Why does everyone complain about being a doctor on here?

[jennearomo]

I'm getting a little it annoyed. I notice that whenever someone asks a question about anything, everyone says don't go into med school, you won't be happy, ect..
I mean if you're not that happy then maybe get off this forum? And go to school for something else??

What kindave doctor will you be if you're just complaining about it all the time on here?

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[Myuu]

I'm getting a little it annoyed. I notice that whenever someone asks a question about anything, everyone says don't go into med school, you won't be happy, ect..
I mean if you're not that happy then maybe get off this forum? And go to school for something else??

What kindave doctor will you be if you're just complaining about it all the time on here?

A bitter, technologically savvy one, apparently. Try to remember that this is SDN, which is to say "neuroticism central."

 

[lhtran07]

This forum is also for others not pursuing a MD

 

[jennearomo]

This forum is also for others not pursuing a MD

Ohh, I know. I'm talking about the ones that are or have pursued an MD.

 

[ButImLETired]

I'm getting a little it annoyed. I notice that whenever someone asks a question about anything, everyone says don't go into med school, you won't be happy, ect..
I mean if you're not that happy then maybe get off this forum? And go to school for something else??

What kindave doctor will you be if you're just complaining about it all the time on here?

Eh, being a cynical, medicine-hating human being is trendy nowadays. If you actually suggest that maybe medicine isn't so bad, that you don't mind the fact that doctors don't really make 400K anymore, that the hours suck but if you love the work you're ok with that, you just yelled at by disgruntled residents who tell you you're a naive idiot and that "you'll see". I think a little bit of naivete` is just what is necessary in this profession: know what you're getting yourself into, but be optimistic about your future, otherwise this will REALLY be miserable.

I'd like to also point out the fact that this is an important time for most people in the medical field. Pre-meds who are applying next year are studying for the MCAT; pre-meds who have applied are waiting on non-rolling schools and financial aid packages; med students are buried in midterms; 4th year med students are nervous about the match, which is coming up in a couple of weeks; and as for practicing doctors, Obama is pushing a plan that can severely alter doctors' practices and salaries. In short, everyone's a bit on edge and hating medicine at the moment. My advice would be to just do what you have to do, and take the negative feedback with a grain of salt. Only you know how happy you'll be in this profession. Be aware of the problems, but don't lose sight of the final goal. !

 

[lhtran07]

I'd like to also point out the fact that this is an important time for most people in the medical field. Pre-meds who are applying next year are studying for the MCAT; pre-meds who have applied are waiting on non-rolling schools and financial aid packages; med students are buried in midterms; 4th year med students are nervous about the match, which is coming up in a couple of weeks; and as for practicing doctors, Obama is pushing a plan that can severely alter doctors' practices and salaries. In short, everyone's a bit on edge and hating medicine at the moment. My advice would be to just do what you have to do, and take the negative feedback with a grain of salt. Only you know how happy you'll be in this profession. Be aware of the problems, but don't lose sight of the final goal. !

Yes, a lot of people are moody and anxious around this time of year. Even I'm counting down the days til' Match Day...which seems like its taking forever!

 

[Maygyver]

I'm getting a little it annoyed. I notice that whenever someone asks a question about anything, everyone says don't go into med school, you won't be happy, ect..
I mean if you're not that happy then maybe get off this forum? And go to school for something else??

What kindave doctor will you be if you're just complaining about it all the time on here?

If you are talking on the boards in general, not just hSDN, then you need to realize that a lot of people come here to relax after studying for the MCAT, or studying for courses in actual medical school. Chances are most college and med students are going to be pretty stressed out. For example, if you have a bad day, many times you don't focus on the few good things that happen, but instead talk about how stressful it was. The main point is that people come on here to relax and to relate to others and this includes hating the same things and realizing that everyone has to do them, but we make it through. It's not that everyone here hates medicine, its that most people are so far advanced along the pre-med or med path, that it is rather stressful and it's helpful to be able to relate to others in your situation.

 

[WatchMeRise]

and as for practicing doctors, Obama is pushing a plan that can severely alter doctors' practices and salaries. In short, everyone's a bit on edge and hating medicine at the moment. !

hopefully obama catches a terrible sickness that will send him into the hospital. maybe he'll consider the medical field as a more valuable resource.

 

[tennisball80]

hopefully obama catches a terrible sickness that will send him into the hospital. maybe he'll consider the medical field as a more valuable resource.

LOL maybe he will come on SDN and hanging out with us. Asking like "What are my chances if I were the former president of America ?" or "Why med schools should I apply if I only had a 3.0 GPA and no MCAT"

 

[WatchMeRise]

haha, no MCAT? I don't believe he should get any slack because he is a president. half the people on SDN would flip.

seriously, if obama experienced half the strife and hardwork it took to become a medical doctor, he wouldn't dare to lower their wages.

 

[physics junkie]

haha, no MCAT? I don't believe he should get any slack because he is a president. half the people on SDN would flip.

seriously, if obama experienced half the strife and hardwork it took to become a medical doctor, he wouldn't dare to lower their wages.

Yeah, because completing law school at Harvard while earning the most prized position(editor of the law review) was a cakewalk.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm getting a little it annoyed. I notice that whenever someone asks a question about anything, everyone says don't go into med school, you won't be happy, ect..
I mean if you're not that happy then maybe get off this forum? And go to school for something else??

What kindave doctor will you be if you're just complaining about it all the time on here?

I'm not sure what posts you are referring to. But I would suggest that medicine is not the cake and ice cream party a lot of premeds, let alone pre-premeds think it is. So a dose of healthy realism is sometimes warranted. A lot of what you think medicine is all about isn't the reality of the field. It's not the same field your parents/uncles/cousins are in, things have changed a lot over the last decade for folks entering the field. Nor is it like any of the countless shows on TV. And it's only the right path for a subset of the folks who actually apply, meaning some percentage who go down this long and unforgiving road and going to be unhappy. It's not clear to me whether the responders you are talking about are the ones who are unhappy, or the ones who are nice enough to warn folks that there is a big chance that many folks will be unhappy. But your job is to heed these warnings, and use them to research things better. Don't be pollyanna about this decision, assuming it will be the wonderful and happy, highly respected and well compensated path you probably think it is at this stage. You will become jaded, realize you are worked harder and for less pay than you ever thought possible. And you will spend more of your time doing paperwork than "helping people". Some people are happy on this path in spite the issues, others aren't. So go down this road with your eyes open. And make decisions after researching all your options. You should never be premed until you actually start filling out the applications. Before that, you should be open to other possibilities.

 

[Doodledog]

And you will spend more of your time doing paperwork than "helping people".

I am certain that the percentage of my CLINICAL time (we're excluding primary teaching/lecturing and research/administrative) is divided about 90% evaluating patients, discussing their care plans with my colleagues, doing procedures on them and talking to them and their families and about 10% (at most) doing paperwork. So, I'd say that, as I define it, the ratio of helping to paperwork for ME is about 9:1.

For trainees in my field, the paperwork percentage is undoubtedly higher and of course, my experiences only reflect my personal clinical practice. In general, I'd say my attending colleagues, IN MY FIELD, both new attendings and elderly physicians like me, spend 10-20% of their time on paperwork and 80-90% of the time doing direct patient care as I've defined it. Sometimes, in an academic setting, these merge (e.g. writing notes while talking....) making exact ratios difficult to calculate.

The burden of paperwork for ME has increased slightly over the last 10 years, most of the big increase occurred about 8-10 years ago, there's been little change in the "paperwork" rules for what I do in the last 5-8 years.

Again, I cannot speak for others and do not mean to generalize my description.

 

[niranjan162]

I am certain that the percentage of my CLINICAL time (we're excluding primary teaching/lecturing and research/administrative) is divided about 90% evaluating patients, discussing their care plans with my colleagues, doing procedures on them and talking to them and their families and about 10% (at most) doing paperwork. So, I'd say that, as I define it, the ratio of helping to paperwork for ME is about 9:1.

For trainees in my field, the paperwork percentage is undoubtedly higher and of course, my experiences only reflect my personal clinical practice. In general, I'd say my attending colleagues, IN MY FIELD, both new attendings and elderly physicians like me, spend 10-20% of their time on paperwork and 80-90% of the time doing direct patient care as I've defined it. Sometimes, in an academic setting, these merge (e.g. writing notes while talking....) making exact ratios difficult to calculate.

The burden of paperwork for ME has increased slightly over the last 10 years, most of the big increase occurred about 8-10 years ago, there's been little change in the "paperwork" rules for what I do in the last 5-8 years.

Again, I cannot speak for others and do not mean to generalize my description.

do you mind telling us your specialty tildy?

 

[Doodledog]

do you mind telling us your specialty tildy?

Sorry, I'm a bashful dog. There is a range of time spent on charting across specialties and practice types. My point was that, for at least one type of practice (academic medicine in my area), paperwork in all forms is a fairly small part of what I do. It would be nice if others would comment, especially attendings, on this.

 

[Law2Doc]

I am certain that the percentage of my CLINICAL time (we're excluding primary teaching/lecturing and research/administrative) is divided about 90% evaluating patients, discussing their care plans with my colleagues, doing procedures on them and talking to them and their families and about 10% (at most) doing paperwork. So, I'd say that, as I define it, the ratio of helping to paperwork for ME is about 9:1.

For trainees in my field, the paperwork percentage is undoubtedly higher and of course, my experiences only reflect my personal clinical practice. In general, I'd say my attending colleagues, IN MY FIELD, both new attendings and elderly physicians like me, spend 10-20% of their time on paperwork and 80-90% of the time doing direct patient care as I've defined it. Sometimes, in an academic setting, these merge (e.g. writing notes while talking....) making exact ratios difficult to calculate.

The burden of paperwork for ME has increased slightly over the last 10 years, most of the big increase occurred about 8-10 years ago, there's been little change in the "paperwork" rules for what I do in the last 5-8 years.

Again, I cannot speak for others and do not mean to generalize my description.

I obviously can't comment on your field, but I have watched attendings in many specialties on rounds/office visits, and many spend about 10 minutes with a patient, and much better than that 10 minutes writing up their note about the patient, documenting things in the record, filling out lab slips and ordering studies, filling out the (get out of) work notes, etc. And that doesn't include any paperwork necessary for billing/reimbursements. The ratio is rarely 9:1 in the specialties I've seen.

And I would suggest that of the patients you see, it's not a 100% seeing a patient and "helping people" correlation in the first place. There are plenty of patients you'll see who have their own, secondary gain reasons for seeing a physician and you helping them is certainly not on their agenda.

If you've streamlined things to 10% that's fantastic, but not really the norm IMHO. In a reimbursement oriented field there's actually quite a lot more paperwork required per patient when dealing with insurance companies. And various institutions have implemented various documentation rules for (legal) defensive reasons, some places moreso as things have moved from paper charts to on-line, where medication reconciliation and the like is now more possible. So yes, from what I've observed there have been a multitude of changes over the years in terms of paperwork, even in the last 5 years. It doesn't affect every practice, but it affects many.

 

[Doodledog]

There are plenty of patients you'll see who have their own, secondary gain reasons for seeing a physician and you helping them is certainly not on their agenda.

As you don't know me, my practice or anything about my patients, you don't know their motivations either. Even if a patient came to see me for "secondary gain", it might be that by recognizing that and talking to and treating such patients, I am "helping" them. Regardless, I am personally very satisfied that the patients I see and their families gain from my seeing them. I am trying to help them, even if I, as a human with failings, do not always succeed. This perception is part of the reason I find my job extremely satisfying and am grateful to be a physician.

 

[MossPoh]

Also, it is good to note that people tend to complain on open forums to open ears a lot more. When times are tough, you are also more likely to complain. I don't hear too many people going on websites to talk about how happy they are. A lot of it is getting stuff off their chest. Another portion of it is the fact that many premeds really have NO clue what they are getting themselves into. They are doing it because they "always wanted to be a doctor", yet they have no idea about the process, the length of education, or the major issues in healthcare. I personally go in expecting the worst but hoping for the best with everything I do, including medicine. People ask me why I sound pessimistic with my descriptions. I just state that it is something you can't paint in pastels. There ARE negative things and they are rarely considered in the decision process. I am lucky (or unlucky) enough to be surrounded by medicine by entire life. That immersion is what made it difficult for me to pursue at first. There are bad things and you can't just shrug them off. You have to acknowledge them and weigh them with the positives in your decision to pursue ANY profession whether it is business, engineering, teaching, or medicine.

 

[LovinPsych]

I'm getting a little it annoyed. I notice that whenever someone asks a question about anything, everyone says don't go into med school, you won't be happy, ect..
I mean if you're not that happy then maybe get off this forum? And go to school for something else??

What kindave doctor will you be if you're just complaining about it all the time on here?

I see your point , I wasn't going to say anything but um yes I noticed that too . While I believe in everyone to speak their minds on something , being negative or positive . Sometimes , it's over the top . Also , i noticed many who want to be doctors seem to be quite arrogant and even judgmental ( like (know-it-alls ) but the longer I research and pry into this new crazy world , the more I am finding that the world of Doctors is like a sea of piranhas . You just got to learn how to ride it out and survive . Seriously I understand you but just do your best to ignore it and sift through the people who's giving you sound advice . You will notice the difference between people who give you advice and express concern over those who just want to shoot you down cause they " think " they know more than you . Welcome to " The World of Doctors " .

Again I get complaining about med school etc etc sometimes cause well, things can get annoying ! Whether you love being a doctor or not however , there's a fine line between everything .

Stephy

 

[WatchMeRise]

Yeah, because completing law school at Harvard while earning the most prized position(editor of the law review) was a cakewalk.

im not saying it was a cakewalk by any means. what he has accomplished is amazing. but perhaps he does not fully understand the difficulty of the process a medical doctor goes through and does not consider it a variable at all. and this is just me speaking on a bystander point of view.

i mean, what do i know about how it feels to go through the process? im just a naive premed

 

[Maygyver]

im not saying it was a cakewalk by any means. what he has accomplished is amazing. but perhaps he does not fully understand the difficulty of the process a medical doctor goes through and does not consider it a variable at all. and this is just me speaking on a bystander point of view.

i mean, what do i know about how it feels to go through the process? im just a naive premed

I think he does, but this isn't a politics thread and politics on the intarwebs are a big no-no, so we will leave it at that.

 

[niranjan162]

Also, it is good to note that people tend to complain on open forums to open ears a lot more. When times are tough, you are also more likely to complain. I don't hear too many people going on websites to talk about how happy they are. A lot of it is getting stuff off their chest. Another portion of it is the fact that many premeds really have NO clue what they are getting themselves into. They are doing it because they "always wanted to be a doctor", yet they have no idea about the process, the length of education, or the major issues in healthcare. I personally go in expecting the worst but hoping for the best with everything I do, including medicine. People ask me why I sound pessimistic with my descriptions. I just state that it is something you can't paint in pastels. There ARE negative things and they are rarely considered in the decision process. I am lucky (or unlucky) enough to be surrounded by medicine by entire life. That immersion is what made it difficult for me to pursue at first. There are bad things and you can't just shrug them off. You have to acknowledge them and weigh them with the positives in your decision to pursue ANY profession whether it is business, engineering, teaching, or medicine.

I agree with this. Most pre-meds dont even know that much about healthcare except for the 3 hours of CNN and internet articles they try to read before an interview.

People talk about the negatives of medicine because everybody already knows the positives of medicine and they go into the field and become disillusioned.

If you go and do some research about the way healthcare is going you would know why so many doctors are unhappy. I think all pre-meds should learn more about healthcare, since its going to affect us.

 

[pressmom]

If you are talking on the boards in general, not just hSDN, then you need to realize that a lot of people come here to relax after studying for the MCAT, or studying for courses in actual medical school. Chances are most college and med students are going to be pretty stressed out. For example, if you have a bad day, many times you don't focus on the few good things that happen, but instead talk about how stressful it was. The main point is that people come on here to relax and to relate to others and this includes hating the same things and realizing that everyone has to do them, but we make it through. It's not that everyone here hates medicine, its that most people are so far advanced along the pre-med or med path, that it is rather stressful and it's helpful to be able to relate to others in your situation.

I definitely think this is true. Vet school is the most physically and emotionally exhausting thing I've ever done! I don't complain a lot on here and I'm generally happy, but it tests my resolve everyday.

But, to tell you a happy story, we have something called clinical exposure at my school where pre-clinical students get to spend some time in clinical medicine. Not only did I get to assist in a surgery on a cow today, but I also got complimented by the clinician on the rotation about my knowledge in rounds! WOOO HOOO!! (And this isn't even the species I'm interested in working on!)