and don't generate an in-patient admission...for example, i do a lot of breast surgery for CA. these patients go home. they do well. they love their surgeons. it feels very good to be involved in their care. i also do a lot of lap nissens. these patients do well (generally) and go home in 48 hours (generally) and the operation is a lot of fun to do. my point is: you can tailor your practice to some extent. my lifestlye, after 'tailoring' my practice has improved a lot. i work about 50-60 hours per week. sometimes much less, depending on the time of year...

in terms of future relationships for females...you are correct, its an issue. i know of one woman that was a chief resident when i was an R3 who was stunningly beautiful, extremely talented, very nice...she met a guy and got married during residency. she always looked 'great'...never tired or rumpled..but i know she worked hard to cultivate that image, that nothing could rattle her...you can do the same thing. you can't let your 'person' slip as a resident...you're still a professional...hopefully these words help a little.
 
Navysurgeon,

How long did it take before you could set up your practice to suit the lifestyle that you currently have? It seems like it would take many years after residency before you have the latitude to decide which type of patients you want to operate on and how much you'd like to work.

Would you recommend general surgery for someone who doesn't mind working hard for 5 or years after med school, but would like to be more chill immediately after residency.
 
I have the same questions as LuckyMD2B. Furthermore, can you tailor your practice ( limit the hours of work per week to something reasonable ) even if you work in a public hospital ?
 
Put me in the category of those interested in knowing whether the hell will end after 5 years?

I can bust my ass to get where I want for a few years, but I don't think I could maintain that lifestyle for the rest of my working life. I spoke with a new fellow at our facility today and he mentioned that he was finally starting to feel like himself again, getting more rest and spending more time with his family. I certainly hope that's how it works.
 
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