Why do you keep doing it if you're miserable?

[secretwave101]

Totally. Debt rules the day.

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[tr]

Just out of curiosity, were these whiners in Psych, or another field?

Lots of them are in psych. Some of them are in my same program, and have done the exact same rotations I have, and apparently have vastly lower thresholds for describing something as 'hard'.

Also I'm including all the 'college is hard... med school is hard... second year is hard... third year is hard... intern year is hard' bs I've been hearing over the years. At every point, when I got there I found it nowhere near as difficult as advertised.

 

[thusell]

I just don't like coming to work and doing my job out of fear. Fear that if I lose my job I'll never have the ability to pay off my loans, that I'll never find as high-paying job (try getting yourself into a 140k/yr job in any OTHER field) and that my kids will grow up with lice and dirty fingernails because their Dad is a tool who couldn't stay employed.

Actually, most people who remain employed are the tools. This does not mean that being employed is a bad thing, but realize that in order to remain employed most people are quite willing to behave stupidly or unethically. Specifically, in residency, for example, people let yourself get abused and yelled at and treated like a child even though you're an adult. All because they're scared witless of being unemployed or are willing to go through that to "get to where they're going." If not accepting that makes you a tool, then the world is backwards.

 

[opthobound]

Classic post

Another problem is that most of us were just ******* kids when the snowball started rolling downhill.

Age 17: Premed? Hell, why not? Have you seen "Scrubs" yet, I love that show. It's rough though, I had to read for an hour the other night and I have classes before 10am.

Age 20: This MCAT business is ridiculous and I can't stand OChem and Physics, why all the hoops for med school application? I wonder why I have to take Calculus. Well, it must be important or else they wouldn't make us take it. Besides, I'm too far along in my Biochemistry degree to change now and I refuse to end up as some lab rat or high school teacher. It will be okay, everyone says the hardest part of med school i getting in, smooth sailing after that.

Age 22: Well this is rather disconcerting, I never imagined med school would be like this. It's kind of like college only with a lot more reading and less drinking(with other people, I mean). Well, I'm going to be the best doctor ever, I can name all the coenzymes in the Krebs cycle. I can't wait to get out on the wards and practice "real" medicine.

Age 24: Hmmm, patient contact isn't exactly all its cracked up to be. When I stated my great love for humanity in my personal statement, I definitely wasn't thinking about these humans. If I see another 80yo who feels "weak and dizzy" I'm going to lose it. But's not all bad, and I'm sure I'll it will be better when I get to concentrate on what I like. Oh wow it's already 2pm, what am I still doing at the hospital? I still need to work out before I go home and relax and read for a bit.

Age 27: How the hell did I get here? How can I be almost 30 not realize what my career really entails until now. How is that a person as educated as me serves a mostly secretarial function? Why does everything I do require a f*cking form to be filled out? I always figured that as a resident I would have some sort of defense against that bitchy nurse or lazy unit clerk that I didn't as a med student. The truth is I'm more powerless and vulnerable than before. At least I'm finally being paid for my work, but everyone seems to make out like this is some special treat I don't really deserve. I just consolidated $120,000 worth of debt and by my calculations I make $6.70 /hr. The kid at Taco Bell makes more than me.
Well, it's not all bad. I do like my field and there often a few satisfying moments in the day. Everyone says it will get better.........

They say there's a light at the end of the tunnel, but it's really just an oncoming train.

 

[persia]

"Hmmm, patient contact isn't exactly all its cracked up to be. When I stated my great love for humanity in my personal statement, I definitely wasn't thinking about these humans. If I see another 80yo who feels "weak and dizzy" I'm going to lose it."

I like this one best.

So true, it is easy to love 'humanity' in the abstract but when confronted daily with people who have three pages of medications, half a paragraph of allergies - including things like: morphine makes me sleepy, prednisone raises my blood sugars - well, then it can be easy to forget that love. My favorite is: I get low blood sugar when I don't eat all day.

Medicine can be very stressful on so many levels, emotional, psychologically and financially. Hard to really know what you are getting yourself into until you are into it. The debt is a huge reason to stay. How else can you repay $100 000 + of interest accruing debt?

I love alot about medicine but it is incredibly hard to know how you will cope after 30 hours without sleep, on a hectic and exhausting surgery internship. It is really deeply life changing - and you just can't predict how someone will deal with that.

 

[medicinesux]

That's because going into medicine is like joining a gang. Once in, it is nearly impossible to get out.

 

[docB]

That's because going into medicine is like joining a gang. Once in, it is nearly impossible to get out.

And the initiation involves beating the Hell out of you then making you kill someone.

 

[Doowai]

Stockholm syndrome

 

[secretwave101]

In my opinion, it really isn't that bad. The difficult part is simply being FORCED to do it. Freedom is a sacred thing. Not having it can ruin even the most welcome tasks.

I like being a doctor. I'm honored that people trust me with their health. It does make me feel important and that what I do from day to day actually matters sometimes. It's the feeling of having no alternatives that makes me resentful and start thinking of options (which are few, thus fueling the resentfulness cycle).

 

[DrDude]

Just a thought for those of you feeling trapped in the profession because of debt...

in a lot of other countries all or almost all of med school is paid for by the government, so grads have no or very little debt. Do doctors in those countries leave the profession more often than here since they're not obligated by debt?

 

[secretwave101]

3 years of my med school occurred in Israel. Docs there don't pay much of anything for med school. It's 6 years of school after high school, instead of the absurd 8 that we do. Then they do residencies of about the same length as us.

Docs in Israel don't get paid much. They do, however, live a comfortable life and have the chance to travel and live well among their peers. They don't need to save for retirement, for their kids' educations, for almost certain lawsuits or for their own healthcare. They have less money, but they don't need much, either. Furthermore, most of them are extremely proud of what they do and enjoy very high stature within the community. I think the respect they enjoy brings them to work every day. There is a very low attrition rate. Becoming a fully-licensed doc is competitive and very difficult (not unlike here).

It isn't utopia. You get paid "more" for doing less in a social system, rather than for doing more, like it is here in a market system. Still, I'm convinced their's is the better way to go.

 

[docB]

Just a thought for those of you feeling trapped in the profession because of debt...

in a lot of other countries all or almost all of med school is paid for by the government, so grads have no or very little debt. Do doctors in those countries leave the profession more often than here since they're not obligated by debt?

It wouldn't really be an apples to apples comparison. A place with a system different enough have a significantly different amount of med school debt would have a medical system that would have different headaches for doctors than ours.

 

[drivesmecraazee]

3 years of my med school occurred in Israel. Docs there don't pay much of anything for med school. It's 6 years of school after high school, instead of the absurd 8 that we do. Then they do residencies of about the same length as us.

Docs in Israel don't get paid much. They do, however, live a comfortable life and have the chance to travel and live well among their peers. They don't need to save for retirement, for their kids' educations, for almost certain lawsuits or for their own healthcare. They have less money, but they don't need much, either. Furthermore, most of them are extremely proud of what they do and enjoy very high stature within the community. I think the respect they enjoy brings them to work every day. There is a very low attrition rate. Becoming a fully-licensed doc is competitive and very difficult (not unlike here).

It isn't utopia. You get paid "more" for doing less in a social system, rather than for doing more, like it is here in a market system. Still, I'm convinced their's is the better way to go.

SHALOM AJI!!! MA NISHMA?

 

[drivesmecraazee]

LONG LIVE SOCIALIZED MEDICINE...Im costarrican and it actually works here just like in any other country of the world.

 

[Drogba]

LONG LIVE SOCIALIZED MEDICINE...Im costarrican and it actually works here just like in any other country of the world.

Doesn't work everywhere. Wanna hear something ridiculous? Doctors in this area of the world (SE Europe) have to wait between medical school and residency. Instead of having test scores determine which specialty you go in to the rationing method is one of attrition. Last doc I talked to was waiting for a pathology spot to open up. She's in her 2 of 5 year wait. Imagine that. Also, there is physician unemployment! Those employed in the public sector are paid ~3-4 times the minimum wage. Imagine getting paid ~$21-28/hr as a doc. Also, the waitlist for methadone treatment is a minimum of 1 year. I just talked to an ex-druggie the other day who signed up for treatment in 1999 and was finally contacted in 2002.

Social medicine doesn't work everywhere. I blame the wider system and culture though instead of social medicine per se.

 

[Miami_med]

3 years of my med school occurred in Israel. Docs there don't pay much of anything for med school. It's 6 years of school after high school, instead of the absurd 8 that we do. Then they do residencies of about the same length as us.

Docs in Israel don't get paid much. They do, however, live a comfortable life and have the chance to travel and live well among their peers. They don't need to save for retirement, for their kids' educations, for almost certain lawsuits or for their own healthcare. They have less money, but they don't need much, either. Furthermore, most of them are extremely proud of what they do and enjoy very high stature within the community. I think the respect they enjoy brings them to work every day. There is a very low attrition rate. Becoming a fully-licensed doc is competitive and very difficult (not unlike here).

It isn't utopia. You get paid "more" for doing less in a social system, rather than for doing more, like it is here in a market system. Still, I'm convinced their's is the better way to go.

My wife has a pretty close friend in Israel from childhood who recently contacted her again. (She lived in the US, then moved back to Israel in Junior High). When my wife told her that she was married to a medical student, her response was, "why would he want to become a doctor?" This didn't carry and positive implications. They then proceeded to talk about how atleast right now, physicians can actually make good money in the US.

I know very little about medicine in Israel, but this definitely made me a little suspicious. Your story is a little interesting to me, just because it seems to be opposed to what I heard before. Of course, there is a lot of misery in that region that has nothing to do with the medical system.

 

[secretwave101]

Part of the expense of our medical system is that our med professionals make so much money. It isn't REAL money because you are required to support so many areas of your life - retirement, medical care, kid's education. All that stuff is covered by government in a social system.

Quite obviously, the ideal is to go to school in Israel and remain an Israeli citizen. That way your med school is virtually free and you have all your benefits if you ever need something. Then you move to the U.S. and make 3x what you would in Israel. I knew one guy that - no kidding - flew from Tel Aviv to NY for ER shifts.

Incidentally, this is what lots of Europeans are doing. They get cheap education in their home countries, make huge dough here in business, medicine or law, and then retire back in the mother land. It's the best set up for individuals, but it's a huge weakness to social systems.

Israel's economy is depressed. Lots of people are out of work. This isn't only a problem with the medical system.

Also, keep in mind, I just spent 3 years there...I'm no expert on this stuff. It's just my impression after working with lots of doctors and using the system myself to have two kids while there.

 

[thusell]

That's because going into medicine is like joining a gang. Once in, it is nearly impossible to get out.

No, it's easy to get out. Medicine traps people in many ways. Age, since it takes so long to finish training. If, at any time, you decide you want out you're basically trying to start all over again with zero useful skill sets in your thirties. Money, since it takes so much to finish training. If, at any time, you decide you want out you're basically trying to start all over again with a debt that is greater than most people's mortgages BEFORE any living expenses that you must incur OR the cost of re-education. Skill, since you have none. Medicine is incredibly useless to anyone except physicians; this means you only have the marketable skills of a teenager, essentially. You are qualified to do minimum wage jobs, unless you go back to college. This is how medicine traps people. Therefore, you must embrace medicine and all of it's extremely gay ways.

 

[drivesmecraazee]

Doesn't work everywhere. Wanna hear something ridiculous? Doctors in this area of the world (SE Europe) have to wait between medical school and residency. Instead of having test scores determine which specialty you go in to the rationing method is one of attrition. Last doc I talked to was waiting for a pathology spot to open up. She's in her 2 of 5 year wait. Imagine that. Also, there is physician unemployment! Those employed in the public sector are paid ~3-4 times the minimum wage. Imagine getting paid ~$21-28/hr as a doc. Also, the waitlist for methadone treatment is a minimum of 1 year. I just talked to an ex-druggie the other day who signed up for treatment in 1999 and was finally contacted in 2002.

Social medicine doesn't work everywhere. I blame the wider system and culture though instead of social medicine per se.

I've never heard of those problems in socialized medicine. I'm not an expert and heven't lived in Europe but the way I figure it out is this: those problems don't happen here in Costa Rica and I tell you this is one of the countriest with the biggest ineficient governments I've ever seen, since those problems don't even happen here, why would they happen in Europe???
The problems you mentioned probably only happen in countries like Cuba, where there is no balance becuase there is only socialized medicine, and the government is the only employer, in all the democratic countries with socialized medicine there is also private, that's what keeps the balance.

 

[WallowaWanderer]

something i haven't seen mentioned is a sense of obligation. i'm not "miserable," but i have heard people who are say that they continue because they realize they have a relatively uncommon and very important set of skills or knowledge. they know that the job they're doing needs to be done and that if they don't do it their community may suffer.

ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!
OMG that was hillarious!!!!

 

[thusell]

Social medicine doesn't work everywhere.

You misspelled "anywhere."

 

[Drogba]

I've never heard of those problems in socialized medicine. I'm not an expert and heven't lived in Europe but the way I figure it out is this: those problems don't happen here in Costa Rica and I tell you this is one of the countriest with the biggest ineficient governments I've ever seen, since those problems don't even happen here, why would they happen in Europe???
The problems you mentioned probably only happen in countries like Cuba, where there is no balance becuase there is only socialized medicine, and the government is the only employer, in all the democratic countries with socialized medicine there is also private, that's what keeps the balance.

Like I said this is in a democratic SE Europe not in Cuba. There is also a growing market for private insurance here. I don't blame social medicine directly for these problems but it is obvious that it is not an effective system in the context of the country I'm speaking about.

 

[icemount]

wow, great input everyone.

 

[TRAMD]

There are a lot of whiners out there and most people aren't really as miserable as they seem.

I love my job and I am an intern.

 

[Blade28]

I love my job and I am an intern.

We weren't all smart enough to pick a lifestyle field.

 

[yohimbine1]

I'm pondering quitting or taking a LOA in hopes of quitting after MS2 this year. The things that might keep me from fulfilling that are:

1. debt in the area of 50k or 60k, which isn't crippling but is considerable

2. (more importantly) lack of skills in other careers. As an undergrad I didn't do internships or gain work experience other than the usual research and premed application padders, which are fairly useless in the real world

 

[secretwave101]

You need to quit either (1) med school, or (2) thinking about quitting. You should quit now if you're gonna do it because you will remain skill-less but the debt will compound before your disbelieving eyes. If you're stressed at 60k, think about tripling that while keeping your skill-set the same (at zero).

If you decide to jump into 3rd year, I say don't look back. Just plod forward from there. The system owns you for the next 10 years on average from there so just enjoy the good parts and realize that you can't get out of it anymore. It's a good job, it's just a high-stakes one.

 

[roja]

I will preface this with I am one of those annoying people who overall loves what I do.

I also had a career in another field, which I learned the hard way was not what I had done in school. I worked 90 hours a week and hated it almost all the time. So when I decided to leave that career, I was very very careful in deciding what I wanted to do. I got plenty of exposure and was quite aware of the good, the bad and the ugly of practicing medicine.

People CAN leave. But as docB said, you get used to the money. This is a personal choice for some: if the money generates more happiness than the unhappiness from doing the work, then its probably fair to keep doing it. However, if the money is not making up for the rest of the unhappiness, you probably need to leave.

I have known several people who went straight through, rather niavely into medicine and hated it. They are no longer practicing but HAVE found other ways to utilize thier MD's. It takes a certain amount of gumption to up and quite a career and find other venues to make money. But if you really hate practicing medicine, I feel like you should probably suck it up and quite. If you cull your expenses and work hard for a few years you can get your loans to a reasonable amount and go find a career you love. Its scary to do it, but it gets done. And some people really work at finding alternative ways to have a career without 'wasting' thier training.

 

[buckley]

There are a lot of whiners out there and most people aren't really as miserable as they seem.

I love my job and I am an intern.

I believe a wise man once said that you don't know a person until you've walked in his shoes...Hmmm...Atiitcus Finch I believe...
I think it's wonderful that you love your job. I wish I would say the same thing when I become an intern there, but I'm also not discounting the fact that there are miserable interns out there, and they are not scumbags or whiners.

 

[yohimbine1]

You need to quit either (1) med school, or (2) thinking about quitting. You should quit now if you're gonna do it because you will remain skill-less but the debt will compound before your disbelieving eyes. If you're stressed at 60k, think about tripling that while keeping your skill-set the same (at zero).

If you decide to jump into 3rd year, I say don't look back. Just plod forward from there. The system owns you for the next 10 years on average from there so just enjoy the good parts and realize that you can't get out of it anymore. It's a good job, it's just a high-stakes one.

I understand. If I enter 3rd year the situation changes. Then there's too much momentum. But I would rather look into a LOA than flat out quit, as I don't want to be rash. Better to preserve options as long as possible. I'm dreading years 3 and 4 but I could probably plod through. It's true, my real world skills won't grow but my debt will. Residency is something I haven't decided on but clinical medicine is out of the question.

Anyone know if exploring another career is a valid reason for a LOA? The way I see it if I leave it's to everyone's benefit, and if I return I will have reaffirmed dedication to medicine. There's a slight possibility I'll enroll in another institution to get some additional credentials/training...I haven't figured it all out yet. But I think I would be unhappy barreling through into 3rd year just like I've been doing all along. I also haven't decided about Step 1 but I think the safe option is to just study hard for it and take it now even though I don't want to.

 

[skypilot]

I'm pondering quitting or taking a LOA in hopes of quitting after MS2 this year. The things that might keep me from fulfilling that are:

1. debt in the area of 50k or 60k, which isn't crippling but is considerable

2. (more importantly) lack of skills in other careers. As an undergrad I didn't do internships or gain work experience other than the usual research and premed application padders, which are fairly useless in the real world

That is not much debt, people borrow that much to buy an SUV. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Winged Scapula]

You should consider what it is that is making you unhappy. Is it really medicine or some other factor that would be common in most other professions?

Like roja, I had another career, albeit not as high powered, before going back to medical school. I enjoyed my job and worked much fewer hours but it wasn't really what I wanted to do. After a few years of soul searching and hearing my mother and brother complain that they had "never done what (they) always wanted to do", I realized I was still young enough to make a change.

That said, I hated much about residency and am only now, nearly a year after fellowship, starting to enjoy things about my career once more. I am also the type of person who only works because she has to and would give it up in a minute if I won the lottery.

A LOA is reasonable if it gives you a chance to work out whether or not you wish to remain in medicine. Many people do not belong and should have left or taken an LOA, but don't. However, please realize that you cannot take an indefinite LOA from most schools - they will want some sort of time frame by which you either quit or return. And also note that many pre-clinical students are unhappy until they start their 3rd and 4th years, and can see what they've been waiting for all along.

Your debt is not overwhelming now, but the interest accural can make it such. If you complete medical school, you will have more debt, but also possibly (depending on your skills) more options for employment and paying off that debt.

 

[yohimbine1]

Thanks for the input all--I'll think about it and avoid anything hasty. It's a good thread I think.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

I believe a wise man once said that you don't know a person until you've walked in his shoes....

Actually it's "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them you're a mile away...and you have their shoes"

 

[Matthew33]

I am currently on a sick leave and have missed 6 months of first year FM residency. My program director forced me to take the time off and my doctor is unwilling to let me go back (I beg her to every week I see her). At my worst I was homeless for two weeks, and now I am stuck on disability. Really, about as far from being a doctor as I can imagine.

I have looked extensively at other job options, but they all hit me as being too boring, too risky (eg contract work), too sketchy (can't see myself fitting in with the construction road crews or the hospital housekeeping staff- have had ample opportunities to hear their conversations about their jobs on breaks in the cafeteria), or just too underpaid (why get up and work stocking shelves at 3 am or doing shift work at a factory for minimum wage). Also most other jobs have someone bigger than you controlling aspects of your life that you would rather control yourself. Starting a business myself is another option I thought of, but then I would have to have money to start it and I'd have no guaranteed salary or pay-back.

I also felt like quiting during clerkship- mostly because I was overwhelmed, and during residency due to my illness.

Why do I want to go back? I miss the challenge and purpose it gives you everyday. Right now, I have no reason to even wake up. I don't even have a clock in my apartment. I wake up whenever and if the sun is up, I get up. I walk to the pool and swim for 3 hours and walk home. The rest of the afternoon I do some reading (3 hours of medical content minimum to try to stay up to date) and then go to sleep again. I feel like a low-life walking around outside during the middle of the work day. My days are very lonely because I am living alone as my family is unaware of my illness.

What I miss most is: doing the prenatals, following my patients along during the pregnancies, doing deliveries, and then seeing the kids afterwards. Going into my office each day where I had my own room and computer, and saw patients. I miss being treated as a colleague and all the nice preceptors but not the nasty ones. Tunning into a colleague and laughing about what an idiot I am. One time, for example, I told a patient they had found and removed a 50 cm polyp when the report really meant they had found a tiny polyp 50 cm up. I miss seeing people sicker or worse off than me each day.

I am a big country music fan and I miss relating to and understanding my patients through the lyrics in the country music. I really miss the structure medicine provided and the accomplishment.

What I don't miss though, is all the politics and forms. Sometimes I would think to myself that I would have more freedom in my life if I had joined the military. I don't miss that. I also have this horrible feeling of inadequacy and that I will never know or remember enough. That fear will definitely hit me again if I ever get to come back.

What keeps me wanting to go back? If I can make it through FM residency, I will have ample career opportunities, my own practice almost anywhere I want, and far better pay than the migrant farm workers in my home region who work longer hours than myself. And I know that if it doesn't work out, I can always change locations, hours, or even careers if I need to.

An interesting similarity to a family doctor in Japan is the Buddhist Marathon Monk. These people undergo numerous challenges (read tortures) to achieve their title. They do it not for money but for a personal sense of enlightenment. Most prospects fail. I think some of the things they do involve running barefoot marathons daily and going without food or water for a week. During the experience, it is awful, but looking back afterwards, you remember the good times, realize how much you actually learned and came to appreciate, see the world in a new way, and emerge as a respected and powerful member of the community.

 

[Drawing Dead]

I hated everything about it including the patients, the nurses, the attendings and most residents. I had never met a more pretentious and miserable group of people.

I feel the same way, mostly about the nurses, attending and residents, and definately agree with the PRETENTIOUS part. I feel like I have been pledging a fraternity all over again, only for 4 years. And maybe that's what gets me through my clinicals. I can see through the mind f***s like the bs scut work I get sent to do.

I've had some messed up things happen to me the last two years, and I almost wanted to quit last year because I had interns making it a priority to make me miserable. Why, because I offended one of them who was going into PM&R by saying "I think I'm going to go into something easy, like Psych or PM&R".

I've also dealt with nurses, and heard this conversation in the OR:
Resident: Why do you yell at students?
Nurse: Because I've got to yell at somebody.

I've also had OR nurses yell at me for coming within 5 feet of an OR table, while everyone else basically brushes up against it.

And then there's always the attending who everyone either looks up to or fears. He/She commands respect, whether they are an eagle scout or a jerk. They could be the biggest a**h*** in the world, but still, they are the attending, and must be feared.

And that's what I dislike about medicine the most, the hierarchy, and the notion that s*** flows down hill. Many people have brought up the notion of fear in medicine. Everyone seems to fear everyone else above them. Everyone seems to forget their roots, that just a few years ago they were a resident, or an intern, or a student. And mostly, everyone forgets that in the end, we are all HUMAN. And I'm making it my priority next year to make sure it stops at me.

 

[Leukocyte]

Will I do it over again knowing what I know about medicine now?

Who cares? I am 30 years old, >200,000 dollars in debt, and spent the prime years of my life attending colleges. As far as I am concerned I MUST learn to "like" what I do because, frankly, I am stuck. It is way to late to start a new career now, especially after investing too much of my time, youth, and money.

If I was a "young buck" (20-24) AND a US citizen (I came here as a refugee Immigrant), I would have been:

-An Air Force Pilot or
-A FBI Detective/Profiler or

Too late now.

 

[deleted4401]

It's not so bad. No one put a gun to your head. Loans can be paid off, or you can leave the country, or change your identity, or fake your death. I know a girl who did that. Or do a more reasonable specialty - there's some really good ones - rads, derm, anesthesia, path, psych, nucmed, occupational, optho, ent, pmr.

I love my patients and have an interest in their diseases. My patients like me. It's challenging. I learn all day and I get to eat dinner and sleep in my own house (or a restaurant or somebody else's house). I presume when residency is over, I'll do alright financially, but people are always talking reimbursement cuts. Whatever. $200k in loan stinks, but so does working for Goldman Sachs.

I'd rather do this than any other job except: 1) pro basketball player 2) head of free world 3) boy band singer. I missed the deadline for 2 or 3, and got cut from junior high basketball team. So, stuck with rad-onc.

I think people complain too much. No point - no one is listening. If they are listening, they will dispute you, and then say they are working harder than you.
-S

 

[Leukocyte]

I'd rather do this than any other job except: 1) pro basketball player 2) head of free world 3) boy band singer. I missed the deadline for 2 or 3, and got cut from junior high basketball team. So, stuck with rad-onc.

There you go. The magic phrase "stuck with".

I too would rather do medicine than my previous job, but medicine is certainly not my dream job. But it is better than anything else I can afford to do currently. Wither I like it or not is irrelivent. My options now are limited, and medicine is the best career that I can afford to do at this time.

By the way, being a first generation immigrant who has spent most of his life thus far being a refugee, moving from one country to another...my "career was the LAST thing on my mind. The BEST thing that ever happened to me was the previlage to come to and live in the USA. Now I am a US citizen (just became one 2 weeks ago) and I am VERY grateful that I finaly have a country to call my own. Medicine or no medicine, I do not care. All I ask is to live normaly, and for my (future) kids to never experience what I went through (politicaly). I would rather be a doctor than work in a Deli, but still this does not change the fact that medicine is not my dream career. However, I thank God every day that I am a doctor.

 

[TRAMD]

I believe a wise man once said that you don't know a person until you've walked in his shoes...Hmmm...Atiitcus Finch I believe...
I think it's wonderful that you love your job. I wish I would say the same thing when I become an intern there, but I'm also not discounting the fact that there are miserable interns out there, and they are not scumbags or whiners.

By being an intern I am "walking in their shoes" in a way. Unless you are asking me to go through every residency in the country before passing judgment . . .

Notice that I said "there are a lot of whiners" not "all people that are unhappy are whiners". Although I am not sure I don't actually believe the latter.

I also reserve "scumbag" for referring to lawyers only.

 

[TRAMD]

I am currently on a sick leave and have missed 6 months of first year FM residency. My program director forced me to take the time off and my doctor is unwilling to let me go back (I beg her to every week I see her). At my worst I was homeless for two weeks, and now I am stuck on disability. Really, about as far from being a doctor as I can imagine.

Some kind of illness where you feel healthy enough to swim and go to work but are not allowed to? Is it contagious? Psychiatric? Why haven't you told your family about this?

 

[TRAMD]

I feel the same way, mostly about the nurses, attending and residents, and definately agree with the PRETENTIOUS part. I feel like I have been pledging a fraternity all over again, only for 4 years. And maybe that's what gets me through my clinicals. I can see through the mind f***s like the bs scut work I get sent to do.

I've had some messed up things happen to me the last two years, and I almost wanted to quit last year because I had interns making it a priority to make me miserable. Why, because I offended one of them who was going into PM&R by saying "I think I'm going to go into something easy, like Psych or PM&R".

I've also dealt with nurses, and heard this conversation in the OR:
Resident: Why do you yell at students?
Nurse: Because I've got to yell at somebody.

I've also had OR nurses yell at me for coming within 5 feet of an OR table, while everyone else basically brushes up against it.

And then there's always the attending who everyone either looks up to or fears. He/She commands respect, whether they are an eagle scout or a jerk. They could be the biggest a**h*** in the world, but still, they are the attending, and must be feared.

And that's what I dislike about medicine the most, the hierarchy, and the notion that s*** flows down hill. Many people have brought up the notion of fear in medicine. Everyone seems to fear everyone else above them. Everyone seems to forget their roots, that just a few years ago they were a resident, or an intern, or a student. And mostly, everyone forgets that in the end, we are all HUMAN. And I'm making it my priority next year to make sure it stops at me.

I am going into PM&R and consider this a compliment to my good decision of specialty.

 

[pseudoknot]

I am going into PM&R and consider this a compliment to my good decision of specialty.

You're unusual (or maybe unique) in the world of medicine that way.

 

[swpm]

That is not much debt, stupid people borrow that much to buy an SUV. I wouldn't worry about it.

FTFY.

$60K is what, triple the average debt new college graduates have these days?

Because this is what he'd be after two years of med school - a new college graduate, but two years older, minus any of the job skills, intern experiences, and contacts enjoyed by the average new college graduate who didn't dick around with two years of anatomy and pathology.

 

[189362]

Stockholm syndrome

Wow I had never thought of it like that, but Stockhold syndrome is right!

Loyalty to a more powerful abuser.

Medicine from house keeping to neurosurgeons (not that Im comparing the two) is generally practiced in high stress enviroments. A lot of people are unhappy because things dont exactlly go the way they want. Thats life. But for someone who wants to be successful and be able to raise a family in a comfortable atmosphere a lot of the trails and tribulations experienced seems neccesary. Selflessness goes a loong way, and i am willing to sacrifice myself to have meaning and purpose to my life.

 

[Drawing Dead]

I know TRAMD. People can be so damn sensitive in this field. I'm glad there are at least some down to earth people around here.

 

[buckley]

By being an intern I am "walking in their shoes" in a way. Unless you are asking me to go through every residency in the country before passing judgment . . .

Notice that I said "there are a lot of whiners" not "all people that are unhappy are whiners". Although I am not sure I don't actually believe the latter.

By "walking in their shoes", I thought that meant living their lives, not just their jobs. And we all know it's impossible for anyone to really do that, so I always thought the lesson was just don't pass judgment...which I know is hard He who has no sin cast the first stone, right?
I'm not saying I don't judge people (I am guilty! guilty!) but I just thought I'd comment that unhappy whiner could very well have something to whine about like being somebody in the midst of a divorce, whose parents are in the midst of a divorce, and both with a pending mortgage foreclosure--all while being stripped down to the core by the wearies of internship. Whining may not be the best defense mechanism out there. But maybe it won't kill you so much to cut them some slack? Good for you that you are happy and satisfied. But should you ever come to the time that you do utter a whine, I think you'd appreciate it if others cut you some slack. And if you say there's absolutely no way in the world you would ever whine, then I will be genuinely happy for you.

 

[TRAMD]

By "walking in their shoes", I thought that meant living their lives, not just their jobs. And we all know it's impossible for anyone to really do that, so I always thought the lesson was just don't pass judgment...which I know is hard He who has no sin cast the first stone, right?
I'm not saying I don't judge people (I am guilty! guilty!) but I just thought I'd comment that unhappy whiner could very well have something to whine about like being somebody in the midst of a divorce, whose parents are in the midst of a divorce, and both with a pending mortgage foreclosure--all while being stripped down to the core by the wearies of internship. Whining may not be the best defense mechanism out there. But maybe it won't kill you so much to cut them some slack? Good for you that you are happy and satisfied. But should you ever come to the time that you do utter a whine, I think you'd appreciate it if others cut you some slack. And if you say there's absolutely no way in the world you would ever whine, then I will be genuinely happy for you.

Do you know how to know if I am whining? . . . Look and see if my mouth is moving. I am a huge whiner. Pointing out a problem doesn't mean that I am not a part of it. I also know that what I need in my times of whining is a little kick in the butt and a friendly reminder to hush up and realize that things ain't so bad.

People going through truly hard times like you mentioned above certainly deserve some slack.

Then there are people like the OP of this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=485968 that want you to feel sorry for them because they only make $150,000/yr. Whiners.

 

[U4iA]

It's all about perspective.

Appreciate what you have.

And do your best for a better world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvTFKpIaQhM

 

[buckley]

I also know that what I need in my times of whining is a little kick in the butt and a friendly reminder to hush up and realize that things ain't so bad.

I agree, there are times when this is the best form of support sort of like a jolt therapy moment. Just don't kick so hard! I remember I once got a message about how you'll recognize who your real friends are...they are the ones who when you've tripped and fallen face flat on the floor, will rush by your side and tell you, "That's what you get for not looking where you're walking, dumba**!" I'm still a huge fan of supportive psychotherapy...