Who gets into Harvard med?

[premedi-kid]

Any ideas? Seems to me that in order to get into the most prestigious med school in the world you would need to:
1) save a country in Africa
2) be a rhodes scholar or
3) Have lots and lots of money.

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[Sunnygirl]

as a first year student at harvard, i definitely feel that my classmates are amazing -- there are a handful of rhodes scholars and there are people who have done truly special work in developing areas like Africa... but there are also many of us who got in without having such big accomplishments (and believe me, i didn't get in on my grades either!) basically the most important thing to get into harvard is to convince the admissions committee that you are going to be a leader in medicine in the future -- whether that is by innovative bench or clinical research, by working in developing countries or underpriveleged communities here in the US, by being part of the debates about the medical profession (cultural competency, quality of care, medical ethics), by working at the intersection of health care and politics, etc.

and by the way, there is no one i know here who could have gotten in because they have lots of money -- everyone is going to be in debt together! (probably no matter where you go, unless you are lucky enough to have a state school to go to)

 

[Tezzie]

Really? Is that why 10% of Harvard grads matched for radiology and 8% for dermatology?

Saving the world ... one pimple at a time.

 

[Cerberus]

People from princeton and duke seem to get into Harvard.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by Tezzie
Really? Is that why 10% of Harvard grads matched for radiology and 8% for dermatology?

Saving the world ... one pimple at a time.

woah 18% for rads and derm? I wonder what theyre %-age for anesthesiology and opthamology are.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Since we're talking about the #1 med school in the world, I don't think it's really possible to distinguish yourself from the other applicants through academic factors (grades, MCAT score, etc). I'm pretty sure the vast majority of applicants all have stellar GPAs and MCAT scores. I think the ones who were lucky enough to be admitted got in because they distinguished themselves in their ECs/research. As the poster above mentioned, going above and beyond in your ECs will definitely make you stand out compared to the rest of the premed robots who did the following: a) volunteered at their local hospital/clinic b) did research in a bio/chem laboratory at their school c) did both of the previous ECs mentioned. Also...please take this advice to heart because I really wish someone would have told me this when I started my undergrad program...STAY AWAY FROM ANY CAMPUS "PREMED" ORGANIZATIONS...or any other type of "honors premed" organizations. This type of activity will not separate you from anyone else applying nor will it impress anyone on any adcom. If you really love talking with other premeds and getting together for a premed-fest...go ahead and join. But there are lots of ECs out there that aren't nearly as shallow and empty as a "premed society." Most of these "clubs" don't even do any sort of community service/service for their school/service for anyone...it's just premeds getting together and talking about "premed issues"...which is pretty useless if ya ask me. Well, that's my $0.02.

 

[Street Philosopher]

I agree.

 

[TTSD]

Amen. My premed organization was filled with just ticket punchers. When I tried to get any serious work done I was met almost with open rebellion. Instead of accepting the presidency I just quit and it was nice that the school administration tried to get me to go back the next year under their support with an officer corp I didn't know.. but I essentially muttered a four letter word and a two lettered no.

 

[Giving My .02]

I had a friend that went to Undergrad at Yale, & she was like I have no idea how she actually got in. She said there is a rumor that the admissions office places a lot of "possible" applicant applications in a box & pushes them down the stairs. The first file to finish is the lucky person. Now, if Harvard Medical School did that, I would probably have a chance!!

 

[CrazyCarl]

Originally posted by BerkeleyPremed
please take this advice to heart because I really wish someone would have told me this when I started my undergrad program...STAY AWAY FROM ANY CAMPUS "PREMED" ORGANIZATIONS...or any other type of "honors premed" organizations. This type of activity will not separate you from anyone else applying nor will it impress anyone on any adcom. If you really love talking with other premeds and getting together for a premed-fest...go ahead and join. But there are lots of ECs out there that aren't nearly as shallow and empty as a "premed society." Most of these "clubs" don't even do any sort of community service/service for their school/service for anyone...it's just premeds getting together and talking about "premed issues"...which is pretty useless if ya ask me. Well, that's my $0.02.

I agree that 95% of people in these organizations do not get much out of the experience, but they are definitely worth joining if you decide to make the most of it. If the club at your school is apathetic or uninventive, get involved, get elected, and start running the club the way you think is best. You will have dozens of (usually responsible and committed) pre-meds at your disposal, at the very least. Radically readjust the mission, scrap the discussion groups you dislike, and direct all that people-power toward community service or something similarly useful.

No one will be impressed that you joined club X. They might be impressed if you can say "I thought club X could do more, so I got myself elected president and transformed it into a worthwhile organization."

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Originally posted by CrazyCarl
I agree that 95% of people in these organizations do not get much out of the experience, but they are definitely worth joining if you decide to make the most of it. If the club at your school is apathetic or uninventive, get involved, get elected, and start running the club the way you think is best. You will have dozens of (usually responsible and committed) pre-meds at your disposal, at the very least. Radically readjust the mission, scrap the discussion groups you dislike, and direct all that people-power toward community service or something similarly useful.

No one will be impressed that you joined club X. They might be impressed if you can say "I thought club X could do more, so I got myself elected president and transformed it into a worthwhile organization."

I'm currently the founder and president of my own outreach organization on my campus. As for joining the premed organization on my campus...I'd rather steer clear of the students in here that would actually join that oragization. I'd rather not get involved in any of their "activities" because I already know how meaningless they are and I'd rather spend that time working with my organization...an organization that actually serves people in underpriveleged areas.

 

[Street Philosopher]

On the other hand I'm highly suspicious of people who establish new organizations when there are already a large number of organizations doing similar things.

 

[periodic]

Amen Street Philosopher. I knew some kids who started up a political/intl affairs journal (when publications already existed that they could have worked under) pretty much just to bolster their law school apps. It was distasteful.

Giving my .02...that's really not true at all But the level of subjectivity that admissions comes down to may simulate that kind of randomness.

I have personal beef with whoring yourself out to the pre-med mentality. Some schools will be able to see through it anyway, whether by your interview, essay, or recs. And, you've wasted time and effort doing things that you don't even think are worthwhile.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Originally posted by Street Philosopher
On the other hand I'm highly suspicious of people who establish new organizations when there are already a large number of organizations doing similar things.

Glad you made that comment without even knowing what my organization does...lol. If I actually stated in this thread the mission statement for my organization...you could've easily come back by saying.."Oh, but Organizations X, Y, and Z also do the same thing. Why didn't you just work for them?" There are 100000 different meanings of "outreach" (this could include anything from providing educational services to those in underprivileged areas, providing free legal assistance to those underprivileged areas, providing HIV/AIDS awareness programs, helping the underprivileged with job placement, setting up reading programs for kids in underprivileged areas, etc ..the list goes on). Yes, there are organizations that do all of the aforementioned things...but I wouldn't have created an organization on my campus if there was no demand for what I do (because that line of work is already being done by someone else). In addition, campus administrations are usually bureacratic and won't allow a group to register if that group is doing the same thing as another group already registered...the reason for this is $$ of course...being a registered student organization means you are eligible to receive funding from the administration. If they can save those funds for another group that's brand new and is not a copycot...trust me, the funds will go the group with the more original mission. So please ..do tell me...what organizations do the same thing as my organization? (good luck on answering this...because all I mentioned above was that my group is an "outreach" organization...this could mean 1 of 18473298473 different things).


P.S.: Does UCLA offer any courses in reasoning/argumentation? If so, did you take this course/an equivalent course?

 

[Street Philosopher]

BerkeleyPremed,
Where in my statement did I refer to you specifically? I made a general statement because of something you brought to my attention.

And yes, UCLA does offer courses in argumentation and reasoning. I would refer you to some, but I think you might need anger management classes a little more.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Originally posted by md_hopeful21
Don't you goto Berkeley? As far as I know there's a million clubs (2 of every kind on the planet) here. And another thing, the berkeley campus doesn't care if theres two clubs that do the same thing as long as it has 2 cosigners. I know about 50 premeds here who started their own clubs and added 3 of their friends to be the other officers. What the school does mind is funding the clubs, and the school for sure doesn't fund all the clubs that it approves of. Premeds on this campus are funny, and every year that passes make them seem even funnier to me.

-------------------------------------------------------
Berkeley class of 2004

"And another thing, the berkeley campus doesn't care if theres two clubs that do the same as long as it has 2 cosigners." Umm...wrong. First of all, all registered groups need 4 total signatories...not 2 cosigners. Secondly, registering an organization at Berkeley requires more than just 4 students willing to file paperwork. As for the Berkeley campus caring about multiple clubs doing the same thing...um...yes...it does care. Don't believe me...go to the Office of Student Life at Sproul Hall and ask for yourself. I went to one of this year's Student Group Orientations hosted by the Office of Student Life and this issue was already addressed.

First of all, there's only so much funding to go around...ALL student groups practically rely on ASUC funding or other funding from the campus...a student group on a college campus probably will not receive donations from private foundations, federal grant money, corporate donations, private grants, etc. The reason for this is because student organizations on college campuse do not have TAX EXEMPT status... in other words, if a corporation donates X dollars to the student group...they cannot have X dollars deducted from their corporate taxes. In order to gain tax-exempt status, you need to be recognized as a non-profit organization. You can say..."But they can charge dues!!"..um...yeah, college kids are just dying to give what little money they have to student organizations. As for the "million clubs" at UC Berkeley (2 of every kind on the planet)...I know it might be hard to fathom...but it is possible to come up with an original mission statement (unique from the 3284739243 already out there) and put together a group hard-working and dedicated students willing to devote time to your club.

Not only was I able to establish my first chapter at this school...I also got a faculty sponsor who loved the idea and is willing to work with us. As for the "50 premeds" you know who started an organization here...umm...right...the vast majority of the premeds I know are either a) volunteering at the local hospital (Alta Bates or Oakland Children's Hospital) b) doing research with a professor or c) both of the previously mentioned ECs. Running a campus organization is a huge time committment...and there are lots of bureacratic hassles I had to go through (and am still in the process of going through).

"Premeds on this campus are funny, and every year that passes make them seem even funnier to me."
Um...sure...whatever you say.

 

[Tezzie]

ECs are nowadays the way to make yourself stand out BUT ...

When i was in South Africa doing research i must have came across at least another 20-25 other American pre-meds (and from what i heard there were plenty more). When my brother was in eastern Europe involved in research and volunteering he met at least 30 American pre-meds.

So the game is just getting tougher and tougher. Truly stellar ECs and research nowadays have gotten to the point of being "common". Everybody knows that the words "HIV" and "Africa" look great on your application so more and more people are doing it.

I think though that the people who *TRULY* believe in what they are doing are the ones that the adcoms admit. If someone like Shantuwhatever who namecalls people on his publication "obese" and then goes to do community service, chances are the adcoms will look right through him and release that the only reason he did it was for his application.

I never ever did anything or participated in a group that i didn't share it's values and trusted their community action.

 

[Street Philosopher]

Originally posted by Tezzie
So the game is just getting tougher and tougher. Truly stellar ECs and research nowadays have gotten to the point of being "common". Everybody knows that the words "HIV" and "Africa" look great on your application so more and more people are doing it.

yeah, pretty soon you're gonna have premeds doing clerical paperwork on the moon

 

[8744]

Man, being a pompous ass must be a requirement for getting accepted to Harvard Medical School.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Originally posted by Tezzie
ECs are nowadays the way to make yourself stand out BUT ...

When i was in South Africa doing research i must have came across at least another 20-25 other American pre-meds (and from what i heard there were plenty more). When my brother was in eastern Europe involved in research and volunteering he met at least 30 American pre-meds.

So the game is just getting tougher and tougher. Truly stellar ECs and research nowadays have gotten to the point of being "common". Everybody knows that the words "HIV" and "Africa" look great on your application so more and more people are doing it.

I think though that the people who *TRULY* believe in what they are doing are the ones that the adcoms admit. If someone like Shantuwhatever who namecalls people on his publication "obese" and then goes to do community service, chances are the adcoms will look right through him and release that the only reason he did it was for his application.

I never ever did anything or participated in a group that i didn't share it's values and trusted their community action.

Oh...I'm sure adcoms can easily tell who did volunteering in **insert 3rd world country here** just for the resume-padder and who did the volunteering in **insert same 3rd world country here** because they actually wanted to do so. Any student who spends a week-1 month "volunteering" in a 3rd world country should really have their "volunteer" experience questioned at the interview. I'm sure adcoms would know that students do this sort of thing just so they can pad their resumes...the ones who do it because they actually want to would be the people who have spent 2 years in the Peace Corps working in the public health sector, sustainable agriculture, or education sector.

 

[indiamacbean]

BerkeleyPremed,
Not to be picky, but if your organization is indeed unique and beneficial perhaps you could name it and the type of outreach you have done. Clearly you have spent a lot of time on this and should have something to show, right? Having grown up in Berkeley and having parents on the faculty, I have seen a billion ineffective clubs/organizations come and go. I don't really care if something crashes if the original intent and effort was sincere but it does piss me off when people get ASUC funding for duplicate efforts or organizations designed only to make their participants look good. I'm not saying that this is you, I'm just curious what you're doing.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Originally posted by indiamacbean
BerkeleyPremed,
Not to be picky, but if your organization is indeed unique and beneficial perhaps you could name it and the type of outreach you have done. Clearly you have spent a lot of time on this and should have something to show, right? Having grown up in Berkeley and having parents on the faculty, I have seen a billion ineffective clubs/organizations come and go. I don't really care if something crashes if the original intent and effort was sincere but it does piss me off when people get ASUC funding for duplicate efforts or organizations designed only to make their participants look good. I'm not saying that this is you, I'm just curious what you're doing.

"Having grown up in Berkeley..." Awesome...you must be very proud. "...and having parents on the faculty"...Just out of curiosity, how would this give you any extra insight into how campus organizations operate? It's great that your parents were on faculty...but exactly how would that give you extra knowledge about registered student groups? Even faculty sponsors aren't even "involved" with registered groups here...students have to do that...my faculty sponsor just advises us because she has way more experience with working with non-profit oragnizations than I do...however, the campus organization is not her reponsibility at all...that's on me and the other signatories...

As for me divulging the name of my organization on this site...umm..sorry..not happening...if I do that...anyone can just go to the website for the Office of Student Life, plug the name of the organization in search, and pull up my full name and the full names of the rest of my signatories...and I'd rather remain anonymous...but I can tell you what my organization is all about...we're training and sending out volunteers to underprivileged high schools to give educational workshops on applying to college...we also offer one-on-one mentoring through the college admissions process and free college counseling which ranges from helping students narrow down a list of schools to apply to, helping students work out financial aid packages, applying for need-based and merit-based scholarships, and helping students make one of the most important decisions of their lives (choosing which college they'll attend)...

yes...I know...there are similar organizations out there..however, none offer one-on-one, free college counseling from college students at top schools (I'm working on founding another chapter of my organization at Columbia University because I know a student at Barnard College who is interested in working with us...I already have a guy at Northwestern University who is working with us)...normally, private college counseling can cost $50/hour..and some private college counseling services charge much more...we're doing this for free..as for relying on the college counselors at the underprivileged, public high schools to actually do their job and help these kids...forget about it..it's not happening...but thanks for asking about my organization before bashing it...best of luck to you in academics and med school admissions..have a goodnight

 

[indiamacbean]

I really wasn't bashing on your organization. God knows that disadvantaged kids in public east bay high schools need all the help they can get. My info on the running of student groups at Berkeley comes not only from the folks but also siblings who attended Cal ans was very very active in running outreach and social service organizations. that is sort of irrelevant I guess and it sounds like you're doing good work. that is the kind of stuff many interviewers love. I hope you interview at Pitt because it is a great school in a great city and there is a lot of support for outreach programs. cheers.

--PittMed2007--

 

[Newquagmire]

Originally posted by premedi-kid
Any ideas? Seems to me that in order to get into the most prestigious med school in the world you would need to:
1) save a country in Africa
2) be a rhodes scholar or
3) Have lots and lots of money.

That's not entirely true. The HMS student I know is only a churchill scholar...

 

[premedi-kid]

So how many different scholars are there?

We have 1. rhodes
2. churchill
3. MacGyver?

 

[calebho501]

Just to add to the decision, I wanna tell you guys something my counsellor told me: Your EC's doesn't neccessarily have to be working with the poorest people in the most ghetto areas, not they have to be helping to build hospitals in Iraq or something. Something helping your fellow classmates are already very meaningful (Like peer tutoring, peer helpline, etc.)

As to a message saying that Harvard looks for leaders in medicine, I think I agree to that too. In fact, when I was at Pritzker, my interviewer told me after the interview that Pritzker looks for people who wanna do more than clinical care, whether it's helping to design health education programs, shaping health policies, or leading researches.