Where should I go for Veterinary Public Health (DVM/MPH)?

[gumtree]

I am really interested in pursuing a veterinary public health program, but I'm unsure of where I should apply! It seems like a lot of vet schools have DVM/MPH dual degree programs now, so I'd love to hear some insight. More specifically I'm interested in infectious diseases and epidemiology. What schools have a strong DVM/MPH program and public health background? I am applying this cycle.

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[elefante7]

In my completely biased opinion, you should definitely go to Wisconsin!!

 

[gumtree]

In my completely biased opinion, you should definitely go to Wisconsin!!

Hey elefante7, why do you think Wisconsin is a good choice? Are you a student there, and are you in the DVM/MPH program or do you have friends who are? I love to hear your reasons!

Also, I should clarify that I posted this in the Veterinary board instead of the Pre-Vet board because I wanted the perspective of current DVM/MPH students or those who know someone doing this, but if there are other pre-vet folks out there who have done their research I'd like to hear your thoughts.

And if there are particular schools that I should avoid, please share!

 

[Pigsfoot]

honestly, you should go to the cheapest school you can get into. You don't want to be in debt forever.

I'm not in the dual program, but some of my friends are at U of I, and it's intense and time consuming, but they tell me they enjoy it.

 

[Pigsfoot]

oh-i also know that you can apply for the MPH at U of I in your first year-so you can apply as a DVM and enroll in the MPH later....

 

[elefante7]

Hey elefante7, why do you think Wisconsin is a good choice? Are you a student there, and are you in the DVM/MPH program or do you have friends who are? I love to hear your reasons!

Also, I should clarify that I posted this in the Veterinary board instead of the Pre-Vet board because I wanted the perspective of current DVM/MPH students or those who know someone doing this, but if there are other pre-vet folks out there who have done their research I'd like to hear your thoughts.

And if there are particular schools that I should avoid, please share!

Yes, I am a student at Wisconsin. I'm currently in my fourth year, and am off on externship on the other side of the country. I am not in the DVM/MPH program, but I do have friends who are. I don't know a ton about it, but I have certainly never heard any complaints about the program, and I think they all like it. If you have specific questions I could try to get them answered for you. I do know that most people do the program between 2nd and 3rd year, and I think they apply for it during 2nd year. I know of someone else that started his MPH after completing vet school.

Going to a cheap school is definitely something to keep in mind as well. On that front, I can happily report that Wisconsin has one of the cheapest (maybe even THE cheapest) out of state tuition in the country.

I definitely don't think there are schools you should avoid. I am sure any school would give you a good education.

Sorry I don't have more specifics about the program, but if you have specific questions about Wisconsin, I can try and answer them or try to find answers. If you just want to know why I like Wisconsin, you can probably find my answer to that several times over if you look at my old posts on this forum. (If you have trouble finding them, let me know).

 

[jmo1012]

honestly, you should go to the cheapest school you can get into. You don't want to be in debt forever.

a lot of schools have dual DVM/MPH or VPH degrees. i think the big thing to look at would be how it affects your time spent in school. when do you complete requirements, cost, etc. for example, VMRCVM just started a dual program a couple of years ago and the only part of the program you have to pay for in addition to the DVM is the last 6 months of the MPH post DVM graduation

 

[Saffine]

Wouldnt there be more job options if you did an MD with epidem or infectious or public health?

Or a Science degree with a PhD in public health?

 

[Pigsfoot]

Saffine-the OP did specifically say they were looking at Veterinary public health programs. There are a lot of opportunities for people that have animal medical knowledge in public health.

 

[Saffine]

Saffine-the OP did specifically say they were looking at Veterinary public health programs.

Yeah, I was just taking a broader view based on outcomes rather than the process: What is the best degree to open up job options in public health?

But maybe it is the degree rather than the job that is attractive.

 

[uoguelph]

The best degrees to open up job options in public healh is a DVM combined with a MPH. Who did they call during the avian flu outbreak? A vet. West Nile virus? A vet. The swine flu epidemic? A vet. and who will they call for the next big epidemic, a vet. Most diseases affecting humans are caused by pathogens that come from animals and human doctors don't know much if anything about these if they do they learned it from a vet.

 

[Saffine]

The best degrees to open up job options in public healh is a DVM combined with a MPH. Who did they call during the avian flu outbreak? A vet. West Nile virus? A vet. The swine flu epidemic? A vet. and who will they call for the next big epidemic, a vet. Most diseases affecting humans are caused by pathogens that come from animals and human doctors don't know much if anything about these if they do they learned it from a vet.

How many vets and how many MD's work with avian influenza?

 

[JosephKnechtDVM]

The best degrees to open up job options in public healh is a DVM combined with a MPH. Who did they call during the avian flu outbreak? A vet. West Nile virus? A vet. The swine flu epidemic? A vet. and who will they call for the next big epidemic, a vet. Most diseases affecting humans are caused by pathogens that come from animals and human doctors don't know much if anything about these if they do they learned it from a vet.

This is the same old tired propaganda from the the veterinary academy about the "unique" knowledge base of a veterinarian that makes them superior in public health, environmental/ecosystem health and biomedical research just to name a few areas. But the real truth is that the current DVM degree does not equip anyone with the necessary depth of specialized knowledge to address some of these problems. Most DVMs then need the specialized knowledge of a MS/MPH/PhD in order to gain the knowledge mastery of these comples fields, I offer as a case in point, Nathan Wolfe, PhD who founded the non-profit Global Viral Forecasting Initiative (www.gvfi.org) and now other organizations who are addressing emerging diseases. Most of the "experts" are experts in public health or microbiology with specific expertise in the field gained from specialized study in the field and not just a few hours of lecture in the DVM curriculum.

 

[uoguelph]

How many vets and how many MD's work with avian influenza?

We all know there are more MDs out there and yes some of them do work with avian influenza but my point is that these diseases are zoonotic. Currently there are 83 veterinarians working for the CDC and the CDC isn't the only place where they find employment.

If we look at someone with an MD and an MPH and another person with a DVM and MPH. It's more likely that the veterinarian would much sooner find a job. Why? Because 10 other MDs applied to the same position. Both the American and Canadian medical school systems produce way more doctors than veterinarians. There is a great need for veterinarians in public health.

http://www.cdc.gov/about/opportunities/careers/veterianarian.htm

 

[uoguelph]

This is the same old tired propaganda from the the veterinary academy about the "unique" knowledge base of a veterinarian that makes them superior in public health, environmental/ecosystem health and biomedical research just to name a few areas. But the real truth is that the current DVM degree does not equip anyone with the necessary depth of specialized knowledge to address some of these problems. Most DVMs then need the specialized knowledge of a MS/MPH/PhD in order to gain the knowledge mastery of these comples fields, I offer as a case in point, Nathan Wolfe, PhD who founded the non-profit Global Viral Forecasting Initiative (www.gvfi.org) and now other organizations who are addressing emerging diseases. Most of the "experts" are experts in public health or microbiology with specific expertise in the field gained from specialized study in the field and not just a few hours of lecture in the DVM curriculum.

That is not propaganda and what veterinary academy are you referring to? Most veterinary schools include public health in their undergraduate curriculum. At Guelph we have the "Centre for Public Health and Zoonoses" and it has 73 graduates listed as members, most of them having earned a DVM. The "experts" you are referring to probably graduated 40 years ago and have probably worked on a single binding protein of influenza for 30 years in the "field". Not knowing what to do next when the next strain of influenza terrorizes the world with a completely new binding protein, one that newer graduates will be better equipped to handle. I didn't say that veterinarians were fully equipped to go out and save the world after graduating with their "DVM" degrees but I argue that they recieve better training than MDs when it comes to issues like public health. They are trained to focus on herd health, how one individual would affect the rest of the population and they are exposed to population medicine. MDs, professors of cellular biology and the "experts" in the field don't have a clue as to what these mean. If you would like to keep debating this topic we should start a thread. It's an interesting debate but I stand on the veterinary side of things. Sorry for getting off topic gumtree!

 

[Saffine]

Have a look at the World Health Organisation influenza team: 28 people. No vets.
http://www.influenzacentre.org/aboutus_staff.htm

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

The "experts" you are referring to probably graduated 40 years ago and have probably worked on a single binding protein of influenza for 30 years in the "field". Not knowing what to do next when the next strain of influenza terrorizes the world with a completely new binding protein, one that newer graduates will be better equipped to handle.

New PhD graduates who have specialized training in the unique structure of influenza, yes. The problem is, most of the research into these disease is on such an incredibly specific molecular level, unless you have a PhD, you're going to be out of your element.

I argue that they recieve better training than MDs when it comes to issues like public health. They are trained to focus on herd health, how one individual would affect the rest of the population and they are exposed to population medicine. MDs, professors of cellular biology and the "experts" in the field don't have a clue as to what these mean.

How on earth can you make this statement? How much do you know about the MD program, or the cellular biology PhD programs, etc? You aren't even in veterinary school yet. They receive as much public health as we do, and probably more, especially when the organism with which they have worked for years (in the case of PhDs) is a public health threat. If I were an MD, I'd find the assumption of someone who hasn't even gone to vet school yet that I know nothing about public health to be quite offensive. You think things like STDs, which MDs are taught about extensively, aren't related to "herd health"? What about all the non-zoonotic viral and bacterial diseases?

Long story short - would more vets in public health be a good thing? Probably yes. There are certain things we could contribute. But does the public health sector desperately want vets? Not really, except in maybe a few very specific cases.

 

[gumtree]

Whoa. This is getting a bit heated! Let's keep my original question in mind here--I'm just looking for insight from vet students who are in a DVM/MPH program, not advice whether I should be going for DVM/MD or what is going to find my the best job after I graduate.

 

[cs5910]

I am currently applying to the VPH at Ohio State University, but there is not much info on the admissions process. Does anyone know if they interview for their program? Or how they select their students?

 

[Elliott Garber]

I did my DVM and MPH at Tufts, so feel free to shoot any specific questions about that program my way. Tufts is kind of unique in structuring the curriculum so that you can complete both degrees in four years.

 

[canis13]

I'm actually a current Tufts student (2nd year), and a drop-out of the DVM/MPH program. While I am fully intent on a career in veterinary public health, my plan is to get my MPH (or MPVM at UC Davis) after graduation. I dropped out after I realized that there was no way I could do two degrees and do justice to them both while cramming them into the same 4 years.
I'm close friends with all of the students my year who are DVM/MPH students, and all of them have more negative than positive things to say about the program. Basically, they feel like the MPH classes are just crammed in, they're not able to devote much time to them, and there is tons of "busy work" that they feel will not be helpful in their career. Classes are mostly taken with MD/MPH students, and often the subject material is irrelevant to veterinary medicine. 3 out of the 4 remaining people in the program in our year (we started with 6) have told me that if they hadn't already committed so much time and weren't so far in the program, they'd drop out.
Students in classes above mine who are in the DVM/MPH program are slightly more positive about it, and maybe it was better in the past, given that the poster above me graduated from the program and is still has positive things to say about it. And the obvious benefits are that it is cheaper to do the dual degree than to get a separate MPH, as well as the fact that it takes less time. But I personally am super glad I dropped out, and I am looking forward to obtaining a veterinary-focused public health degree (at UC Davis, Iowa State, NC State Univ. of Guelph, or Univ. of Utrecht in the Netherlands) after graduation.

 

[cuitlamiztli]

But I personally am super glad I dropped out, and I am looking forward to obtaining a veterinary-focused public health degree (at UC Davis, Iowa State, NC State Univ. of Guelph, or Univ. of Utrecht in the Netherlands) after graduation.

The MPH program is actually through the University of Iowa, not Iowa State

 

[hopefulinva]

I like to think that veterinarians, being the only doctors holding professional degrees in comparative medicine ( ), will be bringing significantly more to the field of public health in the future - especially as the One Health initiative grows. Which, it turns out, requires people to drop their bias in favor of one medical degree over another (in terms of the one they hold, not necessarily the one they want to pursue) and actually cultivate some mutual respect for each other and the perspectives everyone brings to the table. -ahem-

Or maybe I'm just a hippie; it's debatable.

But to address your question, gumtree - VMR has an infant MPH/DVM program to offer. It's expecting accreditation later this year, and works particularly well with the Public/Corporate track of the DVM program to train doctors specifically in infectious disease. P/C track gives you heaps of epidemiology; the MPH gives you some more.

And finally, the whole program was devised to cater to students interested in One Health.

I hope this helps. =)

 

[Saffine]

I dropped out after I realized that there was no way I could do two degrees and do justice to them both while cramming them into the same 4 years.

Canis, I was just wondering how easy/difficulty it is to get practical experience in public health whilst completing a veterinary degree and associated rotations concurrently?
I would think it difficult to get a graduate job without experience.
Also do you know how the DVM/MPH grads are faring in the public health job market?

 

[canis13]

Canis, I was just wondering how easy/difficulty it is to get practical experience in public health whilst completing a veterinary degree and associated rotations concurrently?
I would think it difficult to get a graduate job without experience.
Also do you know how the DVM/MPH grads are faring in the public health job market?

I'm not really sure what you're asking, nor what you mean by "graduate job" - by "graduate job", are you referring to a public health position? Also, are you asking about veterinary students in general getting public health experience or DVM/MPH students?
To attempt to answer what I think you're asking: getting public health experience isn't inherently easier or harder on average than getting any other kind of experience while you're in veterinary school, in my opinion. At least at my school you have two summers to intern with a public health organization/do research/whatever, and then during your clinical rotations you have 16 weeks of required electives which you can use to pursue even more public health experience.

I'm not really sure who you are, but it seems like you're a vet who is trying to convince people that it' not worth it to pursue a veterinary degree if you're interested in public health positions. I won't try to argue with you on how well a veterinary degree prepares you for a career in public health vs. MD vs. PhD, but I will say that at least in the US, there are thousands of veterinarians working in public health and epidemiology - state and federal government, international organizations, NGOs, industry, military, etc. So I would say that veterinarians are faring very well in the public health job market (however you want to define that).

 

[Elliott Garber]

I won't try to argue with you on how well a veterinary degree prepares you for a career in public health vs. MD vs. PhD, but I will say that at least in the US, there are thousands of veterinarians working in public health and epidemiology - state and federal government, international organizations, NGOs, industry, military, etc. So I would say that veterinarians are faring very well in the public health job market (however you want to define that).

I'm the guy who did the DVM/MPH program at Tufts. I'm currently in the Army after getting a HPSP scholarship, so I haven't really had to worry about the job market yet. I've stayed in touch with many of my fellow DVM/MPHers from my time at Tufts and none of them have had any problem getting relevant jobs. One works for USDA, one works for the Boston Public Health Commission, another is in a zoo/wildlife residency at NC State, and another is doing her PhD in aquatic animal toxicology. Others have decided to practice clinical medicine for a few years but still plan to get into the public health world eventually.

I think that the options have changed a lot for students interested in getting MPHs from when I was starting vet school. Tufts is still unique in that you can do both degrees in four years, but now there are much more vet-specific programs out there that would probably be a lot more relevant and interesting than the Tufts curriculum is.

As long as you are not in a rush to finish school and start earning real money, I think you will definitely enjoy life more by focusing just on the DVM and then going on to a relevant public health program!

 

[ImNotThatGirl]

I go to Ross University on the Caribbean island of St Kitts, and I also have my MS in Food Safety from Michigan State University (received before I started vet school at Ross). While Ross doesn't have a particular DVM/MPH dual degree program yet, we are definitely very unique in terms of public health. Being an island and a developing country, we see zoonotic diseases, parasites, etc all the time that you may rarely get to see in the U.S. My Epidemiology professors have traveled worldwide, working in clinics and in the field, and one of my professors used to work for the CDC as well. We have a Public Health Club that gives us lots of experience volunteering around the island and in the abattoir. There are also lots of research projects that you can apply to work with. Here is a link so you can see the latest research projects we have going on on campus and around St Kitts

 

[Elliott Garber]

Good to hear that Ross has a lot of public health endeavors going on!

 

[Must Love Dogs]

I go to Ross University on the Caribbean island of St Kitts, and I also have my MS in Food Safety from Michigan State University (received before I started vet school at Ross). While Ross doesn't have a particular DVM/MPH dual degree program yet, we are definitely very unique in terms of public health. Being an island and a developing country, we see zoonotic diseases, parasites, etc all the time that you may rarely get to see in the U.S. My Epidemiology professors have traveled worldwide, working in clinics and in the field, and one of my professors used to work for the CDC as well. We have a Public Health Club that gives us lots of experience volunteering around the island and in the abattoir. There are also lots of research projects that you can apply to work with. Here is a link so you can see the latest research projects we have going on on campus and around St Kitts

This is good to hear!! It is one of the reasons why I hesitated applying to Ross because I was afraid that there wouldn't be much in the way of public health experience. Thanks for posting!

 

[philomycus]

I am in the DVM/MPH program at UF, c/o 2013. PM me if you have any questions about the UF program.