Why ladies in OBGYN are so moody and unpleasant to work with?

[watermen]

Why ladies in OBGYN are so moody and unpleasant to work with? I just want to hear what OBGYN people have to say about it? I really liked OBGYN alot...but the working enviroment, esp working with so many moody ladies, is something that really makes me shunt away...

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[Leukocyte]

What happens when you put a bunch of cats together?!

Meaow!

(Just Kidding)

 

[Leukocyte]

IMHO, General surgery and Ob/Gyn have many cranky residents because these two specialties, in particular, are:

-Very demanding, with long and wierd hours.
-High liability/malpratctice pateint population.

 

[nutcancer]

i've heard this from a lot of people but i haven't noticed this where i did my rotation. out of 13 residents, only 2 were as described above. i was pleasantly surprised. otherwise, i would imagine its the hours. getting up at 5 AM everyday to deliver babies or do mainly TAH's takes its toll.

 

[NR117]

IMHO, General surgery and Ob/Gyn have many cranky residents because these two specialties, in particular, are:

-Very demanding, with long and wierd hours.
-High liability/malpratctice pateint population.

Well, neurosurgery is even worse as far as those two points are concerned. But the female residents in neurosurgery that I met were just terrific to work with - quite the opposite of their counterparts in gen surg or Ob/gyn. And I'm talking about a variety of different hospitals...

I have no idea why, but I don't think it's the long and weird hours.

 

[NR117]

Your neurosurg residents don't work long and weird hours? No trauma call? Lucky.

Did you read my post? I said their work conditions are WORSE...Yet they find it in themselves to be helpful to clerks and try to teach something. So the long & weird hours excuse just doesn't work...

 

[Faebinder]

They don't get laid as often maybe? *runs for cover*

 

[Leukocyte]

They don't get laid as often maybe? *runs for cover*

But I thought Gate-Keepers can last forever without needing to let anyone in.

Us, Key-Masters, on the other hand, cannot last 2 days without needing to open something. If we don't find anything to open, we will open our own fists.!!!

 

[Faebinder]

The true cause: They sleep less in OBGYN than say something like internal medicine. The only reason you don't observe this in surgery is that surgery residents are mostly males.

Acad Med. 2004 May;79(5):394-406. Links
The effects of sleep loss and fatigue on resident-physicians: a multi-institutional, mixed-method study.Papp KK, Stoller EP, Sage P, Aikens JE, Owens J, Avidan A, Phillips B, Rosen R, Strohl KP.
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine, and Department of Medicine, University Hospitals of Cleveland and the Cleveland VA Medical Center, Ohio 44106, USA. [email protected]

PURPOSE: To identify and model the effects of sleep loss and fatigue on resident-physicians' professional lives and personal well-being. METHOD: In 2001-02, 149 residents at five U.S. academic health centers and from six specialties (obstetrics-gynecology, emergency medicine, family medicine, internal medicine, pediatrics, surgery) were recruited for the study. Residents were all in good standing in their programs. In a mixed-methods design, focus groups consisted of an average of seven (range, three to 14) individuals in the same year of training and residency program, for a total of 60 interns and 89 senior residents. Trained moderators conducted focus groups using a standardized, semistructured discussion guide. Participants also completed a 30-item quantitative questionnaire assessing sleepiness and workplace sleep attitudes that included the Epworth Sleepiness Scale (ESS). RESULTS: Residents described multiple adverse effects of sleep loss and fatigue on learning and cognition; job performance, including professionalism and task performance; and personal life, including personal well-being and relationships with spouse or significant other and family. Only 16% of the sample scored within the "normal" range on the ESS; 84% scored in the range for which clinical intervention is indicated. Sleepiness was consistent across institution, specialty, years of training, age, gender, marital status, and having children. CONCLUSIONS: More residents perceived that sleep loss and fatigue had major impact on their personal lives during residency, leaving many personal and social activities and meaningful personal pleasures deferred or postponed. Sleep loss and fatigue also had major impact on residents' abilities to perform their work. This finding further substantiates the growing concern about the potential impact on professional development. These observations should be taken into account in developing new training guidelines and educational interventions for housestaff.

My joke was a true side effect of the problem according to the study.

 

[watermen]

Well, neurosurgery is even worse as far as those two points are concerned. But the female residents in neurosurgery that I met were just terrific to work with - quite the opposite of their counterparts in gen surg or Ob/gyn. And I'm talking about a variety of different hospitals...

I have no idea why, but I don't think it's the long and weird hours.

Agree with above. The female neurosurgery resident I worked with is fantastic. Just the opposite of OBGYN female residents. So I really don't think long hour is the factor, neurosurgery has longer hours.

 

[bellalou]

this perception may be due to the fact that ob/gyn residents are less tolerant of uninterested lazy medical students. i found that if i showed the slight bit if enthusiasm, i got along very well with the residents.

 

[NR117]

this perception may be due to the fact that ob/gyn residents are less tolerant of uninterested lazy medical students. i found that if i showed the slight bit if enthusiasm, i got along very well with the residents.

I think it's a given that MOST residents will not enjoy putting up with a lazy medical student, regardless of their specialty. We are talking about med students who had no problem whatsoever with residents in any other rotation, not lazy slackers. Give the OP (and the rest of us) the benefit of the doubt!

 

[primadonna22274]

Because taking care of pregnant women and menopausal women all day long PLUS sleep deprivation sucks.

 

[NR117]

While we are on this topic, be sure to check out:

http://theunderweardrawer.homestead.com/obgyn1.html

and read all three pages; she's hilarious! She could have been writing about my ob-gyn rotation!

 

[MichiMO]

Look, every male resident I have worked with in stressful fields could be just as big of a jerk as any female resident can be. I honestly think there is a sexist mythology surrounding OB where people feel entitled to trash their residents when they are being jerks on the basis of their sex and somehow attribute bit**iness to the specialty as a whole. I have worked with some of the biggest jerks in the world in General Surg...residents to attendings...but nobody attacked these people on the basis of sex and no one made overwhelming statements about surgery as a whole based on these people being a**'s...I mean, when have you heard someone say "why are there so many a**hole guys in surgery?" This is sexist crap, let's face it. Just because the specialty is predominantly women or even that there are a lot of grumpy women in OB does not mean there is something especially crappy about the women who go into OB.
There might be something wrong with the system that makes formerly nice people become jerks...my feeling is OB is really one of the few specialties where when you are on call you REALLY don't sleep at all CONSISTENTLY. Most other specialities no sleep is hit or miss and you usually get SOME sleep. Ask any new mother who hasn't slept for 36 hours how peachy she feels? Stay up yourself for that long...then do it over and over again several nights in a month (even with night float this is a reality)...see how enthusiastic you are with teaching...see how tolerant you are of mistakes or stupid hospital inefficiency? My guess is you will be right there with them regardless of the presence of a y chromosome or two "i'm so happy and chirpy and better than everyone else" x's.

 

[watermen]

Look, every male resident I have worked with in stressful fields could be just as big of a jerk as any female resident can be. I honestly think there is a sexist mythology surrounding OB where people feel entitled to trash their residents when they are being jerks on the basis of their sex and somehow attribute bit**iness to the specialty as a whole. I have worked with some of the biggest jerks in the world in General Surg...residents to attendings...but nobody attacked these people on the basis of sex and no one made overwhelming statements about surgery as a whole based on these people being a**'s...I mean, when have you heard someone say "why are there so many a**hole guys in surgery?" This is sexist crap, let's face it. Just because the specialty is predominantly women or even that there are a lot of grumpy women in OB does not mean there is something especially crappy about the women who go into OB.
There might be something wrong with the system that makes formerly nice people become jerks...my feeling is OB is really one of the few specialties where when you are on call you REALLY don't sleep at all CONSISTENTLY. Most other specialities no sleep is hit or miss and you usually get SOME sleep. Ask any new mother who hasn't slept for 36 hours how peachy she feels? Stay up yourself for that long...then do it over and over again several nights in a month (even with night float this is a reality)...see how enthusiastic you are with teaching...see how tolerant you are of mistakes or stupid hospital inefficiency? My guess is you will be right there with them regardless of the presence of a y chromosome or two "i'm so happy and chirpy and better than everyone else" x's.

But guys in OBGYN are really nice to work with. If all my OBGYN residents had been guys and not those grumpy and bitchy females...I may consider doing OBGYN. And you are right, there are really many ass hole male surgeons.

 

[watermen]

While we are on this topic, be sure to check out:

http://theunderweardrawer.homestead.com/obgyn1.html

and read all three pages; she's hilarious! She could have been writing about my ob-gyn rotation!

This cartoon is really hilarious. I love the way it depicts med students life. I wonder how would attendings in respective specialties feel when they see it, they probably forget the life of being a med student.

 

[chrisisinnocent]

Look, every male resident I have worked with in stressful fields could be just as big of a jerk as any female resident can be. I honestly think there is a sexist mythology surrounding OB where people feel entitled to trash their residents when they are being jerks on the basis of their sex and somehow attribute bit**iness to the specialty as a whole. I have worked with some of the biggest jerks in the world in General Surg...residents to attendings...but nobody attacked these people on the basis of sex and no one made overwhelming statements about surgery as a whole based on these people being a**'s...I mean, when have you heard someone say "why are there so many a**hole guys in surgery?" This is sexist crap, let's face it. Just because the specialty is predominantly women or even that there are a lot of grumpy women in OB does not mean there is something especially crappy about the women who go into OB.
There might be something wrong with the system that makes formerly nice people become jerks...my feeling is OB is really one of the few specialties where when you are on call you REALLY don't sleep at all CONSISTENTLY. Most other specialities no sleep is hit or miss and you usually get SOME sleep. Ask any new mother who hasn't slept for 36 hours how peachy she feels? Stay up yourself for that long...then do it over and over again several nights in a month (even with night float this is a reality)...see how enthusiastic you are with teaching...see how tolerant you are of mistakes or stupid hospital inefficiency? My guess is you will be right there with them regardless of the presence of a y chromosome or two "i'm so happy and chirpy and better than everyone else" x's.

Sleep deprivation can turn any reasonably nice person into an ogre

 

[MichiMO]

But guys in OBGYN are really nice to work with. If all my OBGYN residents had been guys and not those grumpy and bitchy females...I may consider doing OBGYN. And you are right, there are really many ass hole male surgeons.

The whole "but the guys in OB are really nice" in my opinion is just another part of the sexist mythology. I think what you are noticing is, in general, it takes a pretty cool guy to go into OB and, once again generally speaking, the guys I have worked with in OB have been pretty exceptional people...so maybe these exceptional people tolerate no sleep a little better than others. That said, I have also worked with exceptional women in OB who also tolerated no sleep better than others and I have worked with guys in OB who became big jerks when stressed too. I really don't think you can attribute this to gender.

 

[bellalou]

The whole "but the guys in OB are really nice" in my opinion is just another part of the sexist mythology. I think what you are noticing is, in general, it takes a pretty cool guy to go into OB and, once again generally speaking, the guys I have worked with in OB have been pretty exceptional people...so maybe these exceptional people tolerate no sleep a little better than others. That said, I have also worked with exceptional women in OB who also tolerated no sleep better than others and I have worked with guys in OB who became big jerks when stressed too. I really don't think you can attribute this to gender.

Rock on, sister. I agree completely. I think this whole thread boils down to outright sexism. I can tell you that during my surgery rotation the residents actually farted on one another (take a guess - male or female). That did not happen during my ob/gyn rotation.

 

[dentate_gyrus]

I can tell you that during my surgery rotation the residents actually farted on one another (take a guess - male or female).

Fight sexism with sexism.
FWIW I had phenom residents on OB, not a B in the bunch. Even the interns were low stress. You just have to know how to deal with the different personalities. Though OB/GYN way overhypes the amount of work they do, long hours but very very easy work.

 

[salmonella]

Why ladies in OBGYN are so moody and unpleasant to work with? I just want to hear what OBGYN people have to say about it? I really liked OBGYN alot...but the working enviroment, esp working with so many moody ladies, is something that really makes me shunt away...

They probably spend long enough time together to have synchronized menstrual cycles, thus everyone has pms the same week.

 

[obbyjobby]

They probably spend long enough time together to have synchronized menstrual cycles, thus everyone has pms the same week.

I have NEVER heard that before! How original!

Agree about the sexism part. Ob/gyn is a surgical subspecialty that's mostly female (that was a patient preference thing, by the way); thus it's easy to mark them as "bitches." I ran into a-holes of both genders on each and every single rotation, definitely mostly on surgery though. There's no secret to "getting by" on the rotation. Work hard and take it seriously just as you would any other rotation.

Also, I love Michelle Au's website and her comics, but I think her bad experience on ob/gyn stemmed from the fact that she chose to do it at a suburban community hospital. My friends at my own and other med schools, even if they hated ob/gyn, loved how much they got to do on the rotation. Again, no one's gonna come find you to deliver the baby, you've got to be proactive and show some initiative. At my program they're busy and work their asses off but they're happy to teach.

 

[futureob]

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[watermen]

But here's an interesting thread idea for males and females: who gave you better clerkship grades--guys or girls? With very few exceptions, I always got better numbers from the males...

STRONGLY AGREE!!!

Male residents generally give me outstanding evaluation. Not to say that female residents don't give me outstanding evaluation, in fact, several of my most outstanding evaluation came from female attendings or residents. BUT, the worst evaluation ALWAYS came from female!!!

RESULT: I definite prefer to work with guy because of the better grade I receive.

 

[Leukocyte]

But here's an interesting thread idea for males and females: who gave you better clerkship grades--guys or girls? With very few exceptions, I always got better numbers from the males...

This is VERY true! I have two "B"s on my transcript, and they all came from female attendings. Even my meanist male evaluator, a surgery attending, gave me an A.

Females seem to always expect/want more! Very interesting gender difference. Maybe this is due to our deeply ingrained gender roll/nature as Males vs. Females.....Hunters vs Gatherers.

 

[jocg27]

Agree about the sexism part. Ob/gyn is a surgical subspecialty that's mostly female (that was a patient preference thing, by the way); thus it's easy to mark them as "bitches." I ran into a-holes of both genders on each and every single rotation, definitely mostly on surgery though. There's no secret to "getting by" on the rotation. Work hard and take it seriously just as you would any other rotation.

.

NEVER heard bitchiness attributed to, say, pediatrics, another specialty that more women than men enter.

Nor have I really heard that female surgeons not in OB are particularly bitchy, ie, worse than male surgeons in the same field.

Just saying...

 

[jocg27]

Look, every male resident I have worked with in stressful fields could be just as big of a jerk as any female resident can be. I honestly think there is a sexist mythology surrounding OB where people feel entitled to trash their residents when they are being jerks on the basis of their sex and somehow attribute bit**iness to the specialty as a whole. I have worked with some of the biggest jerks in the world in General Surg...residents to attendings...but nobody attacked these people on the basis of sex and no one made overwhelming statements about surgery as a whole based on these people being a**'s...I mean, when have you heard someone say "why are there so many a**hole guys in surgery?" This is sexist crap, let's face it. .

I don't know...I thought it was common knowledge and fairly frequently noted that surgery is full of a**hole guys.

 

[Alician]

Fight sexism with sexism.
FWIW I had phenom residents on OB, not a B in the bunch. Even the interns were low stress. You just have to know how to deal with the different personalities. Though OB/GYN way overhypes the amount of work they do, long hours but very very easy work.

What do you mean by very very easy work? Are you an OB/GYN resident?

 

[Alician]

Ok I understand.

I think people tend to equate OB/GYN with labor and delivery but forget there is a lot of other parts to the residency. For example gynecologic oncology with a large amount of time spent in the operating room and on the wards managing very sick patients. I don't know why we all insist on trying to put down everyone elses specialty. I think we all work hard in somewhat different ways.

 

[jocg27]

Maybe Jocg27 is referring to the care algorhythms posted on every L&D and Ob/Gyn clinic that tells them what to do in every circumstance?

I didn't say anything about easy work or refer to any algorithms. I would never suggest that an entire medical specialty is easy.

perhaps you are too Tired jk

 

[MeowMix]

Ob gets unfairly stereotyped, in my opinion.

Compared to my Medicine interns, the Ob/Gyn interns were fantastic. I have 2 male and 1 female medicine interns on the team. They are moody, irritable, and negative every day. One is amazingly arrogant and rude. Two of them are very disrespectful toward the nurses, who dislike them a lot. They hate their current site and assignment and tell us every day how much they look forward to switching soon. As you can imagine, this is not exactly a great learning experience for the MS3s. At least the Ob interns all wanted to be in Ob, liked their work, and weren't just killing time until they could get to their fellowship in some other field or end their transitional year.

 

[MOHS_01]

let me kick you in the teeth for hours on end, years in a row, and see how happy and pleasant you are.............

 

[futureob]

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[futureEM]

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[iatrosB]

So...my fiancee and I are couples matching. I am doing emergency medicine and my fiancee is doing OB/Gyn. I have accompanied her to 13 OB/Gyn night before "socials." 11 of these involved assembling at a resident's house for drinks, finger food, and meeting the residents. We have enjoyed most of these, save for a few where environmental factors (i.e., house full of cats) made some people uncomfortable (*achoo*). 1 of the 13 was a meet and greet at a restaurant for drinks and hors d'oeuvres...a nice change of pace from the house party scene, which is apparently unique to OB/Gyn since EM takes us out to dinner everywhere I go. So the first 12 of these things were fine...but #13 is one for the ages.

The most recent social we attended was held at the hospital. My fiancee had emailed the residency coordinator asking if it was OK that I come, since all the other social invites had made a point of including all significant others but this one had not. The email response was a terse "fine, he can come." So we finally get to this thing and walk in the hospital board room, where roughly a dozen applicants and a handful of residents were seated around a table and silently watching newcomers file through the door. The room was so quiet it was spooky. No one really made a point of greeting us, so we walked to the end of the table where a large spread of reconstituted finger food sat. This food had to be left over from earlier in the day if it wasn't days old. We retreated to our seats by which time some conversation had started amongst applicants and residents. One of the residents came over to meet us, and was friendly enough to be interested in our names and where we were from. After finding out she was an intern, we asked...out of custom..."so, how's intern year going?" We weren't that surprised when she said "well, it SUCKS," since that's a fairly common complaint among interns due to hours and work load. But then she volunteered the next 57 reasons for why intern year at her institution in particular sucked so aggressively. This disturbing conversation was followed by an even more disturbing Q&A session between the applicants and residents. We were informed that the residents at this institution only get off 3 weekends per year as 2nd and 3rd years (NONE as interns), exceed work hours all 4 years (not even including home call, which doesn't count on the time sheet but which requires them to come in frequently), and that one of their resident spots had been filled by 3 different people before they found a fourth that could actually tolerate intern year to completion. The most telling statement of the night came when one of the upper levels said one of his fondest memories in residency came when he was an intern and an attending said, jokingly, "you're fired." The fond moment came when this resident imagined how much better unemployment would be than working one more day in the program.

The first 5 minutes of the night were funny, but it was really sad after that. I don't think this night is a microcosm of the OB/Gyn universe...most OB residents are happy, enjoy their programs, and are excellent physicians from what I can tell in my social and professional encounters with them...but unfortunately, these residents' experience IS the norm in some places. Treating residents like this is not necessary to train good physicians, and will, on occasion, produce a "moody and unpleasant" resident.

WOW! Holy crap. I assume this one's not going on the rank list.

 

[Packamylase]

^^ and ^^^, I'm assuming futureob and futureEM are the fiancees. Did you pick your usernames together?

 

[futureob]

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[oxl]

Hey, i'm glad you told this story i'm pretty sure that I know where this is, and glad to know that the residents aren't happy, they told me they were!