what to look for in programs

[cyclops]

Hi Dr. Doan and everyone else,

I am relatively new to the forum. This forum is amazing, Ive been browsing it but I had some questions.
1. I was browsing through the program listings, and I was wondering if anyone had a good system of looking at the programs that are not top 10, and somehow evaluating the negative/positives of each, so to pick ones to apply to.
2. Does not being a California resident play a huge role in matching to a California program?
3. I had the opportunity to do 2 away ophtho electives at top 5 schools and I was able to get letters from both; however, i have not done a formal elective at my school, which i am doing in September. I already have 3 letters with my medicine letter, is it going to hurt me to wait for the letter from my school?
4. How many total schools should one apply to? Is there a calendar somewhere that indicates when all schools interview, so not to pick 2 schools that interview on the same day?

Thanks for all your help. I sincerely appreciate it.

-Cyclops.

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[guttata]

Hi Dr. Doan and everyone else,

I am relatively new to the forum. This forum is amazing, Ive been browsing it but I had some questions.
1. I was browsing through the program listings, and I was wondering if anyone had a good system of looking at the programs that are not top 10, and somehow evaluating the negative/positives of each, so to pick ones to apply to.

I'm sure others can contribute as well....but I looked at -
a. atmosphere/environment of the program - friendliness of attendings,
residents can go a long way in your education, IMO. You will be
spending three years with them.
b. surgical volume (are they just doing the bare minimum? do residents
have to be sent out-of-state or out-of-country to get surgeries)
c. amount of pathology (variety)
d. autonomy vs. supervision (some programs are known to give more or
less independence/teaching to residents - it depends what you are
looking for)
e. depth of coverage in all sub-specialties
f. strength of subspecialty you are interested in (some programs are
known to have lots of trauma and thus place many residents into
oculoplastics)
g. OKAP scores - I think this is more resident driven then residency
driven. However, there may be a general trend.
h. teaching - is there protected lecture time?
i. fellowship placement, particularly in the field you want to enter
j. stability of the program (chairman) - though there is some turnover,
you should beware of programs with unfilled chairmanships
k. exposure to VA system (will increase your surgical numbers, pathology
-I think this is pretty important)
l. research vs clinical - what type of program do you want to join?
-are you looking for an academic career
-some programs require research
m. miscellaneous - book fund, conference travel, lenses, academy books,
other perks.




2. Does not being a California resident play a huge role in matching to a California program?

IMO, there is some East vs West coast bias. As an easterner, I had a hard time getting interviews on the West coast, but I did fine with interviews in the SE and Texas.

3. I had the opportunity to do 2 away ophtho electives at top 5 schools and I was able to get letters from both; however, i have not done a formal elective at my school, which i am doing in September. I already have 3 letters with my medicine letter, is it going to hurt me to wait for the letter from my school?

I cannot comment much on this. But if your rotation ends in late Sept, you probably will not be able to get a letter until mid-late Oct. This is pretty late in the app. cycle since programs offer interviews from late-Sept, Early Oct onwards. Slots for interviews tend to fill very quickly, with few cancellations.


4. How many total schools should one apply to? Is there a calendar somewhere that indicates when all schools interview, so not to pick 2 schools that interview on the same day?


Avg number of apps was 41 last year. I spoke to many people on the interview trail that applied to 50+. Personally, I applied to 50+ although I thought my application was fairly strong. I was just scared of not matching.
The trends seems to be to apply to more schools and to attend as many interviews as possible (>12). SFmatch has a calendar of interview dates for registered users, but I would not use that as a sole criteria for application. Apply to as many as you can now and worry about interview conflicts later. An extra 400-500$ will be nothing in your career.

 

[Morton]

2. Does not being a California resident play a huge role in matching to a California program?

IMO, there is some East vs West coast bias. As an easterner, I had a hard time getting interviews on the West coast, but I did fine with interviews in the SE and Texas.

I'm just wondering how such a bias might work. Using my case as an example, I was born in CA, went to UCLA, and am now in the midwest for med school. Is there a way to convince programs I'm a Californian, or am I stuck in the midwest/east? The only thing programs would really see is where you've gone to school, and I doubt they pay as much attention to undergrad.

I'm also assuming it has a good deal to do with, as someone mentioned in a previous thread, the people who wrote your letters, who they know, and that they are more likely to know people in their region.

I guess it could always be addressed in interviews...

Thanks.

PS. If anyone knows how to quote properly let me know, since I obviously don't know how the hell to do it.

 

[Redhawk]

I think the California bias applies mostly to those who have spent there whole lives in the east/midwest. I imagine you would have much better luck.

 

[JR]

Being a Californian and just having gone through the interview cycle I can give you some perspective on the situation in CA. In is obvious that CA spots are highly sought after for various reasons. Some schools do seem to prefer CA applicants, but that is not true every year and not true at all programs. Look at UCSF- most residents are from the East Coast. Only a few CA applicants received UCSF interviews last cycle (at least the ones I knew or I have met on the interview trail). USC is an interesting program- >80% of residents are from Ivy league schools, only a few from somewhere else. UCLA has a broad spectrum of residents; I think they are truely trying to recruit the future academic leaders of the field and look broadly for this reason. UCI is a coming up program and a great place to be, so they get good applicants; they have residents from all over, only occasionally they will accept someone from UCI or other CA school. UC Davis and UCSD seem like they prefer CA applicants over others, but, again, that's not a hard rule. I don't know much about Stanford or Cal Pacific.

That's my 0.02

 

[Elephantitan]

I agree with basically everything Guttata said, although I don't think the extras such as lenses and books should really pay much part in the decision and I'm sure that's why he put it at letter "m". Kind of like spending the extra $ to go on more interviews, the money you spend on the extras is peanuts compared to training and happiness with a program.
The only other thing I would add, and I think it's pretty important, is the gut factor. If you just have a good feeling about a place, I think that can be important. If you're from Buffalo and Birmingham makes you sqeamish or you're from LA and can't imagine Rochester, MN maybe you shouldn't go. If you don't see yourself happy at a program, for whatever reason, no matter the supposed prestige of the place, don't go. You won't want to excel if you aren't happy.

 

[mdkurt]

Two necessities:
1. VA hospital
2. Residents' clinic

 

[cyclops]

thanks everyone for your responses but i dont know if not having a letter from my home school is going to hurt me. i mean i can try to get a letter from the attending that ive worked with for the last 3 years, but i thought it would be better if i asked for it after i did an official rotation.

 

[blackwell]

A September rotation is late but if you let them know of your intention in getting a letter at the beginning of the rotation, you may be able to get it at the end and send it as a supplemental letter - assuming you have sent out your CAS before then. It may not be in time for some interview decisions but it will be a part of your whole app.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Two necessities:
1. VA hospital
2. Residents' clinic

The resident clinic should be discussed a little. Some programs teach residents by throwing them in there and other programs build up to it. You have to determine what you like and how you like to learn. At Iowa for instance, there are no resident clinics, but the attendings generate surgical cases for us. For instance, I'll have over 140 cataracts as the primary surgeon. However, each year we spend 10 weeks at the VA in our resident clinic with staff supervision. In our third year, we spend 20 weeks at the VA as the Chief. Clearly I'm biased, but the building up to autonomy with this system is very nice.

 

[nyeyes]

don't forget location, location, location.. a huge factor when choosing programs.. esp if u r married or serious w/ a partner.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

don't forget location, location, location.. a huge factor when choosing programs.. esp if u r married or serious w/ a partner.

I agree with this. One of the greatest factors influencing resident happiness is location. If you can't live in cold weather, for instance, then don't come to the mid-West.

 

[shredhog65]

things i looked for when i applied/ interviewed -

1. residents - were they happy or not, would you fit in with them
2. surgical numbers - find out how many you will get as the primary surgeon (some places say you get 150 cataracts but they count standing in the corner and watching as a case) and what types of cases (ie - make sure it's not 150 cataracts with no exposure to retina/ plastics/ glaucoma/ etc). ask the residents abou this. personally, i was very suspicious about programs that made you go to (or had an "optional rotation" in) another country or state for a month to do surgery.
3. fellowship/ job placement - do residents get good ones or do they struggle with this
4. faculty - will they teach you or are you just there to do their scutwork
5. location - speaks for itself, although you should consider going to a less desired location if the program is great - it will probably get you back to where you want to be.
6. academics - lectures/ wet labs/ etc - some places require saturday morning lectures - decide whether or not you are willing to have only one day off per week for your entire residency
7. call - are you willing to take in house call or not?
8. research - most programs require it, but to a different extent. decide how much research you want to do, and if academic medicine is important to you.
9. hospitals - programs with multiple hospitals will get you more surgery and a wider range of pathology. what i mean by this is that it is VA and county hospitals get you alot of rare/ end stage pathology an surgical experience. "nicer" hospitals show you what most of us will probably be doing out of residency. it is good to have both experiences.

there is a lot more, and no program is perfect. no matter what happens, be happy if you match somewhere. good luck to all the applicants this year.

 

[jkin]

Isn't this the perfect place for this information to be accumulated? Scutwork.com is real skimpy. There should be a thread here with this focus.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

I think people should provide more input about residency programs. Scutwork is the perfect place to do so. I can add the above info posted by Sredhog65 into the FAQ.

 

[Jaded Soul]

I think that First Aid for the Match has templates with things to look for that you can fill out when you visit programs. It addresses a lot of the things people have mentioned earlier in this thread. Is there anything similar online?