What to do if resident tells you to go home?

[HMSBeagle]

I was on call last week and 2 hours into it the resident told me to go home because it was a slow night. I told her I'd stay but she insisted that I leave. I left but I didn't feel comfortable doing so. Any advice for this situation if it presents in the future? Am I defrauding someone (ie: clerkship director)This is a very confusing situation!!!!

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[michaelrack]

you're not defrauding anyone, but you yourself are being deprived of a learning situation.

I would advise you, after offering once to stay, to just go home like you did. No point in creating waves.

 

[HMSBeagle]

Thanks. I'm worried that if the coordinator finds out he'll chew my ass but I just did as told.

 

[Colba55o]

you must just be starting 3rd year. We were told at the beginning of our 3rd yr by the 4th yrs that "when they tell you to go home, go home". I don't think that is necessarily true but rather, if your resident tells you to go home, don't feel like you will get brownie points if you insist on staying.
Of course if you genuinely wanted to stay, you could have offered to just hang around to get some reading done, just in case something cool came in. If she actually INSISTED that you go home though, I would do what she said. Its highly unlikely you will see anything in that one night that would truly impact your learning experience; although pissing her off could certainly do that

 

[ozzie20]

From an intern/resident perspective, when if I were to tell the student to go home, go home. You're not getting paid to stay on call, in fact, you're PAYING to be on call. When people are on call, you just wanna get the work done so you can get some sense of sleep, so its hard to give the students some teaching. Personally, I don't think its needed for the med students to ever take call, its kind of a waste. Yeah you could argue that it better prepares you for call etc etc, but EVERYONE will take call, no sense in rushing the inevitable, and you aren't really gonna learn all that much other than the fact that being up all night working isn't fun.

 

[HMSBeagle]

you must just be starting 3rd year. We were told at the beginning of our 3rd yr by the 4th yrs that "when they tell you to go home, go home". I don't think that is necessarily true but rather, if your resident tells you to go home, don't feel like you will get brownie points if you insist on staying.
Of course if you genuinely wanted to stay, you could have offered to just hang around to get some reading done, just in case something cool came in. If she actually INSISTED that you go home though, I would do what she said. Its highly unlikely you will see anything in that one night that would truly impact your learning experience; although pissing her off could certainly do that

I agree. I don't any special points or look like a tool. I'm afraid of what may come to me for leaving early even though technically they told me to.

 

[flumazenil]

I'll tell you what to do.
Resident: Slow night, you can go home. Catch up on reading, or anything else. See ya.
Student: Is there anything you would like done before I leave? Throw in some bull**** about this patient or that patient, or some small talk.. about the stuff you gotta do when you go home such as study a certain topic
Resident: Yea, you are all set, gonna be a slow night and even if it picks up its fine, just go home
Student: Thanks, I will see you ( whenever next is). Thanks. - Leave ASAP

you wont get brownie pts for lingering around or acting guilty for going home. Think of it as an order- sometimes just follow it. Now if you really want to be there- then explain to him/her why. Not that complicated now was that?

 

[Tired]

The good news is that most residents tell you to go home because they really want you to go home.

The bad news is that they're probably telling you to go home because they're not really interested in teaching you anything, you aren't much help, and they would prefer not to have you getting in their way.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'll tell you what to do.
Resident: Slow night, you can go home. Catch up on reading, or anything else. See ya.
Student: Is there anything you would like done before I leave? Throw in some bull**** about this patient or that patient, or some small talk.. about the stuff you gotta do when you go home such as study a certain topic
Resident: Yea, you are all set, gonna be a slow night and even if it picks up its fine, just go home
Student: Thanks, I will see you ( whenever next is). Thanks. - Leave ASAP

you wont get brownie pts for lingering around or acting guilty for going home. Think of it as an order- sometimes just follow it. Now if you really want to be there- then explain to him/her why. Not that complicated now was that?

Agree 100%. Make sure the resident knows you are ready, willing and able to stay on if there is anything else that would help him/her out. If they say, "no, it's cool", make like the wind, and blow out of there. You are going to have many many times when the reverse situation is true, and you are going to be kept at the hospital long after you really ought to be cut loose. So look at it as a wash -- you catch some breaks, and you will get stuck sometimes. Don't fight it. It's an ebb and flow.

 

[surrender903]

I agree. I don't any special points or look like a tool. I'm afraid of what may come to me for leaving early even though technically they told me to.

wait you re afraid of what may come to YOU when YOUR boss tells you go to go home? think about that for a second.

 

[HMSBeagle]

wait you re afraid of what may come to YOU when YOUR boss tells you go to go home? think about that for a second.

Yeah but only if the clerkship director finds out. If he doesn't I really don't care.

 

[surrender903]

so what if the director finds out.

the person in charge told you to go home. you were dismissed. thats how a job works. people say "go home."

 

[lil pook]

yup- just leave

but don't jump for joy when they tell you to do so

and don't feel guilty

guilty for what? call sux....and you will soon come to realize that

 

[JustPlainBill]

Agreed. Make like a shepherd and get the flock out of here.....however...

Had a unique situation today though....some other students on the same clerkship (different team) who hadn't been on call yet asked me what my call hours were like in front of the ATTENDING and RESIDENT....so I tried to be polite and tell them the start times (07:00 - 19:00) and when we were rounding again (0630 next day). Evidently they didn't get it and kept asking me about it so I just mentioned it was a 30 hour shift...no biggie.....

That's when they started lamenting how much it sucked, etc. I replied that I was learning a lot (I am) and it was good to be on a cool team (it is --- entire team from attending to interns are really great--- couldn't have asked for better).......

So after they left, I went over to the resident and talked about my general feelings on the topic ---

1) I'm part of the team --- granted, junior junior nonessential member right now --- but part of the team.

2) I stay or leave with the team. If we're here 36-48-72 whatever hours straight...guess what, I'm here....my life outside of work will have to wait.

3) I'm not looking to leave early or shuck and jive out of doing scutwork. I can learn just by watching my resident do an H&P...pick up little tips and tricks.....like I did today......I can learn from my attending showing me a CXR or how to draw ABGs.........

So, I've made up my mind that I'll take advantage of those learning opportunities I have available now....I can catch up on my sleep when I'm retired or dead......

YMMV and no warranties expressed or implied....

 

[Law2Doc]

2) I stay or leave with the team. If we're here 36-48-72 whatever hours straight...guess what, I'm here....my life outside of work will have to wait.

You may start out with this opinion, but pretty soon in your year you will come across a few residents who feel that the med students should show up an hour or two before the team gets there and finish up some scut an hour after the team leaves every call day, or an attending who shows up in the post-call-morning well rested and wants to round for six hours and your viewpoint might change. Your goal is to learn, but no reason to be a martyr about it. If someone tells you to go, after mild protestations of "are you sure there's nothing else you need help on", you go. Because more than a few times the reverse is going to be true and folks are going to be keeping you around for way too many hours of non-learning opportunities.

 

[crazylegs]

As a med student, I took the "protest once, and if they insist that I leave then I'll leave" approach, and I was all the more rested and appreciative for it. Because of that, I was able to catch up on patient-related reading, study for the shelf, work out, cook dinner, have an outside life a lot more often than I had anticipated.. and it made my 3rd and 4th years suck a lot less than they could have.

As an intern, I try to be very conscientious of that mindset, and I certainly don't think it hurts the medical students at all. If there's a lot going on that day and much for the student to learn, then they stay late. If we have a low patient load and we're pre-call, I try to get my students out of there as early in the day as possible. If they have a quiz or a big presentation coming up, I also try to get them outta there early, because it's unlikely that they'll be focused on patient care at that point anyways.

If I tell a medical student to leave, then I've already put a lot of thought into whether or not there is something for them to do prior to telling them to go home. If anything, I expect them to take their time away from the hospital to read up on their patients and be ready to present some good information to me the next morning when we're doing work rounds.

Bottom line, go home when your intern/resident tells you to. And if you feel guilty about it, then bide the gift of time by reading up on your patients or studying for your quizzes/shelf exams. You're being productive that way at the very least, and in essence, you're taking care of your present and future patients by actively learning about their diseases. That should be the number one priority of medical students, in my opinion.

 

[Richie Truxillo]

I told my med student to go home a little early tonight. We are looking out for your welfare when we do so. Because one day you're going to be in my shoes like I am tonight, taking overnight in house wards call at the VA, and you deserve some sleep in preparation for your intern year/

 

[roadrunnerrita]

think about it. If you were a resident (which isn't too far away) and you had nothing to do wouldn't you feel bad for your student who also had nothing to do, but wasn't being paid to be at the hospital?

I would.

 

[sestamibi]

All these people are giving you bad advice.

What you need to do is slap your resident really hard, stand tall, and bellow out, "NO YOU GO HOME!"

Dominate.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

All these people are giving you bad advice.

What you need to do is slap your resident really hard, stand tall, and bellow out, "NO YOU GO HOME!"

Dominate.

You better knock me out b/c if you miss I'm going to put you in one of those WEC/MMA choke holds...

Or even worse, make you do rectals on every patient in the ED..gloveless!

 

[45408]

I take them at their word and leave. Usually, when I'm done with all my stuff, I'll ask the intern/resident if they need any help. If they do, they'll tell me, and I'll help them out - usually it's something that I find fairly interesting anyways - otherwise, it's a well-known question that leads to "No, you're good. You can go."

 

[PenguinHead]

My group a problem along the same lines. We all do our work, but when it's time to go home, we leave. Except one guy. He insists on staying late, rumored to have come in on a weekend etc etc. It really gets annoying. I'd write more about it but I gotta get back to clinic.

 

[crazylegs]

You better knock me out b/c if you miss I'm going to put you in one of those WEC/MMA choke holds...

Or even worse, make you do rectals on every patient in the ED..gloveless!

Funny you mentioned that. I just came off of a ward month, and we had a running joke that consisted of my resident and I threatening our male medical students with "penis checks q2" on all of the hygiene-challenged patients if they made us mad. We never made anyone actually do it, but the thought alone definitely made us laugh.

 

[sestamibi]

You better knock me out b/c if you miss I'm going to put you in one of those WEC/MMA choke holds...

Or even worse, make you do rectals on every patient in the ED..gloveless!

I forgot to add this.

Being a small guy with a car in the inner city, it always helps to carry one of these.

1) It protects your car from the amateur car thieves at the very least.

2) You can use it against the bigger residents. Slapping them will only land you in a world of pain. Swinging the club will assert your dominance. Might I add at this point that you have to take my advice at face value. I am not responsible for any repercussions or legal action that may be brought against you.

And definitely bring your own nitrile gloves should your resident/security get you in a chokehold and bring you down the ED for rectals.

 

[DrWBD]

If there was nothing going on, I would try to send my students home early.

My view was that a well-rested medical student was a lot more useful to the team than a tired one.

 

[JaSam]

If there was nothing going on, I would try to send my students home early.

My view was that a well-rested medical student was a lot more useful to the team than a tired one.

absolutely absolutely agree. If I were a resident I'd send my students home as early as possible and tell them to sleep, enjoy, read some. But I think theres a cut off to that though. IF I ever get the sense however that my students are doing reading at home or come in unprepared on rounds, etc. then I'd tell them to sit their butt down during the day and just read.

also having 3rd years on call and putting sub Is on overnight call is just absurd and completely unneccessary. All it does is traing some endurance. I mean how many MSIIIs actually are that valuable on call to a resident? Not many. 3rd years are a hindrance rather than a help. And 4th years should be just given a patient or 2 max and then sent home on call nights. What's the point of keeping them overnight? They're students for crying out loud. IS it really that important to show them how sleeping in a hospital bed feels like?

 

[Law2Doc]

My view was that a well-rested medical student was a lot more useful to the team than a tired one.

Doesn't really matter. Med students provide so little value to the team that a sleepy one is adequate.

 

[haveaniceday]

absolutely absolutely agree. If I were a resident I'd send my students home as early as possible and tell them to sleep, enjoy, read some. But I think theres a cut off to that though. IF I ever get the sense however that my students are doing reading at home or come in unprepared on rounds, etc. then I'd tell them to sit their butt down during the day and just read.

also having 3rd years on call and putting sub Is on overnight call is just absurd and completely unneccessary. All it does is traing some endurance. I mean how many MSIIIs actually are that valuable on call to a resident? Not many. 3rd years are a hindrance rather than a help. And 4th years should be just given a patient or 2 max and then sent home on call nights. What's the point of keeping them overnight? They're students for crying out loud. IS it really that important to show them how sleeping in a hospital bed feels like?

I agree with you, except regarding the MS4s, particularly sub-i's. On my sub-I was treated exactly as an intern and picked up equivalent patients. When admitting we traded off 1 to 1 as the admits rolled in and I always carried an equivalent number of patients. This is the point of the sub-i in my book.

For MS3's, I do agree. as an MS3, I could go home "on call" and read about my patients and prep for rounds. Whereas in the hospital, on O/N call rotations, I found myself wasting a lot of time with the on-call resident watching them see patients at 3:00 a.m. and not studying specifics to look good at a.m. rounds.

Oh yeah, go home as soon as they tell you to. I never stayed when told to leave and did quite well as an MS3.

 

[elwademd]

for all the med students who think residents are mean, this is one of the few times that the resident can try to be nice.

trust us, we've been there. there are plenty of calls as a med student where you're there, but you really don't need to be.

you'll have a future full of calls ahead of you, and there will be times you'll be wishing that you could just get up and leave.

so, as other posters have pointed out, go read, sleep, whack off, have sex, work out... whatever it is that makes you happy. there will likely not be another time in your life in medicine that you will be able to do that.

The good news is that most residents tell you to go home because they really want you to go home.

The bad news is that they're probably telling you to go home because they're not really interested in teaching you anything, you aren't much help, and they would prefer not to have you getting in their way.

lol. so true!

 

[45408]

Doesn't really matter. Med students provide so little value to the team that a sleepy one is adequate.

For what we pay in tuition, we should be allowed to get enough sleep to function. That's why I know that the schools with 3am pre-rounding on surgery don't actually have student education/learning as their primary goal.

 

[UCLAstudent]

I agree with the other posters. When told to go home as an MS3, I usually asked, "Is there anything else I can help with?" The answer was "no" 99% of the time. Don't feel bad for leaving.

 

[Richie Truxillo]

for all the med students who think residents are mean, this is one of the few times that the resident can try to be nice.

trust us, we've been there. there are plenty of calls as a med student where you're there, but you really don't need to be.

you'll have a future full of calls ahead of you, and there will be times you'll be wishing that you could just get up and leave.

so, as other posters have pointed out, go read, sleep, whack off, have sex, work out... whatever it is that makes you happy. there will likely not be another time in your life in medicine that you will be able to do that.

Complete truth!

 

[Anka]

I don't think there's a hard and fast rule about it. In one of the posts above, it appears the clerkship required the students to take overnight call, but the resident was telling the student to go home. In that case, you kind of have to stay, and let the resident know what the problem is. This is because the resident doesn't have the final word in the requirements for the clerkship, your course director does.

It's a different situation if your resident is telling you to go home and you don't have a specific course requirement to be there. Again, there's some variation. If your resident tells you to go home at 2 p.m. when the team stays until 8 p.m., I'd stick around saying something like "Well, I'll go to the library and read for a couple of hours -- maybe things will pick up by that point." If it's 6 p.m. and the intern is the only one left, running around trying to get orders in as fast as possible after afternoon rounds, that's different -- just go home.

Today I told a med student she could go home (I'm the intern, everyone senior had gone for the day because the cases were done) at 2 p.m. She went. My job is honestly easier if she leaves; it's still hard for me to keep her involved without a lot of thought. However, if she had stayed, I would have taught her stuff. A few hours later some procedures came up that she could have done; a consult came in she could have seen first (then gone to the OR with), and so on.

Is this in any way going to hurt her evaluation? No, she's an excellent student. But it means she missed out on some good opportunities for clinical learning -- and that's kind of what the clinical years are all about. On the other hand, she's an adult and on some level you have to trust her to figure out what she needs most. If she's worried about basic fund of knowledge stuff, sitting home reading is probably better. If she feels comfortable with that, sticking around the hospital and participating in patient care is probably better. But if she just went home and watched TV... it's her loss (and, as I already pointed out... easier for me not to have to teach, to bang out a consult in the amount of time it takes her to present, me to make a couple of teaching points, read and addend her note, etc.).

Anka

 

[DrWBD]

Doesn't really matter. Med students provide so little value to the team that a sleepy one is adequate.

You might be thinking differently when you're an intern.
An eager student who wants to look up articles related to patients on the service, or do some minor scut like blood draws and phone calls is invaluable to a team, especially when you're the intern and it would be you doing those things otherwise.

 

[cottage]

If the resident says go home, go! Quickly, before he can change his mind! The longer you stay, the longer you stay.

 

[Law2Doc]

You might be thinking differently when you're an intern.
An eager student who wants to look up articles related to patients on the service, or do some minor scut like blood draws and phone calls is invaluable to a team, especially when you're the intern and it would be you doing those things otherwise.

The interns that are able to delegate like this, sure. Those that are micromanagers or paranoid of getting screwed over by a med student missing something, not so much. And this latter group seems to be the majority. Many times med students get frustrated after having come in early to get all the vitals and lab values only to find that the resident got them him/herself too, "just to be safe". You will never be so expendable in your life.

 

[Jimmi]

yeah, I'm gettin ready to spectate, can't wait. If I get to leave early, I guess it's ok.
But, definitely never gonna ask to do so.

 

[fuzzyerin]

The interns that are able to delegate like this, sure. Those that are micromanagers or paranoid of getting screwed over by a med student missing something, not so much. And this latter group seems to be the majority. Many times med students get frustrated after having come in early to get all the vitals and lab values only to find that the resident got them him/herself too, "just to be safe". You will never be so expendable in your life.

Or, as the resident, you assign medical students these tasks and then later get an earful from the clerkship director that you are "scutting" the medical students. I'm a chief resident now and I no longer know what "scut" is, because it seems that my tasks that I assign medical students are always considered scut in some way. "Go take out staples, go walk Ms. So-and-so who's POD#1, go check on all the patients and see if they peed after their foleys came out, go to the floor and take the history on this patient that we've just been consulted on" - I've had students complain about each of these things when they are all things that I would have had to do if I were the intern on service. I really feel like someone who talks about walking uphill both ways to school "back in the day" because I did my med student years at a city hospital in NYC where if I didn't do it as the med student, it didn't get done...that included drawing blood, bringing blood to the lab, filling out forms, bringing forms to the social work office, bringing the patient to radiology for their study, etc.

And I agree with Tired. I'm sending you home because I will finish much earlier, you aren't much help, and I don't want to teach you anything else. That being said, I usually give the med student 1-2 formal lectures and many informal teaching points during the week they are on my service...but there are days where after doing 4 major debulkings in the OR that I can't get words straight in my head and I need to finish things without students following me around so I can go home at a reasonable hour because I have to get there earlier than they do in the morning.

 

[Acherona]

The interns that are able to delegate like this, sure. Those that are micromanagers or paranoid of getting screwed over by a med student missing something, not so much. And this latter group seems to be the majority. Many times med students get frustrated after having come in early to get all the vitals and lab values only to find that the resident got them him/herself too, "just to be safe". You will never be so expendable in your life.

It doesn't take long to win the trust of your resident/intern. They desperately want help, but they also don't want to get screwed over by a crappy student. If you show you can do things correctly consistently, which only takes 3 or 4 tasks, it won't take long before they stop double checking everything. And I can't believe interns are saying medical students are not helpful. I think if your intern is sending you home that early it is a bad sign that you don't know how to make yourself useful. Any scutwork an intern is doing a student can do to, even if it takes the student longer than it would the intern.

 

[Anka]

Don't get me wrong, I could get med students to help me out, but I'm not allowed to ask them to do "scut". And scut is anything the student in question interprets as scut. So, if I ask the med student to write down lab values so we can replete electrolytes, or update the meds section of our list, or preround on a few patients, I can get in trouble for it. So why would I? Instead, I'm only supposed to involve them in "educational" activities -- like seeing a new consult. Which is great. If they say that's my job, then I'll do it. But it takes more time to let the student see the consult, have the student present to me, go see the consult myself, discuss the patient again with the student so we can go over any differences in our exam, etc. than it does to just bang it out myself.

I remember being a student... it was only a few months ago. One of the things I loved about my surgery clerkship was that I was definately part of the team -- getting numbers, checking labs, prerounding, taking out staples, whatever. I learned by doing that stuff, too. My most miserable experiences were the ones in which I was marginalized as a member of the team. I feel bad that I can't pass on to students what I liked so much... but I can't. If a student decides I've "scutted them out", I'll get in trouble for it.

Anka

 

[Acherona]

Don't get me wrong, I could get med students to help me out, but I'm not allowed to ask them to do "scut". And scut is anything the student in question interprets as scut. So, if I ask the med student to write down lab values so we can replete electrolytes, or update the meds section of our list, or preround on a few patients, I can get in trouble for it. So why would I? Instead, I'm only supposed to involve them in "educational" activities -- like seeing a new consult. Which is great. If they say that's my job, then I'll do it. But it takes more time to let the student see the consult, have the student present to me, go see the consult myself, discuss the patient again with the student so we can go over any differences in our exam, etc. than it does to just bang it out myself.

I remember being a student... it was only a few months ago. One of the things I loved about my surgery clerkship was that I was definately part of the team -- getting numbers, checking labs, prerounding, taking out staples, whatever. I learned by doing that stuff, too. My most miserable experiences were the ones in which I was marginalized as a member of the team. I feel bad that I can't pass on to students what I liked so much... but I can't. If a student decides I've "scutted them out", I'll get in trouble for it.

Anka

It *is* scut to ask the student to "write down the electrolytes". What is not scut is to ask them to write down the electrolytes so that *the student* can replete them. Let them try to figure it out and write down some orders, even if you end up ignoring it. Same for med lists. They should update the list but also check why each med is prescribed to catch any errors. If you make it seem like an important job, which it is, they won't think it is scut.

 

[Tired]

I remember being a student... it was only a few months ago. One of the things I loved about my surgery clerkship was that I was definately part of the team -- getting numbers, checking labs, prerounding, taking out staples, whatever. I learned by doing that stuff, too. My most miserable experiences were the ones in which I was marginalized as a member of the team. I feel bad that I can't pass on to students what I liked so much... but I can't. If a student decides I've "scutted them out", I'll get in trouble for it.

Easy enough to just tell them to get lost. Send them off to hang out with the resident, tell them to "go read". You may get in trouble for scutting them out, but nobody ever gets in trouble for ignoring them.

 

[JustPlainBill]

You may start out with this opinion, but pretty soon in your year you will come across a few residents who feel that the med students should show up an hour or two before the team gets there and finish up some scut an hour after the team leaves every call day, or an attending who shows up in the post-call-morning well rested and wants to round for six hours and your viewpoint might change. Your goal is to learn, but no reason to be a martyr about it. If someone tells you to go, after mild protestations of "are you sure there's nothing else you need help on", you go. Because more than a few times the reverse is going to be true and folks are going to be keeping you around for way too many hours of non-learning opportunities.

I hear you and I guess the point I was trying to make to the OP was missed. I've been told I can be real blunt and am trying to work on subtlety....sometimes I guess I'm too subtle...

The point I was trying to make was that, as a student, don't ever complain out loud in front of interns, residents or attendings about how the hours suck. Especially if you've got your whiny voice on.....ever....it leaves a lasting impression and one that can be hard to overcome.....The response I received from my resident when I commented to him later on tells me he heard them and made at least a mental note about it.....

The advice I've been given is to smile a lot, act enthused, keep a game face of positive mental attitude and save the griping for your fellow students in a bar, far, far away from work.....and even then.....

 

[LADoc84]

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[LADoc84]

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[JaSam]

what do you do when your resident tells you to go home?


Hmmmm.... Good question. But consider this.

what do you do if your resident tells you to pick up one more patient? you do it.

What do you do if your resident tells you to break for lunch? you do it.

What do you do if your resident tells you to come in 5 mins earlier each day? you do it.

Im in no way trying to mock you, I do think its a valid inquiry, but I'll offer a simple and generally correct answer: Just do it. Do what your resident tells you. Make him or her happy and they'll make you happy. Don't do the opposite of what they ask or question them unless you have a good reason as some might take that as an insult.

IF i were a resident and I told my MS3 to get outta here and they still stick around. There better be a damn good reason for that or they better do an oscar winning job of looking like they're really interested. Otherwise I'm perceiving that as fake and sucking up. And personally, I'd grade down on suck up students. I can't stand how they teach us to ask "Is there anything else I can do to help" at the end of the day when we want to get the hell outta there. IF I here that coming from any of my MS3s when I know they want to leave, I'm gonna give them a gorilla's butt load of work just so they learn not to ask that annoying question to feign interest and sincerity.

 

[Richie Truxillo]

Whee I am post call and getting ready to leave...
I see this thread still going.

Seriously med students...if I tell ya to go home, I mean it, go home...like run to the parking lot smiling!

You're going to be in my shoes soon enough so enjoy your life and read a smidgen.

 

[ArcherM2]

It doesn't take long to win the trust of your resident/intern. They desperately want help, but they also don't want to get screwed over by a crappy student. If you show you can do things correctly consistently, which only takes 3 or 4 tasks, it won't take long before they stop double checking everything. And I can't believe interns are saying medical students are not helpful. I think if your intern is sending you home that early it is a bad sign that you don't know how to make yourself useful. Any scutwork an intern is doing a student can do to, even if it takes the student longer than it would the intern.

As I was reading all of these posts, this is the one post that resonates exactly what I was thinking. I think warning signs should be blaring if you are being sent home. A good student can make an intern's call a lot easier if the student is trusted. Wound checks, void checks, post-op checks are not scut work and if the intern/resident can trust the student to do these things then the student is obviously valuable.

I was on a rotation where other students would be sent home early or made to spend the night in the hospital without being called for anything (worse in my opinion than being sent home), whereas when I was taking call I would be up pretty much the whole night because I would be doing the aforementioned "scut" until late with the intern and be up for any consult/procedure that needed to be done because I made it very clear that I was competent and interested in being involved.

If you're being sent home while other students are being kept on their call nights I would do a self-evaluation or talk to your intern to see how you can improve...

 

[187502]

I think you did the right thing by insisting, but if your resident was firm about it, it's probably in your best interest to just listen and leave. I don't know about where you are by resident have major input on grade for my school and most don't seem to take to kindly to not being listened to or being questioned more than once about something.

 

[MattD]

IF i were a resident and I told my MS3 to get outta here and they still stick around. There better be a damn good reason for that or they better do an oscar winning job of looking like they're really interested. Otherwise I'm perceiving that as fake and sucking up. And personally, I'd grade down on suck up students. I can't stand how they teach us to ask "Is there anything else I can do to help" at the end of the day when we want to get the hell outta there. IF I here that coming from any of my MS3s when I know they want to leave, I'm gonna give them a gorilla's butt load of work just so they learn not to ask that annoying question to feign interest and sincerity.

I tell you what. You feel free to hold MS3s to that standard, IF and ONLY IF, as an intern/resident you manage to have the presence of mind to think to yourself every day, "Hey, there's nothing going on, let me go personally find the med students and tell them to go home!" Because you know very well what happens if the students don't go ask the resident "Is there anything else I can do to help?" They completely zone in on what they're doing, and if there's nothing they need the student to do, they ignore them. So the student stands there with his thumb up his ass for hours with nothing to do. So I think that that question is a perfectly acceptable, polite way to prod the resident to either give you some work to do or dismiss you.

And by the way, "Is there anything else I can do to help" is not always a suck up way of getting the hell out of there. Sometimes it's because you're bored and would like something to do. Other times it's because you're very interested and want to help. All enthusiasm is not necessarily fake.