why is it so hard to get into dermatology?

[Brain Bucket]

lol spot on. carib schools can be so sketchy.

sup pre-pharm?

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[DermViser]

ya, that'd be nice in an ideal world, but unfortunately, many emergencies don't happen between office hours, Monday through Friday

So then this is inherent to the specific specialty itself. This is something any medical student can easily see or directly look up. Also a lot of lifestyle is based on specific type of practice as well.

 

[DermViser]

Are you trolling? Do have any idea about the level of competition to match derm? They don't need to sift through a stack of applicants who didn't have the stuff to make it into a US school. They have tons of superbly qualified applicants from top US medical schools with known derm people backing them.

Not everyone gets a trophy for showing up in this contest. Get used to it.

No he's not trolling, but he is a pre-pharmacy student.

 

[DermViser]

why is it that for residencys they would rather pick US students rather than caribean med students to match in lets say dermatlogy? whats the reasoning.

Here's why: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...al-school-rejects-as-taxpayers-fund-debt.html

 

[Anastomoses]

Wait, 81% of them are matching? To hear it on SDN these people are guaranteed to be out of a job. Is this accurate?

 

[DermViser]

How many imgs match into derm? I doubt very many.

The ones that do were usually ones who were dermatologists in their home native countries, and when coming here did YEARS of research with publications in Derm, many times unpaid, bc they can't get a medical license since they have no GME, not even an internship.

It's like an interview that lasts for years, in which you're essentially evaluated by anyone you come in contact with. Even then, they usually match at the very program they were doing research in.

 

[DermViser]

Wait, 81% of them are matching? To hear it on SDN these people are guaranteed to be out of a job. Is this accurate?

That number is probably massaged quite a bit by the medical school as it is self-reported. You don't think Carribean medical schools are going to give real statistics, hurting their future profit margins do you? These include people who only match into an internship, but no residency.

 

[Brain Bucket]

Wait, 81% of them are matching? To hear it on SDN these people are guaranteed to be out of a job. Is this accurate?

That's after the 30-40% attrition rate (depending on the school + year) as well as after doing ALL their rotations in the states.

Other IMGs become ineligible for certain residency programs if they do any more than 12 weeks of away rotations.

Ross is going through a bad patch anyway.

The ones that do were usually ones who were dermatologists in their home native countries, and when coming here did YEARS of research with publications in Derm.

That's exactly right. Many of them are established dermatologists (usually with multiple publications) in their home countries. This is true of other competitive residencies as well.

 

[Psai]

Wait, 81% of them are matching? To hear it on SDN these people are guaranteed to be out of a job. Is this accurate?

It's like when a premed office advertises that 95% of their students get into medical school but don't tell you that they don't write committee letters for people who don't have a certain GPA.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Really? Your reasoning is that you like colors and shapes so you choose derm.

Now you're just grasping at straws

OK, we get it, man. You're a cards fellow/attending who really hates Derm. We get it.

The amount of **** derm catches from everyone is a just another indicator of exactly how great the field is. I believe it was Socrates that once said "Haters will indeed hate."

Actually, I believe it was Arkangeloid who said all that. Also, Jelly.

Also, LOL at the Carib student who cited matches in radiology and gen surg (and anesthesia I guess) to say that derm is a possibility. Sure it's *technically* a possibility, but it's very, very, very, very, very (like 10 more of those) unlikely.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Wait, 81% of them are matching? To hear it on SDN these people are guaranteed to be out of a job. Is this accurate?

It's more like 80% of 75-80% of the total incoming class (due to the attrition rate), and likely includes people who matched into a prelim-only year.

 

[Psai]

It's more like 80% of 75-80% of the total incoming class (due to the attrition rate), and likely includes people who matched into a prelim-only year.

Oh yeah, I see those press releases that say things like oh our students are choosing our residencies blah blah and then I look at their match list with prelims in the area but pgy2-4 are elsewhere.

 

[titanlord1]

why does dermatology reqquire a 240+ USMLE step 1 score?

 

[CherryRedDracul]

why does dermatology reqquire a 240+ USMLE step 1 score?

I assume you've read through the thread and learned about the advantages of derm. And because of those advantages, a lot of people would be willing to apply to derm. So, why not take the cream of the crop, the applicants with the highest Step 1 scores? Once that's established, it's easier to set a semi-arbitrary cut-off score so that programs don't have to sift through a million applicants when they'd be picking the best of the best anyway.


tl;dr version: competition.

 

[DermViser]

why does dermatology reqquire a 240+ USMLE step 1 score?

Please go away. Your questions as a pre-Pharm student, are getting more and more ridiculous. STOP TROLLING.

 

[Dave89]

What I'm curious about is whether the more competitive specialties actually require more brainpower.

For instance, do dermatologists have to be smarter than those who are in "lowly" Pediatrics*, or are the hoops that applicants have to jump through simply there because the Derm people have the leverage to snatch up the most boast-worthy applicants?

I suspect that it's the latter, but I'd like to hear others' opinions.




*in case anyone gets offended by this, this is a joke.

 

[Anastomoses]

What I'm curious about is whether the more competitive specialties actually require more brainpower.

For instance, do dermatologists have to be smarter than those who are in "lowly" Pediatrics*, or are the hoops that applicants have to jump through simply there because the Derm people have the leverage to snatch up the most boast-worthy applicants?

I suspect that it's the latter, but I'd like to hear others' opinions.

*in case anyone gets offended by this, this is a joke.

Why is this a joke? It's falling flat on me.

Anyway, to address your post, I think it's quite obvious that this is a matter of supply and demand. All specialties could be quite fascinating if you delve into the most academic and detailed aspects. Pediatrics seems particularly challenging in that you're dealing with a ridiculous range of ages which translates to a number of peculiarities depending on age of which the doctor must be aware.

 

[DermViser]

What I'm curious about is whether the more competitive specialties actually require more brainpower.

For instance, do dermatologists have to be smarter than those who are in "lowly" Pediatrics*, or are the hoops that applicants have to jump through simply there because the Derm people have the leverage to snatch up the most boast-worthy applicants?

I suspect that it's the latter, but I'd like to hear others' opinions.

*in case anyone gets offended by this, this is a joke.

I'll say that it requires a lot of brainpower, bc the level of extensive detail on the Dermatology boards is enormous (@GuyWhoDoesStuff might have more to contribute), which even then a non-insignificant number still fail. It's like med school basic sciences on steroids. So yes, I believe that if you want to be a board certified practicing Dermatologist, then yes, you have to be "smarter".

 

[DermViser]

Why is this a joke? It's falling flat on me.

Anyway, to address your post, I think it's quite obvious that this is a matter of supply and demand. All specialties could be quite fascinating if you delve into the most academic and detailed aspects. Pediatrics seems particularly challenging in that you're dealing with a ridiculous range of ages which translates to a number of peculiarities depending on age of which the doctor must be aware.

In Peds, a lot of the stuff that residents have to deal with is the mundane. You don't really get to enjoy the detailed academic aspects. Those who want that go into subspecialties. That being said, besides the top programs, most pediatricians DON'T WANT to delve into those aspects. They want to practice clinically and that's it.

If you like basic science, you'll like Derm (bc of the emphasis on Immunology, Histology, Pathology, etc.) If you don't, you'll absolutely hate Derm. Derm in residency is very academic. Pediatrics doesn't tend to emphasize basic science as much, which isn't surprising as it is more primary care focused.

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

I'll say that it requires a lot of brainpower, bc the level of extensive detail on the Dermatology boards is enormous (@GuyWhoDoesStuff might have more to contribute), which even then a non-insignificant number still fail. It's like med school basic sciences on steroids. So yes, I believe that if you want to be a board certified practicing Dermatologist, then yes, you have to be "smarter".

Contrary to popular belief you do not have to be smart to do derm. I will tell you a quick trick to solving all your derm issues.

"If its wet make it dry, if its dry make it wet"

- all dermatology issues are solved.

 

[Anastomoses]

Contrary to popular belief you do not have to be smart to do derm. I will tell you a quick trick to solving all your derm issues.

"If its wet make it dry, if its dry make it wet"

- all dermatology issues are solved.

but what if you didn't do that in time!!!

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

but what if you didn't do that in time!!!

Biopsy and send a sample to pathology

 

[Instatewaiter]

Biopsy and send a sample to pathology

then give steroids

 

[username456789]

then give steroids

You should see how quickly clobetasol can clear up dysplastic nevi. It is truly something to behold.

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

i know that its difficult but my question is how/why is it so difficult. i know many people want to get into it ( which makes it difficult) but why is there such a drive to enter dermatology?

actually i thought about it, the skin is the largest organ in the body, and to study the largest organ in the body you have to have the largest brains.

 

[Nasrudin]

In Peds, a lot of the stuff that residents have to deal with is the mundane. You don't really get to enjoy the detailed academic aspects. Those who want that go into subspecialties. That being said, besides the top programs, most pediatricians DON'T WANT to delve into those aspects. They want to practice clinically and that's it.

If you like basic science, you'll like Derm (bc of the emphasis on Immunology, Histology, Pathology, etc.) If you don't, you'll absolutely hate Derm. Derm in residency is very academic. Pediatrics doesn't tend to emphasize basic science as much, which isn't surprising as it is more primary care focused.

Don't be silly. Passing pediatric boards is challenging as well. Still remember your genetic errors of metabolism pathophysiology? The majority of every specialty is mundane once you get good at it.

If you think you guys have high achievers because derm requires intellect you're delusional. It's a cush, money making, chill gig, with a tiny number of training spots. End of story.

 

[titanlord1]

Why is this a joke? It's falling flat on me.

Anyway, to address your post, I think it's quite obvious that this is a matter of supply and demand. All specialties could be quite fascinating if you delve into the most academic and detailed aspects. Pediatrics seems particularly challenging in that you're dealing with a ridiculous range of ages which translates to a number of peculiarities depending on age of which the doctor must be aware.

thats why im confused is it just competition to get into the feild of dermatology? is dermatology more stressfull/ harder work thats why they require a higher USMLE since they want to know if youll be able to handle it?

 

[username456789]

Still remember your genetic errors of metabolism pathophysiology?

Absolutely, because they're very highly tested on Derm inservice/licensing exams, actually.

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

Absolutely, because they're very highly tested on Derm inservice/licensing exams, actually.

Quick tell me the skin manifestations of methylmalonic aciduria.

 

[Nasrudin]

Absolutely, because they're very highly tested on Derm inservice/licensing exams, actually.

Ok you defeated my post on a technicality. Like Clinton interpreting cigar penetration as not being sex. Whereas, given your level of academic performance to match derm, I'm quite certain you know exactly wtf I was getting at. Which still sits there uneaten like a **** sandwich.

I'll make it more obvious. Derm is not a special snowflake of intellectual demand despite the level of performance required of its applicants to match.

 

[VisionaryTics]

I'll say that it requires a lot of brainpower, bc the level of extensive detail on the Dermatology boards is enormous (@GuyWhoDoesStuff might have more to contribute), which even then a non-insignificant number still fail. It's like med school basic sciences on steroids. So yes, I believe that if you want to be a board certified practicing Dermatologist, then yes, you have to be "smarter".

Ya, all those specialties with lower average board scores than derm are just not academically rigorous. Like IM, neuro, neurosurgery, gen surg, radiology...

 

[Nasrudin]

Ya, all those specialties with lower average board scores than derm are just not academically rigorous. Like IM, neuro, neurosurgery, gen surg, radiology...

Exactly. Here I am ready to defend the rights of typical high achieving, sychophantic, arrogant medical students to be themselves and to seek rewards of chillaxation and compensation without shame and my 2 clients take the stand to trash the jury of their peers for being dull uncomprehending common folk.

You just can't win as a pan-physician public defender.

 

[WaylonS]

Ya, all those specialties with lower average board scores than derm are just not academically rigorous. Like IM, neuro, neurosurgery, gen surg, radiology...

Derm is most similar to rads: you have to know random facts and minutia from all specialties. While radiologists are also tested on physics, dermatologists are also tested on the ability to read and diagnose histopathology.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Contrary to popular belief you do not have to be smart to do derm. I will tell you a quick trick to solving all your derm issues.

"If its wet make it dry, if its dry make it wet"

- all dermatology issues are solved.

Not this **** again.

why does dermatology reqquire a 240+ USMLE step 1 score?

You serious? Seems like you have some problems with reading comprehension, as you are literally in the thread that explains the competitiveness (and thus, Derm can take students that perform better in medical school)

In Peds, a lot of the stuff that residents have to deal with is the mundane. You don't really get to enjoy the detailed academic aspects. Those who want that go into subspecialties. That being said, besides the top programs, most pediatricians DON'T WANT to delve into those aspects. They want to practice clinically and that's it.

If you like basic science, you'll like Derm (bc of the emphasis on Immunology, Histology, Pathology, etc.) If you don't, you'll absolutely hate Derm. Derm in residency is very academic. Pediatrics doesn't tend to emphasize basic science as much, which isn't surprising as it is more primary care focused.

I don't necessarily agree with all of this. I can imagine that Derm boards/in-service exam have more of a focus on basic sciences when compared to Ped boards/in-service exams, but I don't know if one set of in-service exams would be easier than the other. Different, sure.

I realize you didn't explicitly state that (more of that they deal with 'mundane' things), but I'm going to guess you meant to infer it. I don't think you can make a reputable comment on the difficulty of Peds in-service exams.

 

[Brain Bucket]

got overzealous only to realize that I didn't care.

 

[username456789]

and my 2 clients take the stand to trash the jury of their peers for being dull uncomprehending common folk.

Who's trashing other specialties aside from DV?

 

[VisionaryTics]

Who's trashing other specialties aside from DV?

GWDS has been a reasonable member of this forum for a long time. Dermviser's MO has been to spam every thread with "derm rulez, everything else droolz"

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Here's why: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...al-school-rejects-as-taxpayers-fund-debt.html

Jeez. They should just add this table to the smileys or something so that it can be easily inserted into any carib debate thread.

I really think the US needs to start looking long and hard at whether these students should be given federal loans. Same for for-profit online colleges. The default rate on these loans, as compared to "normal" college loans and US MD loans has got to be crazy high.

"If its wet make it dry, if its dry make it wet"

Don't forget the dermatology physical exam:

"If you know what it is, you don't have to touch it. If you don't know what it is, for God's sake don't touch it!"

 

[Anastomoses]

I realize you didn't explicitly state that (more of that they deal with 'mundane' things), but I'm going to guess you meant to infer it. I don't think you can make a reputable comment on the difficulty of Peds in-service exams.

imply vs infer. learn it today.

 

[Nasrudin]

Who's trashing other specialties aside from DV?

Help me help you. There is the stink of insulation of superiority emanating from your camp. I'm not here to sift through your extremely selective remarks.

Simply state whether you are convinced your field requires more intellect or not. That way we isolate the source.

I will always attack the pervasive field elitism and faction creation in our profession. Risking bystanders to make the point.

 

[evilbooyaa]

imply vs infer. learn it today.

Whatever, you know what I meant.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

imply vs infer. learn it today.

"The implier is the pitcher; the inferrer is the catcher." - Theodore Bernstein

 

[Anastomoses]

Whatever, you know what I meant.

that was purely altruistic. It's a good one to get down early.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

If you rearrange the letters in "dermatology", you get "DREAMtology".












Alright, enough groan-inducing posts. Back to studying.

 

[DermViser]

Contrary to popular belief you do not have to be smart to do derm. I will tell you a quick trick to solving all your derm issues.

"If its wet make it dry, if its dry make it wet"

- all dermatology issues are solved.

And if it's bullous pemphigoid then what?

 

[DermViser]

Don't be silly. Passing pediatric boards is challenging as well. Still remember your genetic errors of metabolism pathophysiology? The majority of every specialty is mundane once you get good at it.

If you think you guys have high achievers because derm requires intellect you're delusional. It's a cush, money making, chill gig, with a tiny number of training spots. End of story.

Besides Genetic disorders of Pediatrics (which makes sense why it's heavy on basic science), are there any other organ systems that are taught basic science heavy on the boards? Most likely not. Like I said, those who like more academics go into pediatric subspecialties.

 

[DermViser]

Ya, all those specialties with lower average board scores than derm are just not academically rigorous. Like IM, neuro, neurosurgery, gen surg, radiology...

Uh, have you seen the average board score to match into Radiology, Neurosurgery, etc. They're on par with Derm.

 

[Nasrudin]

Besides Genetic disorders of Pediatrics (which makes sense why it's heavy on basic science), are there any other organ systems that are taught basic science heavy on the boards? Most likely not. Like I said, those who like more academics go into pediatric subspecialties.

I was dermviser neutral. Maybe even in agreement with most of your stuff. Thinking, only passingly, of your prolific posting in my occasional allo forum jaunts.

But if you think my impressions of your academic prowess as an applicant pool doesn't also lead me to believe you cohort most likely, by survival necessity, has no gag reflex on wards. Or can't gulp down cocks whole. Two at a time. Think again. Which brings me around to the inherent superiority of your field that you exude...it stinks. For the same reason we can never get together long enough to organize ourselves--that type of crap your putting down in the posts above.

 

[DermViser]

I was dermviser neutral. Maybe even in agreement with most of your stuff. Thinking, only passingly, of your prolific posting in my occasional allo forum jaunts.

But if you think my impressions of your academic prowess as an applicant pool doesn't also lead me to believe you cohort most likely, by survival necessity, has no gag reflex on wards. Or can't gulp down cocks whole. Two at a time. Think again. Which brings me around to the inherent superiority of your field that you exude...it stinks. For the same reason we can never get together long enough to organize ourselves--that type of crap your putting down in the posts above.

Give me a break. Are you going to really make the argument that General Pediatrics boards is very heavy on basic science? Really?

 

[Anastomoses]

Give me a break. Are you going to really make the argument that General Pediatrics boards is very heavy on basic science? Really?

I'm not trying to be nasty, but what are most dermatologists actually doing? I know two that run very successful laser hair removal clinics/medspas + another whose clinic is purely liposuction. These are not FMs, but dermatologists.

More interesting is...let's say Derm is incredibly intensive and calls for brilliance. Has it always been so competitive? Say 30, 40, 50 years ago? I'm genuinely asking because I haven't a clue.