Why go to North America for 8 years vs 4 1/2 for MBBS?

[sga430]

also please dont listen to your folks. do what u think is best. they may want u to marry some desi and avoid procreation with goras at all costs. this med school. not a dating service. if this is the case get an arranged marriage and go do med school in the states.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[CaliAtenza]

consider taking usmles and also danger of not matching also danger of not getting a speciality of ur choice. GO TO THE US!!! SCREW THE PROMISE OF A 5 YEAR MCDEGREE!! DO IT PROPERLY!!

right now i am in poland living in a med school dorm. if u wanna save time go to poland in 6 years. u will have more fun here and also it is safer. there r tons of NRIs. however u may not be able to get a cali letter.

go to us for 4 years. if u dont get in. go to poland or carribean. well worth the risk. who knows how competive it will get in us for imgs. also outside psych, fp and IM it is even tougher. also if u want cards or gastro forget about it the moment u go to india.

be smart. go to the usa. screw the promise of saving 2 years.

wow u are bitter...how about instead of putting india down as a whole (including us NRI's who are already in india adn doing well), try to help in a sensible way. BTW, it also helps if ur parent/parents are connected as well . Im in india right now...my dad said not to worry, just told me that i should try to score as high as possible on the USMLE's and he will take care of the rest.

 

[cool_vkb]

my dad said not to worry, just told me that i should try to score as high as possible on the USMLE's and he will take care of the rest.

dont worry brother, pappa will take care of all. This is a typical indian mentality. Dont bank on your dad brother. God forbids your is not capable of helping you or he retires or he loses his position,etc and he says "Sorry son! now you are on your own", then what are you gonna do?

Make your dreams & goals on your hardwork & achievment. not on your papa's hardwork. If you say, iam gonna score high USMLE score and compete and get good residency, its so encouraging. But dude dont say, "my pappa said he will take care". You didnt saw tomorrow and neither did i. So dont be so sure abt future.

And even if your PAPPA helps you, I assure you may be your dad can get you in some primary care residency. but really dont expect a dermatology or orthopedic residency waitin for you unless you pappa is some secretary or president of hospital :

 

[cool_vkb]

.

 

[CaliAtenza]

dont worry brother, pappa will take care of all. This is a typical indian mentality. Dont bank on your dad brother. God forbids your is not capable of helping you or he retires or he loses his position,etc and he says "Sorry son! now you are on your own", then what are you gonna do?

Make your dreams & goals on your hardwork & achievment. not on your papa's hardwork. If you say, iam gonna score high USMLE score and compete and get good residency, its so encouraging. But dude dont say, "my pappa said he will take care". You didnt saw tomorrow and neither did i. So dont be so sure abt future.

And even if your PAPPA helps you, I assure you may be your dad can get you in some primary care residency. but really dont expect a dermatology or orthopedic residency waitin for you unless you pappa is some secretary or president of hospital :

ok maybe i worded it wrong..i wasnt saying i was just going to rely on him for everything and ride his coattails to success. I am going to score high and i am going to work hard to get a competetive residency based on my own merit and work. He's not retiring yet...he is building a new office now for god sakes, lol. Anyways, he's always helped me out and he's offering to help me again, why not take it? Besides you dont know my dad...i swear he knows like everyone there is to know, even without him sometimes realizing that he knows the person (case in point, the registrar of my university was his junior..but my dad didnt know that when he went to see him, but the registrar knew him very well from his college days). Besides, gotta use those connections...someone posted a situation of a girl having crappy board scores and still scoring a radiology residency..cause of milking connections. So it can be done...

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

wow u are bitter...how about instead of putting india down as a whole (including us NRI's who are already in india adn doing well), try to help in a sensible way. BTW, it also helps if ur parent/parents are connected as well . Im in india right now...my dad said not to worry, just told me that i should try to score as high as possible on the USMLE's and he will take care of the rest.

what a spoiled brat...you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[cool_vkb]

Besides you dont know my dad...i swear he knows like everyone there is to know, even without him sometimes realizing that he knows the person (case in point, the registrar of my university was his junior..but my dad didnt know that when he went to see him, but the registrar knew him very well from his college days).

thats awesome. looks like your Dad is a pretty famous guy in cali

 

[cool_vkb]

He's not retiring yet...he is building a new office now for god sakes, lol. Anyways, he's always helped me out and he's offering to help me again, why not take it?

Well when i say "What if he retires". It doesnt always mean "retires from job", it can also be god forbids to "retiring from life/die". Before Tsumani, there were Palaces on beach, now there are rubbles. Life comes at you pretty fast boy! Dont make your dreams on your dad's repuation.God forbid something happens and he is not there. What are you gonna do? Open Dunkin Donuts in his new office.

I dont get any pleasure in criticizing you or supporting you. I just want to change your mentality & outlook. You are studying Medicine and study it own your own. Not on your dad's reputation!

This will be my last post on this topic. Forgive me if i have hurt your feelings. i just wanted you to realize that you should be able to stand up when you are alone and not boast about your MOMMA & PAPPA like a 6yr old school Kid

 

[CaliAtenza]

Well when i say "What if he retires". It doesnt always mean "retires from job", it can also be god forbids to "retiring from life/die". Before Tsumani, there were Palaces on beach, now there are rubbles. Life comes at you pretty fast boy! Dont make your dreams on your dad's repuation.God forbid something happens and he is not there. What are you gonna do? Open Dunkin Donuts in his new office.

I dont get any pleasure in criticizing you or supporting you. I just want to change your mentality & outlook. You are studying Medicine and study it own your own. Not on your dad's reputation!

This will be my last post on this topic. Forgive me if i have hurt your feelings. i just wanted you to realize that you should be able to stand up when you are alone and not boast about your MOMMA & PAPPA like a 6yr old school Kid

lol not hurt feelings...just want to clarify what i said, cause people go off on tangents.

 

[sga430]

lol not hurt feelings...just want to clarify what i said, cause people go off on tangents.

noticed u r from bakersfield. they have carribean students doing electives there. u could go to the carribean and do ur last 2 years at home.

however going to the us 4 med school is the best way to stay in cali for residency or to have a better option when appling to residency. stay in the usa. check out my other posts.

 

[sga430]

are you asking a question or making a statement?

let me break it down:
USA
4 years undergrad (unless you do an accelerated program, then it can be 2-3)
4 years med school
3 years (minimum) up to 5 years of residency (it depends on your specialty and then if you decide to do a fellowship, its 1-3 years more)

INDIA:
5.5 years of Medschool/Internship
Arrive to USA and prepare for boards (unless you took care of that in India, for which you still need to take time off to study) - 1-2 years
Search for Residency - 1 year
Do residency (again 3-6 years range) then possibly fellowship (1-2 3 years)

So really, there's no big difference in "years". But there is a difference in the kind of residency you can get as an FMG. Figure it out for yourself.

i agree with the above. also u may have to do externships, etc in the usa unless u wanna be a slave at an IMG sweatshop in a speciality u dont like.

 

[CaliAtenza]

noticed u r from bakersfield. they have carribean students doing electives there. u could go to the carribean and do ur last 2 years at home.

however going to the us 4 med school is the best way to stay in cali for residency or to have a better option when appling to residency. stay in the usa. check out my other posts.

dude im already in india...ive finished a year already, now im in second year.

 

[dobal]

If you are looking for Summer Destinations---Yellowstone National Park and Mt. Rushmore National Memorial Park then go to www.tours4fun.com. this site is offering $20.00 Discount per Person! if you book by 04/30/07! tour packages.

 

[sga430]

dude im already in india...ive finished a year already, now im in second year.

not sure if it is worth the hassle but after I and II mbbs u can transfer into a 3rd year in maybe east europe and the carribean

 

[CaliAtenza]

not sure if it is worth the hassle but after I and II mbbs u can transfer into a 3rd year in maybe east europe and the carribean

i wouldnt go to either place...im already settled in india and almost all my family is back in india...besides Ramaiah has a pretty good rep in the states (for some reason, lol) and a lot of alum have gotten some pretty good residencies.

 

[CaliAtenza]

u know what would be interesting...if someone could get a list of where people have matched (that have graduated from indian medical schools) in the US. I do know people at KIMS in bang, so i could find out from there as well as ramaiah itself. If someone is keeping records, then lets see if everyone really is getting stuck into FP or IM in a po-dunk town or are there better matches. I mean, seriously i wouldnt mind doing IM in maybe a less than stellar program and trying for fellowships afterward.

 

[Seep101]

wow... interesting.. i haven't been back in awhile but goodness this is making it more confusing for me...

i'm in ib and if i get the diploma... some ucs guarantee me that i will enter as a sophomore (if i get accepted) and so this way it will take me 3 + 4 = 7 years in the u.s.? and so this way won't it take longer coming from India because i've heard that it takes a year to take the test when you come back and a year to find a residency after? and here in the u.s. the test is included in the 4 years am i right?

 

[DrGarfield]

This place is hilarious!

There was some ad on tv in India- a 4 yr old gal sayin "My Daddy Strongest!"
-anyone seen it?

 

[sooku]

There are 3 reasons you might consider going to India for MBBS: (1) to save time (2) to save money (3) because you're Indian anyway. There is one major drawback to India and all foreign medical schools: you'll be a second class citizen when it comes to residency, and you'll have about a 70% chance of passiing USMLE Step 1 vs. 96% for US and Canadian students. If you can get into one of the top ten Indian medical schools though, you'll get a first-class medical education. You will be competing with the second layer of genius kids (in the US you run into the top layer) because in India the top layer goes into engineering. So you'll get better grades and higher self-esteem. However, on the USMLE you will compete with the geniuses in USA again.

I think that if you have the grades and the money to get a US or Canadian medical education, you'd be stupid to go abroad just to save time. Because if you're a 24 yr old MD and the norm is 27 or 28, will patients trust you?. But if KNOW you can be a good doctor and don't have the grades or are borrowing every penny, go after your passion.

Medical education on Manipal, for example, is better than any Caribeean school and most US schools. They have one of the world's largest anatomical museums and a 53-year old history and their faculty has been doing solid research for 30 years. Saba boasts about a $200,000 "hyperbaric research facility" which is little more than a big pressurized tank. Manipal is working on laser spectroscopy and MRI.

In the Caribbean you may have crime and isolation but you'll have the beautiful blue ocean.. in India depending on the school everything will be challenging. But you can call USA on your cell phone for like 5 cents a minute compared to 50 sents a minute from an Island. Most of all, India is a whole huge country while the Caribbean islands are puny.

 

[sooku]

This is for sga - there are over 3,000 doctors practicing in USA who originally graduated from Manipal. I believe internships can be had easily but remember that you will be trated as a second class citizen by hospitals who are 100 time more ignorant and suspicious that the people on this board. If you want family medicine or emergency medicine that pay $150K on the average, you can make it. But don't even DREAM or being a $380K radiologist or a multi-million-dollar plastic surgeon. It doesn't matter if you top the USMLE, you're still from India! That's real life baby ...

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

There are 3 reasons you might consider going to India for MBBS: (1) to save time (2) to save money (3) because you're Indian anyway. There is one major drawback to India and all foreign medical schools: you'll be a second class citizen when it comes to residency, and you'll have about a 70% chance of passiing USMLE Step 1 vs. 96% for US and Canadian students. If you can get into one of the top ten Indian medical schools though, you'll get a first-class medical education. You will be competing with the second layer of genius kids (in the US you run into the top layer) because in India the top layer goes into engineering. So you'll get better grades and higher self-esteem. However, on the USMLE you will compete with the geniuses in USA again.

I think that if you have the grades and the money to get a US or Canadian medical education, you'd be stupid to go abroad just to save time. Because if you're a 24 yr old MD and the norm is 27 or 28, will patients trust you?. But if KNOW you can be a good doctor and don't have the grades or are borrowing every penny, go after your passion.

Medical education on Manipal, for example, is better than any Caribeean school and most US schools. They have one of the world's largest anatomical museums and a 53-year old history and their faculty has been doing solid research for 30 years. Saba boasts about a $200,000 "hyperbaric research facility" which is little more than a big pressurized tank. Manipal is working on laser spectroscopy and MRI.

In the Caribbean you may have crime and isolation but you'll have the beautiful blue ocean.. in India depending on the school everything will be challenging. But you can call USA on your cell phone for like 5 cents a minute compared to 50 sents a minute from an Island. Most of all, India is a whole huge country while the Caribbean islands are puny.

India's cream is equally divided in engineering and medicine.

THere are many more benifits of going to caribbean if you are a US citizen. BTW...if you do very well on your boards (like me) you can match a top university program for a residency (like I just did this month)!

I had 1 girl from Manipal who interviewed at a place I did...she told me 6 others from her class participated for the match this year. In my class (caribbean school) ....more than 500 graduates matched this year. (More than 6000 practicing graudates in the USA from Ross university)

I think it is a good idea to see residency placements from that school...if you plan on practicing in the USA.

 

[sooku]

I had 1 girl from Manipal who interviewed at a place I did...she told me 6 others from her class participated for the match this year. In my class (caribbean school) ....more than 500 graduates matched this year.

What school did you go to?

You have an Indian name so I am curious whether you considered Indian schools at all. And if not, what was the reason because I would think you were aware of the Indian option and were not biased/suspicious of India.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

I had 1 girl from Manipal who interviewed at a place I did...she told me 6 others from her class participated for the match this year. In my class (caribbean school) ....more than 500 graduates matched this year.

What school did you go to?

You have an Indian name so I am curious whether you considered Indian schools at all. And if not, what was the reason because I would think you were aware of the Indian option and were not biased/suspicious of India.

I actually visited Manipal in the late 90s.....I decided against it and went to Ross University.

 

[CaliAtenza]

I actually visited Manipal in the late 90s.....I decided against it and went to Ross University.

in the late 90's Manipal wasnt that great...its only recently its come up...

 

[DO_2007]

I actually visited Manipal in the late 90s.....I decided against it and went to Ross University.

You still an FMG, and you will be an FMG for the rest of your life

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

You still an FMG, and you will be an FMG for the rest of your life

Gimme 2-3 more years you DO.....I will prove myself once I get that highly coveted fellowship!

 

[DO_2007]

Gimme 2-3 more years you DO.....I will prove myself once I get that highly coveted fellowship!

Sure, just do not forget to come back here, in 3 years, or may be 4 or 5 years.

3 Years IM + 1 year as a chief resident + 1 year of kissing a$$e$ = geriatric fellowship.

 

[Northerner]

Medical education on Manipal, for example, is better than any Caribeean school and most US schools.

Pretty lofty claim there pal....

 

[maverick_pkg]

Hey pretty interesting thread...

to give u another perspective...am Indian, did med school from Manipal, graduated 2006, got gen surg residency at a good university and starting this July. 2 other batchmates of mine did as well. 1 got radiodiagnosis. 7-8 got IM and 4-5 Peds, a good mix.

but if u have an option, would advise u to do med school in US...its a relatively easy road. U need very high scores/US letters etc coming from India, and still ortho and derm are pretty much outta reach unless u wanna put in years in research.

U dont save time in India, however u do save some money i guess. Time: 5.5 years of MBBS and internship, mostly u would need some time for USMLE steps. also, for good residencies you need to be ECFMG certified by Sept 1.

so it becomes 5.5 years (ends around Feb/March) + 1.5 years till July 1 of following year when u start residency = 7 years

If the student is not very bright, an extra year for USMLEs = 7+1= 8 years. Also for competitive residencies, add 2 years of research = 7+2= 9 years

so its almost the same. US med schools wud definitely be an easier road. However, if money is a crunch, Indian med schools would more than adequately prepare u, so no worries!

 

[maverick_pkg]

This is for sga - there are over 3,000 doctors practicing in USA who originally graduated from Manipal. I believe internships can be had easily but remember that you will be trated as a second class citizen by hospitals who are 100 time more ignorant and suspicious that the people on this board. If you want family medicine or emergency medicine that pay $150K on the average, you can make it. But don't even DREAM or being a $380K radiologist or a multi-million-dollar plastic surgeon. It doesn't matter if you top the USMLE, you're still from India! That's real life baby ...

dude, u r wrong there. 1 batchmate of mine got radiology. 3 got gen surg...lets c if we become plastic surgeons

its not just USMLE - u need to top it. u also need to do US electives, get good LORs and stuff

 

[sga430]

i wouldnt go to either place...im already settled in india and almost all my family is back in india...besides Ramaiah has a pretty good rep in the states (for some reason, lol) and a lot of alum have gotten some pretty good residencies.

i went to ramaiah as well. it does have a better rep than most. yet i think at only one place out of 49 interviews did they know of it. and that is because a resident is from there.

i believe u have overated ur dads connections. i doubt they can trump a us grad. they can get u an interview and bump u up a few spots on the RoL. i had some connections and i did not match at those places. i didnt expect to either. and i made my own connections. medicine is serious business in the us and they will not imperil the reputation of a program and give it away to some dude's son. also ur dad's influence will work at maybe a few programs. why not in effect self-connect oneself at ALL the programs by going to emd school in the US? also it is not possible to do 2 years of IM and switch. even if it was, it is not a good idea. why not just do medicine in the us instead of slaving away in IM for 2 years. IM residency is no joke and not to be taken lightly. i know someone who quit IM. also please, IM is not the none of the above i-dont-know-what-else to do choices. i believe nuclear medicine is a better "none of the above i dont like anything nor can get anything else" choice.

in my 2nd year i was still ignorant about what a disadvantage it is to go to india. also to say u will get high scores on the usmle and then actually do it r 2 seperate things. i hope u do and i do have advice on that. whatever u do, take the NBME practice test. use a methodical system and give attention to both readin and practicing questions. in my 2nd year i had 5% the clue i have now about my mistake. however for me it turned out ok. however for most it may not and i feel u r giving out false advice.

i am not meaning to discourage. aim high. however i do mean to discourage or challenge those who r planning on going to india. i post the truth. 55% of imgs do not match. if u dont get into a us med school u have options. by not matching ur options r "would u like fries with that shake." imgs getting competive specialities r exceptions. one can not base decisions on exceptions. also what guarantee is there that the situation wont get more competetive??

i still dont understand how u think going to india for med school is better than going to the us for med school. going to india for med school is only a good idea if u want to practice in india. otherwise it is not by any standard.

i still stand by the fact i had a great time india. and i am happy at where i matched. yet i would have been happier going to med school in america and even happier at where i would have matched. is it not better to encourage others to maximize their potential rather than to encourage others to repeat our mistakes? i would risk discouraging u if it means for others to avoid our mistakes. going to india is riskier then america as well.

i am 110% u will agree with me on ur match day. good luck. i dont mean to discourage u and i will make up for it by advising u later if u PM when ur going thru the match process. and i will get u an interview where i am at as well since ur a fellow ramaiah alumni.

 

[sga430]

are you asking a question or making a statement?

let me break it down:
USA
4 years undergrad (unless you do an accelerated program, then it can be 2-3)
4 years med school
3 years (minimum) up to 5 years of residency (it depends on your specialty and then if you decide to do a fellowship, its 1-3 years more)

INDIA:
5.5 years of Medschool/Internship
Arrive to USA and prepare for boards (unless you took care of that in India, for which you still need to take time off to study) - 1-2 years
Search for Residency - 1 year
Do residency (again 3-6 years range) then possibly fellowship (1-2 3 years)

So really, there's no big difference in "years". But there is a difference in the kind of residency you can get as an FMG. Figure it out for yourself.

also u may lose time in india due to exam postponements, visa issues, war with pakistan, etc. a friend of mine went to med school in nepal and it shut down. he transferred to india but lost a year or two.

 

[sooku]

Pretty lofty claim there pal....

To explain my claim,
(1) most US schools doesn't include the top 20, say, meaning places like UW, Harvard or UCSF. They are the best in the world. Manipal's original medical college - as distinct from the cush programs they've set up for well-heeled foreigners - provides great training. Over 3000 of their grads are working in a variety of specialties in the US and Canada.

(2) The diversity of patients, pathologies and family circumstances you will see in Manipal (as in most of India) cannot be matched in any other country.

(3) I am not promoting Manipal, they have great facilities for foreigners but when I looked their foreign student college (yes it's separate from the parent college) was not approved in California. I went to a mid-tier US school. But they have just been approved by California. For quality of education I still rank them higher than Caribbean or East European or Chinese schools with the exception of St. Georges and Ross.

Bottom line is that the caste system in US medicine (US seniors vs, FMGs) is not going to go away. A degree from the worst US medical school trumps a degree from the best foreign school. Be careful.