Why do some HPSPers not even apply to USUHS?

[liverfingers]

Why did some of you all doing the HPSP scholarship route not apply to USUHS? Is it financially better to do the HPSP rather than go to USU? Isn't the difference in time commitment just 4 years vs 7?

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[notdeadyet]

Why did some of you all doing the HPSP scholarship route not apply to USUHS? Is it financially better to do the HPSP rather than go to USU? Isn't the difference in time commitment just 4 years vs 7?

I didn't end up doing HPSP, but I ruled out UHUHS first because I liked the curriculum, opportunities, and reputation of most of the medical schools I applied to more than at UHUHS. It's a great medical school, but there were a lot I just liked better.

As for the commitment difference being "just 4 years vs 7", consider this: while some folks on this board are very pro-milmed and some are very anti-milmed, no one disputes that the vast majority of folks leave milmed as soon as their obligation is up. The figure I heard was 96%.

So 4 years vs. 7 years is going to be pretty significant if you're trying to leave. I can't imagine recommending UHUHS to anyone who either wasn't prior service or had very intimate experience in military life, hopefully in milmed.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I didn't want to go to school on the East Coast and I hadn't heard very good things about the quality of education at USUHS. Not to mention I didn't want to wear a uniform to school every day or move for every rotation.....need I go on?

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

All of the above for me as well, particularly the extra 4 years (since I did the 3-year scholarship). I think there was also some technicality about my employer writing an LOR. I could be wrong about this last, but I just remember thinking how my boss in the ER was a ***** and that it wasn't worth the effort considering I was competitive at better schools.

 

[liverfingers]

Moving for every rotation? Please elaborate?

Also, I thought USUHS was a good medical school?

My stats are 3.82 cGPA, 3.84sGPA, 31Q, good extra currics (competitive premed internship, lots of shadowing, volunteering, started a club, 2 years research), and I think good LoRs... would I be competitve at "better" medical schools than USUHS?

To be honest, I haven't really considered any other option into the military other than USU since I thought it was a good med school with good money, but if HPSP is a better option for me, please let me know!

 

[TheGoose]

it depends what you want. USU is a good medical school. Your grades could get you into a civilian medical school. do what you want.

just a comment about me...im not prior service nor have had a military upbringing but im applying to usu. my usual pre-sleep routine is debating in my head for a half hour about pro's/con's and lifestyles if i went civvie/USUHS. its not an easy decision. im really going to try and get a feel for it when i go down to visit.

 

[TheGoose]

another thing....in theory HPSPers can do 2 2yr GMO tours and GTFO....if you go to USUHS i doubt you or any student would want to do a 7 year GMO....so that means you have an extended residency period when youre in the military system as well. so its not just 4yr Vs 7yr in that way

 

[notdeadyet]

Also, I thought USUHS was a good medical school?

It is exactly that. It's a good medical school. It's not a bad school (there aren't many bad medical schools) but it's not what I'd consider a great one either.

My stats are 3.82 cGPA, 3.84sGPA, 31Q, good extra currics (competitive premed internship, lots of shadowing, volunteering, started a club, 2 years research), and I think good LoRs... would I be competitve at "better" medical schools than USUHS?

No one knows. Apply widely, apply broadly, then weigh your options. If UHUHS is your only shot, it suddenly becomes a great school. If you get offered a full-ride at Duke, you'll laugh at the idea of UHUHS.

 

[notdeadyet]

To be honest, I haven't really considered any other option into the military other than USU since I thought it was a good med school with good money, but if HPSP is a better option for me, please let me know!

Are you really thinking these things through? Don't join either unless you have a strong drive to be in the military.

Anyone can pay for medical school. HPSP is a great deal for those who want to be in the military anyway and happen to get free tuition out of the deal. Sweet.

But UHUHS is not a good idea for anyone who isn't completely sure that they want to spend a good portion of their life serving in uniform.

4-years at USUHS + 1-year internship + 2-7 year residency + 7-years payback = 14-19 year serving in the military, depending on specialty.

There is just no way UHUHS is a good plan unless you really want to spend a lot of your life as an officer in the military. And god bless them, many do. If you're not one, do not go there.

 

[liverfingers]

I didn't want to go to school on the East Coast and I hadn't heard very good things about the quality of education at USUHS. Not to mention I didn't want to wear a uniform to school every day or move for every rotation.....need I go on?

Are you really thinking these things through? Don't join either unless you have a strong drive to be in the military.

Anyone can pay for medical school. HPSP is a great deal for those who want to be in the military anyway and happen to get free tuition out of the deal. Sweet.

But UHUHS is not a good idea for anyone who isn't completely sure that they want to spend a good portion of their life serving in uniform.

4-years at USUHS + 1-year internship + 2-7 year residency + 7-years payback = 14-19 year serving in the military, depending on specialty.

There is just no way UHUHS is a good plan unless you really want to spend a lot of your life as an officer in the military. And god bless them, many do. If you're not one, do not go there.

I just don't know about all this moving around-- I have a long-term girlfriend who wants to continue with graduate studies that I have to consider when making all of these decisions. Moving around and all that would make it hard for her. Just how much moving is there going to be? And when? For residency? Internship? GMO?

 

[Perrotfish]

3) I grew up in that area, I'd rather not go to medical school near my parents.

2) I didn't want to have to deal with military discipline throughout medical school

1) I didn't want to have a 7 year commitment. This is important: I want to go into the military for what I think are the 'right' reasons, but truth be told my knowledge of military life is all second hand. I've never served and I'm not from a military family. I like the fact that, if I truely hate the organization, I can be back to civilian life in as little as 5 years.

Personally I think there should be an act of Congress limiting the amount of active duty commitment you can accumulate. USUHS people, and particularly people who go ROTC --> USUHS have effectively signed their entire life over to the military, which I think is not something you should be able to do with any organization.

 

[TheGoose]

3)
Personally I think there should be an act of Congress limiting the amount of active duty commitment you can accumulate. USUHS people, and particularly people who go ROTC --> USUHS have effectively signed their entire life over to the military, which I think is not something you should be able to do with any organization.

its certainly a good way to develop disgruntled staff members and encourage mediocrity

 

[dtn3t]

I just don't know about all this moving around-- I have a long-term girlfriend who wants to continue with graduate studies that I have to consider when making all of these decisions. Moving around and all that would make it hard for her. Just how much moving is there going to be? And when? For residency? Internship? GMO?

At USUHS you could potentially move every few weeks (6?) during your last 2 years of med school. DC for one rotation, Texas for the next, then Hawaii, then Portsmouth, you get the idea. Not everyone moves around that much, but it is possible.

After graduation, you'll have a year for internship and depending on your branch you could move for a GMO tour, and then deploy, and then move again when you come back to residency. And then when you're done training, you could move every 2-3 years as you fulfill the 7 year commitment.

If moving around is going to make it hard for your girl now, how is it going to be if you two are still together and you have to move every few years? Or if you're sent to a place that doesn't have a job for her in her field? Or if she moves with you to x location where she can't find a job and then you get deployed (again)? Or if you end up having a family and you have to make your wife find another job with every move and your kids change schools and make new friends again. Or... Or...

Don't mean to be so blunt, but at least you know now and can take this into consideration - not just for USUHS, but the military in general. It's only piece of what you sacrifice by joining and something you'll have to consider and expect.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

I just don't know about all this moving around-- I have a long-term girlfriend who wants to continue with graduate studies that I have to consider when making all of these decisions. Moving around and all that would make it hard for her. Just how much moving is there going to be? And when? For residency? Internship? GMO?

OK, what's worse than blindly wandering into a medical career in the military is making huge decisions like where you do your medical training and what career avenue you'll pursue because of a girlfriend. This is your life, your career, so make your decisions accordingly. Absolutely consider what effect being a deployable military physician might have on your family life, but for God's sake don't do it (or not) because it might make it difficult for this one particular person to uproot and finish her education.

 

[liverfingers]

But I've heard that a large percentage of the people at USU are married-- how does that work? I don't know guys, I love my country and want to serve, but wow, you all are making it seem like a pretty raw deal.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

I just don't know about all this moving around-- I have a long-term girlfriend who wants to continue with graduate studies that I have to consider when making all of these decisions. Moving around and all that would make it hard for her. Just how much moving is there going to be? And when? For residency? Internship? GMO?

The military can be tough on non-military spouses, especially if that person wants or has a career they wish to follow. I am not saying it's impossible, but being in the military does not make things easier. Somebody has to be able to give, and sometimes give a lot. If that idea makes you think your GF would be unhappy if you joined and had to move on orders, and her happiness is important to you, then I suggest you do medical school outside the service. There will always be an opportunity to join, and probably be paid for joining, later on.

I moved four times in four years on AD, all on a normal schedule and on routine PCS orders. They were all long-distance moves to other states. Others were able to stay put (in Hampton Roads VA) for five years before getting out to train as civilians.

 

[TheGoose]

But I've heard that a large percentage of the people at USU are married-- how does that work? I don't know guys, I love my country and want to serve, but wow, you all are making it seem like a pretty raw deal.

i dont know why youre relying on information from a forum to make your life decisions. this is a source of information and opinions but in the end, you need to be an adult and make the decision for yourself. we dont know you. you know you. you are the one making the final choice. good luck

 

[liverfingers]

i dont know why youre relying on information from a forum to make your life decisions. this is a source of information and opinions but in the end, you need to be an adult and make the decision for yourself. we dont know you. you know you. you are the one making the final choice. good luck

It's such a huge decision and I know so little about what will decide my life from next year on out that I just want to know as much as I can. I know it is my life and it is my decision, but f*ck me it's so confusing and I've got all these other things to consider, I just wish it were all simpler.

 

[Perrotfish]

I know it is my life and it is my decision, but f*ck me it's so confusing and I've got all these other things to consider, I just wish it were all simpler.

1) Are you accepted at both USUHS and another medical school? It seems sort of early for you to be getting acceptance packets. It might be that the admissions process simplifies things for you.

2) Are you thinking of proposing to this girl? It's complicated planning around someone who has not actually commitment to you

3) Have you read up on FAP? A cheap state school followed by FAP is probably the simplest way into the military in terms of your significant other. If you go to a debt heavy school (like me) that might not be a finacially viable option, but if you have the option FAP is probably the way to go.

It's such a huge decision and I know so little about what will decide my life from next year on out that I just want to know as much as I can.

This was sort of my point. When your major source of information about something is books, movies, friends, and internet forums I think your goal should be to minimize you initial commitment. If you want to stay in for longer after you've had personal experience that's great, but assuming that you will want to stay in before you've had the experience seems sort of... well you know what assuming does. Just my 2 cents.

 

[colbgw02]

Why did some of you all doing the HPSP scholarship route not apply to USUHS? Is it financially better to do the HPSP rather than go to USU? Isn't the difference in time commitment just 4 years vs 7?

Yeah...just 3 extra years.

 

[dgoody123]

I checked out USU and it appears I would be too old. I still have 18-24 month's of prereqs, and am already 39 -- the regs say 35 is the absolute limit.

I only recently considered the Navy again -- if I were to go back I would stay for 20, so I am not that concerned with 7 years.

Btw -- do I have the age limit right?

 

[MaximusD]

USUHS carries a much longer obligation. 3 extra years is NOT insignificant by any stretch. It almost doubles most HPSP obligations.

I am not sure I could handle 7 years of zero control over my career... much diff ballpark than 3-4.

 

[sethco]

OK, what's worse than blindly wandering into a medical career in the military is making huge decisions like where you do your medical training and what career avenue you'll pursue because of a girlfriend. This is your life, your career, so make your decisions accordingly. Absolutely consider what effect being a deployable military physician might have on your family life, but for God's sake don't do it (or not) because it might make it difficult for this one particular person to uproot and finish her education.

Please don't take offense to this, but here is a little advice...

Never let your work become your life.

(Almost) Nobody ever lays on their deathbed saying I wish I had worked more.

Not saying that this GF would eventually be the spouse, but it should be considered and you should absolutely consider your SO's feelings.

To the OP, if you are worried about moving to a place which you would not like to be at, don't join the military.

 

[sethco]

USUHS carries a much longer obligation. 3 extra years is NOT insignificant by any stretch. It almost doubles most HPSP obligations.

I am not sure I could handle 7 years of zero control over my career... much diff ballpark than 3-4.

Here I am more than halfway through my 4 year commitment, and I can tell you, there is almost nothing I wouldn't give to have it reduced to a 3 year.

 

[TheGoose]

I only recently considered the Navy again --
Btw -- do I have the age limit right?

i was about to go into a long explanation about someone in a similar post who had the same question....but it was you the only answer i can say is to refer to NavyFP's explanation that you need to be able to serve 20 by age 62, meaning that you can subtract you retire-able years from your age when determining that stuff....oh, the alternative is to call the admissions office of USUHS and ask. (which i would highly recommend)

 

[pgg]

Something to keep in mind is that the 4 year payback advertised by HPSP doesn't necessarily mean you'll be done in 4 years.

It's not uncommon for HPSP grads to do a two-year GMO tour and then (rather than do two more as a GMO and getting out) complete a military residency and incur an additional obligation that in effect makes their commitment just as long as a USUHS grad's commitment.

As a USUHS grad, I know more than a few HPSP grads who were in my intern class and went out and did 3 year GMO tours like I did. Now we're residents, and when we're done, they'll owe 3 years, and I'll owe 4. That's because med school ADSO is served concurrently with residency ADSO.

HPSP has a shorter obligation than USUHS if and only if you go straight through to residency or you do your time as a GMO and get out.

HPSP grads who do GMO time (no one can guarantee they won't) and military residencies ultimately end up with an ADSO very similiar to USUHS grads.

 

[liverfingers]

I thought about it, and USU is still my top choice, followed by a civilian school with HPSP. Thanks for your help guys

 

[dgoody123]

i was about to go into a long explanation about someone in a similar post who had the same question....but it was you the only answer i can say is to refer to NavyFP's explanation that you need to be able to serve 20 by age 62, meaning that you can subtract you retire-able years from your age when determining that stuff....oh, the alternative is to call the admissions office of USUHS and ask. (which i would highly recommend)

I understand the serving 20 by age 62 part, but USU has a different policy on simply accepting people beyond a certain age limit.

If I am still considering the Navy 12 month's from now, I will make more of an effort to get the straight scoop from USU. I was just curious if anyone knew of any older folks at USU now?

 

[SirGecko]

Personally I think there should be an act of Congress limiting the amount of active duty commitment you can accumulate. USUHS people, and particularly people who go ROTC --> USUHS have effectively signed their entire life over to the military, which I think is not something you should be able to do with any organization.

Ah, see but if they did that I am sure they would just make it impossible for us ROTC folks to even apply to medical school. I realize that would only affect a small handful of people (20 or so from the Navy each year) but I'm pretty sure we are the ones most likely to want to stay in for our careers so I can't see loosing us as a good thing. (and I think most ROTC people that decide to go the medicine route are pretty informed about it; in my unit there were three of us freshman year and the other two decided they'd rather wait till they got out of the military to go to medical school if they decide to go at all, and that wasn't because of grades or anything)

 

[Perrotfish]

Ah, see but if they did that I am sure they would just make it impossible for us ROTC folks to even apply to medical school. I realize that would only affect a small handful of people (20 or so from the Navy each year) but I'm pretty sure we are the ones most likely to want to stay in for our careers so I can't see loosing us as a good thing. (and I think most ROTC people that decide to go the medicine route are pretty informed about it; in my unit there were three of us freshman year and the other two decided they'd rather wait till they got out of the military to go to medical school if they decide to go at all, and that wasn't because of grades or anything)

Well if I was running things (said the untrained Ensign) I would limit the non-IRR commitment to 6 years, meaning that, worst case scenario, ROTC grads would have to serve only 2 years of active duty before applying to medical school. I would allow ROTC commitments made before this rule was implimented to overlap with medical school commitment, so that an ROTC grad who was grandfathered in and then went to USUHS would only serve 6 years, rather than 11.

I realize that this still would basically mean that ROTC grads who joined after the rule was implimented couldn't go directly to medical school, but, honestly I think that's a much more reasonable scenario than guys like medical corpse who realized they hated milimed from day 1 and were staring down the barrel of a 15 year commitment. I think 1 of him is worse for the military than 20 ROTC grads who stay for life. I also think that those 20 grads, if they really would like the military, wouldn't be detered by serving 2 years as line officers. Also, like I said before, I don't think it's possible to be completely informed about a career you've never had, it's like being ready to marry a girl you've never dated. I mean maybe you've done your reasearch, maybe she looks hot and you've heard she's intelligent, but you just shouldn't commit your life to her until you've had some personal experience.

To me, ROTC --> USUHS is the Vegas wedding of job applications.

 

[IgD]

I thought about it, and USU is still my top choice, followed by a civilian school with HPSP. Thanks for your help guys

I'm curious what are the main reasons you made USU your top choice? Is it because you have a motivation to serve or you see it as a good academic school?

 

[giuseppe]

Any service academy cadets/midshipmen want to give me their opinion on USUHS? I have interviews at Georgetown/GWU/USUHS next month (the only 3 med schools I applied to). The location sold me more than any particular institution. I fell in love with DC after spending a summer studying at Georgetown my summer b/w 2-degree and firstie year. Assuming I get into all three schools, can you tell me the pros/cons of the other DC med schools from a USUHS perspective? As odd as it sounds, I feel like going from Academy to USUHS as sort of a downgrade... maybe it's just the stigma of being from the Academy. It always bothers me that the top pre-med kids from the Academy won't even touch USUHS. And since I'm one of those kids this year, and I really want to fall in love with USUHS when I go out to visit, I'm wondering if they know something I don't. Thanks.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Any service academy cadets/midshipmen want to give me their opinion on USUHS? I have interviews at Georgetown/GWU/USUHS next month (the only 3 med schools I applied to). The location sold me more than any particular institution. I fell in love with DC after spending a summer studying at Georgetown my summer b/w 2-degree and firstie year. Assuming I get into all three schools, can you tell me the pros/cons of the other DC med schools from a USUHS perspective? As odd as it sounds, I feel like going from Academy to USUHS as sort of a downgrade... maybe it's just the stigma of being from the Academy. It always bothers me that the top pre-med kids from the Academy won't even touch USUHS. And since I'm one of those kids this year, and I really want to fall in love with USUHS when I go out to visit, I'm wondering if they know something I don't. Thanks.

Yes, they probably know something you don't. That something is that USUHS is an average med school at best. Of course, average in the US is pretty good and certainly good enough to get into most residencies you're interested in, especially since you have to do a military match.

I'm surprised you fell in love with D.C. Such an expensive place to live while on a student income. I know doctors moving away from there because they can't afford a decent place to live on an attending salary.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Yes, they probably know something you don't. That something is that USUHS is an average med school at best. Of course, average in the US is pretty good and certainly good enough to get into most residencies you're interested in, especially since you have to do a military match.

I'm surprised you fell in love with D.C. Such an expensive place to live while on a student income. I know doctors moving away from there because they can't afford a decent place to live on an attending salary.

Unfortunately true. Doctors and their incomes are nothing special in DC, sort of like in Silicon Valley, where other better-paid people set the bar for affordability of housing.

Private practice in DC is similarly hampered, where high rents and high staff labor costs (not to mention high malpractice premiums) combined with high taxes, aggressively-discounting managed care plans and bloated Medicaid rolls all squeeze doctor's incomes. By comparison, opportunities in the southeast offer lower living costs, lower operating costs and generally less congestion.

DC can be great as a student; expensive, but with lots of diversions. But after school, when you are trying to make headway in savings, buying a home and generally getting ahead in life, other places offer doctors much better opportunities.

 

[Mirror Form]

Ah, see but if they did that I am sure they would just make it impossible for us ROTC folks to even apply to medical school. I realize that would only affect a small handful of people (20 or so from the Navy each year) but I'm pretty sure we are the ones most likely to want to stay in for our careers so I can't see loosing us as a good thing. (and I think most ROTC people that decide to go the medicine route are pretty informed about it; in my unit there were three of us freshman year and the other two decided they'd rather wait till they got out of the military to go to medical school if they decide to go at all, and that wasn't because of grades or anything)

This makes zero sense b/c there is no reason why the military couldn't offer you a education delay for medical school. That is what many in the army do after ROTC.