Which Caribbean School is better (besides the top 4)?

[vhinrich]

So I'm thinking of applying to the following colleges:

American University of Antigua (AUA)

International American University (IAU)

Medical University of the Americas (MUA)

St. James School of Medicine (SJSM)

St. Matthews Medical School (SMMS)

Windsor University

Xavier University

Out of these 7 universities, which one do you think is the best?

Consider their overall education quality, effectiveness of the administration, USMLE preparation, residency match rate, etc.

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[RussianJoo]

Aua

 

[demayette]

So I'm thinking of applying to the following colleges:

American University of Antigua (AUA)

International American University (IAU)

Medical University of the Americas (MUA)

St. James School of Medicine (SJSM)

St. Matthews Medical School (SMMS)

Windsor University

Xavier University

Out of these 7 universities, which one do you think is the best?

Consider their overall education quality, effectiveness of the administration, USMLE preparation, residency match rate, etc.

MUA by far...

 

[JonathanMD]

Smu.

 

[schandan13]

AUA, wad

 

[PteFabulous]

Why are you not applying to the big 4?

 

[vhinrich]

Why are you not applying to the big 4?

Because my mcats are low and my gpa isn't all that great either (cGPA~3.0, sGPA~2.8)

 

[PteFabulous]

Because my mcats are low and my gpa isn't all that great either (cGPA~3.0, sGPA~2.8)

You should at least try. If you get rejected then try for a lower tier school. I had a low gpa and low mcat and I'm at Ross and doing just fine. Of course Ross has cut its admissions in half so it has become more competitive. You are better off applying to a top 4 school, and getting into one of the pre med programs (foundation of medicine, MERP) then going to a lower tier school.

 

[vhinrich]

You should at least try. If you get rejected then try for a lower tier school. I had a low gpa and low mcat and I'm at Ross and doing just fine. Of course Ross has cut its admissions in half so it has become more competitive. You are better off applying to a top 4 school, and getting into one of the pre med programs (foundation of medicine, MERP) then going to a lower tier school.

What is MERP? How does it work?

 

[PteFabulous]

What is MERP? How does it work?

MERP is a program at ROSS for the candidates that the school is unsure of. It's a three month long course (I think), where you learn about physiology, anatomy, and not really sure what else, and if you pass it you get admitted into ross. It's not something you apply for directly but it's like a second chance for students that don't get straight admission.

You can find more information about Merp, and all the Caribbean schools on the valuemd forums.

 

[vhinrich]

Dude, u dont understand

I got 14O on the MCATs, they'll laugh me outta town with that score

 

[Aphtalyfe]

Dude, u dont understand

I got 14O on the MCATs, they'll laugh me outta town with that score

Take a course and retake the MCAT?

 

[vhinrich]

Take a course and retake the MCAT?

i could but then i'd be wasting more time...

by the way, can you transfer into the top 4 from schools like AUA, MUA, or SJSM? like if I have low mcats but my grades from the first year of med school were really good?

 

[medflava]

So I'm thinking of applying to the following colleges:

American University of Antigua (AUA)

International American University (IAU)

Medical University of the Americas (MUA)

St. James School of Medicine (SJSM)

St. Matthews Medical School (SMMS)

Windsor University

Xavier University

Out of these 7 universities, which one do you think is the best?

Consider their overall education quality, effectiveness of the administration, USMLE preparation, residency match rate, etc.

I go to SJSM, I know people from Xavier in Bonaire, and I know someone from Windsor. I suggest you avoid all three if you can. I go to SJSM because of the tuition, it's the lowest out of all the three and I know people who got 99s in the USMLE who graduated from SJSM. Also, SJSM has more accreditation that the Xavier Bonaire and Windsor. However, if you can then choose St. Matthews or AUA. But if you're concerned about money and you don't care about practicing in California then go to SJSM.

 

[medflava]

You should at least try. If you get rejected then try for a lower tier school. I had a low gpa and low mcat and I'm at Ross and doing just fine. Of course Ross has cut its admissions in half so it has become more competitive. You are better off applying to a top 4 school, and getting into one of the pre med programs (foundation of medicine, MERP) then going to a lower tier school.

Trust me MERP is a waste of money, energy, and time. I know several people who went there and they hated it. After hearing about they went through with ROSS I'm glad I didn't go there.

 

[Aphtalyfe]

i could but then i'd be wasting more time...

by the way, can you transfer into the top 4 from schools like AUA, MUA, or SJSM? like if I have low mcats but my grades from the first year of med school were really good?

You would be wasting like 3 months... to go to a school with 90%+ usmle step 1 pass and 85%+ match lists.

As opposed to... far worse.

It's very unlikely you will be allowed to transfer from a 2nd tier carib school to a 1st tier carib school.

With a 14 on your mcat your chance of success on step 1 is also called into question.

 

[ahavah]

i could but then i'd be wasting more time...

by the way, can you transfer into the top 4 from schools like AUA, MUA, or SJSM? like if I have low mcats but my grades from the first year of med school were really good?

Okay yeah that's pretty low, but I would not be in a huge rush to attend or even apply to any med school with an MCAT score that low. I agree with Aphtalyfe just save and dish out the $1500-$2000 for a prep course or study, study, study on your own for the Jan MCAT and anticipate applying for Fall 2011. You'll have your scores back by Feb/Mar... if you performed poorly take it again in May.

I think many of us linger on time and "man... I won't be finished with med school until I'm 30 at this rate... then there's 3-8yrs of residency and maybe 1-3 in fellowships", but medicine is a life long committment that starts in the classroom so don't worry about it. Besides foreign medical graduates are already at a disadvantage for U.S. residency spots so you might as well do yourself a favor and go to one of the better carib schools.

 

[vhinrich]

Not to be rude, but with a 14, doesn't the idea of you being a physician seem far fetched? Some people, despite their dreams and good intentions, are not meant to be physicians.

i see ur point and i see why someone would question that. i have a damn good reason for getting that score but i'm not gonna sit here and make excuses. I got what I got and I have to live with it.

Here's how I see it: If I don't do so well in the 1st/2nd years of med school, then I would know that medicine is not for me. I drop out and go on with my life. But if I do well in the first two years and do well on the usmle's, then I know that I have a chance and I complete med school...

 

[medflava]

You would be wasting like 3 months... to go to a school with 90%+ usmle step 1 pass and 85%+ match lists.

As opposed to... far worse.

I know someone personally who failed the USMLE and she graduated from ROSS..it's all about the individual and not the school...people from small schools get 99 too.

 

[vhinrich]

If you have an extenuating circumstance that lead to the poor score, you should definately retake it. Don't make the mistake of going to the Caribbean if you can get into an American med school.

It's not as easy as starting and dropping out, 2 years of tuition with no job prospects makes loan repayment difficult.

The only reason i'm hesitant is because even if i do well on the MCATs (let's say 40), my gpa is a big obstacle (cGPA 3.0, sGPA 2.8). Usually US schools won't consider even reviewing my file due to my GPA...

I have one year of tuition covered so i will know within one year whether or not med school is for me. If I don't do so well in the first year, it'll be 40k down the drain but at least i can live with myself knowing that i tried medicine but it wasn't for me

it's one of those stupid risks that im willing to take and ready to accept the consequences, good or bad

 

[Aphtalyfe]

I know someone personally who failed the USMLE and she graduated from ROSS..it's all about the individual and not the school...people from small schools get 99 too.

Like I said.

90%+ first time pass. That means there are 10% who don't pass.

Compared to other Caribbean schools with less than 60% pass rates, and the inability to practice in 2 or more states.

The choice should be obvious.

 

[vhinrich]

it's all about the individual and not the school...people from small schools get 99 too.

couldn't agree more...

 

[PteFabulous]

Well if you really do have a good reason why you did so crappy on your MCAT then maybe you should try and explain that to one of the big 4. I know people who have gotten in with really crappy mcats but with legitimate reasons.

Even though it is ultimately about the student, attending a school that has a reputation for high usmle pass scores and more importantly a school that people have actually heard of helps.

But if you don't want to even try, well whatever.
Out of the list I vote for MUA (because it's somehow connected to SABA from what I've heard), or AUA.

 

[vhinrich]

Well if you really do have a good reason why you did so crappy on your MCAT then maybe you should try and explain that to one of the big 4. I know people who have gotten in with really crappy mcats but with legitimate reasons.

Even though it is ultimately about the student, attending a school that has a reputation for high usmle pass scores and more importantly a school that people have actually heard of helps.

But if you don't want to even try, well whatever.
Out of the list I vote for MUA (because it's somehow connected to SABA from what I've heard), or AUA.

I did apply to couple of big 4, I'll see what comes out of it.

AUA, MUA, and SABA are all owned and operated by the same company, R3 Education Inc.

 

[LEVAMISOLE]

I did apply to couple of big 4, I'll see what comes out of it.

AUA, MUA, and SABA are all owned and operated by the same company, R3 Education Inc.

AUA isnt part of R3. R3=Saba, MUA, and SMU

 

[Gfliptastic]

The only reason i'm hesitant is because even if i do well on the MCATs (let's say 40), my gpa is a big obstacle (cGPA 3.0, sGPA 2.8). Usually US schools won't consider even reviewing my file due to my GPA...

I have one year of tuition covered so i will know within one year whether or not med school is for me. If I don't do so well in the first year, it'll be 40k down the drain but at least i can live with myself knowing that i tried medicine but it wasn't for me

it's one of those stupid risks that im willing to take and ready to accept the consequences, good or bad

Completely WRONG!!!

My dad died my sophomore year of college. I graduated w/ an almost identical gpa. I walked into the nearest med school (University of IL) and sat down w/ an admissions counselor. Asked him what I needed to do. He said, if you get a 33 on the MCAT, we will interview you.

A high MCAT score will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS trump a low gpa. Your score just has to be tweaked a lil higher than "normal" applicants. If your GPA is one standard deviation beyond "normal" you need to be one standard deviation beyond "normal" w/ your MCAT.

I've been interviewed 5x's! At US med schools. If you read what I posted in the Reality Check thread, I was considered quite competitive at US allopathic and osteopathic schools. I just somehow procrastinated every cycle. And so I'm going to Ross.

The MCAT IS indicative of what you can do in med school. The BS section does correlate to how you will do in med school. The VR section correlates to your Board score. Kaplan (whom I worked for) and med schools know this.

Step 1 is 7 hours of 350 MCQ's. (1 hour of 50 MCQ's x 7 hours) It makes the MCAT look like a cake walk. It is easily 5-6x's the amount of information than the MCAT uses if not more.

Take the MCAT over. Go for a US med school. Or at least a big 4 Caribbean school.

 

[dragonfly99]

I would not be in a huge rush to attend or even apply to any med school with an MCAT score that low. I agree with Aphtalyfe just save and dish out the $1500-$2000 for a prep course or study, study, study on your own for the Jan MCAT...

I think many of us linger on time and "man... I won't be finished with med school until I'm 30 at this rate... then there's 3-8yrs of residency and maybe 1-3 in fellowships", but medicine is a life long committment that starts in the classroom so don't worry about it. Besides foreign medical graduates are already at a disadvantage for U.S. residency spots so you might as well do yourself a favor and go to one of the better carib schools.

This is true. 100% true.

 

[dragonfly99]

I have one year of tuition covered so i will know within one year whether or not med school is for me. If I don't do so well in the first year, it'll be 40k down the drain but at least i can live with myself knowing that i tried medicine but it wasn't for me

it's one of those stupid risks that im willing to take and ready to accept the consequences, good or bad

If you have enough money for 1 year med school tuition, then you have enough money to spend a year in a low paying job (like medical research or clinical volunteering or Americorps or something) and for a good MCAT prep course, and perhaps to take a couple upper level science courses to drag up your GPA. If you do that, you might be able to get into a DO school in the US, or one of the 2-3 Carib schools that is even worth considering.

 

[dragonfly99]

It's not as easy as starting and dropping out, 2 years of tuition with no job prospects makes loan repayment difficult.

This is true. Also, you may not "flunk" out in year 1 or 2, but if you aren't well prepared when you go, you may falter on the USMLE Step 2 (which is taking during 3rd or 4th year of med school) and/or the clinical years, after you REALLY have spent a lot of money. The low MCAT and lowish GPA should make you reflect that you need to prepare more for med school...everyone says, "Oh I'll do better once I get there!". But you better be damn sure. Otherwise there are other health care careers that pay similarly (not as much as a plastic surgeon or derm, but similar to say, family practice) and require less years of training and less pain/studying.

 

[someone1]

This is true. Also, you may not "flunk" out in year 1 or 2, but if you aren't well prepared when you go, you may falter on the USMLE Step 2 (which is taking during 3rd or 4th year of med school) and/or the clinical years, after you REALLY have spent a lot of money. The low MCAT and lowish GPA should make you reflect that you need to prepare more for med school...everyone says, "Oh I'll do better once I get there!". But you better be damn sure. Otherwise there are other health care careers that pay similarly (not as much as a plastic surgeon or derm, but similar to say, family practice) and require less years of training and less pain/studying.[/QUOTE]

like pharmacy.

 

[NoFutureROSSMD]

I graduated from Ross in 2005 and have completed all the steps. I have not been able to get a residency and have been in touch with Ross about it. OF course, ROSS stands for Rely On Self Study for Ross. When I contacted them I found out that many others are not getting spots. Since, I have been out so long, I dont even get an interview as of the last match for 2010. I applied across the board for 200 programs and got no interviews. I never failed at class on the island or in Clinical Rotations. I got 12 letters of recommendation, just to be sure I could pick the best ones to send. My premed was suitable to get into a US medical school, meaning I had completed all the courses. I did only have a 3.5 GPA which is not competitive enough for US medical schools.

I am not here to complain, I just want you to be informed.

This is the reason why Ross has cut back on students, to many were not getting a residency. So, be ware of a school that wants to get bigger and bigger. The US medical schools size are very much fixed over time. Don't believe me, please check this fact out. Call ross and ask how many do not get a residency after getting the MD and even completing the Step I, II and III. If they can not answer you, well draw your own conclusion.

Good luck, and choose wisely.

 

[JonathanMD]

I graduated from Ross in 2005 and have completed all the steps. I have not been able to get a residency and have been in touch with Ross about it. OF course, ROSS stands for Rely On Self Study for Ross. When I contacted them I found out that many others are not getting spots. Since, I have been out so long, I dont even get an interview as of the last match for 2010. I applied across the board for 200 programs and got no interviews. I never failed at class on the island or in Clinical Rotations. I got 12 letters of recommendation, just to be sure I could pick the best ones to send. My premed was suitable to get into a US medical school, meaning I had completed all the courses. I did only have a 3.5 GPA which is not competitive enough for US medical schools.

I am not here to complain, I just want you to be informed.

This is the reason why Ross has cut back on students, to many were not getting a residency. So, be ware of a school that wants to get bigger and bigger. The US medical schools size are very much fixed over time. Don't believe me, please check this fact out. Call ross and ask how many do not get a residency after getting the MD and even completing the Step I, II and III. If they can not answer you, well draw your own conclusion.

Good luck, and choose wisely.

That's a little disturbing.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[demayette]

I graduated from Ross in 2005 and have completed all the steps. I have not been able to get a residency and have been in touch with Ross about it. OF course, ROSS stands for Rely On Self Study for Ross. When I contacted them I found out that many others are not getting spots. Since, I have been out so long, I dont even get an interview as of the last match for 2010. I applied across the board for 200 programs and got no interviews. I never failed at class on the island or in Clinical Rotations. I got 12 letters of recommendation, just to be sure I could pick the best ones to send. My premed was suitable to get into a US medical school, meaning I had completed all the courses. I did only have a 3.5 GPA which is not competitive enough for US medical schools.

I am not here to complain, I just want you to be informed.

This is the reason why Ross has cut back on students, to many were not getting a residency. So, be ware of a school that wants to get bigger and bigger. The US medical schools size are very much fixed over time. Don't believe me, please check this fact out. Call ross and ask how many do not get a residency after getting the MD and even completing the Step I, II and III. If they can not answer you, well draw your own conclusion.

Good luck, and choose wisely.

Your story is very depressing. People should see your story so they can make informed decision about med school in the carib (even the big 4). I have seen some people who choose the carib over DO, and I have trouble to understand why would they take such a big risk. Again, if you have a 3.2+ cGPA/sGPA, think first before heading to the caribbean. As for the mcat, you can take it multiple time until you achieve a decent score that would give you a chance at DO schools. To sum up, if you have a decent GPA, study hard for the MCAT so you can avoid putting your career goal or future in jeopardy. Having a 200+k school loan (debt) and not being able to show anything for it is no JOKE.

 

[Euclid]

I graduated from Ross in 2005 and have completed all the steps. I have not been able to get a residency and have been in touch with Ross about it. OF course, ROSS stands for Rely On Self Study for Ross. When I contacted them I found out that many others are not getting spots. Since, I have been out so long, I dont even get an interview as of the last match for 2010. I applied across the board for 200 programs and got no interviews. I never failed at class on the island or in Clinical Rotations. I got 12 letters of recommendation, just to be sure I could pick the best ones to send. My premed was suitable to get into a US medical school, meaning I had completed all the courses. I did only have a 3.5 GPA which is not competitive enough for US medical schools.

I am not here to complain, I just want you to be informed.

This is the reason why Ross has cut back on students, to many were not getting a residency. So, be ware of a school that wants to get bigger and bigger. The US medical schools size are very much fixed over time. Don't believe me, please check this fact out. Call ross and ask how many do not get a residency after getting the MD and even completing the Step I, II and III. If they can not answer you, well draw your own conclusion.

Good luck, and choose wisely.

So what do you do now? I mean, you have an MD, can you at least get into some school in US and maybe redo the MD? Not to the extent of all 4 years, but maybe the last 2? Wow, I was really considering the Caribbean but your case scares me.

 

[demayette]

So what do you do now? I mean, you have an MD, can you at least get into some school in US and maybe redo the MD? Not to the extent of all 4 years, but maybe the last 2? Wow, I was really considering the Caribbean but your case scares me.

Read the post before yours. If you have a decent GPA, try DO school first because it is less risky as far as getting residency. Caribbean should be a last resort.

 

[Gfliptastic]

What are your overall stats?

Granted, I feel for you and your unfortunate situation. But %-ages say your are the exception and not the norm.

93% of all US (school) seniors match. 80% of all DO seniors match. Overarching only 47% of all FMG's match (this includes both USIMG and non-USIMG's).

For the most part, as an FMG your Board score needs to be upwards of 10% higher than an USMG's score for the same residency. There is just that kind of bias toward FMG's. "Passing" isn't necessarily great. ESPECIALLY if you are a FMG.

No matter where you go, set the expectation from yourself to do as well as you possibly can on the Boards.

 

[dragonfly99]

So what do you do now? I mean, you have an MD, can you at least get into some school in US and maybe redo the MD? Not to the extent of all 4 years, but maybe the last 2? Wow, I was really considering the Caribbean but your case scares me.

Most US schools take few, if any,transfers from the Caribbean ever. There are occasional people who transfer in from the Caribbean, but this would usually be after doing a year or two down there, and they often have to start all over at year 1 in the US school. I don't know of anyone who ever did a transfer from year 2 in the Carib (or finished 4 years @Carib) and then transferred into year 3 at a US school. Maybe there's a case where it has happened, but I have never seen one. Don't count on doing that.

 

[Aphtalyfe]

Most US schools take few, if any,transfers from the Caribbean ever. There are occasional people who transfer in from the Caribbean, but this would usually be after doing a year or two down there, and they often have to start all over at year 1 in the US school. I don't know of anyone who ever did a transfer from year 2 in the Carib (or finished 4 years @Carib) and then transferred into year 3 at a US school. Maybe there's a case where it has happened, but I have never seen one. Don't count on doing that.

I know of a few people who transferred into 2nd and 3rd year of US schools after completing 2 years in the Caribbean + Step 1.

Those people score in the top 5% of their class in both med school GPA and Step 1. So yes don't count on doing that.

 

[dragonfly99]

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering whether any of those people transferred to DO schools? How about Canadian med schools? And I am curious which US allopathic schools took the Caribbean transfers.

 

[xLoveNYx]

I graduated from Ross in 2005 and have completed all the steps. I have not been able to get a residency and have been in touch with Ross about it. OF course, ROSS stands for Rely On Self Study for Ross. When I contacted them I found out that many others are not getting spots. Since, I have been out so long, I dont even get an interview as of the last match for 2010. I applied across the board for 200 programs and got no interviews. I never failed at class on the island or in Clinical Rotations. I got 12 letters of recommendation, just to be sure I could pick the best ones to send. My premed was suitable to get into a US medical school, meaning I had completed all the courses. I did only have a 3.5 GPA which is not competitive enough for US medical schools.

I am not here to complain, I just want you to be informed.

This is the reason why Ross has cut back on students, to many were not getting a residency. So, be ware of a school that wants to get bigger and bigger. The US medical schools size are very much fixed over time. Don't believe me, please check this fact out. Call ross and ask how many do not get a residency after getting the MD and even completing the Step I, II and III. If they can not answer you, well draw your own conclusion.

Good luck, and choose wisely.

Just wondering, what area of medicine were you trying to obtain a residency in? is it really that difficult for FMGs to get Family Medicine and Internal Medicine residiencies??

 

[FutureMDiA]

Which one did you end up going to? I am curious. lol

 

[Skip Intro]

FutureMDiA,

You are really turning into the thread necromancer.

I also graduated from Ross in 2005. Funny that the poster says Ross stands for "Rely On Self-Study". We said that back then, too. But, fact is, this is true at all medical schools. If you think you're going to get by with them spoon-feeding you, well... you're going to make a horrible doctor.

Yes, I also graduated in 2005. My pathway was a little different, though. Anesthesia residency at a major U.S. teaching hospital affiliated with a well-established U.S. medical school. Board certification. Living a good life now. I shudder to think what would've happened if I hadn't matched, but even then I had a back-up plan.

So, I don't know what happened to my classmate. Failed one (or more) of the Steps? Applied too narrowly (either in terms of geographic location or limited specialty or not enough programs interviewed/ranked)? But, expecting one person with one post to come back almost five years later and tell you what happened is... well... a little ridiculous.

Maybe I'm wrong.

-Skip

 

[FutureMDiA]

Skip,

When they say "The school has bad rotations". What does that mean? Is that the the school don't help you get rotations? or You don't learn much in roations?

 

[maygog]

Skip,

When they say "The school has bad rotations". What does that mean? Is that the the school don't help you get rotations? or You don't learn much in roations?

Seems as though you are fishing for a premeditated answer to entice you in attending a lower tiered caribbean school. AUC, ROSS and SGU have established clinical sites and have been long trusted. Schools like MUA, AUA, and the rest of the boat load of caribbean schools follow a "green book" rotation list and a lot of the clinical sites may and may not be readily available to lower tiered schools regardless of how high your step score may be. In other words, they cater to AUC, SGU and ROSS students FIRST and fill in the left over spots randomly with students from lower tiered schools in ANY ORDER. This could mean wait times between 6 months to 1 year in between Clinical spots. It could even be worst if the Rotating Hospital and/or State that offers Clinical Rotations has chosen to cut ties with the school - leaving students in the dust.

 

[FutureMDiA]

Damn that sucks. but if the school is affiliated with certain hospitals doesn't it mean they MUST have to give rotations to students from that school if student usmle? i know MUA and AUA are lower tiered schools but there are worst schools in Caribbean than those, right?

 

[bedevilled ben]

Damn that sucks. but if the school is affiliated with certain hospitals doesn't it mean they MUST have to give rotations to students from that school if student usmle? i know MUA and AUA are lower tiered schools but there are worst schools in Caribbean than those, right?

The foreign schools that are "affiliated" with US hospitals pay an obscene amount of money to guarantee their students clerkship spots in MS3 and MS4. US schools typically do not have to pay for their med students to complete clerkships. Here in NY for example, where there are a ton of US medical students as well as Caribbean medical students, this creates a really touchy political dynamic between the different hospital administrations. On the one hand, they want to take as many IMGs as possible, because we pay them a lot of money. On the other hand, they have long-standing relationships with local medical schools that they don't want to offend. As I said, it ends up being a touchy situation with students from both sides stuck in the middle. It's just another one of those little curiosities that IMGs have to navigate along the way to residency.

 

[chicagochildpsych]

Don't do medicine, a 14 Mcat is a joke, you aren't ready