Why is reddit so full of rainbows and butterflies regarding EM?

[cyanide12345678]

I don’t get it. We’re consistently the highest burn out specialty. We didn’t get there by being the happiest and most satisfied physicians with our careers.

But dare anyone say anything negative on Reddit then everyone jumps claiming EM is the best thing since sliced bread.

Maybe im just crusty…

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[JacobMcCandles]

All of Reddit is basically the exact opposite of real life.

Except for the home improvement and associated subreddits, those are gold.

 

[RustedFox]

It's because the youngins like reddit. Most posters there are students, rezzies, and new attendings who are either sheltered from reality, or are new to the real world and are still in denial.

No joke; those guys are L O S T .

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

It's mostly medical students and premeds for whom "EM is the only thing i see myself doing."

 

[nVictus]

"I can't see myself doing anything else"

"I get bored easy"

"I like to do everything"

Residencies and hospitals do a great job at hiding what community EM practice is actually like.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Residencies and hospitals do a great job at hiding what community EM practice is actually like.

To be fair, most academic places and their faculty don’t know what community EM is like.

 

[Apollyon]

To be fair, most academic places and their faculty don’t know what community EM is like.

Some animals have to live in the zoo, because they can't survive in the wild.

 

[TrailRun]

Everyone thinks they are different, I know I did. But didn’t realize as a Med student shadowing that in between the two interesting cases I saw, the attending saw 5 low acuity drunk psych etc

 

[RustedFox]

Some animals have to live in the zoo, because they can't survive in the wild.

This axiom needs to be immortalized on here, somehow.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I don’t get it. We’re consistently the highest burn out specialty. We didn’t get there by being the happiest and most satisfied physicians with our careers.

But dare anyone say anything negative on Reddit then everyone jumps claiming EM is the best thing since sliced bread.

Maybe im just crusty…

Because nothing on Reddit resembles reality. This goes for all subreddits, medicine included.

 

[RustedFox]

It's mostly medical students and premeds for whom "EM is the only thing i see myself doing."

I said those words at one time, too.
Jesus.
I wish that never happened. Really wish.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I have spent literal hours trying to convince some med students I really like to do something else. They don’t get it. Now it’s “I wouldn’t do this”. I don’t force feed my thoughts. They want to talk more about it we can but this is their choice. I can’t care more about them than they care about themselves. A harsh reality is right around the corner. Maybe I’m wrong and can’t read the tea leaves. Maybe I’m right and if so it will be a very very painful situation for people.

 

[Mbekweni]

I think that SDN is generally more negative on EM than average and has about 10-20 active posters who drive the narrative. I work in a good SDG and am generally quite happy, think it is fair, and while I would like to cut back and work less I’m still satisfied with my career choice. Some of the popular threads on here right now have some great points especially about the exploitation inherent to CMG work especially in markets they totally control- and prospective residents should read them and be aware of the challenges but it’s not all doom and gloom.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I think that SDN is generally more negative on EM than average and has about 10-20 active posters who drive the narrative. I work in a good SDG and am generally quite happy, think it is fair, and while I would like to cut back and work less I’m still satisfied with my career choice. Some of the popular threads on here right now have some great points especially about the exploitation inherent to CMG work especially in markets they totally control- and prospective residents should read them and be aware of the challenges but it’s not all doom and gloom.

More outspoken certainly, but i dont think more negative.

Poll your colleagues. Very few a trupy happy at work.

It's a problem when out PGY3s and 4s are already looking for ways out.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

More outspoken certainly, but i dont think more negative.

Poll your colleagues. Very few a trupy happy at work.

It's a problem when out PGY3s and 4s are already looking for ways out.

Most people aren’t truly happy at work. That’s why it’s called work. My co-workers are busy doing things outside of work instead of posting everyday on the internet about how bad they hate their job and how burned out they are.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Most people aren’t truly happy at work. That’s why it’s called work. My co-workers are busy doing things outside of work instead of posting everyday on the internet about how bad they hate their job and how burned out they are.

Are you saying that they’re burned out but just not talking about it, or that they must not be burned out if they’re not proactively bringing it up?

Anyways, some of the most burned out people I know are not writing anything on the internet either.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Are you saying that they’re burned out but just not talking about it, or that they must not be burned out if they’re not proactively bringing it up?

Anyways, some of the most burned out people I know are not writing anything on the internet either.

I’m saying that getting on the internet and posting about how much you dislike your job is likely making you dislike your job even more and on goes the cycle. I imagine the person enjoying time doing things outside of medicine vs. constantly posting about their dissatisfaction on the internet is probably doing better all things considered.

 

[RustedFox]

I've spent a decent enough amount of time over there on reddit to notice that the ones who speak positively about EM are generally no more than 2-3 years out or less. The kids have no idea.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

I’m saying that getting on the internet and posting about how much you dislike your job is likely making you dislike your job even more and on goes the cycle. I imagine the person enjoying time doing things outside of medicine vs. constantly posting about their dissatisfaction on the internet is probably doing better all things considered.

I think you’ve got cause and effect backwards, or at the very least vastly overestimating the downside of acknowledging non-positive feelings.

I imagine if you removed the internet access of the unhappy posters—before they made their first posts, even—they’d still be dissatisfied with their situations (all you’d accomplish is to make it a lot easier for others to pretend the unhappiness doesn’t exist).

 

[JacobMcCandles]

I think you’ve got cause and effect backwards, or at the very least vastly overestimating the downside of acknowledging non-positive feelings.

I imagine if you removed the internet access of the unhappy posters—before they made their first posts, even—they’d still be dissatisfied with their situations (all you’d accomplish is to make it a lot easier for others to pretend the unhappiness doesn’t exist).

Do you think time is better spent with family, working out, doing something you enjoy or continually dwelling on something you despise that you either have little control over or you won’t do what’s necessary to change your situation?

If it’s something you can’t/won’t change then why not direct that energy to something positive?

 

[nVictus]

I have maybe 30 cell phone numbers in my phone right now of EM docs that have been practicing 5-15 years, maybe 1 of them I would guess would say they are happy. The other 29 are unhappy, thinking of leaving, or have left EM. Anecdote isn't data but it's valid enough for me.

Med students and residents have a very poor understanding of community EM and I see these "negative" posters as people trying to paint a very real picture of what it means to practice EM.

No one was negative on EM when I was applying or training in residency. Maybe I wasn't hearing it, maybe people were afraid to speak out, or maybe EM got crappier. Whatever the reason, social media today allows our potential colleagues to have informed decision making.

 

[RustedFox]

Do you think time is better spent with family, working out, doing something you enjoy or continually dwelling on something you despise that you either have little control over or you won’t do what’s necessary to change your situation?

If it’s something you can’t/won’t change then why not direct that energy to something positive?

Because the more of us that speak out, the more we can effect the choices of those to come after us.

Duh.

That moves the needle.

McCandless isn't some boomer jackass and actually thinks about the future.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Because the more of us that speak out, the more we can effect the choices of those to come after us.

Duh.

That moves the needle.

McCandless isn't some boomer jackass and actually thinks about the future.

It isn’t the people that are applying to the residency spots, it’s the sheer number of spots. Those are the people we should be speaking to.

I’m not opposed to saving the specialty by letting it burn down a bit. Get those bright-eyed and bushy-tailed med students into EM. It’ll crush their soul and they’ll leave the specialty.

 

[RustedFox]

It isn’t the people that are applying to the residency spots, it’s the sheer number of spots. Those are the people we should be speaking to.

I’m not opposed to saving the specialty by letting it burn down a bit. Get those bright-eyed and bushy-tailed med students into EM. It’ll crush their soul and they’ll leave the specialty.

Spots going fallow also hurts them.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

It isn’t the people that are applying to the residency spots, it’s the sheer number of spots. Those are the people we should be speaking to.

I’m not opposed to saving the specialty by letting it burn down a bit. Get those bright-eyed and bushy-tailed med students into EM. It’ll crush their soul and they’ll leave the specialty.

Do you think time is better spent with family, working out, doing something you enjoy or continually dwelling on something you despise that you either have little control over or you won’t do what’s necessary to change your situation?

If it’s something you can’t/won’t change then why not direct that energy to something positive?

So on one hand you criticize people venting (btw i have plenty of hobbies thx lol), and then with the other you wish for more sacrificial meat to feed to the EM grinder.

🧐

 

[JacobMcCandles]

So on one hand you criticize people venting (btw i have plenty of hobbies thx lol), and then with the other you wish for more sacrificial meat to feed to the EM grinder.

🧐

Either way, I know I won’t change the ultimate issue. It’ll take something much bigger than me to change it. I just do what I can to positively impact my situation and those other situations I can impact.

 

[Goro]

I don’t get it. We’re consistently the highest burn out specialty. We didn’t get there by being the happiest and most satisfied physicians with our careers.

But dare anyone say anything negative on Reddit then everyone jumps claiming EM is the best thing since sliced bread.

Maybe im just crusty…

Premeds?????

Reddit is the cesspool of the internet, after all.

Lots of the kiddos over there hate SDN because we have this habit of telling what they need to hear, not what they want to hear.

 

[cyanide12345678]

I have maybe 30 cell phone numbers in my phone right now of EM docs that have been practicing 5-15 years, maybe 1 of them I would guess would say they are happy. The other 29 are unhappy, thinking of leaving, or have left EM. Anecdote isn't data but it's valid enough for me.

Med students and residents have a very poor understanding of community EM and I see these "negative" posters as people trying to paint a very real picture of what it means to practice EM.

No one was negative on EM when I was applying or training in residency. Maybe I wasn't hearing it, maybe people were afraid to speak out, or maybe EM got crappier. Whatever the reason, social media today allows our potential colleagues to have informed decision making.

I interviewed in 2015 for residency - so not terribly long ago. Most attendings from an outsiders perspective seemed happy at that time. They couldn't stop raving about the opportunities they had in EM and the 100 weekly recruiter emails they got. Now that I'm an attending and have attending peers, everyone seems to have a little regret. I don't know what changed or maybe I was just blind to criticism as a med student as well.

 

[thegenius]

I think that SDN is generally more negative on EM than average and has about 10-20 active posters who drive the narrative. I work in a good SDG and am generally quite happy, think it is fair, and while I would like to cut back and work less I’m still satisfied with my career choice. Some of the popular threads on here right now have some great points especially about the exploitation inherent to CMG work especially in markets they totally control- and prospective residents should read them and be aware of the challenges but it’s not all doom and gloom.

I agree

 

[AlvinKamara]

Some animals have to live in the zoo, because they can't survive in the wild.

Or they’re smart and they’ve figured out how to make EM a sustainable enterprise for them.

 

[WorkNoteEmergency]

Most people aren’t truly happy at work. That’s why it’s called work. My co-workers are busy doing things outside of work instead of posting everyday on the internet about how bad they hate their job and how burned out they are.

We yell on the internet instead of yelling at nurses and our children.

 

[Birdstrike]

I've never perused the EM sections of Reddit, but is it because they're skewed younger and haven't been in EM very long?

 

[cyanide12345678]

I've never perused the EM sections of Reddit, but is it because they're skewed younger and haven't been in EM very long?

All the people here that complain are essentially all 10+ year members of this place. So it’s definitely full of some seasoned players. In comparison i guess Reddit is meant for the young crowd - it’s sad to realize I’m no longer part of the young crowd 🤣

 

[RustedFox]

Bird didn't read the thread.

Yes. They're kids. They have no idea.

 

[nVictus]

Or they’re smart and they’ve figured out how to make EM a sustainable enterprise for them.

So they are in an insulated area of EM, with limited openings, leading ignorant lambs to the slaughter. Overdramatic but the point still stands.

 

[Birdstrike]

Bird didn't read the thread.

You're correct. My bad.

Seeing the words "EM" "Butterflies" and "Rainbows" together made me recoil from the thread in horror, until I could gather sufficient strength for a glancing view.

 

[hoot504]

Perusing the threads on there, it definitely feels like the daycare that med students and EM interns go to when they're off shift.

There's currently a thread called "What levels of troponin are considered normal?"

There's also a riveting thread about US cord management.

 

[Birdstrike]

Stage 1 - Reddit EM

 

[Birdstrike]

Stage 2- Reality sets in, but coping. Still on Reddit, but starting to ask questions.

 

[Birdstrike]

Stage 3 - Moves to SDN-EM "Exit options," "Early Retirement" and "F.I.R.E."

 

[Birdstrike]

Post-EM

Bye

 

[RustedFox]

Birdstrike wins the internet for the day.
That first picture. Yep. That's exactly it.

 

[EctopicFetus]

The youngins can say we are a crotchety bunch. My residency had 16 a class. 4 of them (all women) have left em to some degree. 1 is doing health care consulting. 0 clinical shifts.

Another is doing integrative medicine, 0 em
Shifts

Another works in business and works 2-3 em shifts a month ( on her terms).

Another works 4-6 em shifts and does some admin work for her group.

We are mid 40s. That recent study talked about how women leave the em workforce in their late 40s. So yeah the kids want sunshine and rainbows. This is the reality. 3 of these 4 women worked for sdgs.

It’s cause em is hard. Fwiw our training was much tougher than what the kids do today. Much of it was stupid and meaningless abuse. I’m just saying when these Reddit children join reality and are at year 10 they too will be planning their exit.

 

[cyanide12345678]

The youngins can say we are a crotchety bunch. My residency had 16 a class. 4 of them (all women) have left em to some degree. 1 is doing health care consulting. 0 clinical shifts.

Another is doing integrative medicine, 0 em
Shifts

Another works in business and works 2-3 em shifts a month ( on her terms).

Another works 4-6 em shifts and does some admin work for her group.

We are mid 40s. That recent study talked about how women leave the em workforce in their late 40s. So yeah the kids want sunshine and rainbows. This is the reality. 3 of these 4 women worked for sdgs.

It’s cause em is hard. Fwiw our training was much tougher than what the kids do today. Much of it was stupid and meaningless abuse. I’m just saying when these Reddit children join reality and are at year 10 they too will be planning their exit.

Though the lifestyle of consulting is probably worse than EM. Hard to do that as well in to your 40s with most gigs requiring a lot of traveling.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Though the lifestyle of consulting is probably worse than EM. Hard to do that as well in to your 40s with most gigs requiring a lot of traveling.

No travel for her. Remote work. Moved from California to Colorado. More like a content expert for a digital ai health company. You know. Use the most recent business buzz word.

Long ago was nanotech, then more recently crypto and blockchain.

Current business buzzword is AI even if it’s the same thing you were doing 5 years ago.

 

[RustedFox]

WTF is "integrative medicine"?
Is that like "functional medicine"... which is meaningless by itself as a term?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Yes

 

[Birdstrike]

Here's one for ya,

Climate Change Medicine

 

[emergentmd]

People who have a happy home life typically will have a happy work life and not the other way around.

Part of the reason lots on here are negative is b/c they saw how it was 10 yrs ago. Money really hasn't dropped, but work environment is much worse.

If EM is making your miserable, look at your home life. Fix that, cut down on some shifts, and things typically will work out. If this doesn't work, then look for something else other than working the PIT.

I always loved working in the PIT even when I did my last shift. Happy wife, happy life, work is all good. I met alot of great people, pts were mostly nice, admin was OK. Focus on the good and not the bad. Fix the bad if you can. Work is work, do you 8-12 hrs, and look forward to going home.

 

[EctopicFetus]

People who have a happy home life typically will have a happy work life and not the other way around.

Part of the reason lots on here are negative is b/c they saw how it was 10 yrs ago. Money really hasn't dropped, but work environment is much worse.

If EM is making your miserable, look at your home life. Fix that, cut down on some shifts, and things typically will work out. If this doesn't work, then look for something else other than working the PIT.

I always loved working in the PIT even when I did my last shift. Happy wife, happy life, work is all good. I met alot of great people, pts were mostly nice, admin was OK. Focus on the good and not the bad. Fix the bad if you can. Work is work, do you 8-12 hrs, and look forward to going home.

Interesting perspective. As I said I enjoy work. That being said if the money dried up I’m out. If a cmg took over I’m also out.

Imo working for a cmg or low pay (my definition) would lead to tremendous unhappiness at work.

Maybe I’m wrong and cmg land won’t be that bad I don’t want to hate it before I leave.

I’ve also never seen a cmg posted job and been like man that money looks good. Closest I have ever seen was a recent locums offer I got 275/hr. 24s fairly local to me and 13 patients a day.

I still said Nfw. The money isn’t great obviously but for the unit of work it’s not bad. I could Go there and do a bunch of other work there but I still couldn’t justify it to myself.