Where should I apply?

[civilleader]

So Im thinking about doing neuro and am just about to finish my first rotation (surgery) and want to do a fellowship after residency in possibly neuro-onc or sleep medicine (maybe pain)

Anyways I was wondering where I could get in with my stats. I would like to stay in Texas particularly Houston or Dallas...

I have a 231 USMLE 500 COMLEX from UNTHSC-TCOM and am in the middle of my class

Are there any programs (assuming I dont screw up anything between now and Feb 2012) out of reach for me?

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[civilleader]

Oh I have some neuro related basic science research from undergrad (several conference posters) but Im going to have a 2 month research elective at the end of this school year and am banking for a publication.

 

[95439]

Oh I have some neuro related basic science research from undergrad (several conference posters) but Im going to have a 2 month research elective at the end of this school year and am banking for a publication.

Get your COMLEX up to around 550 or above on step 2 and you're good. If you get the publication you're golden. And check out UTSW at Austin because they have an AMAZING PGY-1 Neuro class starting next year ;o)~

 

[Head]

I would say the upper tier is out of reach, the second tier would be a stretch, but the third tier is well within reach (I'm speaking nationally, I'm not that familiar with the Texas programs). This is mostly based on the fact that you are coming from a DO school, and not necessarily related to your scores. The publication will likely help. I've stated this elsewhere, but I would highly recommend getting at least one LOR from an MD Neurologist if you are interested in allopathic residencies.

 

[neuro critical]

So, I think Baylor is almost impossible, because they do not usually take DO's. Maybe you would have a fair chance with UT Houston. For sure Methodist and the other UT branches are really possible.

 

[chrisv]

I would say the upper tier is out of reach, the second tier would be a stretch, but the third tier is well within reach (I'm speaking nationally, I'm not that familiar with the Texas programs). This is mostly based on the fact that you are coming from a DO school, and not necessarily related to your scores. The publication will likely help. I've stated this elsewhere, but I would highly recommend getting at least one LOR from an MD Neurologist if you are interested in allopathic residencies.

So what would you consider to be third tier programs? Any Illinois, California, or Nevada programs in that list?

 

[Septo Shock]

Well according to the NRMP in last yrs match, only 1 US grad (MD/DO) with a 230-240 did not match into an allo spot so I think you're fine as long as you apply broadly! If you look at the match lists for this yrs classes, lots of DOs who wanted neuro matched at good allo programs

 

[95439]

I would say the upper tier is out of reach, the second tier would be a stretch, but the third tier is well within reach (I'm speaking nationally, I'm not that familiar with the Texas programs). This is mostly based on the fact that you are coming from a DO school, and not necessarily related to your scores. The publication will likely help. I've stated this elsewhere, but I would highly recommend getting at least one LOR from an MD Neurologist if you are interested in allopathic residencies.

I disagree completely. I came from a DO school and got interviews at most of the '2nd tier' schools, including Emory, Duke, Georgetown etc..My LOR's were from MD's but 2 of the 3 were from FMG MD's. There are a couple of programs that are definitively anti-DO (ahem Barrow achoo), but don't limit your application based on the above advice.

 

[neuro critical]

In my opinion there is still a lot of discrimination regarding DO's.
I'm a MD, and during my interview season I've seen many situations that confirm this, in first and second-tier programs....The only place that was really DO friendly was Case Western....It is sad, but it is real.

 

[95439]

In my opinion there is still a lot of discrimination regarding DO's.
I'm a MD, and during my interview season I've seen many situations that confirm this, in first and second-tier programs....The only place that was really DO friendly was Case Western....It is sad, but it is real.

I don't know, I got my 1st choice of prelim programs and 2nd choice of neurology residencies. But I went in assuming the worst, and applied to as many programs as possible. There's definitely some discrimination though (i.e. my program director keeps giving me the DO medstudents, and gives FMG's the FMG med students lol). Honestly, I may have gotten alot of interviews but I did wonder if some of the programs were just padding their interview stats to say they interviewed DO's. Who knows if I was seriously considered for acceptance. Either way I can say pretty certainly from what I've seen so far that MD's are not always superior to DO's. And I came into residency thinking the opposite.

 

[civilleader]

So, I think Baylor is almost impossible, because they do not usually take DO's. Maybe you would have a fair chance with UT Houston. For sure Methodist and the other UT branches are really possible.

what about southwestern? I know they do have a DO in their midst....also tho Baylor is full of FMGs, so it seems odd that they dont like DOs.

 

[PhakeDoc]

sorry to yell, but to EVERYONE who asks this question...

APPLY BROADLY...for both neuro AND PRELIMS/TYs. you can always say NO to invitations but you can't make invitations magically APPEAR.

This is NOT the time to be stingy with your money.

I would recommend 12 or greater neuro programs (I don't give a hoot if you are AOA, MD/PhD from Harvard with 280+ board scores) and at least that many if not more prelim/TY programs.

 

[neuro critical]

About southwestern, I don´t have much information
Baylor usually has 2-4 of 10 spots filled by FMG....but normally are FMG with previous neuro training or post graduation.....this year they have among the FMG´s a MsC, a phD and a resident with previous fellowship training...and the rest has at least 1 year of research in the US.

 

[LocusCeruleous]

I disagree completely. I came from a DO school and got interviews at most of the '2nd tier' schools, including Emory, Duke, Georgetown etc..My LOR's were from MD's but 2 of the 3 were from FMG MD's. There are a couple of programs that are definitively anti-DO (ahem Barrow achoo), but don't limit your application based on the above advice.

bblue's comment about Barrow is not accurate. They actually have at least 2 current residents who are DO's and have had others in the past. So, if they do have an anti-DO prejudice, it is not strong enough to prevent them from ranking some DO's high enough to match.

 

[clement]

So, I think Baylor is almost impossible, because they do not usually take DO's. Maybe you would have a fair chance with UT Houston. For sure Methodist and the other UT branches are really possible.

neuro critical, it's actually the exact opposite. Methodist straight up communicates in writing they don't interview based on DO-status (though oddly, they have a DO...guess they're trying to "build" their reputation). Baylor, on the other hand, interviewed plenty of DO's this year and there is a fellow at Baylor who is a DO and did residency there. Does that mean Baylor will actually rank DO's within matching range or at all? Perhaps you have some internal knowledge of this. They haven't taken a DO during the term of the current PD.

That being said, funny someone mentioned Case but not Cleveland Clinic (which even prematches DO's and has DO chiefs but doesn't have a large FMG presence), NYU, Brown, UCSD, OHSU, University of Chicago, Northwestern, Duke, take and/or interview DO's.

Is it an uphill battle at some places that interview DO's? Yes. Again, some less-than-scrupulous programs interview DO's to cushion their list.

 

[95439]

bblue's comment about Barrow is not accurate. They actually have at least 2 current residents who are DO's and have had others in the past. So, if they do have an anti-DO prejudice, it is not strong enough to prevent them from ranking some DO's high enough to match.

Excuse me? You should read the entire account then. I'll give you the brief version - the first thing on interview day, a fellow interviewee asked about the program's legitimacy/reputation, and the faculty member said "No, this is a legitimate program, not like a DO program or anything haha". He then went around and asked the interviewees what medical schools they went to and three of us were DO's. "Coincidentally", that faculty member did not end up interviewing us as was planned that afternoon, someone took his place...then in an interview later that day I was asked "So, you seem like a really good candidate. Why did you go to a DO program?". I have no reason to lie. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[serencavalier]

When I approached the ERAS application, I thought I would not get a single allo neuro program and that I would easily get all 6 osteo neuro programs. To my surprise, I received plenty of invitations from my favorite allo programs and only ONE osteo invite. It came as quite a shock, but ultimately as a reminder of how silly this whole md/do thing can be.

One more note, when applying, I went through EVERY allo neuro programs' website to see their current list of residents. Those that did not have DOs, I did not bother applying. I came up with a list of ~35 programs (about 1/3 of allo programs).

Hope this helps and good luck to everyone!

 

[clement]

When I approached the ERAS application, I thought I would not get a single allo neuro program and that I would easily get all 6 osteo neuro programs. To my surprise, I received plenty of invitations from my favorite allo programs and only ONE osteo invite. It came as quite a shock, but ultimately as a reminder of how silly this whole md/do thing can be.

One more note, when applying, I went through EVERY allo neuro programs' website to see their current list of residents. Those that did not have DOs, I did not bother applying. I came up with a list of ~35 programs (about 1/3 of allo programs).

Hope this helps and good luck to everyone!

Osteo programs don't give applicants geographic selection due to quantity and I assume most people that apply neuro go allo to begin with, that osteo programs don't absorb a sig portion of the pool. Osteos are also known for extending interview invites based on whether an applicant did a sub-I at their program or not.

 

[civilleader]

When I approached the ERAS application, I thought I would not get a single allo neuro program and that I would easily get all 6 osteo neuro programs. To my surprise, I received plenty of invitations from my favorite allo programs and only ONE osteo invite. It came as quite a shock, but ultimately as a reminder of how silly this whole md/do thing can be.

One more note, when applying, I went through EVERY allo neuro programs' website to see their current list of residents. Those that did not have DOs, I did not bother applying. I came up with a list of ~35 programs (about 1/3 of allo programs).

Hope this helps and good luck to everyone!

which programs were those??

 

[LocusCeruleous]

Excuse me? You should read the entire account then. I'll give you the brief version - the first thing on interview day, a fellow interviewee asked about the program's legitimacy/reputation, and the faculty member said "No, this is a legitimate program, not like a DO program or anything haha". He then went around and asked the interviewees what medical schools they went to and three of us were DO's. "Coincidentally", that faculty member did not end up interviewing us as was planned that afternoon, someone took his place...then in an interview later that day I was asked "So, you seem like a really good candidate. Why did you go to a DO program?". I have no reason to lie. Take it for what it's worth.

I do not know what your personal experience was like when you interviewed at the BNI. Sometimes individual faculty members hold opinions not shared by the majority of the faculty. All I can say is that it is a fact that they have had residents in the past who were DO's and that they currently have 2 DO residents now. So, although it may be the case that some random faculty member made a negative comment about DO's, the department DOES rank and take DO's and, therefore, any institutional prejudice cannot be very strong.

 

[serencavalier]

Osteo programs don't give applicants geographic selection due to quantity and I assume most people that apply neuro go allo to begin with, that osteo programs don't absorb a sig portion of the pool. Osteos are also known for extending interview invites based on whether an applicant did a sub-I at their program or not.

You are definitely right. Of course, I only learned about this later in the process.

 

[95439]

I do not know what your personal experience was like when you interviewed at the BNI. Sometimes individual faculty members hold opinions not shared by the majority of the faculty. All I can say is that it is a fact that they have had residents in the past who were DO's and that they currently have 2 DO residents now. So, although it may be the case that some random faculty member made a negative comment about DO's, the department DOES rank and take DO's and, therefore, any institutional prejudice cannot be very strong.

Just strong enough for it to be the first words out of whoever was deemed important enough to be the first person to speak to interviewees (it wasn't Dr. Chung, he seemed like a reasonable man). And to be reiterated by a very senior faculty member during an interview. And I interviewed at 19 neurology programs and didn't have one experience like at Barrow. But you're right, it's pry just a fluke ;o)

 

[LocusCeruleous]

The issue may now be moot. I have heard from my friends in Phoenix that there has been a major change in the Barrow Neurological Institute's Department of Neurology. Last Friday (2/15/2013) the chairman abruptly resigned (or was fired?). Everyone says that this guy was liked by the faculty and residents and had apparently been doing a good job bulding up the department. There had recently been a management change at the institution and the Department of Neurology was under attack by the admistration. The chairman had been successfully resisting the changes (some of which consisted of salary cuts for members of the Department and a take over by the neurosurgeons). I am really sad to hear this and the likely result is a going to be a long period of decline for neurology at the BNI and the institution as a whole.