why is dentistry "more popular"?

[emericana]

Not trying to be a troll... I am currently applying to Pod schools (no dental or med schools) because I want to be a pod. Great experiences shadowing and am excited to get to do surgery one day if I can get in (keeping fingers crossed!).

But.... it is much more competitive to get into dental school than pod school.

I am curious as to why this is?

Is it because podiatry is much less known than dentistry? (I personally did not hear of podiatry until two years after I graduated undergrad).

Or is it because people think that feet are stinky/gross? (I personally would much much rather look at peoples feet all day than stare into their mouths... so much that while I did consider MD/DO I never even considered DMD).

From what I gather the pay is similar if not a little better for pods... so it cant be money?


Anyone?

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[dyk343]

Not trying to be a troll... I am currently applying to Pod schools (no dental or med schools) because I want to be a pod. Great experiences shadowing and am excited to get to do surgery one day if I can get in (keeping fingers crossed!).

But.... it is much more competitive to get into dental school than pod school.

I am curious as to why this is?

Is it because podiatry is much less known than dentistry? (I personally did not hear of podiatry until two years after I graduated undergrad).

Or is it because people think that feet are stinky/gross? (I personally would much much rather look at peoples feet all day than stare into their mouths... so much that while I did consider MD/DO I never even considered DMD).

From what I gather the pay is similar if not a little better for pods... so it cant be money?


Anyone?

I think you pretty much hit the main points...

1) not as popular/smaller profession. There are lots of dental schools.
2) feet gross LOTS of people out (I get asked all the time why I want to work with feet)

3) One thing you didnt mention was that dental school can be much shorter (no residency) assuming you do not specialize and the pay can be similar.

 

[Podman23]

Kids and many adults get their teeth cleaned at checked once a year, sometimes twice.

People don't get routine feet screenings.

 

[hematosis]

Minimum time to become a dentist: 3 years

Minimum time to become a pod: 7 years (with the new 3yr residency in place)

Thats more than double the schooling and you get paid similarly.

Podiatrist do some really complicated surgeries and therefore the schooling and training reflects that.

Podiatrist have more job options than dentists. Most dentist usually go into some kind of private practice and thats pretty much it. Podiatrist typically have more options such as working in major hospitals, ortho groups, multidisciplinary practices and of course private practice. They both, however, can do the whole consult, teach, work with government..etc.

both are great professions.

 

[Creflo]

1. Not as much insurance hassle.
2. Residency not required.

 

[air bud]

Let me break this down for you guys:

For both Podiatry and Dentistry, you don't have to go to medical school. They are both professions in the medical community. Other than that, there is basically no comparison.

Now stop the stupid comparisons between the two. maybe I will start a thread asking if badgers or ferrets make better pets during school. Afterall, they are both members of the weasel family.

 

[dtrack22]

That's an easy one. Ferrets. A badger could literally rip off your face. It would make a terrible pet...unless it's a Wisconsin Badger. Those are pretty harmless.

 

[DocJL]

Minimum time to become a dentist: 3 years

Minimum time to become a pod: 7 years (with the new 3yr residency in place)

Thats more than double the schooling and you get paid similarly.

Podiatrist do some really complicated surgeries and therefore the schooling and training reflects that.

Podiatrist have more job options than dentists. Most dentist usually go into some kind of private practice and thats pretty much it. Podiatrist typically have more options such as working in major hospitals, ortho groups, multidisciplinary practices and of course private practice. They both, however, can do the whole consult, teach, work with government..etc.

both are great professions.

hey guys - just surfing out of boredom (I had shoulder surgery last month and I've had more time off than I have in over a decade of practice).

just discovered this entire forum last week, so much interesting info, I even find it interesting to read on other professions - just thought I'd chime in a bit, since the poster above obviously didn't take the time to click into the dental section to check his info......

Dental is typically an 8 year degree. 4 years undergrad and 4 years dental school. (there is a SINGLE dental school in the US that is 3 years, University of the Pacific, they take NO summer breaks - I believe it is a good school based on having worked with several graduates from there. ALL other dental schools in the US are 4 years.

it is possible to get into dental school with just 2 years of undergrad, but it almost never happens due to competitiveness of applicants, there are even a small handful of programs that combine undergrad with dental school (and even undergrad with med school) I believe UMKC has these programs, but I would imagine competition for admission is fierce. In over a decade of practice I have never met a dentist who did not take at least 8 years to get their DDS/DMD.

After dental school over 80% of graduates go out into general practice. The rest either do a 1 or 2 year residency or training program in general dentistry (General Practice Residency - hospital based, or Advanced Education in General Dentistry - dental school based), or go into one of the 9 specialty residencies offered in Dentistry (oral/maxillofacial surgery, endodontics, pedodontics, orthodontics, periodontics, are the big ones) These residencies range from 2-3 years for most, to 4 years for oral/maxillofacial surgery, 6 years if you do a program where you get an MD concurrent with your surgery program)


We actually have quite a few job options: military, public health, private solo, partnership or group practice, associate, employee of a corporate practice, dental school professor, etc. I have done all of the above with the exception of public health and dental school teacher.

If any of you guys are really interested in anything pertaining to dentistry, I'm happy to share!

 

[doc1107]

Not trying to be a troll... I am currently applying to Pod schools (no dental or med schools) because I want to be a pod. Great experiences shadowing and am excited to get to do surgery one day if I can get in (keeping fingers crossed!).

But.... it is much more competitive to get into dental school than pod school.

I am curious as to why this is?

Is it because podiatry is much less known than dentistry? (I personally did not hear of podiatry until two years after I graduated undergrad).

Or is it because people think that feet are stinky/gross? (I personally would much much rather look at peoples feet all day than stare into their mouths... so much that while I did consider MD/DO I never even considered DMD).

From what I gather the pay is similar if not a little better for pods... so it cant be money?


Anyone?

Actually, pay is better in the Dental field.

Look at it this way, the TOP education in POD ( 3 year residency completion) is comparable to a General Dentist salary. (100-130 thousand) starting out

Now if you specialize in Dentistry: 4-6 years for OMF surgeon which is the most "prestigious" since they can actually get a MD if they do a 6 year residency start out at 300 K. Think about it, 8-10 years of dental studies vs 7 years of pod studies and at about 3 times the salary.

Not to mention, there are many other specialties that are shorter such as periodontist, ortho, prostho that takes 2-3 years and have a starting salary of 200k+

Also, one of the biggest thing i think is the fact that POD has just recently become more uniform in regulating 3 year residency and trying to make our field more equal in the perceptions of dental and meds.

Off the top of my head, I can think of some things that POD still need work on as a field.

- Only military scholarship is with Navy whereas med and dental ar ein all 3 branches.

- if working for the VA or any government job, PODs start out at G13 whereas Dental and Docs start out at G15 pay scale. That's like a 20 K difference!!!!

- PODS in the military do not have own corp and not under medical corp. Dental has own corp. This means PODS get paid less, no clout for negotiations, less raises, and no sign on bonuses.

- There are many PODS who have no residency or only one year and they contribute to the perception that POD is a lesser medical field because these pods can only clip.

These are just some of the ones I can think of, I am sure there are others. I can def. see why someone, if they had a choice would choose Dental over Pod. if could care less about which field to be in.

 

[hematosis]

hey guys - just surfing out of boredom (I had shoulder surgery last month and I've had more time off than I have in over a decade of practice).

just discovered this entire forum last week, so much interesting info, I even find it interesting to read on other professions - just thought I'd chime in a bit, since the poster above obviously didn't take the time to click into the dental section to check his info......

Dental is typically an 8 year degree. 4 years undergrad and 4 years dental school. (there is a SINGLE dental school in the US that is 3 years, University of the Pacific, they take NO summer breaks - I believe it is a good school based on having worked with several graduates from there. ALL other dental schools in the US are 4 years.

it is possible to get into dental school with just 2 years of undergrad, but it almost never happens due to competitiveness of applicants, there are even a small handful of programs that combine undergrad with dental school (and even undergrad with med school) I believe UMKC has these programs, but I would imagine competition for admission is fierce. In over a decade of practice I have never met a dentist who did not take at least 8 years to get their DDS/DMD.

After dental school over 80% of graduates go out into general practice. The rest either do a 1 or 2 year residency or training program in general dentistry (General Practice Residency - hospital based, or Advanced Education in General Dentistry - dental school based), or go into one of the 9 specialty residencies offered in Dentistry (oral/maxillofacial surgery, endodontics, pedodontics, orthodontics, periodontics, are the big ones) These residencies range from 2-3 years for most, to 4 years for oral/maxillofacial surgery, 6 years if you do a program where you get an MD concurrent with your surgery program)


We actually have quite a few job options: military, public health, private solo, partnership or group practice, associate, employee of a corporate practice, dental school professor, etc. I have done all of the above with the exception of public health and dental school teacher.

If any of you guys are really interested in anything pertaining to dentistry, I'm happy to share!

Thanks for the information. I was not counting undergraduate schooling when I came up with those numbers. I assumed that the student had already obtained a bachelors degree.

Minimum time to become a dentist: 3 years

Minimum time to become a pod: 7 years (with the new 3yr residency in place)

hope that helps,

 

[DocJL]

Thanks for the information. I was not counting undergraduate schooling when I came up with those numbers. I assumed that the student had already obtained a bachelors degree.

Minimum time to become a dentist: 3 years

Minimum time to become a pod: 7 years (with the new 3yr residency in place)

hope that helps,

Got it - like I say, these forums are very interesting as one can learn so much about different professions.

I see lots of mentions of 3 year residency being standard/required in your field, so does that mean ALL podiatry programs are 4 years? and do most successful applicants have a 4 year undergrad degree?

just curious, I cited UOP dental as 3 years, but that is the ONLY 3 year program in the country, so that means 80 students out of roughly 4900 starting dental school every year in this country will only have to go to dental school for 3 years. I doubt they will stay 3 years though, I have heard lots of discussion in the dental community about adding an extra year to ALL dental programs, as the technology, treatment options, and scope of practice continue to grow.

 

[hematosis]

That is correct. Podiatry school has always been a 4 year program. Similar to the osteopathic and allopathic school, the bachelor degree is not required but it is pretty unlikely to gain admission without a bachelor degree. All of the schools require the MCAT exam (DAT's are no longer accepted by NYCPM). There are 9 schools and I believe 5 of the nine are integrated with either a MD or a DO program and the podiatry students take most of their didactic courses together.
In the past there were some difference in the residency requirements but they have recently changed all residency to 3 years. hope that clarifies a few things

 

[air bud]

That is correct. Podiatry school has always been a 4 year program. Similar to the osteopathic and allopathic school, the bachelor degree is not required but it is pretty unlikely to gain admission without a bachelor degree. All of the schools require the MCAT exam (DAT's are no longer accepted by NYCPM). There are 9 schools and I believe 5 of the nine are integrated with either a MD or a DO program and the podiatry students take most of their didactic courses together.
In the past there were some difference in the residency requirements but they have recently changed all residency to 3 years. hope that clarifies a few things

you have a number of things wrong here. I dont have time, but I am sure my friend dtrack will correct you. Once he gets done watching Swingers that is.

 

[Podman23]

you have a number of things wrong here. I dont have time, but I am sure my friend dtrack will correct you. Once he gets done watching Swingers that is.

God I wish i was as smart as you AirBuddy

 

[FC Omar]

That is correct. Podiatry school has always been a 4 year program. Similar to the osteopathic and allopathic school, the bachelor degree is not required but it is pretty unlikely to gain admission without a bachelor degree. All of the schools require the MCAT exam (DAT's are no longer accepted by NYCPM). There are 9 schools and I believe 5 of the nine are integrated with either a MD or a DO program and the podiatry students take most of their didactic courses together.
In the past there were some difference in the residency requirements but they have recently changed all residency to 3 years. hope that clarifies a few things

atleast for this this cycle, they were accepted (DAT scores). how do i know you ask? because i only submitted DAT scores to both mycpm and temple. and i just now got home from my interviews.

 

[yappy]

Lets cut to the chase, we all know dentists do very well. How much does the average 5 year into practice pod make?

 

[Forthegood]

Money Money Money MONAYYYYY!!!

 

[doc1107]

A very high percentage of dental students will NOT get these residency positions and therefore will be making comparable starting salaries to starting pods. Eventually those starting pods, if they are successful, will make a great living. So yes, a handful of dental students will make fantastic livings compared to pods.

Also, dental school is ridiculously more expensive then podiatry school. I think the highest pod tuition is temples at over 30K per year I believe. I've seen dental school tuitions into the 50-60k range per year...thats absurd considering that the majority of these students will only be general dentists.

Both professions have their pros and cons but its not as cut and dry as you make it to seem.

Yes, only a handful of students get into residency and specialize in dental school. But I think you are thinking about the harder ones such as oral surgery and orthodontist.

Another thing you have to consider is the availability of jobs and the fact that you will NEVER see a dental job offering below 100 grand. But I have seen plenty of POD jobs offering below 100 grand.

And for the workaholics out there, dentistry has a lot more opportunities!

Here is an example: I have a cousin, we are the same age. I have been a POd for 3 years, he has been a dentist for 2. We are both at the age where we are eager to earn as much as possible and do as much as possible. He works as an associate 40 hours a week full time. Then he does the night shift (8-midnight) 3 times a week and saturday (10am-3pm) at a emergency clinic that offers dental.

He is getting around 120,000 at the full time job, with bonuses. so around 150 k last year. From his part time job, he is getting paid grave yard shift and gets about 40K a year! Most of the time, he said he just sit in his office, finish up paperwork from his regular full time job, nap and unwind since it is pretty quite.

So in total, he makes around 200k.

I am looking to do the same thing but honestly, there is no such place for pods! Most regular pod office will take emergency calls and if it is a true emergency like broken bone, etc, the emergency ortho can handle it.

And those after hour part time dental jobs are all over the place and have high roll over since most dentist stay on for 2-3 year at the start of their career to pay off debt and learn.

 

[hematosis]

Here is the 2007 MGMA statistical report for salaries. see for yourself

http://storefiles.mgma.com/7032 sample.pdf


Here is the podiatrist I shadowed a few years ago, who works for the state and makes close to 300k

http://www.sacbee.com/statepay/sala...me=Medawar&totalpay=269670.46&agency=UC+DAVIS

you can easily look up state employed podiatrist and see their salaries. I would definitely recommend these trusted approaches (MGMA, State websites, etc) as opposed to salary.com, ampa, or what your best friends mothers daughters husband...

I definitely don't think you should pick one profession over the other because of salary. They are not even remotely the same. I picked podiatry because I come from an athletic background and my parents are both F&A surgeons and i grew up watching this tuff. One is an orthopedic surgeon who does F&A and the other is a podiatrist. My parents generate millions of dollars and love what they do. I picked this field over osteopathic medicine and hope to join their practice. I really hope you guys don't pick careers simply based on salary. There is so much more to it.

 

[Podman23]

Here is the 2007 MGMA statistical report for salaries. see for yourself

http://storefiles.mgma.com/7032 sample.pdf


Here is the podiatrist I shadowed a few years ago, who works for the state and makes close to 300k

http://www.sacbee.com/statepay/sala...me=Medawar&totalpay=269670.46&agency=UC+DAVIS

you can easily look up state employed podiatrist and see their salaries. I would definitely recommend these trusted approaches (MGMA, State websites, etc) as opposed to salary.com, ampa, or what your best friends mothers daughters husband...

I definitely don't think you should pick one profession over the other because of salary. They are not even remotely the same. I picked podiatry because I come from an athletic background and my parents are both surgeons. One is an orthopedic surgeon who does F&A and the other is a podiatrist. My parents generate millions of dollars and love what they do. I picked this field over osteopathic medicine and hope to join their practice. I really hope you guys don't pick careers simply based on salary. There is so much more to it.

as a pod student those numbers sound amazing, but they also are inflated due to a small sample size of obviously extremely successful pods

 

[Podfather]

Yes, only a handful of students get into residency and specialize in dental school. But I think you are thinking about the harder ones such as oral surgery and orthodontist.

Another thing you have to consider is the availability of jobs and the fact that you will NEVER see a dental job offering below 100 grand. But I have seen plenty of POD jobs offering below 100 grand.

And for the workaholics out there, dentistry has a lot more opportunities!

Here is an example: I have a cousin, we are the same age. I have been a POd for 3 years, he has been a dentist for 2. We are both at the age where we are eager to earn as much as possible and do as much as possible. He works as an associate 40 hours a week full time. Then he does the night shift (8-midnight) 3 times a week and saturday (10am-3pm) at a emergency clinic that offers dental.

He is getting around 120,000 at the full time job, with bonuses. so around 150 k last year. From his part time job, he is getting paid grave yard shift and gets about 40K a year! Most of the time, he said he just sit in his office, finish up paperwork from his regular full time job, nap and unwind since it is pretty quite.

So in total, he makes around 200k.

I am looking to do the same thing but honestly, there is no such place for pods! Most regular pod office will take emergency calls and if it is a true emergency like broken bone, etc, the emergency ortho can handle it.

And those after hour part time dental jobs are all over the place and have high roll over since most dentist stay on for 2-3 year at the start of their career to pay off debt and learn.

To be honest I find these kind of threads confusing. It comes down to a simple question: Do you want to be a dentist or a podiatrist? I will admit that your future income is an important thing to research prior to signing on to any field but if it is the chief reason for selecting something then you will probably end up disappointed (unless you get lucky and fall in love with the chosen field).

If you (after research and shadowing) feel podiatry fits you then go for it. If you work hard you will succeed financially and have the benefit of being happy. If it's dentistry the same. They are truly apples and oranges. We were just having this discussion in the doctors lounge and many MDs are telling their children to become CRNAs for the money and less responsibility than an anesthesiologist. Again money driven and perhaps their child would be an awesome FP for some community and make less but be happy. I know wealthy dentists and DPMs and some that are struggling.

I was accepted to MD,DO,and DPM school and chose podiatry. It has been good to me but we all have days where we question our choices especially when scope or other issues surface. I had a relative who was a dentist who begged me to go to dental school but I knew it wasn't for me (with the exception of OMF surgery and knew the odds of scoring a residency were small) so I chose podiatry.

If it's money you seek you are much better off in a non-medical job if you are bright and educated in business, finance, banking,investment, IT development etc.

 

[ItsGavinC]

To be honest I find these kind of threads confusing. It comes down to a simple question: Do you want to be a dentist or a podiatrist? I will admit that your future income is an important thing to research prior to signing on to any field but if it is the chief reason for selecting something then you will probably end up disappointed (unless you get lucky and fall in love with the chosen field).

Bingo. Great advice. Dentistry and podiatry are completely different animals. People should follow their passions and enjoy life. Money comes and money goes, and the old saying is true: more money, more problems.

 

[air bud]

Bingo. Great advice. Dentistry and podiatry are completely different animals. People should follow their passions and enjoy life. Money comes and money goes, and the old saying is true: more money, more problems.

To better reach these kids you may want to quote a newer poet laureate "Mo' Money, Mo' Problems."

 

[Path or bust]

"Mo' Money, Mo' Problems."