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I'm entering residency next year and am interested in forensics. Besides UT southwestern which has a AP/forensic track where are the big name programs? Any help would be appreciated.
Where are the elite forensic fellowships?
- Thread starter caribstud
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B
b&ierstiefel
New Mexico (I think ppl were saying good things about that program with respect to forensics back when I was applying to path programs)
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I hear that the Miami/Dade program is pretty good. I was down there before med school and can imagine you would get a wide variety of forensic experence (due to the demographics of the area) down there. Plus you cant beat the climate.
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The Miami Dade program is a good forensics fellowship, but from what I hear the U of Miami is not a good residency training program. Resident education takes a backseat to other issues. Not sure if they are that affiliated...
New Mexico is a good program because NM has a statewide medical examiner system where all ME cases go through one office in the state. All the autopsies are done (I believe) in the same facility.
New Mexico is a good program because NM has a statewide medical examiner system where all ME cases go through one office in the state. All the autopsies are done (I believe) in the same facility.
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Yes, that's correct -- the hospital autopsies and the ME cases are performed in the same building at UNM. It's a well-designed facility with excellent faculty and support staff, and the cases that come through the doors are quite diverse. Ross Zumwalt is the Chief, and he was president of the National Association of Medical Examiners back in the '90s. Most residents at UNM aren't going into the field and aren't wild about doing autopsies, but it's agreed that this is the place to learn everything you need to know about forensics.
I seem to recall the other "big name" in forensics is in NYC... not sure about the program name, but it's similar in size to UNM and takes a few fellows a year. I'm sure the training is great there, too.
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Hi Carib:
I too am becoming a forensic pathologist, though I am now in my 4th (i.e. LAST) year of residency training & am going to start my forensic fellowship in July.
Keep an eye on Boston is my advice. We have a fabulous new chief ME, brand new attending recruits from New York & New Mexico, a decent case load, and a lot of potential. The program is now considered a Harvard-wide (i.e. MGH, Brigham, & BI) pathology fellowship. Of course, if you couldn't tell, I am training at Boston next year! With the right amount of luck & circumstance, I will stay on as an attending with hopefully an appointment at MGH.
Let me know if you have any specific questions, I am more than happy to talk about either the Boston OCME or MGH.
Mindy
I too am becoming a forensic pathologist, though I am now in my 4th (i.e. LAST) year of residency training & am going to start my forensic fellowship in July.
Keep an eye on Boston is my advice. We have a fabulous new chief ME, brand new attending recruits from New York & New Mexico, a decent case load, and a lot of potential. The program is now considered a Harvard-wide (i.e. MGH, Brigham, & BI) pathology fellowship. Of course, if you couldn't tell, I am training at Boston next year! With the right amount of luck & circumstance, I will stay on as an attending with hopefully an appointment at MGH.
Let me know if you have any specific questions, I am more than happy to talk about either the Boston OCME or MGH.
Mindy
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kinda unrelated question . . .
In my state the coroner's salary is set by statute, but she is free to pay her deputy coroners whatever the market will bear (which, one might expect, means that the coroner makes less money than any of the deputies.) How does the system work in Boston and NM, and what can a deputy expect to pull down in those spots?
judd
In my state the coroner's salary is set by statute, but she is free to pay her deputy coroners whatever the market will bear (which, one might expect, means that the coroner makes less money than any of the deputies.) How does the system work in Boston and NM, and what can a deputy expect to pull down in those spots?
judd
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Hi Juddson:
I think that there is a pay scale based on grad year, board eligibility/accreditation, and experience. I think there is a little wobble in it. I haven't paid too much attention to it, to be honest, because I really am more concerned with elevating the field of forensic path than I am with making an extra few bucks. It is a field in the right position for an academic revolution! I also think I will get academic appt which will supplement. And down the line, I imagine I'll have a consulting service. I really believe that if you do something you are happy with, money will follow. I expect to make in low to mid 100s starting.
Mindy
I think that there is a pay scale based on grad year, board eligibility/accreditation, and experience. I think there is a little wobble in it. I haven't paid too much attention to it, to be honest, because I really am more concerned with elevating the field of forensic path than I am with making an extra few bucks. It is a field in the right position for an academic revolution! I also think I will get academic appt which will supplement. And down the line, I imagine I'll have a consulting service. I really believe that if you do something you are happy with, money will follow. I expect to make in low to mid 100s starting.
Mindy
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VCU/MCV is pretty kickass in forensics, as well. Richmond regularly vies for the top city in terms of per capita murders. Patricia Cornwell's books involving hot Medical Examiner Kay Scarpetta are set there. I visited the old State ME office years ago, and her books were quite true to the physical setting. Since then it has been torn down and replaced with a new, swanky facility.
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So Dr.Mindy, how was the meeting?
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Seems like this thread's origins are a bit dated, but anyway, just to (re)state: Hearing nice things about Miami-Dade, NM, Boston. Don't know a thing about how their affiliations works, tho'. Obviously (still) NYC and Wash. DC are absolutely horrific, and not in a good way, I might add... Forensic Path is certainly a field, where there's more bad places to work than good, and generally working conditions (if not the work itself) is pretty bad. But a salute to those who stays in a field I once loved myself.
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Hi:
I definitely agree with your choices for "good" programs. NYC, however, is actually a top-notch place to train--not "horrific" at all. I recently spent 1 month in NYC and would have VERY happily trained there. In fact, they have a very well put together program, a very strong national reputation. Being a person who is fairly dedicated to Boston, I jumped at the chance to stay on here when the fellowship was reinstated (and Harvard affiliated at that.) The affiliations with the area hospitals (MGH, Brighams, BID, BU, and Childrens) are indeed real, and strengthening. In fact, I am at the Mass. Forensic Tox lab currently (elective) which is actually out of University of Massachusetts in Worcester, so yet another strong institutional affiliation. The OCME building abuts Boston University Medical Center, so by proximity they have the closest relationship. At least one full-time FP at the OCME now has an appointment at Brigham. Hopefully I will retain my relationship with the General. And the Chief Medical Examiner is on staff at all of the Harvard Hospitals and BU.
Another place I definitely liked when I visited (and it is a place that has a spotty reputation, mostly undeserved) is LA. The chief medical examiner is excellent, smart, forward thinking, and kind. The case load is intense. The current fellows are good people.
My advice to anyone seeking forensic pathology is take advice of non-FPs (maybe even including me!) with a grain of salt. The perspective on the field of outsiders is really disparaging. Get out there and do your own research! I highly suggest going to the NAME meeting to get a since of a who's who and what's what of forensics. Not to mention, residents get extra special attention because of the general paucity of them!
So anyway: To answer Path1's question: The NAME meeting was AWESOME! It was my second one. Aside from a bizarre case of jitters (jeez am I ever too old to have a quiver in my voice?) my platform went well. I was able to reconnect with some folks i had met at other meetings. And learn about emerging FP issues, like TASER-related deaths (and the company's insistence that they do not exist, including suing FPs who sign "TASER" as contributing and/or causing death on death certificates!) What a fascinating field!
Mindy
I definitely agree with your choices for "good" programs. NYC, however, is actually a top-notch place to train--not "horrific" at all. I recently spent 1 month in NYC and would have VERY happily trained there. In fact, they have a very well put together program, a very strong national reputation. Being a person who is fairly dedicated to Boston, I jumped at the chance to stay on here when the fellowship was reinstated (and Harvard affiliated at that.) The affiliations with the area hospitals (MGH, Brighams, BID, BU, and Childrens) are indeed real, and strengthening. In fact, I am at the Mass. Forensic Tox lab currently (elective) which is actually out of University of Massachusetts in Worcester, so yet another strong institutional affiliation. The OCME building abuts Boston University Medical Center, so by proximity they have the closest relationship. At least one full-time FP at the OCME now has an appointment at Brigham. Hopefully I will retain my relationship with the General. And the Chief Medical Examiner is on staff at all of the Harvard Hospitals and BU.
Another place I definitely liked when I visited (and it is a place that has a spotty reputation, mostly undeserved) is LA. The chief medical examiner is excellent, smart, forward thinking, and kind. The case load is intense. The current fellows are good people.
My advice to anyone seeking forensic pathology is take advice of non-FPs (maybe even including me!) with a grain of salt. The perspective on the field of outsiders is really disparaging. Get out there and do your own research! I highly suggest going to the NAME meeting to get a since of a who's who and what's what of forensics. Not to mention, residents get extra special attention because of the general paucity of them!
So anyway: To answer Path1's question: The NAME meeting was AWESOME! It was my second one. Aside from a bizarre case of jitters (jeez am I ever too old to have a quiver in my voice?) my platform went well. I was able to reconnect with some folks i had met at other meetings. And learn about emerging FP issues, like TASER-related deaths (and the company's insistence that they do not exist, including suing FPs who sign "TASER" as contributing and/or causing death on death certificates!) What a fascinating field!
Mindy
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Granted, I'm in a different world from Forensics now, and has been for quite some time, so I'd happily accept Mindy's views. Actually, the last time I visited NYOCME on 1st Ave. was close to two years ago (visiting old friends and such), and the building was simply falling apart - even more so than before. They do have some very capable deputy ME's, and I'm only glad if good training is available. Go visit, and make your own assesment. (and granted, they weren't THAT much worse than the research buildings at MSKCC before the opening of the über-cool Zuckerman building).
Can also fully concur in the suggestion that prospective FP's should do their own research. Things can and do change.
Can also fully concur in the suggestion that prospective FP's should do their own research. Things can and do change.
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I am an MS4 and recently did an elective at the OCME in NYC. I agree that they have a great training program. I was amazed at the amount of didactics. Every day, students, resident, and fellows attend a 1 hour lecture followed by presentation of the days cases to the Chief Medical Examiner. It is a great learning experience. I know that the fellows are required to rotated through each burroughs (sp?).
There were several residents doing audition rotations while I was there and I found out that to be considered competitive for the fellowship, you need to have performed at least 75 (I think) autopsies, not just the 50 required for board certification in anatomic.
There were several residents doing audition rotations while I was there and I found out that to be considered competitive for the fellowship, you need to have performed at least 75 (I think) autopsies, not just the 50 required for board certification in anatomic.
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I worked at NYC OCME for four years doing research before med school (currently MS3). It's a fantastic place to train. Tons of interesting cases. Great didactics and a group of FP's who want nothing more than to train the best ME's in the country. There is work in all five NYC boros as well as in their labs doing all the various functions. The building is in a poor state of repair but the offices and morgue are brand new. If all goes according to plan, I hope to work there some day.
What is being said about Boston is also very true. The new chief (former NYC deputy) is one of the best teachers I've met and will strive to make that program one of the best in the nation.
What is being said about Boston is also very true. The new chief (former NYC deputy) is one of the best teachers I've met and will strive to make that program one of the best in the nation.
Hi Mindy
I know this is an old post but I am considering Boston for FP fellowship and learned that the chief ME here is retiring this year. Any ideas of who will be replacing him? Also, has anything changed in a negative way regarding the fellowship program there? Would you still recommend it? I would like to do an away elective there...
thanks
