What's wrong with the caribbean?

[davidgareau]

I am confused, if I can do med school in the caribbean and the clinical portion in the US (this is available at American University of the Caribbean AUC) then what would the big deal be. I mean, I would be taking some classes in the caribbean but the practical stuff would be done here.

The list of hospitals is:
http://www.aucmed.edu/clinical/ushospitals.htm

So I figured it would be fine.... what am I missing, it seems that everyone here says to avoid the caribbean schools if you can.

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[Analyzethis]

There is a BIG difference-the hospitals the caribbean students get to rotate in the US are just the worst of the worst caliber-filled with foreign students with really low ranking residency programs or no programs at all-often you work in all DO hospitals-not that it is bad but I have talked to many and just happen to be currently rotating through a hospital that tends to have a lot of carribeans and I am only here because I am making up a 3rd year rotation and needed to get it in as a 4th year and this is the only place that had space-but there are tons of caribeans here and this hospital is just an awful learnign experience-anyway check out the caliber of hospitals-it is terrible.

 

[davidgareau]

Is that the clinical portion of medical school hospitals or the residency programs you can get after medical school?

 

[utorontograd]

David,

If you're in a position to get into a U.S. School do it. If you can't, the top 4 caribbean schools are a great alternative (Ross, St. George's, AUC and Saba).

 

[Hexanol]

David,

If you're in a position to get into a U.S. School do it. If you can't, the top 4 caribbean schools are a great alternative (Ross, St. George's, AUC and Saba).

is there a ranking for the carribean schools? or is it mostly by word of mouth?

and this is NOT to troll, but is it better to go carribean than osetopathic?
What would the Pro's and Con's be?

 

[Taurus]

Christ, you guys need to visit the Carib forum.

The priority is US MD > US DO > Carib MD

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

in general, carib grads get last pick of residencies. that's what's wrong

 

[jawicobike]

This type of discussion always ends up bad but before it gets there the point that was made by the last two posts is a good one. Whether or not a fmg or DO or USMD is a better doc in the end is irrevelant what matters is how difficult it is to be the kind of professional you want to be. If you're dead set on Family practice then it really doesn't matter where you go because you'll get a residency somewhere. If you want to be a dermatologist you're going to be fighting an uphill battle if you go DO or FMG regardless of how great your school is.

 

[Analyzethis]

It doesnt have to be a mean thread-I answered the question truthfully-I am a 4th year and have been doing lots of rotations around the country and I have met tons and tons of caribean students trying to get us spots by doing 4th year electives and they have told me all about their experiences-I have met tons from Ross, Sto george and SABA-and none of them have ever had a good thing to say.

They often all agree that their first 2 years is fine-actually very enjoyable and prepares you just fine-but the problem is third year. Much the same as many DO schools that do not set up rotations for you. However the top caribean schools do set up your rotations for you-usually you have a match-so you either choose NYC, westcoast etc-and you get to do all rotations in the area of country you select-however like i said-the hospitals where they do third year are just the bottom of the barrel in quality of docs, quality of experiences, teaching, exposure-they are just really poor hospitals-and third year is important for getting good LOR's and just getin gplain experience.

The one i met most recently said he did pretty well on his steps (he passed) and did his third year at some hospitals in NYC-and matched into an allopathic FP spot in the state I am in-but it is just the bottom of the barrel FP program, filled by all IMGs which doesnt make it bad-it is just so poor that they have no problesm geting a spot-and this kid said that was the best program he got into. This is compared to a US MD or DO who could match into FP NO PROBLEM providing they passed their steps. So it is a very very uphill battle IMO

I would choose DO anyday of the week-thanksfully I am in a top 20 MD school so dont have to worry but DO all the way if I didnt. gluck

 

[NonTradMed]

Carribean school students have a tougher time matching (as others have stated). As FMGs, they tend to get 'last pick' on residencies. It's best to practice medicine in the country that you want to practice in.

 

[RossFamily]

I really dont think it is fare to say that FMG's get crappy rotation spots or bottom of the barrel residency positions. My husband worked hard, got great grades at Ross, did well on Step 1 and 2....rotated thru decent hosptials in Maryland, had 20+ interview invites and landed an ob/gyn position at a decent hospital that serves the whole state. (high risk ob,NICU)

I think the key is keeping your nose in the books, be MATURE, do well on the USMLE, and have a good attitude.

Caribbean is NOT bad...the people that can't hack it give it a bad name. All schools have them, it is just that the Caribbean "world" is smaller and the "bad" word gets strewn around ALOT more quickly and easily.

Work hard and you will do great.

 

[oldpro]

Carribean school students have a tougher time matching (as others have stated). As FMGs, they tend to get 'last pick' on residencies. It's best to practice medicine in the country that you want to practice in.

You know this is just not all true, many FMG's also prematch, since they are "outside" of the LCME then they can do this.

I know I have.

 

[oldpro]

in general, carib grads get last pick of residencies. that's what's wrong

Hey, "You don't know Jack" thats not true in all cases. I love it, your gonign to be a Doctor and you give such wide sweeping statements, why not say MD gets first then DO then Caribbean? I do not think this is true but there are a lot on SDN who love to pick on everyone and tell them how they will never get anywhere unless they do exactly what they POST. HAHAHAHAHA

Good Luck to everyone, I will be an FP and loving it!

 

[oldpro]

There is a BIG difference-the hospitals the caribbean students get to rotate in the US are just the worst of the worst caliber-filled with foreign students with really low ranking residency programs or no programs at all-often you work in all DO hospitals-not that it is bad but I have talked to many and just happen to be currently rotating through a hospital that tends to have a lot of carribeans and I am only here because I am making up a 3rd year rotation and needed to get it in as a 4th year and this is the only place that had space-but there are tons of caribeans here and this hospital is just an awful learnign experience-anyway check out the caliber of hospitals-it is terrible.

Boy I'm so glad that only the really good sick people choose your hospitals! Oh pass the Latt'e. HAHA I really do think you are generlizing too much.

1. IF you met the Caribbean students on rotations then they do go to good Hospitals per your own statement.

2. Uh wheres the Science in just stating they are Bad 3rd year Hospitals, I happen to know my school goes to Cook County in CHicago, and Baltimore in the Johns Hopkins medical system (Harbor Hospital and Bayview) and others? In fact the rotations can be set up at any Hospital the will do them with the school and student.

3. I just love A US student who knows it all. So do you have research other than hearsay? I wouldn't bet a DX on just hearsay!

4. Yes I agree US schools are number one choice to study medicine, but the Caribbean has different standards for admission and more spots. Some students are lucky to study medicine at all, for them this is the one way they have to be MD's.

 

[davidgareau]

Wow, sorry for getting everyone so roused up

I can get into a US med school.... I am not worried about that, I just like to know my options. But in all honesty I think that many of the people on this board are probably the really really good medical students. So, I am curious and please don't think to badly about me for asking it...

1. Say, hypothetically, I don't want to be the BEST doctor in the world, but rather a Good/average doctor. Say, I want to help people but don't feel the need to find the cure for AIDs or cancer or overly competitive med students. Would going to a caribbean school allow me to be that?

2. Emergency Medicine is my desired specialty and Pathology is my wife's, I was told these are less difficult ones to get into residencies for. If this is true, then a good student, from a respected caribbean school would possibly have a good change at a good residency. Is that accurate?

3. Would a carib-educated doctor make significantly less then a US-educated doctor after finishing his/her residency in EM or Pathology?

4. What could a Carib-student do to improve chances at better residency. During the 2 years studying in the caribbean (sun) and the 2 years of clinical in the US at the "crappy" hospital?

 

[Kuba]

3. Would a carib-educated doctor make significantly less then a US-educated doctor after finishing his/her residency in EM or Pathology?

3. a doc is a doc is a doc. you get paid as a physician, so no.

 

[McGillGrad]

Wow, sorry for getting everyone so roused up

I can get into a US med school.... I am not worried about that, I just like to know my options. But in all honesty I think that many of the people on this board are probably the really really good medical students. So, I am curious and please don't think to badly about me for asking it...

1. Say, hypothetically, I don't want to be the BEST doctor in the world, but rather a Good/average doctor. Say, I want to help people but don't feel the need to find the cure for AIDs or cancer or overly competitive med students. Would going to a caribbean school allow me to be that?

2. Emergency Medicine is my desired specialty and Pathology is my wife's, I was told these are less difficult ones to get into residencies for. If this is true, then a good student, from a respected caribbean school would possibly have a good change at a good residency. Is that accurate?

3. Would a carib-educated doctor make significantly less then a US-educated doctor after finishing his/her residency in EM or Pathology?

4. What could a Carib-student do to improve chances at better residency. During the 2 years studying in the caribbean (sun) and the 2 years of clinical in the US at the "crappy" hospital?

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. No difference in pay

4. Very high USMLE scores and good connection/LOR from respected members of your chosen field. This would be possible when you do 4th year electives.

 

[davidgareau]

LOR from respected members of your chosen field. This would be possible when you do 4th year electives.

>>> how would i get this if I'm doing my clinical stuff at the "crappy" hospitals as someone said... would there be respected members of any field there?

 

[McGillGrad]

LOR from respected members of your chosen field. This would be possible when you do 4th year electives.

>>> how would i get this if I'm doing my clinical stuff at the "crappy" hospitals as someone said... would there be respected members of any field there?

You shouldn't listen to people who have no idea what they are talking about.

Take everything that is said here with a grain of salt because most people talk out of their ass. Double check everything you hear on the boards and in life (and this includes what I am saying).

Obviously, you may not be rotating at Mass General or Johns Hopkins Hospital but you will be at good teaching hospitals that have staff that can be just as good (or really crappy).

You often schedule your 4th year electives with guidance and approval by the school and it can be at any accredited hospital (that usually accept or deny you on your own merits). Of course some will not accept any foreign students but exclusivity is not unique to medicine.

 

[erichaj]

Let me just clear things up.

I went to Ross, I'm now a board certified physician and know many others in my class that have done the same.

We make the same money. Once you get your MD and do residency theyu don't say, oh look they went to ross so lets pay them less. It does not work that way. Some of us work in hospitals that are known around the world or at least the United States. I know of a couple that scored very high on the USMLE . Something like 240 to 250.

EM? I know docs from Ross, that are doing EM. By the way, the word crapy in residency has many meanings. I could mean that they work you do death or it could mean you don't see all the pathology you want. However, most EM programs work you to death by nature an you see your share of trauma and general cases.

Pathology? I know one person that was in a path program and she did not speak very good english, but she did know her stuff. I guess right now it's not too popular.

Neurosurgery? Forget about it.

IF YOU WANT TO BE A DOCTOR YOU CAN DO IT AT ROSS OR THE OTHER WELL KNOWN CARIBEAN PROGRAMS.

THESE ARE KNOWN AS SECOND CHANCE PROGRAMS. THAT MEANS YOU BETTER WORK YOUR ASS OFF OR THEY WILL WEED YOU OUT. BUT, IF YOU STICK TO IT YOU CAN GET WHAT YOU NEED TO FINISH AND GET A RESIDENCY.

NOW STOP THIS BS ABOUT US SCHOOL OR IMGs AND GO STUDY.

 

[NonTradMed]

You know this is just not all true, many FMG's also prematch, since they are "outside" of the LCME then they can do this.

I know I have.

I was speaking in generalities. I've known quite a few FMGs and this is what they told me. Is there a stigma in the views of PD for those that attended carribean schools vs. US MD schools? The tell me yes. Does that mean FMGs can't match? US FMGs will most certainly match because they have no language barriers and have done their rotations in this country and passed the boards. The question isn't that they match, it's whether they match at good programs, and from what I've seen and heard from other FMGs, they are at a disadvantage as compared to a US MD.

 

[davidgareau]

NOW STOP THIS BS ABOUT US SCHOOL OR IMGs AND GO STUDY. - SIR, YES SIR.!!!

 

[oldpro]

I was speaking in generalities. I've known quite a few FMGs and this is what they told me. Is there a stigma in the views of PD for those that attended carribean schools vs. US MD schools? The tell me yes. Does that mean FMGs can't match? US FMGs will most certainly match because they have no language barriers and have done their rotations in this country and passed the boards. The question isn't that they match, it's whether they match at good programs, and from what I've seen and heard from other FMGs, they are at a disadvantage as compared to a US MD.

Yea I do agree there is a stigma for the match with some Program Directors, but some PD's that ARE FMGs from the Caribbean too, I know this is true.

So as more FMG's do well and get into these places the more it will be accepted, the Caribbean medschools are what only 25 years old at the most?

It takes time to change views in Medicine, sometimes centuries ( done any good bleeding for the "bad Humors?") LOL.

 

[erichaj]

NOW STOP THIS BS ABOUT US SCHOOL OR IMGs AND GO STUDY. - SIR, YES SIR.!!!

NOT.

Ok, stay sdn and argue about IMG and US grads till your face turns blue. don't study and don't get a better score on the MCAT or USMLE or whatever.

 

[oldpro]

NOW STOP THIS BS ABOUT US SCHOOL OR IMGs AND GO STUDY. - SIR, YES SIR.!!!

Welcome to SDN LOL It should be "US MEDICAL STUDENTS AND PREMEDS RULE" web site. Can't you tell? They hate Caribbean students. LOL.

Truth is not tolerated on this site.

 

[Hexanol]

Welcome to SDN LOL It should be "US MEDICAL STUDENTS AND PREMEDS RULE" web site. Can't you tell? They hate Caribbean students. LOL.

Truth is not tolerated on this site.

I recently heard that not all carribean schools are accrediated.
is this true?

I know of AUC, Ross, St. George that are. what other schools are there?

 

[McGillGrad]

I recently heard that not all carribean schools are accrediated.
is this true?

I know of AUC, Ross, St. George that are. what other schools are there?

The real question should be, "Who is the accrediting body?"

I will save you the time. There is no accrediting body. At very best, Caribbean schools can be recognized by the WHO. That's about it.

The person who you heard this from is clueless.

 

[jawicobike]

I can get into a US med school.... I am not worried about that, I just like to know my options. But in all honesty I think that many of the people on this board are probably the really really good medical students. So, I am curious and please don't think to badly about me for asking it...

If you can get into a US medical school what reasons would possess you to go caribbean? Seriously why would someone do this?

 

[McGillGrad]

If you can get into a US medical school what reasons would possess you to go caribbean? Seriously why would someone do this?

Seriously

 

[jackbnimble]

I really dont think it is fare to say that FMG's get crappy rotation spots or bottom of the barrel residency positions. .

Maybe it's not fare (sic,) but if you spell fair that way, you do make his/her point.

jackb

 

[McGillGrad]

Maybe it's not fare (sic,) but if you spell fair that way, you do make his/her point.

jackb

I am not trying to be anal but writing "his/her" is improper use of formal grammar

Glass house, my friend, glass houses...

 

[oldpro]

I recently heard that not all carribean schools are accrediated.
is this true?

I know of AUC, Ross, St. George that are. what other schools are there?

Really? How? Are you saying LCME? I don't think so, they claim accreditation by WHO but that is a lie, WHO recognises and lists only. You can read it on the WHO site in print.

 

[Orthodoc40]

If you can get into a US medical school what reasons would possess you to go caribbean? Seriously why would someone do this?

Because they don't like the letters "D.O." after their name.
(They will claim they don't really agree w/the "DO philosophy", however.)

Okay - okay. I'm not trying to fight. Those are the only reasons I could think of that would make someone want to do it. Give me some real reasons, why you chose Carib over DO schools? - because I do want to know! Try to convince me to do the same. I want to know why I should move to another country when I can get the same education at a US DO school??

 

[NonTradMed]

Because they don't like the letters "D.O." after their name.
(They will claim they don't really agree w/the "DO philosophy", however.)

Okay - okay. I'm not trying to fight. Those are the only reasons I could think of that would make someone want to do it. Give me some real reasons, why you chose Carib over DO schools? - because I do want to know! Try to convince me to do the same. I want to know why I should move to another country when I can get the same education at a US DO school??

The MD thing for means a lot for some people I think. Surgery residencies does discriminate against DOs I've heard so that could also be it. It's ok to get hung up by the MD degree. It's what society expects doctors to be and some people just can't stand the idea of having to tell people what DO is. To others, they are afraid it's a mark that they couldn't get into a 'real' medical school. Just recently, a DO doc was in the news, and the journalist couldn't figure out what a DO was, kept on calling the guy an 'osteopath' (as if the guy was distinct from a 'real' doctor), and mentioned the guy was into 'holistic' medicine.

 

[Orthodoc40]

The MD thing for means a lot for some people I think. Surgery residencies does discriminate against DOs I've heard so that could also be it. It's ok to get hung up by the MD degree. It's what society expects doctors to be and some people just can't stand the idea of having to tell people what DO is. To others, they are afraid it's a mark that they couldn't get into a 'real' medical school. Just recently, a DO doc was in the news, and the journalist couldn't figure out what a DO was, kept on calling the guy an 'osteopath' (as if the guy was distinct from a 'real' doctor), and mentioned the guy was into 'holistic' medicine.

Fair enough.
Though I've talked to a few program directors for ortho residencies and they've all said although there was only a small chance they'd take a DO student, there was "no way" they would rank an FMG. That suggests to me that there is a harder time for FMGs to get the surgical residencies than the DO's. But it is a small sampling. I think there are individual examples of both doing very well for themselves, given the right circumstance.

 

[jawicobike]

I'm not asking why someone would choose carribean over DO I'm asking why someone would choose Carribean over US MD as the OP is insinuating.

 

[McGillGrad]

I'm not asking why someone would choose carribean over DO I'm asking why someone would choose Carribean over US MD as the OP is insinuating.

There are several possible reasons. First, the person could be gifted and determined enough to succeed anywhere. Second, they would like to spend 2 years in the Caribbean while studying. Third, they have great connections that guarantee a nice placement in the US after medical school. Finally, they realize that in Nietzschean terms we are victims of our own pre-constructed paradigms and categorizations.

In simpler terms, the journey is more important than the destination when it comes to medicine and your life as a Carib MD is only restricted as much as you allow it to be restricted by other's false views.

 

[Orthodoc40]

There are several possible reasons. First, the person could be gifted and determined enough to succeed anywhere. Second, they would like to spend 2 years in the Caribbean while studying. Third, they have great connections that guarantee a nice placement in the US after medical school. Finally, they realize that in Nietzschean terms we are victims of our own pre-constructed paradigms and categorizations.

In simpler terms, the journey is more important than the destination when it comes to medicine and your life as a Carib MD is only restricted as much as you allow it to be restricted by other's false views.

I might chose it since I'm dying to see if the water really looks like the pictures in person! And I can't seem to find a time to do a vacation down there, so it really takes care of two things I want to get off of my 'to do' list.

 

[bookselb]

hi
let s just say that I am enraged into writing a reply after seeing the reply from the US med student from 'the top 20' school. Let me just say that I am also from one of the 'top 20 US medical schools' ,apparently a very cushy place to be from, a place that allows you to turn up your so-special nose at issues you know nothing about. why this replier, someone from such an exalted position is perusing this forum that is so definitely 'beneath' him and to no personal advantage, is poking his nose with sentences with just his unresearched opinion beats me... makes me wonder if he/she is really he/she claims to be.

one thing I need to emphasize to the person who posted the initial message, your question is a very well thought out, excellent question. one I wish that I had thought of before embarking on this path to 'excellence' at the cost of the things i value most in life.. that is.. 'life'. one thing i was not prepared for, before entering medical school... is that med students are a different breed of people. different in the sense as in 'smart' or 'efficient' or 'goal driven'? i was in for a surprise. most med students have a warped sense of reality exihibited in these overly concrete statements such as 'people on this website can't handle the truth etc.' they believe that 'top 20' means a lot, that 'US MD' is a great advantage etc. when you really get down to getting a residency, after working your ass off your third year and fourth, you find yourself asking why you put up with so much crap going to a US program when these IMGs who are your bosses, who are making the same money as you, have the same skill sets and knowledge as you, have better friends, have happier lives and less of the 'killer go getter instincts' that make some of the 'great' US med students very unattractive and tiresome. Be prepared however, while in med school, having to have to deal with over-generalizing, over-relying on statistics and a general sense of entitlement to everything. med schools in the US also make people into brown-nosing weasles that makes it necessary for people to poke fun at other people, make derogatory comments at others quoting statistics and 'gossiping' that is what med students do to fill up their lack of a real life. this is true not just in me the US i think, but in the whole world.
there is nothing a med student loves other than another group of people, or a category they can look down on 'evidence based' terms.

this also is a harsh view of med students. hey.. i also had to suffer through the exalted rite of passage of a 'us med student'. have pity on me.
so please don't be discouraged by anything that is from the grapewine. remember... it s a tortured bunch of souls desperate to find fault with anything. finding fault is one thing we are great at. we are NOT optimistic.
so don't expect the advice you get to be so. make your own conclusions after looking at valid, double checked statistics(there are lies, damn lies and statistics) and unbiased observations.
residencies are given to the best candidates, and yes, this IS the US. so the US candidates will be given the first choice. that is so in EVERY country in the world. if the US is the place you want to be, then go for it with everything you have. however, the US premed students have the advantage of having 'second chance programs' and being able to pick and chose what kind of program they want to go into..THAT I think is the greatest advantage. make sure you go into truly supportive program... again...DON'T believe the gusings of people who want to promote their own school so that they feel good about themselves. talk to a good cross section and come to your own decision.

great good luck. our worst enemies are ourselves, who are so full of themselves. talk to many people for their own observations, and read unbiased publications. your decision will be as good as your research and the ability to wade through the crap.

 

[RossFamily]

Maybe it's not fare (sic,) but if you spell fair that way, you do make his/her point.

jackb

u trie typig with thre kidz hangin off of u.

 

[erichaj]

I'm not asking why someone would choose carribean over DO I'm asking why someone would choose Carribean over US MD as the OP is insinuating.

Well then your asking a stupid question. Why WOULD someone choose to go to another country to learn medicine if they could do it in their own back yard?

You know the answer to that. Don't be a troll.

 

[SabaMed]

Because they don't like the letters "D.O." after their name.
(They will claim they don't really agree w/the "DO philosophy", however.)

Okay - okay. I'm not trying to fight. Those are the only reasons I could think of that would make someone want to do it. Give me some real reasons, why you chose Carib over DO schools? - because I do want to know! Try to convince me to do the same. I want to know why I should move to another country when I can get the same education at a US DO school??

I was accepted into 2 DO programs but yes I chose Saba over them. Yes it was a tough choice. I have several friends that are DO's and love it, They faced no problems getting matched and are doing great in their practice's. The reason I picked Saba for a MD is that the "average" uneducated patient doesn't know what a DO is. Most think a DO is a OD (eye doc). I didn't want anyone wondering what I am, period and I'm willing to risk not getting my 1st pick on a specialty. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Shinken]

The reason I picked Saba for a MD is that the "average" uneducated patient doesn't know what a DO is. Most think a DO is a OD (eye doc). I didn't want anyone wondering what I am, period and I'm willing to risk not getting my 1st pick on a specialty. Just my 2 cents worth.

You do realize that in the real world patients don't care, right?

I have yet to have any patient (not even one!) ask what a DO is. As a matter of fact, it would be awfully silly for someone to call, set up an appointment, sit in the exam room half naked, and when the Doc entered the room say "by the way, what's a DO?"

Patients see all sorts of initials after a doctor's name. MD, DO, FACEP, FACOI, FFFODOOE, FAAFP, etc. etc. You might have put your future goals in jeopardy simply because you spend too much time reading SDN instead of out there. This "I don't want to explain my whole life what a DO is" is one of the greatest myths ever created in these pages.

 

[erichaj]

I was accepted into 2 DO programs but yes I chose Saba over them. Yes it was a tough choice. I have several friends that are DO's and love it, They faced no problems getting matched and are doing great in their practice's. The reason I picked Saba for a MD is that the "average" uneducated patient doesn't know what a DO is. Most think a DO is a OD (eye doc). I didn't want anyone wondering what I am, period and I'm willing to risk not getting my 1st pick on a specialty. Just my 2 cents worth.

I think you are officially the first person EVER that chose to go to the caribean to get a medical education when they could have done it in the USA.

I don't mean to be rude, but, WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING?

 

[jawicobike]

Well then your asking a stupid question. Why WOULD someone choose to go to another country to learn medicine if they could do it in their own back yard?

Really what is that reason? I have nothing better to do with my time than troll...gimme me a break. This isn't a DO vs US vs FMG thread so don't try to make it look like I'm trying to make it that way. I am curious as to whether there are any real reasons for one to choose to go carribean instead of USMD (like maybe to follow a spouse or SO who didn't get into a USMD).

 

[WestcoastMedicine]

Although for certain specialties there are not many Osteopathic Residencies, there are a fair number of them. A 4th year DO student can apply to both matches, the Osteopathic Match takes place about a month prior to the ACGME match. If you are getting interview to both programs great, if you match at an Osteopathic Residency, you are automatically pulled from the ACGME match. Some view this as an advantage to FMG as you have the "potential" access to more programs. At PCOM, I don't know about the other schools, many of our students match into competitive residency programs at PCOM (ortho, urology, plastics, ENT, Derm, Optho, Radiology, Gen Surg, EMED, etc....) as well as throughout Pennsylvania at DO and MD residencies. Pennsylvania has one of the largest Osteopathic populations so there is little discrimination that I have seen, although I am sure it does exist. Again, I am only speaking for PA as we have two DO schools and an abundant number of Osteopathic Physicians and thus are accepted at most places. I know people will disagree, but last year one of our grades matched Derm at UPENN, I really didn't know any fourth years(only two) so that is the only match I am aware of besides the other fourth year I knew who matched IMED at an Osteopathic Program.

Is this enough of a reason to choice DO or carib? That is up for you to decide. However, if you feel like you will not enjoy OMT or utilize it, I would probably tell you not to come here. A large number of DOs don't use it, although everyone claims we have better Physical Diagnostic skills(take it for what its worth). I enjoy OMT and use it quite often on family and my peers with musculoskeletal complaints and am tired of people in DO schools criticizing it. Its great that DOs are seen as an equal alternative to allopathic schools, but if you really have a problem with OMM, then don't go to an osteopathic school. Just my 2 cents

 

[SabaMed]

Let me get this straight, I in no way look down upon DO's and think they make some of the best Physicans out there. For me this was a personal choice and I can understand why most people don't get it. Since I've been here there actually hasn't been one day that I wished I had stayed in the states and done DO. I actually really like it here and think I made the right choice. Now if you think the caribbean is going to easy and the classes are full of rejects your in for a big surprise. I would say that some of these students are the smartest, brightest people I have ever met and I'm very humbled to be with them. Most of the students would be at the top of the class at any medical college. Why did they choose Saba? Everyone has their own reasons, some are older, some are already professionals like PT's, PA's, RN's and a couple chiropractors, some didn't want to test the waters of the candian system and wait to get in and others like me performed lack luster on the MCAT (which I think a 29 is pretty good in my opinon). So what I'm saying is make the choice you best feel is right for you. If DO is your calling then do it and if a MD is what you want then do it.

 

[neurodoc]

I think you are officially the first person EVER that chose to go to the caribean to get a medical education when they could have done it in the USA.

I don't mean to be rude, but, WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING?

I have to agree. One reason to make that choice whould be that the Carib school was cheaper to attend than the US DO school. I suppose this could be the case, but I'm not sure if the Carib schools are cheaper. Or maybe you'd chose the Carib school because you wanted to study in a foreign country and have to jump through extra hoops to come back to the US to get into a residency and get a license to practice medicine?

I'm not a troll. I went to Italy to study medicine over 20 years ago. After graduating from college I applied to about 10 medical schools and got one acceptance at a US MD school, which charged nearly $25K per year tuition. I decided to go to Italy and got accepted at a school that charged less than $1K per year tuition... I attended for two years and transferred back to a public US MD school as a 3rd year student in my home State, where the tuition was about $4K per year. I graduated two years later (1990) with a US MD. My total indebtedness (college and med school) was about $26K, and I paid off all the loans within 8 years. Had I gone to that private US school, I'd have been more than $100K in debt, and would still be paying that off.

So, the financial considerations are important, and they might lead a US college graduate to consider enrolling in a foreign medical program. When I decided to go to europe to study medicine I also considered the Carib schools. Unfortunately they were at least as expensive to attend as the more expensive US schools, so it was easy for me to make my choice.

Nick

 

[erichaj]

Really what is that reason? I have nothing better to do with my time than troll...gimme me a break. This isn't a DO vs US vs FMG thread so don't try to make it look like I'm trying to make it that way. I am curious as to whether there are any real reasons for one to choose to go carribean instead of USMD (like maybe to follow a spouse or SO who didn't get into a USMD).

Reasons why someone would go to IMG program vs US program:

1. Could not get into US program.
2. Could not get into US program.
3. Could not get into US program.
4. Never tried to get into US program.
5. Though they could not get in because they never tried.
6. Got kicked out of a US program.
7. Older students who don't want to go through the time process.
8. Follow a spouse.
9. All of the above.

And of course,
DRUM ROLL PLEASE

10. Did not want DO in front of their name.

 

[utorontograd]

Reasons why someone would go to IMG program vs US program:

1. Could not get into US program.
2. Could not get into US program.
3. Could not get into US program.
4. Never tried to get into US program.
5. Though they could not get in because they never tried.
6. Got kicked out of a US program.
7. Older students who don't want to go through the time process.
8. Follow a spouse.
9. All of the above.

And of course,
DRUM ROLL PLEASE

10. Did not want DO in front of their name.

You're probably right in the great majority of cases. Add Canadian program to items 1 through 6 for anyone north of the border and some U.S students.

Item 7. should be changed to older students are more likely to be discriminated against because of their age in the U.S. rather thank trying to save 4-6 months.

8,9,10 make sense to me. I don't think this it is a big secret that offshore schools are an alternative. I think there is a long way to go before students are actively choosing offshore schools in the Caribbean over mainland ones.

By the way, nobody commented on the post by the jaded U.S med student. I'm not going to quote it. It's the longest one in this thread but I think it's worth another read. She had a lot of valid points about the experience of medicine.