Why Ireland?

[Deav]

Why are people with such exellent credentials choosing to go to Ireland, why not just go to a medical school in USA or Canada? If you have a GPA over 3.7 and research, etc. etc. and still aren't guaranteed a spot, what's the point? Also, why waste so much money on tuition and not even be guaranteed a residency when you're done?

I would just like to know what circumstances caused people to go to a university that doesnt even hone your skills to ace the usmle, why not just go to the Carribean.

If you want to see the culture of the Irish, just take a 2 week vacation.

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[Mike MacKinnon]

Hey Deav

First off, excellent questions and good to get this out to others considering the option.

1) I dont have a 3.7 GPA, mine is 3.1 from BSN and my GPA for pre reqs over this year (2 full time CC classes) is 4.0. That will only equate to a 3.2-3.3 end of day.

2) Sure i do alot of research and published. Its all well and good but USA MD schools could care less. DO schools love it but are still very competitive with GPA and mine is on the bottom edge of competitive for DO and not competitive for MD school.

3) The money and tuition to do the 5 year Trinity program is actually less than the 4 year DO school here by 7 grand USA. The cost of living for me is offset by my wife who is also an RN. She will do a travel contract to wherever i go and we will live for free. The only hit we will really take will be increased cost of living in Ireland and the decrease in wages my wife will make. (we both make about 70K american each and the average wage there will be 40K american).

4) Personally i dont want to goto the carribean. I think they are a good choice for some people but not for me. Alot of that has to do with my experience with the stigma they get in hospital and amongst other physicians. This is a stigma that dosent exist with Irish and UK grads.

5) Getting a US residency is as much asn issue for carribean grads. Its all about USMLE scores. Also my wife cant work there. However, if i didnt get a residency in the USA i have another options in europe, carribean grads have a harder time in that situation as noone would want to stay and work in the carribean. Its a ****hole.

6) The USMLE is an exam just like the MCAT. regardless of where you goto school you will either prepare enough to do well... or you wont. Its a factor or work ethic and little else. Do USA students have an edge? Yes definitly.

Lastly, I didnt say i wasent applying to USA DO schools. In fact there are a couple where i have even taught for and have an excellent relationship with. However, that is 2 years away. I can potentially get into a 5 year program and be done a year earlier. For me, at 31 years old, its about getting on with my life. This would be my second profession.

I see it as an option. Costs me all of 75 bucks to apply and if i dont get in thats all i lose. If i do get in then I have a choice to make. Easy as that.

 

[eastofnorth]

Why are people with such exellent credentials choosing to go to Ireland, why not just go to a medical school in USA or Canada? If you have a GPA over 3.7 and research, etc. etc. and still aren't guaranteed a spot, what's the point? Also, why waste so much money on tuition and not even be guaranteed a residency when you're done?

I would just like to know what circumstances caused people to go to a university that doesnt even hone your skills to ace the usmle, why not just go to the Carribean.

If you want to see the culture of the Irish, just take a 2 week vacation.

Some of us may feel more at home in a European culture/environment, which will help us succeed more as a student. You should choose a school which enables you to reach your full potential -- not a name brand that you can use as a crutch.

Rather then give you my reasons for considering Irish/UK schools, I'll explain what my timeframe is, and you can see how schooling fits into it.

YEAR -1
Winter 2004 to Fall 2005
Right now, I left graduate school and I'm working a fulltime job at a pharmaceutical company. I've spent the year seriously considering my career options, studying the field of public health and medicinal research in even more depth, meeting with many professionals (both clinical and research), volunteering even more at hospitals (I was an EMT growing up but it was no longer), compiling a hefty binder of fellowship, residency, and medical school information. I'm not even joking. I don't make decisions lightly, especially ones that cost a lot of money and a lot of time.

YEAR 0
Winter 2005 to Fall 2006
I am starting to teach myself organic chemistry. I'm confident in my biology and mathematics. I plan to sit for the MCATs in April 2006 based on my own studied material. If I do well, I will be preparing applications to at least 4 US-based medical schools including: University of Rochester, University of Pittsburgh, University of Pennsylvania, and Case Western. The rest of the schools in Philadelphia will be my "safety" schools. The caveat is that I will likely need to take organic chemistry and physics during this glide year. So, I will need to move to Philadelphia and get a new job that allows me to take these two courses.

I have started applications to UK and Irish schools: so far, Trinity, UCC, and Glasgow (UCAS). If I do apply through the Atlantic Bridge program, that would add UCD and RCSI to my list. So far, though, I strongly prefer Trinity and UCC. I fulfill all the prerequisites for Trinity as I currently stand (they don't require MCATs) and would matriculate in Fall of 2006 if accepted at any of the schools in Ireland/UK -- a full year before any American School.



To me, it's all about transition. My transition into a UK/Irish school would be much smoother than a US school -- by virtue of timing and background.

Will going to a UK/Irish school put me at a disadvantage in getting residencies? Actually, I don't think so. For me. I'm going to medical school heading towards a very specific training in reproductive medicine. OB/GYN residencies haven't been full for years. I fully expect that I can form the contacts I need to achieve the residency I want when it is time to do so.

And preparing for USMLE? The only thing I'm worried about is the paperwork. You know, signing your name right. When I need to learn things, I utilize the resources of the classroom, but mostly I teach myself. Knowing that, I can be a bit more flexible in terms of exams like the MCATs and the USMLEs. But, on the other hand, I look very critically at school curriculums in my decision-making process.

In conclusion, I am considering Irish/UK schools very seriously. I believe there is a very strong chance I will do very well there, and I feel the exposure to another healthcare system and another culture will add a lot to my life as a person and a future physician as well.

Besides, when it comes to the end of the 5 years, who is to say I'd want to leave? Some of us have friends outside of the US, too.

 

[leorl]

I came over to Ireland for my JYA during undergrad, and loved it. Loved the people, saw my medic friends able to have a lot of fun but be serious about study, and one of the main attractions - being able to commit enough time to my sport to be able to participate at a high standard. Then I compared it to medic friends in the US who seemed unhappy, thinking about only medicine 24/7, living for four years+ under a lot of stress and being treated badly by doctors who thought they needed to perpetuate how they themselves were treated when they were students. And also saw the type of people the premed students around me were - gunners in the making. People doing medicine in the US do not comprise a "normal" population, I wouldn't call some of them well-adjusted people. I even saw that when I was volunteering in the hospitals. I was also really depressed coming back home my senior year and realized that as much as I love the US, there's a lot more out there that I want to see.

So, I figured the only two things to do to keep me happy were a) not do medicine and switch to a field where people aren't as negative/bitter/cynical or b) live life outside the US for awhile and go exploring. Chose the latter option and have enjoyed nearly every minute of it. And have realized that people thinking that the US produces good doctors by a system of continuous hardship are dead wrong - medicine doesn't have to be that way at all. There's not a bad thing I can say about my class here - we've all realized the best way to learn is cooperation, and people go out of their way to help.

Ireland's not the perfect country, and there are a lot of things to get around or gripe about, but for me it was the perfect choice. So yeah, I had the GPA over 3.7, had good MCATs and a lot of research, but didn't apply to US schools at all. I'm happy and whoever got my potential US spot is happy...I hope.

 

[leorl]

No, Ireland doesn't cater to the USMLE and we shouldn't expect it to. But who cares? The information is the same, and as long as you do the work you need in order to do well on the USMLE, it's fine. You don't need a place to hand-hold you to make you study - if you don't, your big loss. And most people here have a good enough work ethic to be successful on the USMLE. You don't see that many Carib students ace-ing the USMLE. You actually don't see that many US students ace-ing it either.

Ok, so not guaranteed residency... maybe, you do put yourself at a disadvantage anyway, being an FMG. But my reasons for coming overweighed my need for absolute job security. If job security is high on your list of priorities, maybe and overseas school isn't right for you. I'll be a doctor. Ideally in the US for awhile, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get a residency spot. 100% sure? no...more like 90% sure. But if not, I'll be a doctor some place else, and I wouldn't really mind.

You can't get a feel for the culture in 2 weeks. Maybe you could for a tourist visiting the US because the US is that open/superficial. I think european mindset is a little bit more intricate than ours, but I'm not sure why that is. And you can't get it by a vacation, you have to live in it for awhile.

 

[eastofnorth]

It's good to hear all that from you, Leorl. I have/had many of the same suspicions and experiences, and you've increased my confidence and interest in going to school abroad.

I came over to Ireland for my JYA during undergrad, and loved it. Loved the people, saw my medic friends able to have a lot of fun but be serious about study, and one of the main attractions - being able to commit enough time to my sport to be able to participate at a high standard. Then I compared it to medic friends in the US who seemed unhappy, thinking about only medicine 24/7, living for four years+ under a lot of stress and being treated badly by doctors who thought they needed to perpetuate how they themselves were treated when they were students. And also saw the type of people the premed students around me were - gunners in the making. People doing medicine in the US do not comprise a "normal" population, I wouldn't call some of them well-adjusted people. I even saw that when I was volunteering in the hospitals. I was also really depressed coming back home my senior year and realized that as much as I love the US, there's a lot more out there that I want to see.

So, I figured the only two things to do to keep me happy were a) not do medicine and switch to a field where people aren't as negative/bitter/cynical or b) live life outside the US for awhile and go exploring. Chose the latter option and have enjoyed nearly every minute of it. And have realized that people thinking that the US produces good doctors by a system of continuous hardship are dead wrong - medicine doesn't have to be that way at all. There's not a bad thing I can say about my class here - we've all realized the best way to learn is cooperation, and people go out of their way to help.

Ireland's not the perfect country, and there are a lot of things to get around or gripe about, but for me it was the perfect choice. So yeah, I had the GPA over 3.7, had good MCATs and a lot of research, but didn't apply to US schools at all. I'm happy and whoever got my potential US spot is happy...I hope.

 

[Sage880]

I lived over here before. Also, I didn't take any pre-med so didn't have the pre-req's needed for north American schools. I just read a couple texts for the MCAT.

That being said, my MCAT scores were high and after one year finished here I'm applying to a school back home cause a doctor I used to work for is really pushing me too. As it stands now, I can't see how I'd ever be happy in a north american school. I'm competitive enough and being around more type A people would just make me worse I think.

Working in the hospitals back home is fine but I hate working with med students there. They bring out the worst in me I think.

So, I'm about 80% sure that I'd stay in Ireland if I do get accepted for next year back home. Last year was great and I feel I learned a lot. I really think the higher quality of life (for me anyway) over here outweighs any benefit of returning to Canada. I have until about March to decide so maybe I'll change my mind!