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HooksHook

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Would you rather be a 3.0 / 25 AA vs 3.5 / 20AA
extremely extreme vs. exteremly average
just curious
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3.5/20 AA. Solid gpa + solid dat > very mediocre gpa + great DAT.
 
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Best to be 3.5/25 AA, the suitors will be lining up at your door.
 
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Jokes aside, 3.5 gpa with a 20AA i think is better
 
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3.0 and 25 AA. Why you mask ask? Because doing a one year SMP would make up for the 3.0 GPA and assure getting into your state school which will save you hundreds of thousands of dollars.


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^Nothing is ever guaranteed in this world.
 
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Ollivander said:
3.0 and 25 AA. Why you mask ask? Because doing a one year SMP would make up for the 3.0 GPA and assure getting into your state school which will save you hundreds of thousands of dollars.


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The point is to not have to do a $25k SMP.

3.5 gpa + 20 AA >
 
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cacajuate said:
The point is to not have to do a $25k SMP.

3.5 gpa + 20 AA >
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True but some people just can't take standardized tests and do well. I've seen very intelligent people with ~4.0 GPA do terrible on standardized tests. I believe spending $25,000 to save $200,000 is worth it. It's easier to rebound from a 3.0 GPA than it is from an awful test score. I'm not saying 20 AA is awful, but I'd take a 25 AA with a 3.0 versus a 18 AA with a 4.0.
 
Ollivander said:
True but some people just can't take standardized tests and do well. I've seen very intelligent people with ~4.0 GPA do terrible on standardized tests. I believe spending $25,000 to save $200,000 is worth it at that point.
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You can't possibly think spending 25K and devoting at least a year of your life to an SMP is better studying and retaking the DAT. I mean, you could spend 10K on the best DAT tutor and still come out ahead.

Plus there is no guarantee that you would do well in the SMP courses.
 
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kholley25 said:
You can't possibly think spending 25K and devoting at least a year of your life to an SMP is better studying and retaking the DAT. I mean, you could spend 10K on the best DAT tutor and still come out ahead.

Plus there is no guarantee that you would do well in the SMP courses.
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That is true, but here's the conundrum. This topic is essentially asking if you'd rather have a deficiency on your test score or your GPA right? If I know for a fact that I can take a 25 AA I would take that all day and do the SMP. A 25 AA is well within the 99th percentile of DAT scores. I'd rather opt for that known quantity and choose the SMP than an 18 AA or worse. Why? You only have three chances in a lifetime on the DAT, and the more times you take it the worse off it looks from an admissions committee's standpoint. Some schools even average your DAT scores if you take it more than once. You have multiple opportunities in a lifetime to improve your academic standing in terms of a GPA and continuing your education, whereas the same cannot be said about a DAT score. I stand by my statement in saying I'd choose the 25 AA if I was put in a position where I had to make a choice. Just because you blow $10,000 on a DAT tutor doesn't mean it's going to result in a vastly improved score. To each their own though.
 
I am sure you've heard a lot of people here in SDN with a subpar GPA such as a 3.0, but their DAT is remarkable -- 24 AA and 25 AA. Those individuals applied to 25 schools and received an average of 2-4 interviews and the individuals that were completely average received 6-8 interviews. I would even prefer a 3.8 / 18 AA vs a 3.0 / 25 AA.

Of course, there are intangible factors such as personal statements, volunteers, and etc.


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RuffDay said:
I am sure you've heard a lot of people here in SDN with a subpar GPA such as a 3.0, but their DAT is remarkable -- 24 AA and 25 AA. Those individuals applied to 25 schools and received an average of 2-4 interviews and the individuals that were completely average received 6-8 interviews. I would even prefer a 3.8 / 18 AA vs a 3.0 / 25 AA.

Of course, there are intangible factors such as personal statements, volunteers, and etc.


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Click to expand...

Ayyyyy.
 
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3.2 gpa (rounded up) 24AA more than willing to trade for a 20AA and 3.5 or 18AA and 3.8. I'll even throw in a backrub. Pls.
 
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Edited
 
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3.5 GPA/20 AA easily

It's pretty easy to retake the test, but it's pretty hard to get that GPA up.
 
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Scumbag_Steve said:
I am one of the subpar GPA and 25 AA people an I can tell you that honestly I would prefer my situation. I was really not hassled about my GPA at all.
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Didn't you have like a 3.4? That's much better and very different than having a 3.0 lol.

Anyway, 3.5 and 20AA all the way. If you're average GPA and DAT, your ECs, LoRs, PS, whatever can shine and you'll be fine. If those are the approximate average accepted scores, they won't really hurt you. Something below average easily could, though
 
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pgex2t said:
3.2 gpa (rounded up) 24AA more than willing to trade for a 20AA and 3.5 or 18AA and 3.8. I'll even throw in a backrub. Pls.
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Pay for my dental school education and it's a deal :)
 
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Scumbag_Steve said:
Depends on if you ask AADSAS or my actual college transcript, but yes, AADSAS says 3.41
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Like you said, your DAT was a 25AA. Clearly, you're brilliant. They'd be crazy to NOT take you!
 
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.
 
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A Pre-dent said:
I think @Scumbag_Steve and I agree on a lot of things. ;) Between the two options, I would take a 3.0 GPA / 25 DAT.

First of all, a 3.0 could be straight B's rather than A's balanced with C-'s, and that is good enough to get into many dental schools. Secondly, the whole point of the DAT is to give adcoms a standard measurement of academic ability. Someone with a high GPA and average DAT scores most likely received a mediocre education, benefited from unjustified grade-inflation, or grubbed for exam grades without actually absorbing the material. There's not necessarily something wrong with that--this person may be a driven student who is making the best of the opportunities he/she has. But I should think that DAT scores, if they serve their intended purpose, better reflect academic ability relevant to dental education than undergrad GPA.

However, I have a hypothesis that the most complete answer depends on the type of dental school. Based on anecdotal evidence and differences in admissions criteria between different types of schools, I think the low GPA / high DAT gives you a better chance of getting accepted to the most competitive private schools, but high GPA / average (accepted) DAT gets you into more schools on the whole.

This is because a few schools (since I applied to schools in the Northeast, e.g. Harvard, Columbia, Penn) list the rigor/reputation of your undergrad program as an admissions criterion, but most other schools will explicitly say that they do not consider major or "school name." Therefore, the most competitive private schools can be more forgiving of low GPA in their "holistic" assessment of a particular kind of applicant, especially because they recruit for intellectual and racial diversity moreso than state and regional-private schools. Specifically, I know for a fact that the three schools I listed here favor liberal arts students who 'think outside the box.' They also like hardcore engineering students, people devoted to humanitarianism, promising URMs, etc., all of whom may have lower GPAs due to their calculated educational choices. The average dental school, on the other hand, likes 'normal' applicants who are personable and academically consistent--but not necessarily geniuses--because they won't 'rock the boat' too much in dental school and it is a safe bet that they will become good general dentists.

Of course, this is a hypothesis, not a theory, and it is probably impossible to generalize in a meaningful way. I'm just throwing my thoughts out there for comment.
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Every time I read your posts, I always want to tell you it seems like you have a good head on your shoulders :)
I think your point is interesting, but could also kind of go the other way; not everyone with a higher GPA got it through begging for points or going to a grade-inflating school. And, although 20 is a respectable score for a DAT, we all know it's nerve-wracking to have your future rely on one test with a bunch of random questions. Yes, you can take it again, but it'd be hard to justify doing that when you get a 20 (we all know SDN would not advise a retake). I'll agree that hardcore engineering students will likely have lower GPAs, but people devoted to humanitarianism or promising URMs or people with weird hobbies or majors, etc can still maintain high GPAs. I think that's why it's important to look at the rest of an application, too.
I just feel like a 3.0 is a very borderline GPA. if the question gave us a 3.2 or 3.3 to work with, people's answers might be different.
 
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RuffDay said:
I am sure you've heard a lot of people here in SDN with a subpar GPA such as a 3.0, but their DAT is remarkable -- 24 AA and 25 AA. Those individuals applied to 25 schools and received an average of 2-4 interviews and the individuals that were completely average received 6-8 interviews. I would even prefer a 3.8 / 18 AA vs a 3.0 / 25 AA.

Of course, there are intangible factors such as personal statements, volunteers, and etc.


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Click to expand...
My friend has a 3.8 and an 18 AA and got one interview. He also had a very great well rounded application. I had a 3.0 and a 22 and got 5 interviews. We also applied to the same amount of schools, even the same ones, At the same exact time.


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DENTALSCHNEEZ811 said:
My friend has a 3.8 and an 18 AA and got one interview. He also had a very great well rounded application. I had a 3.0 and a 22 and got 5 interviews. We also applied to the same amount of schools, even the same ones, At the same exact time.


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Click to expand...

3.8 + 18 is vastly different than 4.0 + 20
 
Personally, I think the DAT should be weighed more heavily than a GPA.

Individual institutions may grade deflate or grade inflate.
The DAT is a standardized that can be used to compare applicants on an even playing field.

DENTALSCHNEEZ811 said:
My friend has a 3.8 and an 18 AA and got one interview. He also had a very great well rounded application. I had a 3.0 and a 22 and got 5 interviews. We also applied to the same amount of schools, even the same ones, At the same exact time.
Click to expand...

What about LoRs/ECs/Personal Statements? Those are quite critical parts of the application and could have also explained for this difference.
 
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A Pre-dent said:
I think @Scumbag_Steve and I agree on a lot of things. ;) Between the two options, I would take a 3.0 GPA / 25 DAT.

First of all, a 3.0 could be straight B's rather than A's balanced with C-'s, and that is good enough to get into many dental schools.
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Wouldn't C's balanced out by A's look better (Assuming C's in the beginning and A's later) than straight B's?
The later A's would show you're more capable???
 
Scumbag_Steve said:
Or maybe the person with a 3.5/25 AA got into Harvard because they, worried about themselves, worked hard, and got in where they wanted without complaining about others or blaming their failures on the admissions process.

Not trying to start SDNs 50th URM debate, but damn dude, let it go. I'll say it again, I'm a straight white male from a high income family and I managed just fine. Nobody was out to get me in the big bad unfair admissions process just because I'm "over-represented"
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Exactly. If you WORK YOUR TAIL OFF you should be able to get into multiple schools and have your pick. Have the strongest application possible and don't cut corners. I come from the same background as you and the only reason I'm in the position I am today is because I sacrificed A LOT. I honestly didn't think I'd get into dental school freshman year. I don't feel bad for anyone who doesn't go above and beyond yet complains about admissions being unfair. You want something? Go work for it.
 
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drubbles said:
Wouldn't C's balanced out by A's look better (Assuming C's in the beginning and A's later) than straight B's?
The later A's would show you're more capable???
Click to expand...

I had a very similar question to this as well.
ASSUMING two very similar GPA's, would all A's and B's with a couple of C's/D's mixed in look more favorable, or would all B's with a few A's/C's mixed in look more favorable? Basically what I'm asking is which would look more favorable, having both extreme ends of the grading scale, or playing around the middle of it somewhere, assuming very similar GPA?
I know none of us here are the adcom people (or are there...? lol), but just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts.
 
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lazyindy said:
throw in URM status and Harvard is likely
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Scumbag_Steve said:
Or maybe the person with a 3.5/25 AA got into Harvard because they, worried about themselves, worked hard, and got in where they wanted without complaining about others or blaming their failures on the admissions process.

Not trying to start SDNs 50th URM debate, but damn dude, let it go. I'll say it again, I'm a straight white male from a high income family and I managed just fine. Nobody was out to get me in the big bad unfair admissions process just because I'm "over-represented"
Click to expand...
JLT223 said:
Exactly. If you WORK YOUR TAIL OFF you should be able to get into multiple schools and have your pick. Have the strongest application possible and don't cut corners. I come from the same background as you and the only reason I'm in the position I am today is because I sacrificed A LOT. I honestly didn't think I'd get into dental school freshman year. I don't feel bad for anyone who doesn't go above and beyond yet complains about admissions being unfair. You want something? Go work for it.
Click to expand...

Yeah! What they said!:poke:

But seriously.:hijacked:
 
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drubbles said:
Would you rather be a 3.0 / 25 AA vs 3.5 / 20AA
extremely extreme vs. exteremly average
just curious
Click to expand...

The answer to your question depends on the school you are applying to.
If you are looking into UoP or UNLV then a 3.0 GPA and 25 DAT score would be more competitive, since they put weight on the DAT.
If you are looking at schools with high GPA averages like Iowa, Case Western, Nova, Utah, a 3.5 GPA and 20 DAT is better.
 
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Incis0r said:
Personally, I think the DAT should be weighed more heavily than a GPA.

Individual institutions may grade deflate or grade inflate.
The DAT is a standardized that can be used to compare applicants on an even playing field.



What about LoRs/ECs/Personal Statements? Those are quite critical parts of the application and could have also explained for this difference.
Click to expand...

We literally both had great personal statements we worked on them together, I thought he had better LOR's than me, and we both had excellent EC's, we were involved in pretty much the same orgs
 
DENTALSCHNEEZ811 said:
We literally both had great personal statements we worked on them together, I thought he had better LOR's than me, and we both had excellent EC's, we were involved in pretty much the same orgs
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Aight awesome. Thank you :)
Congrats on a successful cycle, and I hope your friend sees some success as well :)
 
Ollivander said:
A 25 AA is well within the 99th percentile of DAT scores. I'd rather opt for that known quantity and choose the SMP than an 18 AA or worse. Why? You only have three chances in a lifetime on the DAT, and the more times you take it the worse off it looks from an admissions committee's standpoint.
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You can take the DAT more than 3 times you just have to apply for permission. I just like clarifying this because its one of the things I went and looked up myself before I took the DAT and came out unscathed.
 
doktorinprogres said:
You can take the DAT more than 3 times you just have to apply for permission. I just like clarifying this because its one of the things I went and looked up myself before I took the DAT and came out unscathed.
Click to expand...
Anyone who needs to take it more than 3 times has some serious soul searching to do
 
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