Why do med students/residents/physicians hate Nurses???

[Texasgirl1000]

Hello,

I am not trying to start a war, but I would really like to get your honest opinion on this subject. I am new to the forum and I am an RN. I will be the first to admit that I hate nursing and going into it was a mistake. I will state that I hate LPN and Community College nursing programs because it has hurt our profession, and has resulted in a lack of respect from the public and other healthcare professionals. While I do not like the field of nursing, and fully admit that there are mean, lazy and stupid nurses working, many are not that way. I am really disheartened by the amount of animosity toward nurses that I see on this forum. I COMPLETELY respect med students, residents, and physician's amount of education, and your dedication to commit to many years of school and residency. I never challenge doctors because I know you have more education and training than me, and overall I have a very good relationship with the physicians I work with. I have not gone to medical school, but I do have a BS degree and graduated Summa Cum Laude, so I am by no means stupid or uneducated. I recently read a thread where many were angry because President Obama praised nurses, and the amount of insults made toward nurses was stunning. What is wrong with nurses being praised for our hard work and and contribution toward the care of patients? Praising a nurse is not in any way insulting a physician, or insinuating that they are do less than a nurse. I think it is pretty clear who is the most important and most respected member of the healthcare team...you are, so why do some of you have to beat down nurses and point out how much less we know than a Physician? We already know that we are not as well educated or trained as a Physician, and have to do mostly grunt work, and are too busy running around the units like dogs to sit and understand what is really happening with our patients...do you have to kick us when we are down? Not all nurses were too stupid or unmotivated to go to med school, but our circumstances did not permit that life course, or in my case, I made the wrong decision. Frankly, there are a lot of nurses out there who do not have the focus or ability to make into or through med school, but shouldn't that elicit your compassion instead of your insults? People say Doctors don't like midlevel practitioners, but I seem to see doctors not liking NP's and CRNA's. If one is a PA or AA, doctors seem to be fine with them. Why is that? Is is because NP's and CRNA's have "nurse" in their title? I know this is a long post, but I would really like to understand why some here hate nurses so much.

Thanks

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[PimplePopperMD]

In real life, off the blogosphere, there is great respect, in general, both ways (ie physician to nurse and nurse to physician). In my six year career, I have experienced minimal problems, and generally great relationships with the nursing staff. It becomes crystal clear early on in practice that in order to be a better physician, communication (including listening) with nurses improves patient care. On this site, for whatever reason, a lot of nonsense goes back and forth. A great diagnostician, with a great medical plan, still needs to be implented by the nursing staff, and if it's not communicated well, it's no longer great! Further, bumps in the road which are appreciated by the nursing staff need to be communicated to the physician, and if the physician doesn't listen, again the patient's care is compromised.

 

[MOHS_01]

TX,

It is all of reflection of where one stands in life's journey. Think of medical students and residents as teenagers. They yearn autonomy but are not yet ready for it, may hold a doctorate yet are treated as subordinates, etc. Like teenagers, they are full of ambition, drive, and angst. They often have anger and know not how to direct it. Some of these go on to become bitter, disgruntled, unhappy physicians. This group is eternally bitter, and, when one is truly miserable in life, they are utterly incapable of being pleasant. Some are just having a bad day, some are having trouble with finances, debt, home life, etc.

Try to overlook it. Best of luck and hang in there.

 

[Texasgirl1000]

I truly appreciate the two responses I received, they were very kind and balanced, and I agree wholeheartedly with them. Frankly, I do understand that med students/residents/physicians work very hard, and have personal lives and problems of their own. Knowing this, I understand that professionalism and basic respect can be lacking at times, especially during stressful situations.

However, I must say that I am extremely disappointed by the lack of responses to this post when over 100 have read it. I suppose a post by a nurse is not worth your time and honesty? Frankly, the lack of response given to my post seems to make my case for me. I would like to see the people who were degrading and insulting nurses (RN's, NP's and CRNA's) in other threads step up and be honest as to why you feel that way. You know who you are. This is not an invite for an argument, but a respectful interchange.

Thank you

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Dear Texasgirl1000:

SDN is a site to discuss career and other issues for those who are practicing or planning to practice one of the core careers identified by SDN. These 7 core careers do not include nursing, which has other websites dedicated to it. This forum (practicing physicians) in particular, is designed specifically for practicing attending physicians to discuss their particular career issues. It is not really intended to carry forward some of the debates you see in other forums.

So, your post, as focused on the statements of residents and medical students is unlikely to generate much interest in this forum. Furthermore, many more people read any post than would ever choose to respond, even if it was on the proper forum.

Now, asking people who have written negative things about any group of people to explain themselves on an internet forum is also unlikely to generate much helpful response. Read the mid-level anesthesia forum to get an idea of how that usually goes.

In terms of your question, I work in an NICU where, I believe, nurses are given tremendous respect. I'm very sorry that you hate nursing as most of the nurses I work with, although at times tired and stressed by their job, value it for its importance for the children and families for whom they care. In over 25 years in a primary NICU setting, I can count the major arguments between doctors and nurses that I've seen on my fingers. I've seen much more vicious fights, and much more common fights, amongst physicians. Heck, that happens all the time. But doctors and nurses in almost any ICU setting greatly respect each other. You should not also assume that all doctors dislike "mid-level" providers such as NPs. Differences in politics, such as the role of the DNP, are not the same as disliking or disrespecting NPs.

Regards

OBP

 

[JStephens]

Tx,

This is the internet, you can't take things too seriously. People reply to threads that interest them. The fact that people may have viewed (not actually read) your thread and did not reply does not mean they hate nurses, it may mean that they just aren't willing to engage in conversation about the topic. I don't really think that many people hate nurses. For me, I hate the fact that some nurses are attempting to encroach on a physician's area of practice. (CRNA, and some DNP). I don't like nurses that aren't happy with being a nurse and feel that they're entitled and capable to do whatever a doctor can do when they aren't. Notwithstanding, I think nurses are a valuable asset and I think they are urgently necessary and their work should be respected as such. I just don't agree (like) militant CRNA's, and Dr. Nurses who really think they're qualified to be physicians with no medical school or residency training.

 

[Texasgirl1000]

Tx,

This is the internet, you can't take things too seriously. People reply to threads that interest them. The fact that people may have viewed (not actually read) your thread and did not reply does not mean they hate nurses, it may mean that they just aren't willing to engage in conversation about the topic. I don't really think that many people hate nurses. For me, I hate the fact that some nurses are attempting to encroach on a physician’s area of practice. (CRNA, and some DNP). I don’t like nurses that aren’t happy with being a nurse and feel that they’re entitled and capable to do whatever a doctor can do when they aren’t. Notwithstanding, I think nurses are a valuable asset and I think they are urgently necessary and their work should be respected as such. I just don’t agree (like) militant CRNA’s, and Dr. Nurses who really think they’re qualified to be physicians with no medical school or residency training.

JStephens,

Thank you for your honest reply. I absolutely agree with you. While I have been an ER nurse for 15 years and feel I am very good at my job, I am a nurse, not a trained physician. I actually hate it when nurses act like they know just as much as a physician, and challenge or question an MD's orders...it makes me cringe. When a nurse is not happy with his/her role I do feel they should change their role, not act as if they have a role they do not. I do have a question though about what you said regarding DNP's and CRNA's. While I understand what you are saying regarding some DNP's or CRNA's, why is it MD's don't take issue with AA's and PA's? They are midlevels as well, and I have personally worked with more than a few PA's who verbalize that they know as much as a doctor...why are only nurse midlevels viewed in a bad light? I know technically NP's and CRNA's can function independently in some states (though I don't know many that do). Is that the issue? PA's and AA's have to practice under an MD and NP's and CRNA's do not? My sister is a CRNA, and she is not trying to usurp a doctors authority, she is just trying to have a job she enjoys and make a living. She works with an anesthesia group, and does not want to function independently because she realizes that she is not an anesthesiologist.

Thanks

 

[Texasgirl1000]

Dear Texasgirl1000:

SDN is a site to discuss career and other issues for those who are practicing or planning to practice one of the core careers identified by SDN. These 7 core careers do not include nursing, which has other websites dedicated to it. This forum (practicing physicians) in particular, is designed specifically for practicing attending physicians to discuss their particular career issues. It is not really intended to carry forward some of the debates you see in other forums.

So, your post, as focused on the statements of residents and medical students is unlikely to generate much interest in this forum. Furthermore, many more people read any post than would ever choose to respond, even if it was on the proper forum.

Now, asking people who have written negative things about any group of people to explain themselves on an internet forum is also unlikely to generate much helpful response. Read the mid-level anesthesia forum to get an idea of how that usually goes.

Dear OBP

I have read the mid-level anesthesia forum, so I understand what you are saying. A big argument is certainly not my goal. I apologize for posting in the wrong area. Thank you for your reply.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Since this is not the appropriate forum, I will close this thread (BTW, I read the post last night but was too tired to post any meaningful response; it had nothing to do with any negative feelings about nurses).

 

[Texasgirl1000]

Since this is not the appropriate forum, I will close this thread (BTW, I read the post last night but was too tired to post any meaningful response; it had nothing to do with any negative feelings about nurses).

Dear Winged Scapula,

Thanks for the reply. Could this be moved to a more appropriate area? I would still like to see people's thoughts on this topic.

Thank you